Bring the Soldiers Home
This is alittle out dated but worth reading!
Dwight Moody
05-14-04
"Lay all your cards on the table," I once exhorted my hearers, seeking to enhance their sense of dedication to Jesus.


I was a student preacher at the time and my mentor later suggested I avoid sermonic images and illustrations drawn from questionable practices. Card-playing fell into that category of "questionable practices" as did dancing and drinking during my adolescent years.



He was right, I suppose, and I now relate that story to my own preaching students.



But the lyrics of a Kenny Rogers song keep running through my head as I think about the cacophony of questionable practices now occupying the time and attention of American soldiers on the far side of the world.



"You’ve got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run."



What works at the card table can also work on the battlefield.



It is time to fold our tents, pack our guns, and hand to somebody else the task of reforming Arab society in the deserts of Iraq.



What the president proclaimed last year is doubly true today: mission accomplished.



http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=4179
Original Post
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....




The Republicans should practice what they preach



1. Republicans were for cutting and running before they were against it.

Here are the those very words in a discussion about the Republican opposition to fighting Milosevic



The U.S. intervention in Bosnia, which many Republicans foolishly opposed, has worked out much better than they predicted. That progress, however, will be undermined if the United States cuts and runs in this latest instance of Milosevic's thuggery. Republicans can be proud that they led the drive to revitalize the NATO alliance by expanding it to three new states. But what will it mean to have expanded NATO last year, only to eviscerate it now?

http://www.ceip.org/people/kagstan14.htm



2.Here is a good PDF with a list of which Republican said what. Here is something put up to promote Cheney in 2000.

Here is an abstract of an NYT piece in 2000 http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F1081FF...%2fClinton%2c%20Bill



Dick Cheney, the Republican vice-presidential candidate, called today for a re-examination of the nation's role in peacekeeping missions around the world and said it was time to consider recalling American ground troops from Kosovo and Bosnia. ''I think it is important that we make sometimes difficult choices about when...

3.Bush was for a timetable before he was against it.
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/06/28/in-1999-bush-demanded-a-timetable/


Bush says,"I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."


4. Republicans promised us hearts and flowers in Iraq. Our work actually got hearts and flowers. And we didn't have 2500 dead and 20,000 wounded.


The allied occupation of Kosovo, where Clark was greeted as a hero with not only flowers, but also billboards and a road being renamed for him, was planned and executed by Clark and Shinseki. It provides an interesting contrast to Iraq, where Shinseki was shut out of the planning, and in fact disparaged for his realistic assessment of what it would take to win in Iraq.

5.Meet The Press episode where Tim Russert mentioned Cheney's prediction that we would be greeted as liberators. Notice that Cheney, with assistance from Tim Russert, talked about 9/11 in response.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/


6.The called Bosnia/Kosovo "Clinton's War." Why do Republicans only want to "stay the course" when it is Bush's War?
7. Bosnia and Kosovo in 2000 were way better than Iraq now. So who is it that really plays politics with wars? Not Democrats



Here's Michael Kinsley

if you're looking for revisionist history, don't waste your time on the war's critics. Google Cheney's bitter critique of President Clinton's military initiatives in the 2000 campaign, and specifically the need for more burden-sharing by allies and a sharply defined "exit strategy." At the time, about 11,000 American troops were in Bosnia and Kosovo working alongside about 55,000 soldiers from allied countries. If only! http://www.slate.com/id/2131029/

8."Stay the Course" is only a slogan not a strategy. Wes Clark quote http://securingamerica.com/node/686

9.Where is the necessary diplomacy? We need more than tough talk.
Pardon me....Bosnia/Kosovo was the mess Klinton got the USA into...it was Europe's problem anyways...and for the most part, it is stabilized and took years to do it.


Don't even get me started on Wesley Clark...he wanted to attack the Russian's when their paratroopers landed at one of the former Yugoslavia's airports..and the British General whom Clark ordered to attack the Russians told Clark: I am not that stupid, you want to start a mess you won't get out of, do it yourself.

I have talked to many on active duty who served under Wesley Clark...none have much respect for the man.
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....


BRENTENMAN. You do NOT COMMIT ACTS OF AGGRESSION. YOU DO NOT LIE TO THE CONGRESS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PRESS FORWARD ON A DOCTRINE OF WORLD DOMINATION. YOU DO NOT TAKE THE WORLD TO THE BRINK OF NUCLEAR WAR TO CREATE A DEMOCRACY THAT IS DIVIDED BY RELIGION AND REGION, SUPPORTIVE OF THE INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IN THE PROCESS CAUSE THE DEATHS OF OVER A HALF MILLION PEOPLE.
Brentenman..you have the biggest gun. BUT YOU DON'T DO ARMED ROBBERY FOR A LITTLE EXTRA CASH.
Our armed forces are for the defense of this country. NOT WORLD CONQUEST.
And, Bren Ten Man. Don't lie to yourself, or me, by saying we are fighting against world wide terror in Iraq. IT JUST AIN'T SO.
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Pardon me....Bosnia/Kosovo was the mess Klinton got the USA into...it was Europe's problem anyways...and for the most part, it is stabilized and took years to do it.


