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Interesting article from DISCOVER magazine, April 2010.

Building the Galaxies

A detailed account of the 13.7-billion-year history of the cosmos is finally within reach

In the beginning there was light: the hot fireball of the Big Bang. But the story of the universe really begins more properly with dark. The first structures to emerge from that early conflagration were enormous strands of dark matter, a material unaffected by the radiation still ricocheting around the early universe. Over millions of years, the gravitational pull of these strands attracted normal matter, which gradually collapsed into stars and galaxies. Smaller galaxies merged to form larger ones, giving rise to massive elliptical blobs and to shining pinwheels like our Milky Way.

Or so the current view holds. Astronomers have created a detailed theory of how the universe evolved from its fiery origins to the galactic zoo we see today. This picture of cosmic evolution, known as the cold dark matter (CDM) model, fits remarkably well with most observations. Until recently, though, a few stark problems stood out. Some galaxies have shapes that look nothing like astronomers' predictions, while other galaxies that they expected to see never showed up. Supercomputer simulations and new images from the world's great observatories are finally filling in the gaps. As a result, scientists canfor the first time ever provide a detailed life history of the cosmos.

One of the most vexing mysteries has concerned the shape of dwarf galaxies. The CDM model predicts that they should accumulate bulges of stars at their centers, surrounded by halos of dark matter held in place by gravity. In reality, observations showed that most dwarfs lacked this structure. A recent study may explain why. The key ingredient is violent stellar explosions, or supernovas, inside the developing galaxies. Because visible matter, including stars, is thought to make up just one-seventh of all the matter in the universe, many simulations left it off the table. But supernovas can blow material out of the dwarf galaxies' inner regions. So Fabio Governato, an astronomer at the University of Washington, and his colleagues simulated dwarf galaxy formation on super-computers, this time with supernova explosions in the mix. They found that their virtual dwarf galaxies mimicked the genuine article, lacking both a central bulge and a darkmatter halo. "This is a simple mechanism that we know exists, and it explains two long-standing puzzles in dwarf galaxy formation," Governato says.

Understanding the origin of small galaxies turns out to be important for understanding how all galaxies form. "Dwarf galaxies are the building blocks for galaxies like the Milky Way," Governato notes. "Getting the bricks right is important." The notion that large galaxies were built up from smaller pieces is called hierarchical formation. In the CDM model, this theory predicts that galaxies in the early universe should have been much smaller than modern ones. As researchers harvest light from the far reaches of space-in effect looking back billions of years through time-they are finding evidence confirming their expectation.

This past January, a new Hubble Space Telescope image revealed the deepest view of the universe yet. It shows galaxies dating to just 700 million years post-Big Bang. Ivo Labbé, a Hubble fellow at the Carnegie Observatories, examined the color and brightness of the fledgling galaxies to estimate their masses and ages. The galactic infants appear to have just 1 percent of the mass of our Milky Way, matching astronomers' predictions. "These little galaxies are just what cold dark matter predicted," says Joel Primack, a physicist at the University of California at Santa Cruz and one of the model's architects. But along with the confirmation came a new surprise: It appeared that these cosmic building blocks had already been forming stars for a few hundred million years, meaning we are "not yet reaching the zero hour of galaxy formation," Labbé says. "But we've just about exhausted what we can do with current telescopes."

To understand the birth of the earliest galaxies, astronomers eagerly await the next generation of instruments. The James Webb Space Telescope is slated for launch in 2014. Its 21-foot mirror will gather nearly seven times as much light as Hubble, and its detectors will be optimized to pick up infrared rays from very distant galaxies, whose light has been stretched and reddened by the expansion of the universe. Webb may be able to spot protogalaxies as they were just 250 million years after the Big Bang. Supersize ground telescopessuch as the Thirty Meter Telescope planned for Mauna Kea, Hawaii, and the European Extremely Large Telescope, spanning 42 meters (140 feet) will help astronomers probe the properties of the first galaxies, starting around 2018.

