Vorkun, we have a friend that is 73 years old. He said the government just sentanced him to death. He firmly believes he will be denied life-saving healthcare because of his age, and I'm afraid he may be right.
quote:Originally posted by Vorkun:
Peter like my granddad said when he retired.
When they took the money out of his check it was worth a dollar. giving it back it was only worth .25 cents!
I really feel sorry for some people that think this will save them. I was talking to a woman a few days ago that said Obama just gave her another 25 years with her kids! I asked how? Seems she is a diabetic and wasn't able to get insurance to now, and she needs surgery. One problem, Even after she gets the insurance. She may not get the surgery needed if a doctor or government regulations decides it will not be in the best interest or cost effective calculating in her age.
People really I mean really better wake up to this Government take over and start reading the fine print. That fine print is what has been destroying this country to the point the bubble is about to burst and I am thinking it is so far gone now there is no stopping it.
We are so far in dept with china right now and they are talking of dropping the feds money. What are we going to do when they start wanting payments? We Are A Broke Country and no one seems to understand this.
China owns about $900-1200billion of US Treasuries. They cant "call" a treasury bond. At the discretion of the US Treasury, they can keep paying the interest on the bonds indefinitely. Bond interest will be about $400-500billion next year.
I believe your friend would be on Medicaid, which is a whole different discussion.
quote:Originally posted by JuanHunt:
that image is from a TEA Party rally, and demonstrates the lack of clarity on the health care issue.
Old folks love their Medicare. Medicare is just like any insurance: your premium pays for the care of others which entitles you to have your care paid for when you need it. The problem with Medicare is that health care costs are outpacing increases in wages by a large amount, and people are just living too long.
SS is much more complicated and much more dysfunctional. The idea of privatizing was on the right track.
The sign was probably directed towards rumblings that to help pay for this would be fiasco, some of the money would have to come from other gov't funded programs.
But, answer the question I posed to you in my last post. That's as simple as I could possibly put my stance on the issue of big government. Read and answer that question. DO YOU TRUST OTHER PEOPLE WITH YOUR MONEY TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND IF SO WHY? AND ALSO IF SO, GIVE ME $100 DOLLARS A WEEK FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS AND I PROMISE TO DO ONLY GOOD THINGS WITH IT.
quote:Originally posted by Vorkun:quote:Originally posted by JuanHunt:
Thats quite a long metaphor. But isnt that what happens now? Docs and hospitals dont work for free, so when they provide charity care to the uninsured, they just raise the cost of care for all of us.
What has drove the cost of health care up more then anything is lawyers hanging around in the operating rooms with pin in hand ready to sue doctors at the drop of a dime.
Just look over what all doctors have been sued for and for how much.
malpractice insurance has sky rocketed over the years and drove the price of hospital, doctors cost up as well because they could be out millions if the mess up and give a pill and not liquid form meds for a headache.
Couple this with the fact that pharmaceutical companies have lobbied millions in the hands of politicians that have kept cheaper drugs out of the U.S that has been proven in such countries as Canada and others.
This bill does not help in these areas at all.
I agree somethings in the bill is good, Precondition for example.
While others will not work they will be bankrupt and it will fail in time. If any thing history should teach us this.
Canada has a bill sort of like this, If you ever get in a chat room or talk with a Canadian, A Canadian that has to work and pay half his check into it, They will tell you how much of a fail it is becoming.
Free market and government with all it's failed regulations out of the way would have drove health care down. Stop lobbyists in Washington, Lawyers being able to sue so easy, and free market. These are proven.
If I sell cars, and some one opens a car dealership next to me at a better price then me. I will be forced to lower prices or go out of business. That is free Market. Sometimes Companies go under but others will take their place.
Your tin foil hat has stopped working, you need to go buy another one quick !
Although I agree with some of the need for tort reform, IF it were enacted to the fullest amount, the savings to us would be virtually non-existent. Fixing the wrong problem is useless.
You did however get it right on the big pharmacy companies screwing us. We pay about 5 times for medicines more than the rest of the world pays for the same exact medicine due to the pay-offs from big pharma to congressmen (mostly Republicans)
As far as the charity hospitals etc, maybe that crazy woman in Arizona wasn't so crazy- we could go back to just paying our doctors bills with chickens.
quote:Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Juan... This gov't who proves over and over that they mismanage money is the one you want to now take over healthcare for the entire country??? Once again, I posed this question to you that you didn't answer.
