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The sales tax in Lauderdale County is more than enough, if he can’t run the schools on what money he has then we should find someone who can. Perhaps a few bake sales, track meets, and other fundraisers are in order but adding to the local sales tax is a foolish thing to do.

 

I wonder how long before we will hear the old clichÉ of them needing to raise the PERCENTAGE for sales tax because their expenses go up every year? We hear that every time there is a tax increase and I can't believe that we have so many idiots out there who fall for that line, all costs go up every year which means that no matter what the sales tax percentage is, the amount collected goes up without raising the percentage.

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Please tell me how 1 cent is going to hurt anyone.  Yes, I agree that Lauderdale County Schools probably have not done the best job of managing their money, but what is 1 cent going to hurt you when it comes to education of our youth?  The politicians in Montgomery have turned their backs on educators and it seems that everyone else wants to do the same.

Originally Posted by JudgeMental:

Times are tough and everyone has to saccrifice. 

That is a sickening attitude shared by the citizens all the way up to the governor of Alabama.  Yes, times are tough,  These are times when we need to be circling up the wagons to protect our kids.  80% of the budget of Lauderdale school goes to teacher salaries.  Valentine and his entire administration could be eliminated completely and that would ahve almost no effect on cutting back expenses.  But then, who's going to manage the school, feed the kids, respond to emergencies and so forth?

 

So the only place that can be cut and have a real reduction in expenses are teachers.  Class sizes is strongest indicator of educational performance.  So now you guys are essentially insisting that we cut teachers instead of asking for temporary help.  What a backwoods, country, redneck way of thinking.  

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by JudgeMental:

Times are tough and everyone has to saccrifice. 

That is a sickening attitude shared by the citizens all the way up to the governor of Alabama.  Yes, times are tough,  These are times when we need to be circling up the wagons to protect our kids.  80% of the budget of Lauderdale school goes to teacher salaries.  Valentine and his entire administration could be eliminated completely and that would ahve almost no effect on cutting back expenses.  But then, who's going to manage the school, feed the kids, respond to emergencies and so forth?

 

So the only place that can be cut and have a real reduction in expenses are teachers.  Class sizes is strongest indicator of educational performance.  So now you guys are essentially insisting that we cut teachers instead of asking for temporary help.  What a backwoods, country, redneck way of thinking.  

I agree. However, I take a different approach. Why don't we look more at raising property taxes rather than sales taxes. As long as we fund education based on sales taxes, it is alway going to be a problem. I know there are those that will be opposed, but property taxes are a steady source of funding. Also, Alabama is the second lowest in the country for property taxes, with Louisana being #1. http://articles.moneycentral.m...your-state-rank.aspx This issue has come up in the past with the largest opposition being big timber companies that own thousand of acres in Alabama. I wonder why they would be opposed?

some good thoughts here. the challenge with only 1% is we have heard that for a long time, its only a nickle or only this or that. Any good business will tell you to make money you have to manage your pennies since most profit ranges are under 10%. Now I agree with eduacation needing money however there is plenty of pennies wasted in our govt to have plenty for need items like education. for an example just look at Florence buying the CC then selling to UNA for a loss. It is time Govt quits acting like a kid in a candy store with our tax money. The reason they are hitting education is they know the tax payers will give in fo their kids future. Just like the Fed Govt is talking about Medicare/SS. Sorry I am not falling for the same old tactics and Pray the voter is catching on to their ploys (this is both DEM and REP)

God Bless America

Originally Posted by Jelb87:

BFred suggested a bake sale to save the system.  Give me a break! 

 

You should go back and actually read what was written, I said have some fundraisers, which help a lot. I guess for those who are too dumb to get it that I have to tell you that the word "bake sale" was used in jest and that it just plainly meant to make more cuts, work more efficiently, and work harder to raise money instead of trying to take the easy route which is to raise taxes. Fundraisers might not cover everything but they do help. I know he is familiar with the old draw down fundraisers because they were done at Rogers when he was principal there and they alone raise a lot of money. More important than just saying fundraisers it was to suggest that they try everything they can and cut all expenses that can be cut and to keep doing it till they get it right. Schools are in proration because tax revenue is down, tax revenue is down because revenue is down for the people and businesses that pay taxes. A 1% sales tax increase is a huge deal that will hurt businesses and the poorest consumers, raising property tax is unacceptable too. There are still plenty of things that can be done to make the schools more efficient and as for fundraisers, if the community knows the money is being handled well then the community will get behind some fundraisers and buy tickets & show up for school sports events which for some schools are a cash cow.