Don't even get me started on Wesley Clark...he wanted to attack the Russian's when their paratroopers landed at one of the former Yugoslavia's airports..and the British General whom Clark ordered to attack the Russians told Clark: I am not that stupid, you want to start a mess you won't get out of, do it yourself.

I have talked to many on active duty who served under Wesley Clark...none have much respect for the man.



where did you hear this story? can you back this up with facts?>>>>Wesley Clark...he wanted to attack the Russian's when their paratroopers landed at one of the former Yugoslavia's airports. by Brentenman<<<<<<

>>>>I have talked to many on active duty who served under Wesley Clark...none have much respect for the man. <<<<I to have talked to many on active duty and they say Bush's war is a lie for big OIL! and many who have no respect for Bush and Company as Bush's numbers are lower than Nixon. Bush should be impeached for his lies to the american people!!
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....


BRENTENMAN. You do NOT COMMIT ACTS OF AGGRESSION. YOU DO NOT LIE TO THE CONGRESS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PRESS FORWARD ON A DOCTRINE OF WORLD DOMINATION. YOU DO NOT TAKE THE WORLD TO THE BRINK OF NUCLEAR WAR TO CREATE A DEMOCRACY THAT IS DIVIDED BY RELIGION AND REGION, SUPPORTIVE OF THE INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IN THE PROCESS CAUSE THE DEATHS OF OVER A HALF MILLION PEOPLE.
Brentenman..you have the biggest gun. BUT YOU DON'T DO ARMED ROBBERY FOR A LITTLE EXTRA CASH.
Our armed forces are for the defense of this country. NOT WORLD CONQUEST.
And, Bren Ten Man. Don't lie to yourself, or me, by saying we are fighting against world wide terror in Iraq. IT JUST AIN'T SO.


EdEKit: why don't you send your remarks to some folks I know who are fighing over there now. I think they would disagree, esp. since they have captured/killed the following over there: Chechans, Bosnians, Saudi's, Afghani's, Iranians, Islamics from all over the place. These are politically correctly called "foreign fighters".

One 101st soldier I talked to recently told us about the Chechan sniper they killed, who was VERY good (killed a friend of his in a Bradley from over 400 yards away). They even killed a sniper who had a Czech Repub. passport.....

Yeah, send your comments to those who are or who have been to Iraq....you will be suprised what you get in response.
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....


BRENTENMAN. You do NOT COMMIT ACTS OF AGGRESSION. YOU DO NOT LIE TO THE CONGRESS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PRESS FORWARD ON A DOCTRINE OF WORLD DOMINATION. YOU DO NOT TAKE THE WORLD TO THE BRINK OF NUCLEAR WAR TO CREATE A DEMOCRACY THAT IS DIVIDED BY RELIGION AND REGION, SUPPORTIVE OF THE INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IN THE PROCESS CAUSE THE DEATHS OF OVER A HALF MILLION PEOPLE.
Brentenman..you have the biggest gun. BUT YOU DON'T DO ARMED ROBBERY FOR A LITTLE EXTRA CASH.
Our armed forces are for the defense of this country. NOT WORLD CONQUEST.
And, Bren Ten Man. Don't lie to yourself, or me, by saying we are fighting against world wide terror in Iraq. IT JUST AIN'T SO.


EdEKit: why don't you send your remarks to some folks I know who are fighing over there now. I think they would disagree, esp. since they have captured/killed the following over there: Chechans, Bosnians, Saudi's, Afghani's, Iranians, Islamics from all over the place. These are politically correctly called "foreign fighters".

One 101st soldier I talked to recently told us about the Chechan sniper they killed, who was VERY good (killed a friend of his in a Bradley from over 400 yards away). They even killed a sniper who had a Czech Repub. passport.....

Yeah, send your comments to those who are or who have been to Iraq....you will be suprised what you get in response.


Brentenman, although you are correct on what you are saying about our extended famiies over 'there'... You have to read Ed's reply and validate it.

This entire country was lied to, at least FIVE times by Bush about why we are there, we just cannot ignore that, we cannot forgive that, it is the utmost betrayal of a man in his official capacity.

BUT, now that we ARE there, then that is when YOUR comments come into play... What you said is just what most of us DO agree on, and I KNOW that we have a lot left to do there... Do I like it? NO WAY, do I support all those who are over there and going to be sent over there, HELL YES!!!