If you knew that I was broke, wrote bad checks constantly, and didn't make hardly enough to cover my expenses, then I walked up to you and said, give me 25-30% of your paycheck every pay period and "I promise" to do you proud with it. What would you say?
1)I have no opinion on the in and outs of Democare as I dont know any of the specifics contained in the law. i do know there is a brand new tax deduction for small businesses that provide health insurance to employees. I know the pre-existing condition requirement is essentially eliminated. I know my health insurance premiums have gone up 10-20% per year for the last 15 and I dont see that changing.
2)The question is ridiculous, or at least rhetorical. Our society has deemed that government is charged with providing assistance to those that are unable to provide for themselves by allocating tax revenues to those found to be in need. That is our system and will always be our system. Find a way to get laid off from your job and you will get a check for $280/week for 99 weeks of your life. Is that enough?
quote:Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
If bleeding heart libs would all simply donate $1 a day each to a charity instead of whining that the gov't take more of our money, I think we could end the homeless and starving problems BOTH here in the United States of America. How about it Rocky!? Instead of constantly railing against republicans, take it upon yourself to help the poor! Post on this thread that you want all bleeding heart libs like yourself to come up with a good charity. Ya'll each donate one buck a day(or everytime you get the urge to whine about republicans which I'm sure is multiple times a day so that would be even better. lol).
I'm dead serious! This is my challenge to you, and all the libs out there. beternu.. you too. Every time you get the urge to post something about Fox Newx and/or Glenn Beck, INSTEAD donate one dollar to a charity that feeds the hungry, houses the homeless, or clothes the poor. Instead of whining constantly that you want the gov't to hand out other people's money, GIVE UP YOUR OWN. And call all of your lib friends. No more whining that the gov't should do it. No more "Fox News and Glenn Beck are brainwashing folks". No more idiotic protests. Just put up or shut up. One measily dollar... that's it. Just one dollar for every urge you have to rail against republicans, Fox News, Glenn Beck...etc. etc... One dollar to a charity for each urge. How about it? Do you accept that challenge?
This "Peter Rielly" character must have crawled out from under a rethugliteacon rock somewhere, can't say I remember you or you may just be another of the screennames of the schizophenic poster Cage/Jobe, but since I was mentioned as challanged in the original header I will respond. BULL*HIT! Plain and simple. THE BENEVOLENT RETHUGLICANS INDEED! Found this you tube video update of an old theme during the last two years, I like the one where the TEABAGGERS are practically beating up a cripple man at one of their anti-healthcare rallies. (Loved the post from the gravy bowl about death panels and a scared 73 year old) With Foxophiles and TEABAGGERS in control of congress along with geniune rethuglicans you are actually challanging a liberal for compassion????????? Really more rethuglican hypocrisy but definitely THUG BUL*****! Carry on right wing rabid rethugliteacons and FOXOPHILES and assorted dining room furniture and the gravy bowl!
Let's see how fuc*ed up you can get the country this go-round.ENJOY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlbjMGrpAYM
Well Mr. "wishes he was half as smart as a gravy bowl", where did I mention death panels? Come on hotshot, show me. You're a complete idiot, not one part missing. Maybe you like the idea of a 73 year old being afraid but I don't.
quote:Originally posted by Jennifer:
Well Mr. "wishes he was half as smart as a gravy bowl", where did I mention death panels? Come on hotshot, show me. You're a complete idiot, not one part missing. Maybe you like the idea of a 73 year old being afraid but I don't.
NOTICE TO THE FORUM PUBLIC: I do not believe in ignore but I do have a resolution for the New Year of 2011, I will no longer debate those with the intellect of a gravy bowl or assorted dining room furniture.
quote:NOTICE TO THE FORUM PUBLIC: I do not believe in ignore but I do have a resolution for the New Year of 2011, I will not longer debate those with the intellect of a gravy bowl or assorted dining room furniture.
In other words he can't hang. Well, I don't have a problem with ignore so I will put you, gravy bowl wannabe on ignore. And I will take your statement as what it is, a statement of defeat. You proved you can't debate and you have no rational answers.
