Catholics and the Rapture

Originally Posted by: House of David

If all the "good Christians" are taken out of the world during the tribulation, who will be left on earth to convert the poor souls who are looking for answers during that time?  Would Jesus leave humans on earth for the devil to ravage but remove all the Christians who can convert them? This would prevent the spreading of the Gospel during that time. If he did that he would be condemning these non-Christians before the judgment day.

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Why would anyone need a Christian to convert them? Those that are left behind during tribulation are pretty much sure they're going to Hell already anyway so they wouldn't need anyone to convert them. JMO

One should never assume it's "too late"....God's mercy is endless for the repentant sinner.   

One should never run from the truth & lie to themselves either. I know where I'm going (if Hell/God is true) & I don't mind admitting it.

Rather than lie to myself, I accept the inevitable. There's bunches of people going, I just happen to know beforehand. 

I couldn't help but notice your sad face. Don't be sad for me, I've known this for a very long time.

Just my two cents.  Anyone who repents for any sins they may have committed does not go to Hell. Those who are mentally ill do not go to Hell. Children do not go to Hell.

If you have decided you are going to Hell, then that would release you from all restraints and you could go on a murdering, raping, pillaging run. No worries about how to act, no guilt, no remorse.

Have you done that?

Crumb, do you really think that? I don't believe in a god, a satan, a heaven, a hell, and yet here I am, not running wild, not stealing, cheating, murdering, drinking, drugging, abusing anyone, or doing anything else of the sort.  What makes a person think that only a belief in a god keeps a person from doing all that stuff? Is that what you and other christians would do if you lost your belief? Do any of the christians have an answer to that?

A true Christian, who dies in the state of sanctifying grace, his body

goes into the grave but his soul goes to either purgatory or heaven.

All this is determined by the particular judgment, which he faces, in his soul,

immediately upon death.

At the end of the world, when the general judgment takes place,

the Christian who is already in heaven in his soul existence, will not be

judged again -- 

2 Cor 5:8-10.

8- Yet we are courageous, and we would rather leave the body and go

home to the Lord.

9- Therefore, we aspire to please him, whether we are at home or away.

10- For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that

each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body,

whether good or evil. 

Rather, his body will be resurrected to meet his

soul, and he will await the creation of the New Heaven and New Earth.

The only people who will be judged at the general judgment are those who

remain on earth at the Second Coming of Christ, which will amount to billions

of people -- 

Apoc 20:11-15.

11 Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it.

The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them.

12 I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne,

and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life.

The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written

in the scrolls.

13 The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead.

All the dead were judged according to their deeds.

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. This pool of

fire is the second death.

15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was

thrown into the pool of fire.

A true Christian who sees the coming of Christ will first be raptured into

the air, body and soul, and await the creation of the New Heaven

and New Earth.

1 Thess 4:16-17 

16 For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of

an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from

heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first

17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together

with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall

always be with the Lord.

2Peter 3: 10

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens

will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved

by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out.

Non-Christians will remain on earth momentarily until they are

summoned for the general judgment, 

John 5:28-29-- 12:48.

28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which

all who are in the tombs will hear his voice

29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the

resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the

resurrection of condemnation.

John 12: 48

48 Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has

something to judge him: the word that I spoke,

it will condemn him on the last day.

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So since I choose not to live with all the restraints of Religion...........walk that fine line, live in fear, hope I'm living the correct religion......yada, yada, yada.......then that means I will begin a murdering, raping, pillaging run, as you call it?

Gosh, I had no idea. Can you tell me when I will begin this run?

Can a woman really rape a man? I've carried a pistol in my handbag for years, haven't murdered anyone yet. When should I do it & who am I supposed to murder?

Am I supposed to worry about acting like someone besides the real me? What should I feel guilty about? What's the remorse about that I'm supposed to be feeling? 

I've heard of "Christians" doing the very things you mentioned, but they get a pass because they're "living right"?

Weird!! I'm looking forward to your answering my questions.

Can a woman really rape a man?

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Yep.

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But a man won't get aroused unless he's turned on by what he's seeing. So why would he get turned on by being forced to have sex? If he's aroused, how can it be rape?

(sorry, folks, but that's the only way I knew to put it) 

semi......people that call themselves Christians but don't follow the teaching

of Christ aren't, in the true sense of the word. It doesn't matter what we

consider other people to be, we can only hope for ourselves in that we are

true to what we believe as far as the teachings of Christ are concerned.

And we must carry this fight to our end. The osas concept is very dangerous

for salvation, it isn't Biblical and can't be a true teaching of Christian belief.

If I did consider myself a true christian it doesn't matter if I can't prove it

when I die, by then I'll have proven it one way or the other.

When people try to pull a mountain over on top of themselves, then

yeah, maybe shock, maybe grind a little teeth, the worst thing

is you will be made aware of every deed good and bad.

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I just love this logic.

It assumes that all humans are monstrous, nasty, vile, evil beings constantly teetering on the edge of depravity who would immediately embark on a path of mayhem and destruction if it were not for the threat of 'hell.' it convinces humans that they are worthless and 'bad' by nature and that they are doomed unless they follow.

