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quote:Originally posted by Flor De Lis:
"and the Bible thumping southern Christians came in near the bottom of the class in awareness of their own faith. So instead of impugning Atheists, maybe you should ask them for answers."
....Wrong. The questions in the quiz only partially cover Christianity. Just because someone does not know what the main religion in Indonesia is, does not make them unaware of their own faith. I realize you are just trying to get attention and stir up an argument so I just thought I would clear things up.
Just thought I'd clear things up.
quote:Did Hitchens make a death bed confession
quote:Originally posted by Road Puppy:quote:Originally posted by Flor De Lis:
"and the Bible thumping southern Christians came in near the bottom of the class in awareness of their own faith. So instead of impugning Atheists, maybe you should ask them for answers."
....Wrong. The questions in the quiz only partially cover Christianity. Just because someone does not know what the main religion in Indonesia is, does not make them unaware of their own faith. I realize you are just trying to get attention and stir up an argument so I just thought I would clear things up.
A-HEM.
"....and the Bible thumping southern Christians came in near the bottom of the class in awareness of their own faith.
Again...Sing it with me:
"....and the [b]Bible thumping southern Christians
Their Own Faith.
quote:Originally posted by Flor De Lis:
"and the Bible thumping southern Christians came in near the bottom of the class in awareness of their own faith. So instead of impugning Atheists, maybe you should ask them for answers."
....Wrong. The questions in the quiz only partially cover Christianity. Just because someone does not know what the main religion in Indonesia is, does not make them unaware of their own faith. I realize you are just trying to get attention and stir up an argument so I just thought I would clear things up.
quote:Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
I took the ten question quiz mentioned in the website. Got them all, natch.
I've heard more than one atheist say that he/she became an atheist after reading the Bible. It starts with a ridiculous fiction, ends the same, and has a whole bunch of nonsense in between.
We should be informed about that which we discuss.
nsns
quote:Originally posted by Netracer41:quote:Originally posted by Flor De Lis:
"and the Bible thumping southern Christians came in near the bottom of the class in awareness of their own faith. So instead of impugning Atheists, maybe you should ask them for answers."
....Wrong. The questions in the quiz only partially cover Christianity. Just because someone does not know what the main religion in Indonesia is, does not make them unaware of their own faith. I realize you are just trying to get attention and stir up an argument so I just thought I would clear things up.
No, I wasn't trying to stir up anything but thought. Even if these questions aren't Bible centric it clearly shows the intellectual superiority of questioning people. How can a person claim allegiance to one religion if they no nothing or very little about the many other faiths? Also, evangelical Christians got less than 50% correct in the questions that were biblical. And the majority of Christians couldn't explain Martin Luther's role in founding protestantism. This illustrates a point I have made for a long time. Most religious people choose a religion based on their heritage, or some charismatic person's message and they never investigate all the alternatives and options. It is like taking a blue crayon out of a box of 64, then proclaiming all crayons are blue. I am not anti anything except ignorance. Go to your local University and take courses on the World religions, and take a comparative religion course. At least be informed. Christianity is not even the majority world religion. The other 5 billion people on this Planet can't all be wrong.
quote:Originally posted by Loki:
Awesome B50m, Whatever cranks your tractor bro!
What other religions have you studied and what was your take on them? Why do you believe your religion to be the right one? If you believe yours is right, do you necessarily believe theirs to be wrong? If so, why or why not?
quote:Originally posted by b50m:quote:Originally posted by Loki:
Awesome B50m, Whatever cranks your tractor bro!
What other religions have you studied and what was your take on them? Why do you believe your religion to be the right one? If you believe yours is right, do you necessarily believe theirs to be wrong? If so, why or why not?
Let's see, Jewish, Baha'i, Wiccan, various flavors of Christianity.
I don't know that mine is the 'right' one, I think that there are overlaps in many of them. I go with one Supreme Creator, The Ten Commandments, the Golden Rule, and an afterlife or spirit world.
As long as the other faiths follow a general message of good will, helpfulness, caring, no freaky morality rules or honor killings, I'm good.
The Baha'i is the most interesting, it takes the Jewish and Christian faith and blends them along with Islam.
'''''''Throughout history, God has revealed Himself to humanity through a series of divine Messengers, whose teachings guide and educate us and provide the basis for the advancement of human society. These Messengers have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Their religions come from the same Source and are in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.
