Church Discipline Who Gets Wacked?

I think the word "DISCIPLINE" is the wrong word to use when dealing with someone's faith.

Counselling would be much better. And even at that, I am not sure I agree with kicking someone out, afterall, if they are a sinner as the Churches claim, then Church is THE place they NEED to be!!!

Old saying one of my bosses used to say, "Keep going to the Barber, you WILL get a haircut". Relating that to this, if they KEEP coming back, they will eventually get the Message.

I truly believe with all my heart that Jesus would have NEVER kicked anyone out.

Of course most of the sins would invlolve vice. Sex, drugs, drink or some other obvious form of sin. Over eating, greed, mendacity and less obvious sins will go ignored. I find that many Christians pick and choose the sins they can tolerate and those they can't. As a young Baptist, I was taught that there was no degree on sin, that God hates all sin the same. Of course murder is far worse to most of us than the man who over eats, or has the occassional drink, or even the man who commits adultry. The sins that get the most attention are usually those which involve sex. Here are the seven deadly sins:

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work

One has to wonder if "church discipline" applies to all of these, or just those we are most uncomfortable with.

If the offender is a person holding an office in the church, then they do have to be removed from office. This would be a form of discipline.

VERY well said, mean!!!

I totally agree!! Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by bama1chas:
If the offender is a person holding an office in the church, then they do have to be removed from office. This would be a form of discipline.

It should NOT matter who the offender is, they deserve counselling if they are in office just as those who aren't in office.

I still think DISCIPLINE is the WRONG word when dealing with Our Heavenly Father.

I agree "kindred" you should give them counselling but they still have to be removed from their positon for a period of time until they prove worthy again.

quote:

Originally posted by bama1chas:
I agree "kindred" you should give them counselling but they still have to be removed from their positon for a period of time until they prove worthy again.

Yes, you are correct, I guess I didn't think that one all the way through. No one should hold office in a Church that is under-going counselling.

Thanks for bringing that point back to light.

Okay good point bama1chas, so who gets removed. The pastor for sexual sin or a pastor for lying or a pastor for secret lust. How about the Sunday School teacher who gossips he or she, do you remove them for their sin for a period of time? and which sins do you remove for? How about speeding or not wearing your seat belt. Do these sins count? Where to do start and where to you end when you start removing people in leadership position. I guess my question is everyone sins so who gets punished?

Yes, you're right, everyone sins. Even as Christians, we all still sin. But when we're saved, we're given the gift of repentance. The sin that gets disciplined (in a nutshell) is the open, unrepentant sin that brings shame and reproach on the Name of Christ. It could be public drunkenness, sexual sin, etc., anything that shows open rebellion and disregard for the Lord Jesus Christ and His Name. That's what we're about, His glory! Anyway, there is a process for dealing with sin in the Church. It's not just you sin and you're immediately kicked out to the curb. It often takes a long process and begins in private. Being put out of the church is the last resort after all other options and attempts at counseling and bringing the brother (or sister) back have failed. And it is does in LOVE. Yes, our Heavenly Father DISCIPLINES (see Hebrews 12:5, 7, and 11), just as any Father does the children He loves. This is one reason our churches are so weak and anemic, the lack of discipline. Why would the Lord bless and grow His church when there is so much in it that dishonors Him? Church discipline is one way He keeps His bride pure. And don't just take my word for it, read the Word for yourself. Read Acts chapter 5--that should blow out our little box we like to put God in. Also read Matthew 18:15-20 for more of Jesus' teaching on church discipline. One of our problems is we like to make God be just a little bit bigger version of ourselves and bring Him down to our level. He is so much bigger and completey "other" than us, we need to dig in Word and see what He says about Himself rather than what we THINK He ought to be like.

Very good mommyofthree. I think ngt could have figured this out but your answer should make it clear. Yes, if a Sunday School teacher is gossiping to the point that it is causing conflict or is hurting others he/she should be counselled and if necessary removed from teaching. We as Christians are supposed to promote harmony where others would want what we have and maybe to to church with us. We are not to cause problems and drive people away.

