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OK, there are several atheists on this forum. I don't know who is black, white, or other.

Frankly, I don't care.

However, the churches have become focal points for the Black community in the South since forever. They have been the social and political precipitors of the Black community for decades.

I know for a fact that there are Black atheists out there. Some read this forum.

Are there any Black atheists out there who need to vent? Assuming you have not, of course. Are there any Black citizens who are frustrated because it's assumed you're religious and affiliated with a church? There are certainly white citizens with such burdens.

I'm asking.

From a Black perspective, do churches help or hinder racial equality? Do they crystallize certain perceived differences or do they work toward a common good?

No Monkey Business from those who are not Black! I know you jokers who frequent this forum!

Seriously, there is a body of thought out there that religiosity has been an anchor on the progress of racial indifference from the Black perspective. And from the White. Yet another reason to gauge humans for their innate worths.

If you are a Black atheist from the Shoals, could you come out as such? The question has been asked of atheists in general, and still stands.

I ask because the cause of reason is an entirely human cause, inclusive of all. Societal and sociological reasons should take a backseat to the greater good and human progress altogether. I could give you a list of Black atheists, but I will not insult anyone here in that fashion.

Regarding the Shoals, however, and it's special religiosity, I repeat my question: Are there any Black atheists out there who need to vent?

Here is the place.


nsns

Make time for great justice.  Expect us.

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Very interesting topic indeed.

I have only met one Black person here in the shoals that was atheist. I am sure there are many more. It was with a group of others and I didn't get a chance to really speak with him. I guess I had never really thought about if or what the differences might be for Blacks who are atheist here.

Suddenly I am very curious myself.Smiler
Hi Deep,

God knows no color; why should the color of one's skin matter to you? Are you maybe fishing? We have had black members posting before -- and ones who disagreed with me. But, the person's race did not enter into the discussion at all. Why should it for you?

Or, are you saying that it is an insult to black people because we recognize that many do come from a Christian environment and are Christian believers? Most people that I know, regardless of their skin color or race, who are Christians -- do not see the association as an insult. Why should you?

It seems to me that you are fishing, maybe calling for help -- to bolster your minority position in the South -- and in society.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

REGARDLESS OF COLOR OR RACE - CHRISTIANS ARE FAMILY!

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quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
OK, there are several atheists on this forum. I don't know who is black, white, or other.

Frankly, I don't care.

However, the churches have become focal points for the Black community in the South since forever. They have been the social and political precipitors of the Black community for decades.

I know for a fact that there are Black atheists out there. Some read this forum.

Are there any Black atheists out there who need to vent? Assuming you have not, of course. Are there any Black citizens who are frustrated because it's assumed you're religious and affiliated with a church? There are certainly white citizens with such burdens.

I'm asking.

From a Black perspective, do churches help or hinder racial equality? Do they crystallize certain perceived differences or do they work toward a common good?

No Monkey Business from those who are not Black! I know you jokers who frequent this forum!

Seriously, there is a body of thought out there that religiosity has been an anchor on the progress of racial indifference from the Black perspective. And from the White. Yet another reason to gauge humans for their innate worths.

If you are a Black atheist from the Shoals, could you come out as such? The question has been asked of atheists in general, and still stands.

I ask because the cause of reason is an entirely human cause, inclusive of all. Societal and sociological reasons should take a backseat to the greater good and human progress altogether. I could give you a list of Black atheists, but I will not insult anyone here in that fashion.

Regarding the Shoals, however, and it's special religiosity, I repeat my question: Are there any Black atheists out there who need to vent?

Here is the place.


nsns


I am not an atheist, but as a black man that spent 18 years in the Quad Cities area and still visits often, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1. Do churches help or hinder racial equality? It really depends on the person standing in the pulpit. I have been in congregations where the pastor was saying "the white man this and the white man that." The church I grew up in has had a ongoing fellowship with a predominately white church in Sheffield for some years now.

2. Do they crystallize certain perceived differences or do they work toward a common good? I believe that churches that do believe in God work for the common good. Some work for the good of the pocket/wallet.
Flotown,

I grew up in a very conservative religion. COC. I remember hearing it preached that blacks and whites should not marry. It was a sin.

