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A church, comprised of citizens of the community, decides to voice their view about alchohol sales, so what? Do we all not have the right to voice our opinions? Take PBA, please, there is a piece of work for you but he/she has the same right as you and I do to be vocally wrong.

How you vote, and for whom, is your business. Like it or not I will just have to learn to live with life's little inequities, including the majorities choice of President. C' est la Guerre.
I definitely agree with Logical here. Smiler

I share some of those same viewpoints.

I also heard through a friend that goes to a big church around here, that in the 2004 elections, that there was actual sermon-talk of who to vote for, and stuff like that.

Not saying anything against freedom of speech, but when you are on the pulpit, you should be sharing the word of God, not who you think would make a good politician. That's my opinion of course, but there are far too many people around here that take the words of their pastors/ministers/preachers as truth, and don't even take the time to look further. And ALL of this comment is coming from a Christian herself.

I also have a friend, that's family member is a minister/preacher/priest(yes, being vague here on purpose) that told us both that he once accepted money to spread the "word" about the "good" of certain political stances, and laws. PAID! So, next time you hear your minister/preacher/priest speak on politics, at least keep that in the back of your mind and do some research yourself. In the end, a son of God that spreads the word is also Human too, and not perfect or always correct.

I say when it comes to Politicians/Political issues, leave them out of the church sermons. People should be able to decide for themselves, not be led into what they will and will not vote for. *shakes head*

Yea, I might get slammed for this, but I won't argue it. That's the difference between myself and a lot of others. I don't argue my points, I leave my opinion and if it's liked, good, if it's not, that's good too. Smiler

~Amanda
quote:
Originally posted by *~*Manda*~*:
I definitely agree with Logical here. Smiler

I share some of those same viewpoints.

I also heard through a friend that goes to a big church around here, that in the 2004 elections, that there was actual sermon-talk of who to vote for, and stuff like that.

Not saying anything against freedom of speech, but when you are on the pulpit, you should be sharing the word of God, not who you think would make a good politician. That's my opinion of course, but there are far too many people around here that take the words of their pastors/ministers/preachers as truth, and don't even take the time to look further. And ALL of this comment is coming from a Christian herself.

I also have a friend, that's family member is a minister/preacher/priest(yes, being vague here on purpose) that told us both that he once accepted money to spread the "word" about the "good" of certain political stances, and laws. PAID! So, next time you hear your minister/preacher/priest speak on politics, at least keep that in the back of your mind and do some research yourself. In the end, a son of God that spreads the word is also Human too, and not perfect or always correct.

I say when it comes to Politicians/Political issues, leave them out of the church sermons. People should be able to decide for themselves, not be led into what they will and will not vote for. *shakes head*

Yea, I might get slammed for this, but I won't argue it. That's the difference between myself and a lot of others. I don't argue my points, I leave my opinion and if it's liked, good, if it's not, that's good too. Smiler

~Amanda



Yeah, what she said!!! Smiler

One "Preacher" preached a sermon about the lottery vote (SIN SIN SIN) and his Church was given a donation from "another" State because of that sermon.
Anybody with walking around sense should be able to see by now just what these churches and their republican surrogate pastors have brought this country. THE WORSE PRESIDENT THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER HAD!.
If these simple-minded people allow their preacher to influence their vote for ANYBODY, they will have shown theirselves to be just plane morons.
Folks, our country is in real trouble, and I lay much of the blame for it on the door of these churches where they taught the gospel of Republicanism. We better wake up, and look for competency in our leaders, not whether or not they use some clocked vernacular and promise money to go to the churches.
We better get over the single issues of Gay Rights, Abortion, and "family values". (Note the quotes- there for a reason)
Excelman says:

[QUOTE] What you are saying is that John Edwards (Southern Baptist), Hillary Clinton (Methodist) and Barack Obama (Church of Christ), Joe Biden (Catholic) , John McCain (Southern Baptist) Mit Romney (Mormon), I don't know what the affiliation of the rest is, are:

Obma is not a member of the Church of Christ; he is a member of the United Church of Christ, a very liberal denomination that is very different from the Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ gets into all kind of political involvement. For example, Barry Lynn, the Executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ.