The new tools could help resolve another long-standing mystery, known as the missing satellite problem. "CDM predicts that galaxies like the Milky Way should be orbited by tens of thousands of clumps of dark matter," says Beth Willman, an astronomer at Haverford College. Yet the latest studies, which push current telescopes to the edge of their limits, have turned up only two dozen of these faint satellites. So where is the other 99.9 percent? Alternative "warm dark matter" models of cosmic structurein which galaxy formation was seeded by lighter, faster-moving particles that would not have clumped together as readily as cold dark mattercould eliminate the need for the missing galaxies. Unfortunately, warm dark matter models fail to reproduce the galaxies we see today, Governato says.

Willman thinks that the swarm of dark galaxies is out there, waiting to be uncovered by sensitive sky surveys. The nearly invisible satellites may be among the best places to nail down the identity of the enigmatic dark-matter particles thought to drive galactic evolution. High-energy gamma rays, perhaps a product of collisions between dark-matter particles, may stream 'from these wraithlike satellites. The Fermi Gamma-Ray Space Telescope, launched two years ago, is on the hunt for such signals. If successful, it could give physicists insights into the properties of dark matter and help nail down the identity of the mysterious unseen stuff that has so dominated the development of our universe.

It's been 2000 years. He's not coming back. Get over it!

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Hi David and Deep,

That is all very interesting. But, there are very important questions which none of this addresses. As a matter of fact, I have seen no scientist, atheist, secularist, etc., address these questions. Maybe you can answer them for me.

Since all of the universe came from that one extremely dense object, energy, or matter of whatever description -- hanging there in space; who hung it there?

Who or what created that first dense object?

Who or what created the space in which it hung?

If you say that it always existed -- then, that dense object or that space is God; for only God is preexisting. But, correct me if I am wrong -- I do not think that God exploded and caused the trillions of stars, planets, etc., which are in the billions of galaxies.

So, as always, we keep coming back to those three questions which NO ONE has ever answered:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space in which to hang it?

If you can honestly and correctly answer those questions; then I will become a believer on your team.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi David and Deep,

That is all very interesting. But, there are very important questions which none of this addresses. As a matter of fact, I have seen no scientist, atheist, secularist, etc., address these questions. Maybe you can answer them for me.

Since all of the universe came from that one extremely dense object, energy, or matter of whatever description -- hanging there in space; who hung it there?

Who or what created that first dense object?

Who or what created the space in which it hung?

If you say that it always existed -- then, that dense object or that space is God; for only God is preexisting. But, correct me if I am wrong -- I do not think that God exploded and caused the trillions of stars, planets, etc., which are in the billions of galaxies.

So, as always, we keep coming back to those three questions which NO ONE has ever answered:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space in which to hang it?

If you can honestly and correctly answer those questions; then I will become a believer on your team.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


At this time, Science and our understanding of it has not advance far enough to answer those, and other, questions.
but given time, the answers to those, and other questions, will be as common place knowledge as where the rain comes from is today.
Just because we don't know the answer now doesn't mean there isn't an answer. just now we are learning what questions we should be asking, eventually we'll get around to answering them.
And maybe, we will find out that the final answer really IS God. wouldn't that be a kick? if the science and reason that you disdain proves that the God that THEY disdain really exists?

talk about the Ultimate Irony lol
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
At this time, Science and our understanding of it has not advance far enough to answer those, and other, questions. but given time, the answers to those, and other questions, will be as common place knowledge as where the rain comes from is today. Just because we don't know the answer now doesn't mean there isn't an answer. just now we are learning what questions we should be asking, eventually we'll get around to answering them. And maybe, we will find out that the final answer really IS God. wouldn't that be a kick? if the science and reason that you disdain proves that the God that THEY disdain really exists? talk about the Ultimate Irony lol

Hi Nagel,

So, you do not know -- but, you do know it was not God -- right?

If you do not know who created that object and the space it hung in -- and who hung it there; how can you say it was not God?

And, God would not need billions of years to create the universe. He could just speak it into existence -- in a moment. But, so that we would have a guideline for our lives and for our work -- He did take six lunar days to create the universe and all that is in it. He's a pretty smart God.

But, let's make sure we are on the same page:

You tell me that you have no idea how the universe was created.

But, you do know that I am wrong when I say that God created the heavens and the earth, i.e., the universe.