You know that I am older, and I have no idea what WAR is all about, in my young days, girls just didn't go, period.. no way.

1. But I DO have an idea, since my Dad is a Veteran, joined at 16 (lied about his age) the Army... Served his time, came home, graduated from Russellville High School, then went and joined the Navy... did his tour and came back home, and went into the National Guard, the big one in Florence, where he remained for the next about 25 years.

2. THEN my brother was drafted, and served his time during Vietnam, then joined the guards to get 20 years in.

3. And in the Interim, my ex hubby joined the Navy, served six years, in which I was a Dependant, and got out to get a degree, which he never 'got around to', Roll Eyes He liked his drugs too much!!! Another story though!

I DO know about Service Men, and what their Jobs, and their Oaths are... I admire and respect anyone who has on, or has EVER had on, or WILL EVER have on the Uniform!!!!

But do I respect a President who has lied to me five times about something as serious as a war that is getting our "family" killed... NO, I don't, and nothing is going to change that, because he cannot take those lies back.. they are all on video.

Brentenman... we ARE on your side!!! I promise!!! But, for the sake of us oldies, please understand why we are thinking what we are thinking. It has nothing to do with the love we feel for our Country, nor the love and gratefulness we feel for our Troops.
"Bush lied 5 times...."

Yeah....so did: Russia, Spain, UK, France, etc....EVERYONE had the SAME INTEL we had....but why is it the U.S. gets the hammer for it all? Bottom line: Saddam gassed, etc. had WMD and used it. The UN passed a resolution in the early 1990's for him to disclose FULLY his program, and Saddam FAILED to do so. Remember, KLINTON was POTUS during the 1990's and it was also US policy, meaning KLINTON's policy, to get rid of Saddam. 911 just sped things up a little. Heck, even Saddam himself lied to his own generals....Yep, love that Middle East culture....

Bottom line: whether you like it or not, conservative or liberal, we have a conflict over there. We as a nation either succede or fail. We succede, good comes out of it. Do not succede, well, our children will be affected by it. That is how I see it.
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
"Bush lied 5 times...."

Yeah....so did: Russia, Spain, UK, France, etc....EVERYONE had the SAME INTEL we had....but why is it the U.S. gets the hammer for it all? Bottom line: Saddam gassed, etc. had WMD and used it. The UN passed a resolution in the early 1990's for him to disclose FULLY his program, and Saddam FAILED to do so. Remember, KLINTON was POTUS during the 1990's and it was also US policy, meaning KLINTON's policy, to get rid of Saddam. 911 just sped things up a little. Heck, even Saddam himself lied to his own generals....Yep, love that Middle East culture....

Bottom line: whether you like it or not, conservative or liberal, we have a conflict over there. We as a nation either succede or fail. We succede, good comes out of it. Do not succede, well, our children will be affected by it. That is how I see it.


brentenman. everyone had the same intell we had, and they read it all. NOT JUST THE PARTS JUSTIFYING INVASION.
They read it, and they sent a force of inspectors to see if there was truth in it. AND THEY FOUND OUT THERE WAS NOT.
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Dated, yes.

So are the lessons from WW2 and other wars: you do not cut and run. The war is over when the enemy a. is completely wiped-out, dead or b. when he waves the flag of surrender.

I say we root out the Sunni-Shi'ite-al Quaeda insurgents, kill them, THEN and only THEN do we contemplate leaving.....or else, it will be just a festering sore.

I say we leave on OUR terms, not THEIR terms. Leaving on their terms is appeasement, weakness, milk-kneed, and disgraceful.

War is hell...I say give it to them. We didn't ask for it, they started it. So, we need to finish it. Time for Mickey Mouse crap is long gone.

After Iraq is done, then we turn on Iran. They want nukes, I say we give it to them, along the lines of several megatons.....


BRENTENMAN. You do NOT COMMIT ACTS OF AGGRESSION. YOU DO NOT LIE TO THE CONGRESS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PRESS FORWARD ON A DOCTRINE OF WORLD DOMINATION. YOU DO NOT TAKE THE WORLD TO THE BRINK OF NUCLEAR WAR TO CREATE A DEMOCRACY THAT IS DIVIDED BY RELIGION AND REGION, SUPPORTIVE OF THE INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IN THE PROCESS CAUSE THE DEATHS OF OVER A HALF MILLION PEOPLE.
Brentenman..you have the biggest gun. BUT YOU DON'T DO ARMED ROBBERY FOR A LITTLE EXTRA CASH.
Our armed forces are for the defense of this country. NOT WORLD CONQUEST.
And, Bren Ten Man. Don't lie to yourself, or me, by saying we are fighting against world wide terror in Iraq. IT JUST AIN'T SO.