Have you ever heard it taught that way?

I never understood how in one breath the preacher would say, we are all gods children and then say but if you marry outside your race he won't be pleased.

Remember the song Jesus Loves Me? As a child I felt I was getting mixed messages. "Red and yellow, black and white. We are precious in his sight" Then turn around and tell me that marring outside my race is sinful.

I am atheist now. So I haven't heard a sermon in a long while. I wonder if that kind of thing is still taught?
The fact that most of our forefathers chose to overlook is that nowhere in the Bible does it mention the soul having a color. Most of the people from Africa were sold, initially, by other "tribes" to slave traders, then, starting on the journey here, they were relegated to "animal" status to (I suspect) overcome the normal revulsion one would expect to have seeing other humans mistreated. (As the descendent of a slave-owner, It pains me to face that fact.) From my perspective, the difference in churches now (black/white)is really about cultures. I have visited churches where there was a large percentage of the congregation who was not Caucasian, but most everyone there dressed about the same and lived, probably, in the same general area.

Atheism tends to be a mindset, mostly, of the financially and/or physically comfortable. As long as there are human frailities, difficult living conditions, and hopelessness, there will be room for God in our lives. But then, with that being the "human condition", the Bible addresses all that, doesn't it?
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Flotown,

I grew up in a very conservative religion. COC. I remember hearing it preached that blacks and whites should not marry. It was a sin.

Have you ever heard it taught that way?

I never understood how in one breath the preacher would say, we are all gods children and then say but if you marry outside your race he won't be pleased.

Remember the song Jesus Loves Me? As a child I felt I was getting mixed messages. "Red and yellow, black and white. We are precious in his sight" Then turn around and tell me that marring outside my race is sinful.

I am atheist now. So I haven't heard a sermon in a long while. I wonder if that kind of thing is still taught?


I have heard of such nonsense but not necessarily in those words. Words like we should always stick together, we can only depend on ourselves, ect.

This is why I tell people regardless of what the preacher says you should read the Bible for yourself. Some people have blinders on and that is why some preachers have these mega churches in the middle of the projects, ghetto, slums and they drive up in Rolls Royce, Jags, ect on Sunday morning and tell the congregation how they are suppose to put the preacher on a pedestal when in fact it is the preacher that is suppose to be doing the giving.

It amazes me how many people stand and claim to be Christians and how Christian this country is but between the hours of 9:30am - 1:00pm on Sunday, it seems to be the most segregated time in this country.

I can truly see why some are tuned away.
quote:
It amazes me how many people stand and claim to be Christians and how Christian this country is but between the hours of 9:30am - 1:00pm on Sunday, it seems to be the most segregated time in this country.

I can truly see why some are tuned away.


Yes, I can too. I have noticed that the JW is one of the few that have a very mixed group in attendance.

NO Bill, I'm not, but I'm sure you will add this to the list.
Thanks for the reply Flotown.

It seems that even in today's times we still see a lot of segregation in the churches. Not sure why that is. Maybe it is just that families have been going to the same churches for many generations and it just carries over.

Do you know any atheist in your family? Would it be shocking and would they be looked down on to say they were atheist if someone in your family came forward.

I know it was upsetting to most of my family. They don't say much about it anymore, but when I first told my Mama she cried. I didn't enjoy that conversation at all, but I had to be true to myself and she eventually understood that.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:

This is why I tell people regardless of what the preacher says you should read the Bible for yourself. Some people have blinders on and that is why some preachers have these mega churches in the middle of the projects, ghetto, slums and they drive up in Rolls Royce, Jags, ect on Sunday morning and tell the congregation how they are suppose to put the preacher on a pedestal when in fact it is the preacher that is suppose to be doing the giving.



This kind of thing concerns me. It is not only in the ghettos and slums either. There are churches here in our area that I have heard ask for your tax returns when you join their congregation. The one I was told this about is HUGE! I like to call it Fort God. I know some of the people that attend and they are not well off by any means, but they have their tithes automatically withdrawn from their checking accounts by the church. If they have an increase in pay then the church takes more. The preacher lives in a very nice home and drives a fancy car. When I have tried to question them about it, they get very defensive of him and the way the church handles the money situation.