It's really the ultimate 'pay-to-play' game.

"HELL. Give the church 10% of your income or you're going there."

It's all about money/ain't a dang thing funny/

ya gotta have a con/ in this land of milk and honey.

Tell me then, picker-why I as a hard atheist have not gone on a rampage of murder, rape and pillage...I fear neither heaven or hell as they are highly illogical and do not exist.

I am surely capable of doing these things, yet I elect not to.  I don't even have to waste a second thinking about not doing these bad things.  The thought of doing bad usually doesn't even occur to me.

A christian friend of mine recounted to me yesterday afternoon about how he pulled a fast one on his landlord. Apparently the landlord doesn't keep good records and couldn't recall if the month's rent had been paid but that didn't stop my christian friend from convincing his landlord that he had paid it already. (lying/stealing).

My landlord doesn't keep good records, either. I go hungry sometimes to be able to make the rent.

The house comes first, as without it, everything else is kinda pointless.

I could just as easily fool my landlord into believing he's already been paid. Hell, I get rent receipts written on bar napkins with a magic marker... I've had lots of opportunities to do so but I haven't. I could sure use the money sometimes....

There have been times in my life-now being one of them-where all I have to my name that's worth anything is my word.

I compromise that and I am truly worthless. Therefore, I keep my word.

Why would you say that is, picker? Any thoughts? I'm curious as to how you would rationalize my behavior. Anybody? 

Sin is an imaginary disease dreamed up to sell you an imaginary cure.

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But if you are wrong about those teachings, where will you end up? Not everyone's teachings can be correct so someone has to be wrong.

I agree that osas is dangerous, but there's alot of Pastor's teaching it from the pulpit.

I don't know that I can be made anymore aware of every deed, good and bad,

than I already am. 

Vic, I never want you to think I'm just being picky over some things & carrying it to far. I am truly confused & alot of the things that the Atheist post on here make sense to me. I never want to take something for granted just because a Pastor gave his opinion or a Christian friend told me

how she/he believes. I've been thru the Bible, studied it, & even though some people can't show me where I'm wrong, there is a bunch of contridictions in it.

I wouldn't want to live with or even be around someone I was in fear of but I'm supposed to love a God that I'm also supposed to fear?

That's garbage!   

Picky Smicky, I think you're being very picky, but you might not

be carrying things far enough and you might not be picky enough.

Stop thinking too much about church, what church, what Bible

whos Bible, and start listening to semi.

Take it from your beginning, the point in time your first doubt started.

You can't be too picky when it's as important to you as this is.

PM me if you want to, and we can try together.

I know it's important to you because you can't be quite about it, and I

mean that in a seriously sincere way. It's good you are the way you are.

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You are confusing law and human physiology and anatomy.  The law can define an offense in any way it wishes, so long as it is constitutional.  Rape can thus be defined in terms of age of the victim

and his perceived inability to understand the consequences of sexual intercourse with an adult, irrespective of whether he is placed in circumstances that produce arousal.

You are an atheist.  You do not believe in an afterlife, a god, or any outside influence. You are not going to hell since it does not exist for you. End of story.

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End of story? What story exactly? I'm not you. I don't need a mythical god to keep me "straight". I have plenty of good "outside" influences, just not an imaginary one.

You have said you do not believe, yet you present scripture to show how to live according to the Bible.  You cannot do both. Since you have already decided your end fate, you might as well have a little fun with it. You constantly say you have no faith and god doesn't exist, then turn around and claim to be going to hell for some made up offense. You either believe or you don't. There is no middle ground. If you believe in the slightest possibility of a higher power, you believe.  If you are positive of no higher power, then you are atheist. If you are so sure you are going to hell, then in your mind you have committed an unpardonable sin. You constantly jump from one side to the other. As for Christians getting a 'pass', only until they die.

Tell me then, picker-why I as a hard atheist have not gone on a rampage of murder, rape and pillage...I fear neither heaven or hell as they are highly illogical and do not exist.

Therefore, you have no need of religion. Some need the religious experience, others don't. Once you have set your mind, then it is your experience. I am not judging or making a religious stance. If you are satisfied with your life, that is all that is needed.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

I'm fine. I have made my decision about religion. It is a personal one and I need no one to 'explain' it to me. You might try to instruct Semiannual as she seems to need help.

Thanks for the offer, though.

BTW, I posted as the topic was interesting.  I usually stay in politics since religion is always 'my god is better than your god, or you're an idiot for believing in god'.

Rather mundane.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

The argument of 'religion'. You do not believe so an argument about an 'imaginary' god is pointless. I have never understood why so many people want to argue over something that is a personal choice. You don't need a mythical god, so why discuss one?

Being male, I cannot give birth.  Why would I discuss child birth with women?

Illogical.

I hope I have answered all questions. Should I have missed something, I shall be back in a few days to look them over.  Also, please remember, I am only giving my opinion, nothing more.

Chow.

