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Civics lesson

A astepper55Everybody Knows My Name
We are about to have a hard civics lesson handed down to us by President Obama. While most Americans don't think past the weekend when it comes to voting, the long-lasting legacy of his liberal (keep in mind his "we are going to fundamentally change America" quote) policies are about to be manifested in his next selection for The Supreme Court. With Sotomayor, he was probably wanting to stay within some imagined "boundaries" in order to seem a
bit moderate but, with his political boldness increasing daily, on this next one expect him to pull out all the stops. These people will be making decisions that will affect you, your kids, and grandchildren for decades. I voted for Bush, not because I liked him, or thought he was the "sharpest knife in the drawer", but because I thought he would have the opportunity to nominate a couple of non-activists for the court. Unfortunately, it didn't happen and now we have the pendulum swinging wildly to the left. This is where Obama's election will have the greatest, and farthest-reaching, effect on our country. Pay close attention, class, for it could be a hard lesson.
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A ArtVandelayFamiliar Face
I think you will be surprised. I also think that Obama is alot more moderate than alot of you make him out to be. This is evident, based on the anger and disappointment in him from the true lefties.

A true lefty would have gotten in office, pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, actually closed gitmo, repealed don't ask, don't tell, and stood firm on a public healthcare option.

Yes, Obama has spent, but its not exactly easy to say what should have happened (or not happened) during the recession. Are we forgetting that bush initially nationalized 7 major banks, while simultaneously introducing the 700 Billion dollar TARP plan. Are we forgetting that the man that you admitted to voting for doubled the nations debt, from 5.73 TRILLION to 10.7 TRILLION dollars!

I think you will be the one surprised, when he nominates a moderate. Will he maintain 4 liberal votes? Probably. Will he nominate an activist? I bet no.
CD crash davisEverybody Knows My Name
And obama is making Bush look like a tightwad. Yes I voted for Bush. Who would you expect me to vote for? john scary? More often than not I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. It's like, do I want to have indigestion or cancer? I'll take indigestion.

obama is standing right on the left field foul line but true, there are many up in the stands behind 3rd base.

As far as the Court, I think he will follow his health care strategy. Realizing that he will be a one term president, he will continue to attempt to do as much damage to America as he can. After all, it's almost impossible to repeal legislation and you can't fire a Supreme Court judge. His acts will dog America long after he is gone.
David L.David L.Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by astepper55:
We are about to have a hard civics lesson handed down to us by President Obama. While most Americans don't think past the weekend when it comes to voting, the long-lasting legacy of his liberal (keep in mind his "we are going to fundamentally change America" quote) policies are about to be manifested in his next selection for The Supreme Court. With Sotomayor, he was probably wanting to stay within some imagined "boundaries" in order to seem a
bit moderate but, with his political boldness increasing daily, on this next one expect him to pull out all the stops. These people will be making decisions that will affect you, your kids, and grandchildren for decades. I voted for Bush, not because I liked him, or thought he was the "sharpest knife in the drawer", but because I thought he would have the opportunity to nominate a couple of non-activists for the court. Unfortunately, it didn't happen and now we have the pendulum swinging wildly to the left. This is where Obama's election will have the greatest, and farthest-reaching, effect on our country. Pay close attention, class, for it could be a hard lesson.


On the contrary, I think it will be a great lesson.
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by crash davis:
And obama is making Bush look like a tightwad. Yes I voted for Bush. Who would you expect me to vote for? john scary? More often than not I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. It's like, do I want to have indigestion or cancer? I'll take indigestion.

obama is standing right on the left field foul line but true, there are many up in the stands behind 3rd base.

As far as the Court, I think he will follow his health care strategy. Realizing that he will be a one term president, he will continue to attempt to do as much damage to America as he can. After all, it's almost impossible to repeal legislation and you can't fire a Supreme Court judge. His acts will dog America long after he is gone.