One idea of a cutback is to lengthen the school day and have just have school 4 days a week, try introducing legislation or finding a loophole to allow things like that instead of trying to pass another tax. This alone cuts a lot of overhead expenses, gives students an extra weekend day, fewer miles on the busses, makes it easier for parents who work because they can drop their kids off before work time and pick them up after work instead which would mean fewer students would need the busses and fewer latchkey kids. That is just one idea which would save a significant amount of money, I am sure there are a lot of other things that can be done too.

 I guess most people still think that a couple hundred million a year from a lotto is still a bad idea?

Wow.  I guess I shouldn't be shocked at the comments and attitudes here, but I am.  I guess most posters are in education and therefore TOTALLY unaware of what is occuring in the real economy.  So I'll try to help.  In the last few years, things have gotten kind of ugly for people employed in the private sector (where all of the money that is given/paid to you comes from).  For those of us lucky enough to still have a job, almost all of us have experienced cuts in pay and benefits.  As Alabama is a 'right-to-work' state,  we either accept those cuts or move along elsewhere for employment.  We are also unfamiliar with 'tenure' and the like.

 

If what another poster stated is true, that 80% of Lauderdale County's education budget was salaries....I think I know where we could save some money.  In reality, teachers say 'heck' no to any cuts in pay or benefits and simply eliminate positions.....OR WANT TAXES RAISED.  I'm sick of people staring at my wallet and/or trying to guilt me into forking over more of my ever harder earned money so that they don't have to face reality. 

 

There are great ideas here, like 4 days a week school.  And IF 80% of the budget is for salaries....according to Mr. Valentine's budget numbers, a 10% pay cut would save about 5.2 million per year eliminating the need to TAKE more money from the private sector.  Since your revenue comes from the real economy, you should have to learn to get along like the rest of us.  Oh, and I'm well aware of  the "But ....it's for the children!!" mantra.  So there's my rant...and I'm plenty mad at you people for making me sound like a republican which I'm not.  I think ALL politicians best quit TAKING our money.  Make do with what you get!

Originally Posted by blwingsmoke2:
Why don't we look more at raising property taxes rather than sales taxes. 

because that will take a constitutional amendment from Montgomery and the current political climate would never agree long enough to pass such a measure.

the only thing we have control over locally is sales taxes.  i would be in favor of this as long as it was stipulated that it would expire in 2 years. 

Originally Posted by TheOutsider:

There are great ideas here, like 4 days a week school.  And IF 80% of the budget is for salaries....according to Mr. Valentine's budget numbers, a 10% pay cut would save about 5.2 million per year eliminating the need to TAKE more money from the private sector. 

not a bad idea.  unfortunately, that wont' happen either.  like the other ideas, such a move would ahve to come from montgomery and that will not happen.  the teacher union has too much political power despite the castrations they are suffering at the moment.  the only choice is to start laying off teachers in a system that is already cut to the bone.

 

bfred's ideas of fundriaser is just silly. millions of dollars need to be raised.  florence just has a large auction fundraiser where everybody that was somebody attended and only raised 50k.  florence utilities has a program where you can add one or more dollars to your utility bill that goes directly to education.  of 40,000 customers, only 300 have participated.  bfred, decent ideas to raise money for classroom supplies but the problem is much bigger than your head can imagine.

Right you are Unobtain.....the teachers union would rather see layoffs than cuts.  Then they look at the rest of us who can't tolerate any more taxes on us and sneer 'how can you do this to the children?'

 

The people/taxpayers just need to be clear in understanding who it is who should feel guilty.  All those pining for tax increases will get them soon enough....trust me.

Noone really wants to face the truth....we really need a property tax increase so there would be stability in our tax structure....progressive taxes are unfair, unstable, and give no one the predictability needed to fund the upcoming year.  However, property taxes will never be increased because there remains a strong lobby group, headed by Alfa, focusing on low-cost loans for farmers....by the way, walk a mile in a teacher's shoes before you generalize about salaries...etc....A proven fact, the larger the class size, the more difficulty, the more discipline problems....where should our priorities be?

 

Last edited by skreechowl
Originally Posted by Unobtanium

not a bad idea.  unfortunately, that wont' happen either.  like the other ideas, such a move would ahve to come from montgomery and that will not happen.  the teacher union has too much political power despite the castrations they are suffering at the moment.  the only choice is to start laying off teachers in a system that is already cut to the bone.

 

bfred's ideas of fundriaser is just silly. millions of dollars need to be raised.  florence just has a large auction fundraiser where everybody that was somebody attended and only raised 50k.  florence utilities has a program where you can add one or more dollars to your utility bill that goes directly to education.  of 40,000 customers, only 300 have participated.  bfred, decent ideas to raise money for classroom supplies but the problem is much bigger than your head can imagine.