Rocky, you moronically cherry pickin small scale instances that help you in your constant battle against the Republican party and Fox News is getting old. I'm guessing by that rambling and meaningless post that you don't want to accept my challenge. lol
and Juan, where are you getting that society has deemed the gov't in charge of providing assistance to anybody? That's crazy and unconstitutional. The only way that is valid in any way is to tear up the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and start over with a completely new country. A very very tiny portion of any of this garbage actually goes to a vote of the people, only to a vote of elected officials. Over the last 8 or 9 decades, the tactic of libs has been to bullcrap the people into believing they are doing this to help them. When in reality it is to grow the federal gov't. If you don't see that then you don't understand what is going on. There are ZERO rights in the Constitution for anything handed to the citizens of this country by the gov't. The Constitution was put in place to LIMIT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PROTECT THE CITIZENS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT pertaining to the issues within it. Anything outside the scope of that document is illegal. If states implement some of these types of things with the consent of their citizens, that's one thing, but for the federal government to grow the way it has is complete insanity and far outside those boundaries that were set for it. Now, if you tell me you think the Constitution is bunk and we need to destroy it and start over, fine. But debate from that standpoint so I'll know where you are coming from. and that is that you hate what America was, and what it was intended to be and that the founding fathers were wrong. I'd disagree with you, but once again, I would at least respect you for being consistent and honest.
and Juan, where are you getting that society has deemed the gov't in charge of providing assistance to anybody? That's crazy and unconstitutional. The only way that is valid in any way is to tear up the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and start over with a completely new country. A very very tiny portion of any of this garbage actually goes to a vote of the people, only to a vote of elected officials. Over the last 8 or 9 decades, the tactic of libs has been to bullcrap the people into believing they are doing this to help them. When in reality it is to grow the federal gov't. If you don't see that then you don't understand what is going on. There are ZERO rights in the Constitution for anything handed to the citizens of this country by the gov't. The Constitution was put in place to LIMIT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PROTECT THE CITIZENS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT pertaining to the issues within it. Anything outside the scope of that document is illegal. If states implement some of these types of things with the consent of their citizens, that's one thing, but for the federal government to grow the way it has is complete insanity and far outside those boundaries that were set for it. Now, if you tell me you think the Constitution is bunk and we need to destroy it and start over, fine. But debate from that standpoint so I'll know where you are coming from. and that is that you hate what America was, and what it was intended to be and that the founding fathers were wrong. I'd disagree with you, but once again, I would at least respect you for being consistent and honest.
Define unconstitutional, in the context of the three branches of federal government?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Rocky, you moronically cherry pickin small scale instances that help you in your constant battle against the Republican party and Fox News is getting old. I'm guessing by that rambling and meaningless post that you don't want to accept my challenge. lol
What challange? Give a dollar to charity every time I hear a Glenn Beck lie?? I am a poor college student with a part time job. I don't make that much, it would be a stretch for Oprah Winfrey!
And besides, there is even one of the famous "conspiracies" the TEABAGGER crowd on this forum is famous for about ME that I get PAID by George Soros for my AWARD winning series about the lies of Glenn Beck and FOXOPHILES!
I am not about to quit as you say "cherry picking" If you rethugliteacons had your way, there would be no opposing viewspoints on anything and basically with this latest move patterned after pre-Hitler Germany concerning the debt ceiling, that is exactly the rethugliteacon goal. As your poster boy GW stated: "A dictatorship would be easier"
But this is a democratic forum. Post all the right wing radical propoganda and FOXOPHILE half truths and lies you want and I will counter with Glenn Beck and Fox lies of the day and whatever new (and we have a gold mine in John Boehner) slurs I can find about rethugliteacons. It really is TOO EASY!
Rocky, you moronically cherry pickin small scale instances that help you in your constant battle against the Republican party and Fox News is getting old. I'm guessing by that rambling and meaningless post that you don't want to accept my challenge. lol
What challange? Give a dollar to charity every time I hear a Glenn Beck lie?? I am a poor college student with a part time job. I don't make that much, it would be a stretch for Oprah Winfrey!
And besides, there is even one of the famous "conspiracies" the TEABAGGER crowd on this forum is famous for about ME that I get PAID by George Soros for my AWARD winning series about the lies of Glenn Beck and FOXOPHILES! I am not about to quit as you say "cherry picking" If you rethugliteacons had your way, there would be no opposing viewspoints on anything and basically with this latest move patterned after pre-Hitler Germany concerning the debt ceiling, that is exactly the rethugliteacon goal. As your poster boy GW stated: "A dictatorship would be easier"
But this is a democratic forum. Post all the right wing radical propoganda and FOXOPHILE half truths and lies you want and I will counter with Glenn Beck and Fox lies of the day and whatever new (and we have a gold mine in John Boehner) slurs I can find about rethugliteacons. It really is TOO EASY!
college student... thanks for telling me all a lot about you. lol... yeah, I remember my days in college. Odd that my best friends there were all ragin left wing libs. But at least they made sense in their arguements and didnt show that they were "Media Matters Robots" like ol rocky boy here. lol ... come on man, you need a new hobby other than stalking Fox New commentators.
