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In a recent forum topic "Sincere Question", our Friend Bill Gray stated that because he is saved, if he dies committing a sin, and does not repent, he goes immediately to Heaven because God does not see his sins.
I am still waiting for him to reply to this, as it quite clearly states the opposite in Scripture.
Bill, would you please explain how someone could enter heaven, having died in the state of adultery?
(and someone else said step it up a notch)- what about homosexual adultery? Still in Heaven?
Bill, you have a few people who think you are an authority on the bible, so please clarify your position on this topic.
This is the opinion on this topic you have stated:


"So, to your question -- if a Christian believer dies while committing a sin; is he/she still saved? Yes. For when we are saved, we immediately have two things: (1) we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us; sealing us for redemption, and (2) we have the imputed, attributed, righteousness of Jesus Christ covering us. He is our Righteousness Umbrella -- and God will never see our sins."

So Bill. Really? Where will adulters go, even if they have been saved? Scripture tells us they won't be in Heaven. So where does that leave them??
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quote:
and God will never see our sins."


THIS is the root of what has me so distressed. BG claims to be a preacher/teacher/expert-on-all, but he is FALSELY leading faithful astray.
(Those who, sadly, believe what he spews).
I don't have any personal ill will toward Mr. Gray, but he is leading people toward lives of unaccountability to sin, and THAT is not Christian.
Never in my life have I heard the claim that God will not see our sins. What I DO know is that He knows every hair on our heads.
Hi VP,

Don't know if they sing it in your church; but, in most churches there is a beautiful song which says:

In His time, in His time
He makes all things beautiful in His time
Lord, please show me everyday
As You're teaching me Your way
And I'll do just what You say
In Your time.


This reminds me of the story of the man who was instructed by God to push a stone up the hill. The man, being a faithful believer, diligently set out each morning to push the stone. It was a large stone and his progress was very slow. Yet, day after day, the man rose early, went to the stone, and pushed.

This went on for years, day after day, the man followed God's instruction, pushing, pushing, pushing the large stone. Finally, one day the man stopped, looked at the stone, and realizing that he was not even half way up the hill -- he cried out to God, "Lord, why have You given me this impossible task? You told me to push the stone up the hill. I have done everything within my power -- and, yet, I am only half way. Why have You given me this impossible task? What have I accomplished?"

And, God answered, "Yes, I told you to push the stone up the hill. But, I never told you that you had to reach the top; only keep pushing. And, you have been faithful in doing this."

The man, exhausted, asked, "But, Lord, You gave me a task. And, what have I accomplished?"

God smiled and told him, "Have you noticed how much stronger you are, how your muscles have developed, how your back is much broader? You have been making yourself a stronger Christian. And, that was My goal."

So, VP, God is leading us, He is building us -- and we just have to be patient and realize that all things happen -- In His Time!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Last edited by Bill Gray
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
This reminds me of the story of the man who was instructed by God to push a stone up the hill.

And, God answered, "Yes, I told you to push the stone up the hill. But, I never told you that you had to reach the top; only keep pushing. And, you have been faithful in doing this."

That's just...just....Dumb!!! Where was he supposed to push it to if not to the top?

Hi Chick,

I am sorry you do not understand this little story; for it is a true sign the you are lacking spiritual discernment. I pray that you will find the answer to this simple illustration.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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in this story bill is trying to do two things:

1. he is trying to illustrate that the God he believes in will give us commands that He doesn't really care if we succeed in, as long as we keep on blindly following the order. the fact that the effort of moving that stone could cause severe damage to our body doesn't matter. the possibility of the stone rolling backwards and crushing us doesn't matter, and long as we keep on blindly and thoughtlessly trying to do God's will.

2. he's trying to open up a whole new area of discussion in this thread and hoping that we wont notice that he still hasn't answered the question.
Yes, nice story, but the question remains unanswered, Bill.
Diversion tactic noted, and rejected.

If one is "saved", like you, for example, and you commit adultery, why will you be in Heaven. The bible clearly states that adulterers shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Now, we are back on topic. How do you explain this.
quote:
Originally posted by bill Gray:
This reminds me of the story of the man who was instructed b[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:y God to push a stone up the hill.

And, God answered, "Yes, I told you to push the stone up the hill. But, I never told you that you had to reach the top; only keep pushing. And, you have been faithful in doing this."


quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
That's just...just....Dumb!!! Where was he supposed to push it to if not to the top?



quote:
Originally posted by bill Gray:
Hi Chick, I am sorry you do not understand this little story; for it is a true sign the you are lacking spiritual discernment. I pray that you will find the answer to this simple illustration.
Bill


Good grief, Billy. Do you not recognize sarcasm when you see it?
I'm no more lacking spiritual discernment than you are.
Now why don't you be a good little always saved Christian & answer vplee123's question? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi VP,
No, I have never put anyone on Ignore -- regardless of how contentious she might be. However, I also do not jump every time you squeak!
I have been pretty busy for a couple of days.
Bill


VP, did he just call you "contentious" again?
He may not have you on Ignore but he is definitely ignoring your questions.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
I’m curious as to what youse guys are going to do with an answer fro Bro. Bill if you get one.

Would someone chime in with a response?



Dunno until we get one. I coulda cared less but now I see VP has got him by the shorthairs. I'm curious as to just what TheBill is gonna eventually pull outta his ass to answer this one.
Ram, I am looking for his answer because he has made a very dangerous and (I believe) false statement.
I am looking for his recant, or at least explanation.

Someone that constantly posts as a self proclaimed authority on all things biblical should be held to some kind of accountability to his words, don't you think?
Veeplee

I know you are Catholic and your religion sees adultery as a mortal sin.
Unless you are toying with the idea; I suggest sticking with that belief; regardless of Bro. Bill’s interpretation. His take could be risky.

On the other hand : if in your mind that out there somewhere there is someone that just might do the job better; the atheist route might better serve one’s intent.
Last edited by rramlimnn
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
So in your mind rraml, it's either Catholicism or atheism. Interesting.

Nothing in-between?

Where do your beliefs lie?


B50,

I did not mean Catholic or atheism are the only two choices.

Both are religions but there are many other states of it in which a particular person may be described .

I would never recommend on my or Bro. Bills authority that she should change her view.

What are my beliefs you asked.

Observers of religion do not describe themselves. Describing themselves, it can be argued, is of no consequence. We are described by others.

I will say that I have been affiliated with the religious assemblage called Church of Christ for 68 years+.

The state of religion we are in today will be different tomorrow due to something we hear or a thought we may have.

When the answer to a religious question precludes anyone asking another question we can rest easy that it is all figured out.

Please say you understand this.

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