I guess you did not comprehend what I wrote either, although having a multitude of fundraisers and events to raise money is not a cure all it seems that in your mind they are not even worthwhile to even aid the problem when it is not uncommon for a small school group such a band to raise 25 to 30K for a band trip or for a school to have the draw down fundraisers that can easily net 3 or 4 thousand with minimal effort. I did not say it was a cure all but I am saying that looking for fundraising ideas along with better promoting and exploiting other streams of revenue such as sporting events can get the schools through the tough times if our government and school administrators are willing to allow the schools to be run in something that just closely resembles an efficient manner, there are also additional government entities that do not need all of the money they get and their budgets should be trimmed to help out with the schools. I do not agree with cutting teachers pay but we could use to get rid of a few not to mention disposing of that tenure thing. The schools could be run well on a lot less money that what they have been receiving, it’s a little thing known as working smarter AND harder. That lotto idea should be floated around again too.

You say that Montgomery will not go along with making changes to the school system? Well, we can just tell them that we will not go along with tax increases and tell them that they they don;t have a choice. It’s not as complex as you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by BFred07:
I guess you did not comprehend what I wrote either, although having a multitude of fundraisers and events to raise money is not a cure all it seems that in your mind they are not even worthwhile to even aid the problem 

 

no, you are having the comprehension problem.  your problem is ignorance of the size of the numbers we are dealing with.  

 

here's a breakdown: 

The Lauderdale  2011 proposed budget totals $80,000,000 n estimated expenditures, including $54,000,000 in expected state revenue, $5,000,000 in federal revenue, $4,000,000 in local revenue, $6,000,000 in local schools funds, $3,000,000 in sales tax revenue,  bfred, te "six zeros" represent something called "millions." 

 

The $80 million budget reflects 73% state appropriation funds, 15% local funds, and 12% federal funds with 85% of the budget dedicated to salaries and benefits.  source

 

now, bfred, this system has lost about 7 million bucks in total.  please tell me what kind of "bake sale" you plan to conduct that will raise 7 million (7 with SX zeros) dollars?

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by BFred07:
I guess you did not comprehend what I wrote either, although having a multitude of fundraisers and events to raise money is not a cure all it seems that in your mind they are not even worthwhile to even aid the problem 

 

no, you are having the comprehension problem.  your problem is ignorance of the size of the numbers we are dealing with.  

 

here's a breakdown: 

The Lauderdale  2011 proposed budget totals $80,000,000 n estimated expenditures, including $54,000,000 in expected state revenue, $5,000,000 in federal revenue, $4,000,000 in local revenue, $6,000,000 in local schools funds, $3,000,000 in sales tax revenue,  bfred, te "six zeros" represent something called "millions." 

 

The $80 million budget reflects 73% state appropriation funds, 15% local funds, and 12% federal funds with 85% of the budget dedicated to salaries and benefits.  source

 

now, bfred, this system has lost about 7 million bucks in total.  please tell me what kind of "bake sale" you plan to conduct that will raise 7 million (7 with SX zeros) dollars?

 

 

I am well aware of the numbers, not to be redundant because I have said the same thing in the other two posts but they are going to have to learn to be more efficient and frugal, the school system could be run well with a lot less money than has been used in the past. If they want to keep wasting just as much money then they better charge a mint for those cakewalk tickets otherwise they better learn to operate within their means. Since you do not seem to comprehend that and you keep talking about having bake sales then let me give you a little lesson on what some of these words mean:

 

EFFICIENT: productive of desired effects; especially : productive without waste <an efficient worker>

 

FRUGAL: characterized by or reflecting economy in the use of resources

 

The addition of a one cent more to the sales tax would have a negative effect on the community.

 

As far as waste and inefficiency goes, UNO claims that the budget for this school year is 80 million? Is that correct? Anyway, according to the LCS website there are 8870 students enrolled which comes out to a budget of $9019.17 per student.

Now let's look at how some of the local private schools compare:

Riverhill Tuition and Fees- $5625.00 for 1st child, $5325.00 for each additional child in the same family.

Covenant Christian School- Can be up to $4660.00 but most are substantially less.

Keep in mind that there are also children at both of the above schools who receive financial aid.

 

 

Sounds like to me that the public schools are spending more money and are supplying an inferior product, they don’t need all that money. I say they should be on a budget of 4K per kid and if they want more money for extras they need to work at raising it.

 

 

 

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