And when did I say GW was "my boy"? I disagreed with him on many issues. once again you try to put me in a category so it's easier for you to attack. But I'm not in any category that you have any understanding of as is obvious from your many childish rants about Glenn Beck, Fox News, and the Republican party. You are attacking me with things that are meaningless to me. lol
As for Nazi Germany...if you really studied up on that you'd see many more similarities to your King Barry than to GW Bush. lol
ps... if you are an 18-22 yr old kid in college, you know nothing about the world. you are indeed clueless. Holla back when you wander into the real world and see what the federal gov't does to that paycheck every week.
And when did I say GW was "my boy"? I disagreed with him on many issues. once again you try to put me in a category so it's easier for you to attack. But I'm not in any category that you have any understanding of as is obvious from your many childish rants about Glenn Beck, Fox News, and the Republican party. You are attacking me with things that are meaningless to me. lol
As for Nazi Germany...if you really studied up on that you'd see many more similarities to your King Barry than to GW Bush. lol
ps... if you are an 18-22 yr old kid in college, you know nothing about the world. you are indeed clueless. Holla back when you wander into the real world and see what the federal gov't does to that paycheck every week.
quote:Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
college student... thanks for telling me all a lot about you. lol... yeah, I remember my days in college. Odd that my best friends there were all ragin left wing libs. But at least they made sense in their arguements and didnt show that they were "Media Matters Robots" like ol rocky boy here. lol ... come on man, you need a new hobby other than stalking Fox New commentators.
And when did I say GW was "my boy"? I disagreed with him on many issues. once again you try to put me in a category so it's easier for you to attack. But I'm not in any category that you have any understanding of as is obvious from your many childish rants about Glenn Beck, Fox News, and the Republican party. You are attacking me with things that are meaningless to me. lol
As for Nazi Germany...if you really studied up on that you'd see many more similarities to your King Barry than to GW Bush. lol
ps... if you are an 18-22 yr old kid in college, you know nothing about the world. you are indeed clueless. Holla back when you wander into the real world and see what the federal gov't does to that paycheck every week.
MAN!!!!!! Just how far down the road are you? Militia type? Seperationist? KKK? You definitely bring a new form of crazy to this already right wing forum!
Well, we already have Communist tea partiers on here, so I guess it is time for a neo-Nazi rethuglican.quote:Originally posted by rocky:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Rocky, you moronically cherry pickin small scale instances that help you in your constant battle against the Republican party and Fox News is getting old. I'm guessing by that rambling and meaningless post that you don't want to accept my challenge. lol
What challange? Give a dollar to charity every time I hear a Glenn Beck lie?? I am a poor college student with a part time job. I don't make that much, it would be a stretch for Oprah Winfrey!
I am not about to quit as you say "cherry picking" If you rethugliteacons had your way, there would be no opposing viewspoints on anything and basically with this latest move patterned after pre-Hitler Germany concerning the debt ceiling, that is exactly the rethugliteacon goal. As your poster boy GW stated: "A dictatorship would be easier"
But this is a democratic forum. Post all the right wing radical propoganda and FOXOPHILE half truths and lies you want and I will counter with Glenn Beck and Fox lies of the day and whatever new (and we have a gold mine in John Boehner) slurs I can find about rethugliteacons. It really is TOO EASY!
Rocky,
Any awards you've won for your series exist either in your mind, or an alternate universe. Step away from the key board and take your lithium and xenax. You've off your meds. No one really believes your paid by Soros, its a jibe. You're out of orbit and reaching the burn and crash point.
Translated, you're a cuckoo bird in search of a clock!
quote:Originally posted by elinterventor01:quote:Originally posted by rocky:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Rocky, you moronically cherry pickin small scale instances that help you in your constant battle against the Republican party and Fox News is getting old. I'm guessing by that rambling and meaningless post that you don't want to accept my challenge. lol
What challange? Give a dollar to charity every time I hear a Glenn Beck lie?? I am a poor college student with a part time job. I don't make that much, it would be a stretch for Oprah Winfrey!