Here is more info on the UCoC:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=aboutau
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Excelman says:

[QUOTE] What you are saying is that John Edwards (Southern Baptist), Hillary Clinton (Methodist) and Barack Obama (Church of Christ), Joe Biden (Catholic) , John McCain (Southern Baptist) Mit Romney (Mormon), I don't know what the affiliation of the rest is, are:

Obma is not a member of the Church of Christ; he is a member of the United Church of Christ, a very liberal denomination that is very different from the Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ gets into all kind of political involvement. For example, Barry Lynn, the Executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ.

Here is more info on the UCoC:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=aboutau



Then his "Claim" to being Catholic is untrue too???
Last edited by Kindred
Actually, excelman, since most members of the Church are at least as intelligent as you or myself, they (more than anyone else) realize that just saying you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. They understand that many politicians claim a church affiliation to garner votes. I think non-Christians fear that Christians are fooled by this but they are mistaken.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Actually, excelman, since most members of the Church are at least as intelligent as you or myself, they (more than anyone else) realize that just saying you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. They understand that many politicians claim a church affiliation to garner votes. I think non-Christians fear that Christians are fooled by this but they are mistaken.


Joy, sorry, I didn't mean to imply in my rant that all Christians are simple minded. After going back and reading what I had said, I realize that after a couple of stiff gin and tonics, my communication skills may not be as good as they should.
What I did mean to say is that there ARE people (I know a lot of them) who believe whatever they are told from the pulpit, and who think preachers are special. I'll give one example from history, but you know the ones I am referring to. When the 3 civil rights boys were killed in Philidelphia, Miss and buried in a dam, one of the killers was a preacher. When he was put on trial, the jury was hung. 11 guilty, one not guilty.
The one person who hung the jury was a lady who later stated that she knew he had killed those kids, but just couldn't bring herself to vote against a preacher.
I chose that bit of history so as not to offend anyone who may read these forums.

These types of people are just simple minded. They tend to follow leaders who are able to exert some extrodinary control over them . Jim Jones, David Korisch , and this "profit " that is now on trial for statutory rape.
Every one here knows the type of person I am speaking of, because they are legon.

At any rate, it is my belief, that certain denominations have allowed , if not encouraged, their preachers to preach either openly, or in round-about ways , politics, and those that have done so have helped to bring us to the place our country finds itself in now. They have encouraged ideology over competence and because of that, I fear my great grandchildren will be paying for the mistakes of this president and his rubber stamp congress for 6 years.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Excelman says:

[QUOTE] What you are saying is that John Edwards (Southern Baptist), Hillary Clinton (Methodist) and Barack Obama (Church of Christ), Joe Biden (Catholic) , John McCain (Southern Baptist) Mit Romney (Mormon), I don't know what the affiliation of the rest is, are:

Obma is not a member of the Church of Christ; he is a member of the United Church of Christ, a very liberal denomination that is very different from the Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ gets into all kind of political involvement. For example, Barry Lynn, the Executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ.

Here is more info on the UCoC:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=aboutau


Sorry if I offended your C of C sensabilities. I really don't care which branch of the COC he is.

Still, the point remains:
Bill Gray says "Pray for America and for the 2008 election -- for the prospects at this moment look dismal. There is no true Pro-God, Pro-Life, Pro-Family candidate -- Democrat or Republican -- that I can see at this time. I pray that God will raise up a good man to fill this job."

The prefix "pro" means for. The reverse of "for" is against (anti), therefore what he has said in that statement is that all the candidates are anti-God (against God), anti-life (against life, therefore pro-death), and anti-family (against families).