I hate to see people get scammed like that.
Jank,
That particular church has been mentioned many times before. The members always deny the stories.

I don't know of anyone who is a confirmed atheist (is that even a term?), but one brother does not celebrate Christmas, Easter, or any other holiday and doesn't go to any church.

He may be atheist, we have never discussed it.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Thanks for the reply Flotown.

It seems that even in today's times we still see a lot of segregation in the churches. Not sure why that is. Maybe it is just that families have been going to the same churches for many generations and it just carries over.

Do you know any atheist in your family? Would it be shocking and would they be looked down on to say they were atheist if someone in your family came forward.

I know it was upsetting to most of my family. They don't say much about it anymore, but when I first told my Mama she cried. I didn't enjoy that conversation at all, but I had to be true to myself and she eventually understood that.


I don't know of any family members that are atheist but there might be some. I understand that people often continue at the family church but I am referring to the lack of visitation of churches as a whole with other churches of different a race. This should be done and it should be on a regular basis.

If a family member of mine was to say they were an atheist I don't think they would get looked down upon. I have relatives that say they are Christian and never set foot in the church, lie cheat, steal, ect. I see no difference.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
It amazes me how many people stand and claim to be Christians and how Christian this country is but between the hours of 9:30am - 1:00pm on Sunday, it seems to be the most segregated time in this country.

I can truly see why some are tuned away.


Yes, I can too. I have noticed that the JW is one of the few that have a very mixed group in attendance.

NO Bill, I'm not, but I'm sure you will add this to the list.


Until I was stationed in Wisconsin and San Diego I was under the impression that all Jehovah Witnesses were black.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:

This is why I tell people regardless of what the preacher says you should read the Bible for yourself. Some people have blinders on and that is why some preachers have these mega churches in the middle of the projects, ghetto, slums and they drive up in Rolls Royce, Jags, ect on Sunday morning and tell the congregation how they are suppose to put the preacher on a pedestal when in fact it is the preacher that is suppose to be doing the giving.



This kind of thing concerns me. It is not only in the ghettos and slums either. There are churches here in our area that I have heard ask for your tax returns when you join their congregation. The one I was told this about is HUGE! I like to call it Fort God. I know some of the people that attend and they are not well off by any means, but they have their tithes automatically withdrawn from their checking accounts by the church. If they have an increase in pay then the church takes more. The preacher lives in a very nice home and drives a fancy car. When I have tried to question them about it, they get very defensive of him and the way the church handles the money situation.

I hate to see people get scammed like that.


Direct deposit, auto pay, pay pal, ect has nothing to do with God. 10% is all that is asked and the Bible clearly states it is up to you to do it. The 10% should be used for specific purposes. They are the poor, the needs of the church, and the needs (not the wants) of the pastor.
Why should it bother you that a person agrees to give their church a copy of their tax return and wants their tithe transferred through automatic withdrawal? These are grown men and women, right? It's their choice and their business what they do with their funds. They have a choice. IF (huge IF) this occurs, I am sure they have reasons for doing so. Maybe they appreciate accountability. Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their money.

JMHO
I will wager a guess though...based on growing up in a small town & seeing how the winds of gossip blow...lol...I bet it is the deacon body that gives a copy of their tax return and the gossip chain blew that up into the whole church doing it. I'll also bet that they offer automatic withdrawal for convenience purposes and the gossip chain blew that one up. I also bet that automatic withdrawal idea came from members of the congregation who prefer to pay everything that way, not the leadership. Gossip sucks.
quote:
Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their


all agreed. it just seem so blatant and is a shining example of the scam that religion perpetrates upon the gullible. my goodness, can you imagine what woudl ahppen if all churches gave money to deserving charities instead of building Fort God's like that abomination over on Avalon ave? what if all those millions went to the ronald mcdonald house instead?

when you look at it like that, tithing seems grossly immoral. why not give 10% of your money to a deserving charity instead?
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their


all agreed. it just seem so blatant and is a shining example of the scam that religion perpetrates upon the gullible. my goodness, can you imagine what woudl ahppen if all churches gave money to deserving charities instead of building Fort God's like that abomination over on Avalon ave? what if all those millions went to the ronald mcdonald house instead?

when you look at it like that, tithing seems grossly immoral. why not give 10% of your money to a deserving charity instead?