I am not about to quit as you say "cherry picking" If you rethugliteacons had your way, there would be no opposing viewspoints on anything and basically with this latest move patterned after pre-Hitler Germany concerning the debt ceiling, that is exactly the rethugliteacon goal. As your poster boy GW stated: "A dictatorship would be easier"
But this is a democratic forum. Post all the right wing radical propoganda and FOXOPHILE half truths and lies you want and I will counter with Glenn Beck and Fox lies of the day and whatever new (and we have a gold mine in John Boehner) slurs I can find about rethugliteacons. It really is TOO EASY!
Rocky,
Any awards you've won for your series exist either in your mind, or an alternate universe. Step away from the key board and take your lithium and xenax. You've off your meds. No one really believes your paid by Soros, its a jibe. You're out of orbit and reaching the burn and crash point.
Translated, you're a cuckoo bird in search of a clock!
Lithium AND xanax? His condition should REALLY be progressing more...
And to think, I actually stated I mildly respected you Elintorventor in another rebuttal! 
I don't do prescription drugs, that is your generations addiction problem along with alcohol, so I can understand why you would assume anyone who doesn't agree with everything you do needs medication. It is part of your "conditioning" As for marksw59, he just has a bad case of 
balls, cheer up Mark, the PM FUNCTION IS FIXED!!!!!
I don't do prescription drugs, that is your generations addiction problem along with alcohol, so I can understand why you would assume anyone who doesn't agree with everything you do needs medication. It is part of your "conditioning" As for marksw59, he just has a bad case of balls, cheer up Mark, the PM FUNCTION IS FIXED!!!!! quote:Rocky,
Any awards you've won for your series exist either in your mind, or an alternate universe. Step away from the key board and take your lithium and xenax. You've off your meds. No one really believes your paid by Soros, its a jibe. You're out of orbit and reaching the burn and crash point.
Translated, you're a cuckoo bird in search of a clock!
Old rockhead won a "major award"? What was it, a lamp shaped like a woman's leg? bawahahahahahahaha
quote:Originally posted by Jennifer:quote:Rocky,
Any awards you've won for your series exist either in your mind, or an alternate universe. Step away from the key board and take your lithium and xenax. You've off your meds. No one really believes your paid by Soros, its a jibe. You're out of orbit and reaching the burn and crash point.
Translated, you're a cuckoo bird in search of a clock!
Old rockhead won a "major award"? What was it, a lamp shaped like a woman's leg? bawahahahahahahaha
"Dam Hell, you say you won it?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! IN MY TOP 5 OF GREATEST MOVIES EVER!! Not just Christmas movies, just movies. That was a masterpiece.
quote:Originally posted by rocky:
And to think, I actually stated I mildly respected you Elintorventor in another rebuttal!
Sorry,
The only prescription I take is a blood pressure pill. Add, a multi-vitamin and a low dosage aspirin and that's the totality of my meds. Otherwise, had a couple of shots of morphine in 1971 after an unfortunate run-in with a chicom 120 MM rocket.
I questioned your hold on reality when you mentioned winning awards for your posts. Its your generation that's over medicated for ADD. I blame the liberals for that -- bore the heck out of kids in class. Then, medicate them.
quote:Originally posted by elinterventor01:quote:Originally posted by rocky:
And to think, I actually stated I mildly respected you Elintorventor in another rebuttal!
Sorry,
The only prescription I take is a blood pressure pill. Add, a multi-vitamin and a low dosage aspirin and that's the totality of my meds. Otherwise, had a couple of shots of morphine in 1971 after an unfortunate run-in with a chicom 120 MM rocket.
I questioned your hold on reality when you mentioned winning awards for your posts. Its your generation that's over medicated for ADD. I blame the liberals for that -- bore the heck out of kids in class. Then, medicate them.
Elintorventer, although I rarely agree with your political opinions, I admit that you are a very intelligent and well read gentleman and in no way would insinuate that you have any type of addiction. Basically (and I think you know this) I was just being a smart ass!
Just like the crack about winning an award (was referring to ferrellj, another right winger I respect, mentioning me as newcomer of the year in his forum awards post)
Wow, someone broke into rocky's room and used his computer. This is clearly not rocky writing this.