The type of statement he made is designed to push an agenda by use of religious talk and emotions, and disregard rational means. In fact , I don't care what church he is a member of, that type of statement is just a lie.
Local damage is done by this schizo, hypocritical, moralistic yet immoral, approach to government. First, there are many well meaning sincere Christian people in this area who go to our many churches. They are honest and true believers. The problem is there are a whole bunch of people who are posers and use religion, (I almost said Christianity, but it's not that, because true Christianity is a good thing and true by definition) again, they use religion. Socially, business-wise, and politically, religion is used to network, vote-get, and most damagingly, cover stuff that is anything but Christ-like.

A glaring example locally is the demagogic use of "alcohol" issues and the goofy mix of some progress with inexplicable decisions that are backwards and self-defeating. This whole Ent. Dist. deal with the Copperhead Lounge vote is telling. A City Council votes unanimously to zone and legalize a district for alcohol establishments, among other things. It is not entirely for these type places, but it is for these type places. They make it a permitted use by right. This is critical in zoning considerations. In a real way, they already approved Mr. Carbine's application when they voted in the district to begin with. To deny it now, under these circumstances, is arbitrary and capricious.

In a sense, it is the City Council itself who violated it's own ordinance, undoubtedly with the blessing (pardon the pun) of the Mayor of Florence. As one of the other posters here keeps saying, Mr. Howard is reflecting his religious moralizing self-righteousness and he and the Mayor go to the same church. It takes no "Genius", Evil or otherwise, to see the connection and influence, and to deny it is silly. It is fact. The vote against Mr. Carbine is typical demagoguery of the petty local kind. Now they have a cover on alcohol. They can point to that and say "aren't we great and moral as we protect our churches from evil alcohol and such." This the same bunch who voted in the district to begin with. If they are so concerned about what they now claim why did they vote like that to begin with? Were they asleep? To do it this way now is horrible public policy and is a lot more immoral than any alcohol license.

What was done to a citizen businessman is unethical and dirty and wrong. That trumps alcohol as a real moral issue to me. It is shabby and it is incompetent and immoral government . It is also typical of this administration and city council by and large. The treatment of Jimmy Carbine is cowardly and sneaky and weasily. If people knew the truth they would know it is standard operating procedure. Done by all these "fine Christian people" no less.

If they are trying to send a message they did. It is a terrible message to our citizens that once again city officials can not be trusted in spite of all the religious moralistic posturing. It is phony and hypocritical and Jesus Christ Himself warned of this type pharisitical doings. It was from these types Christ had His sternest warnings and rebukes. He is trying to tell us something. And it ain't about alcohol.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Excelman says:

[QUOTE] What you are saying is that John Edwards (Southern Baptist), Hillary Clinton (Methodist) and Barack Obama (Church of Christ), Joe Biden (Catholic) , John McCain (Southern Baptist) Mit Romney (Mormon), I don't know what the affiliation of the rest is, are:

Obma is not a member of the Church of Christ; he is a member of the United Church of Christ, a very liberal denomination that is very different from the Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ gets into all kind of political involvement. For example, Barry Lynn, the Executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ.

Here is more info on the UCoC:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=aboutau



Then his "Claim" to being Catholic is untrue too???
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
excelman, that's okay. Thanks for clarifying. I am sure there are still some gullible people left who take what a mere man or woman says as the gospel. I just don't think there are enough to make a difference at election time. I'm also not certain they could find their way to a polling place. Wink


Joy, I sure hope you are correct in that there are not enough to make a difference. I believe you are wrong on that point, but I hope you are correct. This Bill Gray, by saying what he said, has shown that that bunch has not gone away yet.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Excelman says:

[QUOTE] What you are saying is that John Edwards (Southern Baptist), Hillary Clinton (Methodist) and Barack Obama (Church of Christ), Joe Biden (Catholic) , John McCain (Southern Baptist) Mit Romney (Mormon), I don't know what the affiliation of the rest is, are:

Obma is not a member of the Church of Christ; he is a member of the United Church of Christ, a very liberal denomination that is very different from the Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ gets into all kind of political involvement. For example, Barry Lynn, the Executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ.

Here is more info on the UCoC:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=aboutau


Just FYI the United Church of Christ: They have a strong interest in homosexual pulpit ministers and marriage.

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