The members have a right to say and decide where their tithes are spent. (charities)
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Why should it bother you that a person agrees to give their church a copy of their tax return and wants their tithe transferred through automatic withdrawal? These are grown men and women, right? It's their choice and their business what they do with their funds. They have a choice. IF (huge IF) this occurs, I am sure they have reasons for doing so. Maybe they appreciate accountability. Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their money.

JMHO


Because I hate to see people get scammed? I care about my fellow human beings?

These are your words in the Pro Life thread:
"If effects me directly in the same way abuse of another effects me. As you stated, it leaves me with an ethical decision. Also as you stated, I can't 'unknow' and not be affected by this stuff once I am aware of it."

Sounds like you may be a member of a fort god somewhere. This is the kind of defensiveness I have seen in others that do.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
It's like those "tv evangelists" that get busted. Imagine the MILLIONS of dollars they bring in, and even if they gave half of it to charities they would still be rich. But no, they're so greedy they can't even do that.


The Bible clearly states the qualification for a pastor. The congregation is at fault for allowing those only after fame and fortune to continue as the leader of their church.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
It's like those "tv evangelists" that get busted. Imagine the MILLIONS of dollars they bring in, and even if they gave half of it to charities they would still be rich. But no, they're so greedy they can't even do that.


The Bible clearly states the qualification for a pastor. The congregation is at fault for allowing those only after fame and fortune to continue as the leader of their church.


flot,

where does the bible clesrly state qualifications for pastor?

Kvn
Kraven,

1 Timothy 3
Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons
1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

11 In the same way, the women[c] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
quote:
I must disagree that atheism is a mindset of the financially or physically comfortable. I am neither and have held my beliefs(or lack thereof) most of my life.

I agree. At the time I came to the realization I didn't believe anymore I was living at home. We had all we needed, but far from financial comfort. My father was very ill all my life, and we lost him when I was still in my teens. The first years of our marriage my husband and I struggled. We both worked hard, and today we're comfortable, but far from rich. I lost my mother to soon too. I've said it before, there was no certain "event" in my life that turned my thinking around. It came on gradually. My husband and I went to church, all those things. I talked to my mom about it, and did all the things she ask me to do, prayed about it, talked to preachers, anything to "prove" to myself it was true, but in the end I had to admit to myself I just didn't believe. And it felt WONDERFUL when I stopped pretending.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Why should it bother you that a person agrees to give their church a copy of their tax return and wants their tithe transferred through automatic withdrawal? These are grown men and women, right? It's their choice and their business what they do with their funds. They have a choice. IF (huge IF) this occurs, I am sure they have reasons for doing so. Maybe they appreciate accountability. Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their money.

JMHO


Because I hate to see people get scammed? I care about my fellow human beings?

These are your words in the Pro Life thread:
"If effects me directly in the same way abuse of another effects me. As you stated, it leaves me with an ethical decision. Also as you stated, I can't 'unknow' and not be affected by this stuff once I am aware of it."

Sounds like you may be a member of a fort god somewhere. This is the kind of defensiveness I have seen in others that do.


LOL. You could not be more wrong. My personal choice would never be extravagant spending on gaudy decor nor would I go to a church that makes that choice. I just don't make blanket statements based on hearsay nor do I expect other people to spend their money how I see fit.

You assume they don't have brains to think for themselves, which is insulting to say the least. I think they know exactly what they are doing.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Regardless, there is zero reason to feel sorry for them. They are adults deciding for themselves what they want to do with their


all agreed. it just seem so blatant and is a shining example of the scam that religion perpetrates upon the gullible. my goodness, can you imagine what woudl ahppen if all churches gave money to deserving charities instead of building Fort God's like that abomination over on Avalon ave? what if all those millions went to the ronald mcdonald house instead?

when you look at it like that, tithing seems grossly immoral. why not give 10% of your money to a deserving charity instead?


The members have a right to say and decide where their tithes are spent. (charities)


True. It's usually decided and voted upon by the congregation in a monthly business meeting. So, once again, they all decide to spend funds on chandeliers, give to the needy, fix the pipes, whatever.

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