EdEKit: why don't you send your remarks to some folks I know who are fighing over there now. I think they would disagree, esp. since they have captured/killed the following over there: Chechans, Bosnians, Saudi's, Afghani's, Iranians, Islamics from all over the place. These are politically correctly called "foreign fighters".

One 101st soldier I talked to recently told us about the Chechan sniper they killed, who was VERY good (killed a friend of his in a Bradley from over 400 yards away). They even killed a sniper who had a Czech Repub. passport.....

Yeah, send your comments to those who are or who have been to Iraq....you will be suprised what you get in response.




Published on Friday, March 28, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Support the Warrior Not the War: Give Them Their Benefits!
by Ashley L Decker

The recent rally cry "Support Our Troops" seems to me little more than a perverted, propaganda ploy to "Support the War." But we can support our troops, without supporting the war, by rectifying some of the following conditions.

The House of Representatives have recently voted on the 2004 budget which will cut funding for veteran's health care and benefit programs by nearly $25 billion over the next ten years. It narrowly passed by a vote of 215 to 212, and came just a day after Congress passed a resolution to "Support Our Troops." How exactly does this vote support our troops? Does leaving our current and future veterans veterans without access to health care and compensation qualify as supporting them?

The Veteran's Administration, plagued by recent budget cuts, has had to resort to charging new veterans entering into its system a yearly fee of $250 in order for them to receive treatment. It is a sad irony that the very people being sent to fight the war are going to have to pay to treat the effects of it.

According to the Veteran's Administration, 28 million veterans are currently using VA benefits. Another 70 million Americans are potential candidates for such programs. This amounts to a quarter of the country's population. Veterans and their families will sadly begin finding that they have no place to turn for their medical treatment as V.A. hospitals across the country face closing their doors. With the budget shrinking, staff will be let go. This could mean the loss of over 19,000 nurses. Without these nurses, this leads to the loss of over 6.6 million outpatient visits. Approximately one out of every two veterans could lose their only source of medical care. That is, if they even realize help is available to them. The Bush Administration recently ordered V.A. medical centers to stop publicizing available benefits to veterans seeking assistance. This follows discontinued enrollments of some eligible veterans for healthcare benefits as of January, 2003.

Bush Administration funding cuts will also prevent veterans from receiving their disability

pensions. My father was granted 100% disability six years ago for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder associated with the Vietnam War. He deserves every cent of it. As do all soldiers who are willing to go to war. Under the Bush administration, being granted the ability to receive war related compensation has become a rare privilege, not a right as it should be. Nearly a third of Gulf War veterans, about 209,000 veterans, have submitted claims to to the VA for disability. The backlog of unprocessed claims has reached the astronomical count of 489,297, a number which is unfortunately increasing all of time. There are also currently 500,000 Compensation and Pension cases still pending.



http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0328-11.htm
Veterans Feel Left Out, Ignored in Bush Speech
January 24, 2007 10:31 AM

Dana Hughes Reports:

It's not what President Bush said but what he left out of his State of the Union address that has outraged a major veteran's group, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

In his nearly one-hour State of the Union address, President Bush never mentioned the 1.6 million veterans the war has already produced, while repeatedly asking the American public and Congress to support his plan to send 20,000 more troops to Iraq.

"For the second year in a row, the president chose to mention the troops only really as a prop for his policies and ignored that these folks are coming home as new veterans," says Paul Rieckhoff, the executive director of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and an Iraq war veteran himself.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/01/veterans_feel_l.html
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
"Bush lied 5 times...."

Yeah....so did: Russia, Spain, UK, France, etc....EVERYONE had the SAME INTEL we had....but why is it the U.S. gets the hammer for it all? Bottom line: Saddam gassed, etc. had WMD and used it. The UN passed a resolution in the early 1990's for him to disclose FULLY his program, and Saddam FAILED to do so. Remember, KLINTON was POTUS during the 1990's and it was also US policy, meaning KLINTON's policy, to get rid of Saddam. 911 just sped things up a little. Heck, even Saddam himself lied to his own generals....Yep, love that Middle East culture....

Bottom line: whether you like it or not, conservative or liberal, we have a conflict over there. We as a nation either succede or fail. We succede, good comes out of it. Do not succede, well, our children will be affected by it. That is how I see it.


Even though these are important facts of HISTORY, the fact is BUSH is OUR President.... OURS, and he is the one who lied to all of us, not once, not twice, but FIVE times!!! We have ALWAYS known Russia to lie about everything, but Bush lieing about WHY we are at war FIVE different times...

I hope you can catch a station that happens to be airing ALL FIVE OF THOSE segments, so you can hear the crap for yourself... it is sickening.

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