My Friend, I am not sure if that is blind arrogance -- or if it is just plain total blindness. I do know that it is spiritual blindness.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROS_BIB-2_InBeginning
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
At this time, Science and our understanding of it has not advance far enough to answer those, and other, questions. but given time, the answers to those, and other questions, will be as common place knowledge as where the rain comes from is today. Just because we don't know the answer now doesn't mean there isn't an answer. just now we are learning what questions we should be asking, eventually we'll get around to answering them. And maybe, we will find out that the final answer really IS God. wouldn't that be a kick? if the science and reason that you disdain proves that the God that THEY disdain really exists? talk about the Ultimate Irony lol

Hi Nagel,

So, you do not know -- but, you do know it was not God -- right?

If you do not know who created that object and the space it hung in -- and who hung it there; how can you say it was not God?

And, God would not need billions of years to create the universe. He could just speak it into existence -- in a moment. But, so that we would have a guideline for our lives and for our work -- He did take six lunar days to create the universe and all that is in it. He's a pretty smart God.

But, let's make sure we are on the same page:

You tell me that you have no idea how the universe was created.

But, you do know that I am wrong when I say that God created the heavens and the earth, i.e., the universe.

My Friend, I am not sure if that is blind arrogance -- or if it is just plain total blindness. I do know that it is spiritual blindness.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Oh Bill, and you'd been so decent up till now.
you're putting words in my mouth so that you cna use them to make your point.

i didn't say it wasn't God.
YOU said i said it wasn't God.
in fact, there are places on this forum where i have said that it WAS god, but he didn't do it like you and your fellow fundies claim
Just because it WAS God doesn't mean he didn't follow the rules of science to do it.

you see.. the god i believe in doesn't cheat. God made the universe and everythign in it, which is, of course, going to include the laws of physics.
the God i believe in isn't going to make a set of rules that everything has to follow, and then ignore them because it isn't convienient for him.

this is what i meant when i said that we don't know how it was done, yet.



But to be honest, and to point the finger at myself, and to apologize,

i answered the wrong question. i just went back and re read your post, to make sure i was about to phrase something correctly . you wern't asking how, you were asking who.

and, for the sake OF honesty, i am leaving what i wrote in error, to show that when i'm wrong, i admit it freely.

the answer to the question i THOUGHT you asked is - i don't now HOW it was done.

the answer to the question you acctually DID ask, is God created the universe and everything in it.
See, now THIS is the kind of dialog I was looking for when I got here. Thanks, nagel-and you bring up some pretty good points without thumpin' the book. So does VP. Just what YOU think. What makes sense to YOU.
I outright asked BeeGee to do that when I first got here and he couldn't.

I want fire and brimstone or preaching, I'll invite the Jehovah's Witnesses over-nevermind I didn't even see the accident...

To those believers who have spoken YOUR minds and not just recited the book and then laid a choice of heaven or hell on me-Thank you.

Like I'm in a self-help meeting, I'm taking what I can use and leaving the rest. Although I must say the sheeple DO make for some interesting plinkin'.
Hey Puppy-
I personally don't feel that every question about everything can be answered by "the Book". To me, there is just so much more. "The Book" means different things to different people. Like I was trying to say earlier, before I got jumped on, (and yeah, I liked it) Big Grin
The book is soooo complicated and nobody can "get it" for sure. Insert BeeGee saying he disagrees.
When you're talking about the big bang,evolution, building of the universe,etc , i just tell myself that I cannot even pretend to understand. It is all so far beyond human comprehension. So I take what I need- God created the Heavens and Earth. Ok, how? I have no clue.
quote:
So, as always, we keep coming back to those three questions which NO ONE has ever answered:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space in which to hang it?

If you can honestly and correctly answer those questions; then I will become a believer on your team.


You want an HONEST answer? OK: Don't know, ignorant question and ignorant question. Questions 1 is legit. 2 and 3 are ignorant because there was no time or space "before" time and space began . . . As far as we know.

My FAITH suggests that there was a "Who" but I don't "know" squat. You, of course, will claim that you "know" Who and claim that anyone who disagrees is doomed to the Fiery Lake.

Now, I honestly and correctly answered. Will you hold your end of the bargain?

No, of course not.

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