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Well crumb, stop trying to force everyone to live the way your "god" says they should, stop telling us who we have to discriminate against because  your god says we should, stop trying to teach your god to our children in our schools, and stop telling us who to vote for because of their religion, who we should hire and fire for their religion and so on, and there will be nothing to discuss.

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I don't understand 

If you know you have a choice, why choose hell ??????

Why choose hell? 

Semi, if you know you have a choice, why hell......you seem so certain

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Maybe I missed something. Where did I say I knew I had a choice?

Semi,

If you know there's a heaven and you know there's a hell, then the choice is your's to make.

Dont accept hell as your destination, plz 

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No, just goes to show you don’t know me at all & that some of my post have been just a hit & miss with you. I have never said that I definitely do not believe, & I’ve never said I definitely do believe. You think I should have a little fun about my going to Hell? Why would you advise me to do that & why would you be pleased with my doing so? That sounds like something Satan himself would say. (IF he's real)

I do not constantly say I have no faith, I’ve never said for a fact that God doesn't exist. Claim to be going to hell for some offense I made up? Are you for real? Are you a Christian at all or you just another Bill Gray that is here to ridicule & put down?  You are very much wrong if you think someone has to either believe or not believe. There is an in between, that point of indecision, not knowing for sure, questioning.

This statement where you said “If you believe in the slightest possibility of a higher power, you believe.  If you are positive of no higher power, then you are atheist”, is one of the most ridiculous, childish things I’ve ever heard.

IF I’m going to hell??  I guess you made that statement because you seem to think I’m “having fun” with this? It’s not any of your business, but what if I had committed an unpardonable sin? Would you still make fun of me then too? "Christians" like you have a lot of fun with people like me, don't they?

I have never jumped from one side or the other. Anyone here can tell you I’m full of questions, & yes, most people here get tired of my asking.

I’ve never made a secret of the fact that I’m confused. I was raised in church, spent alot of years as an adult in church. I know the Bible, I know the scriptures, but unless you know for a fact all of it is real, those scriptures don’t mean much, but you can still have questions.

If all you can do is make fun of me, & put me down, please pretend I’m not here & ignore any post you see of mine.

Be careful using your "pass". You never know when you will take that last breath & your pass isn't good anymore.

I have never jumped from one side or the other. Anyone here can tell you I’m full of questions, & yes, most people here get tired of my asking.

I’ve never made a secret of the fact that I’m confused. I was raised in church, spent alot of years as an adult in church. I know the Bible, I know the scriptures, but unless you know for a fact all of it is real, those scriptures don’t mean much, but you can still have questions.

If all you can do is make fun of me, & put me down, please pretend I’m not here & ignore any post you see of mine.

Since I don't post here much, I was just reading what you wrote in this thread and a few others.  I am not going to go back and do an inventory of all your posts. I was in no way making fun of you or anyone else here.  I even made the mistake of thinking I was the 'Picky Smicky' someone referred to.

If you are so sensitive about discussing your religious views or lack thereof, then don't post in a public forum.

Since you are so sure you are going to hell, I thought my advice was on target. If you are already condemned, go for broke.

You said you were sure, then get angry when I repeat it back to you. Illogical.

July 27, 2012 2:37 AM

One should never run from the truth & lie to themselves either. I know where I'm going (if Hell/God is true) & I don't mind admitting it.

I won't be posting much here, so you are safe from my  " ridiculous, childish, evil influence". BTW, I have no pass. I was using that to make a point that any one who thinks they know their destiny is wrong.

Chow.

Chow? Hmmmm

Ciao

ciao/CHou

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Who is 'us' and who is 'they'?  I force no one, tell no one, and teach no one about any god because that is a personal matter. If you can't decide who to vote for without someone telling you, then you have more problems than religious nuts in the world.

Would that be any god or do you have a preference for one you especially dislike? I would suggest homeschool or a private academy if you find the outside views of the world are too much for your children to handle.

In this country, about 80% of people have some form of religious beliefs. It is impossible not to run in to a few now and then. While I disagree with about 75% of that group, I have no need to confront them on their views. I have no need to 'prove' my view is right. I have no need to insult or criticize their view.

Basically, to each his/her own.

My opinion is worthless to most and I don't have a desire to change that.

As I told semiannualchick, she made a definitive statement and I responded. Then she became upset. Why does what an anonymous person writes on a forum bothers people, I will never understand.

Anyway, continue the 'my god is better than your god, and you are all idiots for having a belief'.

It does seem to be the only format for a religious forum.

Sad really. Religion should be an interesting discussion.

Chow.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Chow, suuuthern spelling.

I thought it was "Chow!!!  Let's go eat!"

Originally Posted by: Crumbpicker

If you are so sensitive about discussing your religious views or lack thereof, then don't post in a public forum.

Since you are so sure you are going to hell, I thought my advice was on target. If you are already condemned, go for broke.

You said you were sure, then get angry when I repeat it back to you.

Sensitive? Angry? Not at all, but when you post something that leads to the assumption that you know me, I will correct you. If you want to know, ask me & I’ll tell you.

You could easily take your own advice about posting in a public forum. You know that old saying, “If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen”?

Would you show me where I said anything about your “evil” influence?

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It is.