If you had really been serious about the fiscal condition of our nation, you would have voted for Gore in 2000 when our economy was great, and we were running a surplus in our national budget with which we could have used to pay down that debt.
Voting for Bush either time was the single worse thing anyone who cares about our country could have done.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by crash davis:
And obama is making Bush look like a tightwad. Yes I voted for Bush. Who would you expect me to vote for? john scary? More often than not I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. It's like, do I want to have indigestion or cancer? I'll take indigestion.

obama is standing right on the left field foul line but true, there are many up in the stands behind 3rd base.

As far as the Court, I think he will follow his health care strategy. Realizing that he will be a one term president, he will continue to attempt to do as much damage to America as he can. After all, it's almost impossible to repeal legislation and you can't fire a Supreme Court judge. His acts will dog America long after he is gone.

If you had really been serious about the fiscal condition of our nation, you would have voted for Gore in 2000 when our economy was great, and we were running a surplus in our national budget with which we could have used to pay down that debt.
Voting for Bush either time was the single worse thing anyone who cares about our country could have done.


That surplus was the social security surplus placed back on the books by Clinton, an accounting trick. This was mentioned by about a dozen posters in this forum. Either, you haven't been paying attention, or ignore facts that don't suit your POV.
A ArtVandelayFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by ArtVandelay:

...A true lefty would have gotten in office, pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, actually closed gitmo...


Well, Ron Paul would have done this too...but not because he is a lefty...but because he is a Constitutionalist.


I like Ron Paul. Its sad that he will likely never be in serious contention for president.
midknightridermidknightriderHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
If you had really been serious about the fiscal condition of our nation, you would have voted for Gore in 2000 when our economy was great, and we were running a surplus in our national budget with which we could have used to pay down that debt.
Voting for Bush either time was the single worse thing anyone who cares about our country could have done.


We're $12 trillion in debt. Fifty years ago we we owed less than $260 billion. Actually the worst thing we could have done was vote for business as usual...and we did.
A ArtVandelayFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by midknightrider:

We're $12 trillion in debt. Fifty years ago we we owed less than $260 billion. Actually the worst thing we could have done was vote for business as usual...and we did.


Your numbers are misleading. You should have also disclosed the fact that the deficit as a percentage of GDP was 94% in 1950. In 2009, our 12 Trillion in debt was 86% of GDP, so an argument could be made to day that the deficit is relatively smaller than it was in 1950. Not saying that 12 Trillion is great, but inflation and economic growth play a huge role in your misleading statistic.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/...2010/assets/hist.pdf
Pg 127 - 128
midknightridermidknightriderHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by ArtVandelay:
quote:
Originally posted by midknightrider:

We're $12 trillion in debt. Fifty years ago we we owed less than $260 billion. Actually the worst thing we could have done was vote for business as usual...and we did.


Your numbers are misleading. You should have also disclosed the fact that the deficit as a percentage of GDP was 94% in 1950. In 2009, our 12 Trillion in debt was 86% of GDP, so an argument could be made to day that the deficit is relatively smaller than it was in 1950. Not saying that 12 Trillion is great, but inflation and economic growth play a huge role in your misleading statistic.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/...2010/assets/hist.pdf
Pg 127 - 128


A few points...
First, I said fifty years ago, which would be 1960, not 1950. Secondly there is quite a bit of difference between deficit and debt. Assuming you meant the public debt was 94% of GDP in 1950, our GDP was $294 billion, our debt was $257 billion, about 88%. By 1960 our GDP was $526 billion, our debt was $286 billion, about 55%. Now fast-forward fifty years to 2009, our GDP was $14258 billion, our debt was $11875 billion, about 84%.

Since we're talking in percentages, in the ten years between 1950 and 1960, our GDP went up about 80%. Our debt went up about 10%.In the fifty years since, our GDP is up about 2600%. Our debt has gone up over 4000%.

10 years-10%...50 years-4000%. Ah, fun with numbers. Politicians are good at it. So, whatever spin is put on the numbers, it's not good.

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