What church is doing this "discipline" ? I haven't heard about this.

excelman, this post was created by a Post in the News where the Pastor of a Church called 911 to an elderly woman to have her cuffed/removed from the Church.

So this post was made for general discussion, maybe even about our local Churches?

Here are some situations I might feel that a church is justified in putting someone out. They have continued or frequent sexual relationships outside of marriage that is known to others. A man or woman is found to be running around on their marriage partner. A person’s language is very filthy and very derogatory toward God, or very much brings dishonor on the name of Christ. I’m not talking about a slip of the tongue, but rather a continued character trait. A person who makes a habit of abusing another in a way that is unprovoked and totally out of character of a Christian. A person who slanders another person or who thrives on running down others. A person who habitually causes havoc in church or is unruly without just cause. A thief. A person who is a habitual liar. A person who practices witchcraft. A person who is intent on perverting the gospel, such as actively preaching that you can be saved without faith in Christ, or that one religion is as good as another. A man that refuses to work and support his family. A person that makes a habit of dressing so provocatively, or so near nudity that it dishonors the name of Christ. A person that writes bad checks intentionally and habitually, or that continually borrows without paying back. If any of these things are practiced in a manner that indicates a person has no intention of change, or when they are approached they continue in these things without change, then they should be put out in my opinion.

If you think I’m hard, then consider Ananias and his wife, who fell over dead after lying about their contribution to the church. What they gave was up to them, but lying about what they gave was not tolerated. See Acts 5:1 – 10.

God’s grace saves us, but it does not give us a license to sin. Anyone who sins willfully and continually without repentance, on matters that are clear to those observing, should be approached and given the opportunity to repent. If they are unwilling to repent and change, then they should be put out of the church.

Sinners might be welcome that do these things, because they do not carry the name of Christ. Those who are born again will desire to serve our Lord.

A rapist or child molester should be shot and then put out. Just kidding, but they should be put out. A child molester should never get out of prison unless he is in a body bag.

We are always going to have a battle within ourselves as we try and crucify our selfish nature, and walk in the spirit. We should not look for perfection, but some things that are practiced by those in the world should not be practiced by Christians.

borrowed my post from another recent thread:

i believe this is the scripture used as instruction for 'banning from church'....

Matthew 18:15-17
"If your brother sins against you, go and reprove him in private; if he listens, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a publican."

i would hope they are doing this AFTER they have tried all these ways to get the person to repent and refrain from very public unGodly behavior.........

we are surely ALL sinners, most trying to live in a Godly manner..i think they are speaking of the person who blatantly lives in public sin, and refuses to change...
personally, i would wonder about that person's purpose in continuing to attend worship services, when they are so obviously ignoring the teachings of the One being worshipped...

quote:

Originally posted by what4:
Here are some situations I might feel that a church is justified in putting someone out.

What? No mention of a woman trying to assert herself as an equal?

What happens when a woman steps out of her "place"? How should she be punished?

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by what4:
Here are some situations I might feel that a church is justified in putting someone out.

What? No mention of a woman trying to assert herself as an equal?

What happens when a woman steps out of her "place"? How should she be punished?

That issue is between the husband and the wife. If the man is perfect and submits to God in all things, then he might feel justified in being very demanding with his wife to accept his authority in all things. But if that man expects mercy then he should show mercy. If the man expects God to show Him patience, then he should show his wife patience. If the woman continues to be divisive in all aspects and refuses to consider the husband as the leader, then the man can go to the church if he feels the need. Good council in the church can help. But this is the man’s ultimate responsibility because he is the leader of his own home, and it is not the church’s responsibility to do the man’s job for him. The church should only be involved when asked. The primary one to be sought out in this situation for help is God. God can do the impossible.

The church is not out to force people to live according to God’s word. The church is just expecting people who profess to know Jesus as Savior, to bear the fruits of their testimony. The church is not a social club, but it is the living body of Christ. Something that is foreign to the body, that works contrary to the design of the body, is attacked by the body's defense mechanism. Those who profess to know Christ, but don't follow Him, should expect to be separated from Christ’s body.