Bahá’u’lláh, the latest of these Messengers, brought new spiritual and social teachings for our time. His essential message is of unity. He taught the oneness of God, the oneness of the human family, and the oneness of religion.
Bahá'u'lláh said, “The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens,” and that, as foretold in all the sacred scriptures of the past, now is the time for humanity to live in unity.
Founded more than a century and a half ago, the Bahá'í Faith has spread around the globe. Members of the Bahá'í Faith live in more than 100,000 localities and come from nearly every nation, ethnic group, culture, profession, and social or economic background.
Bahá'ís believe the crucial need facing humanity is to find a unifying vision of the nature and purpose of life and of the future of society. Such a vision unfolds in the writings of Bahá'u'lláh. '''''''
quote:who WANT TO BELONG, and it doesn't matter to what, or whether they know anything about the group, as long as they feel like a part of something.
quote:Originally posted by b50m:quote:who WANT TO BELONG, and it doesn't matter to what, or whether they know anything about the group, as long as they feel like a part of something.
Ahhh, yes, peer pressure and loneliness. Two of the worst reasons for doing something.
quote:Originally posted by O No!:
"clearly shows the intellectual superiority of questioning people."
OK, as someone with a fairly high IQ, I DID question. For many years I was an athiest. Now I am a strong Christian. Did my IQ drop? I don't think so. What do you think of those who question, but come to different conclusions than you do?
As far as people not knowing much about their religion, why should that be a surprise? There are a lot of Republicans and Democrats who don't know much about the party they belong to. There are a lot of people who WANT TO BELONG, and it doesn't matter to what, or whether they know anything about the group, as long as they feel like a part of something.
quote:Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Kraven,
It's not 50-50.
I'm 99% certain to be right. In recorded human history there have been thousands of gods. H.L. Mencken listed the 3000 most obvious ones. Let's say that's all there ever were.
Your chance of being right is 1 in 3000 on that basis alone.
But I have a better reason for claiming the 99%. I say there is no evidence for god, and none has ever been demonstrated. It's only out of generosity and philosophical procedure that I do not claim 100% certainty.
Remember, you're an atheist with regard to all those other 2999 gods. I just go one god farther.
nsns
quote:OK, as someone with a fairly high IQ, I DID question. For many years I was an athiest. Now I am a strong Christian. Did my IQ drop? I don't think so. What do you think of those who question, but come to different conclusions than you do?
quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
My dear Hod,
First, get your physics straight with regard to the Strong Nuclear Force. I saw straightaway that your explanation of it was not quite correct, so I submit this entry-level information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force
Now, let's get metaphysical, metaphysical, let's get metaphysical...LET'S get metaphysical... Let me hear your mind talk... your mind talk...
(ancient reference, forgive me)
Astrophysics is only a passing interest of mine, since I have only a hint of the math needed to understand and explore it. I write as nothing more than an interested layman.
From what I've read and seen, however, the values of the Universe are not necessarily the only ones we could enjoy. Previous or subsequent or parallel universes might have different physical values.
The values and constants of OUR universe admit life as we know it. Other universes, and we must admit the possibility of them, with different values might have different forms of life.
Second issue. Perhaps the values of the universe are what they must be. Einstein demonstrated that matter and energy are algebraic expressions of each other. In a universe where matter and energy must both exist, then certain values just settle out to what they are.
Imagine I take a beaker with 1000 cc of water, and pour it into another beaker. It reads 1000 cc. It is to be expected. This is a value of our universe.
In another universe, when I pour out the beaker, perhaps it fills the second beaker to 1001 cc of water. And when I refill the first beaker, it reads 1002 cc.
In that alternative universe, this is to be expected. The creatures of that universe expect it to happen, their mathematics is derived to expect it, the values of their universe demand it.
The Anthropic Principle you submit is weak on several levels. One of them is, suppose you lived 100 years ago and knew nothing of it. Many people did, and made similar claims of the divine nature of the universe.
Just as 1000 cc of water is still 1000 cc of water in another container, your 0.07% of energy (generously granted by yours truly) is what must happen in a universe with physical laws we observe. You could say that the value of 0.07% is variable, but not in this universe. It must be that value for the universe to exist, and the universe exists. And the universe existed before that value was established. That value settled out shortly after the Big Bang.
We can imagine it being different, but we can also imagine the value of gravity being different. They are not, however.
Enjoying the conversation, but beware the Anthropic Principle, it has been thoroughly rejected by all the best scientists.
nsns
quote:nsns,
OK, I'll fine some evidence that you might think about for god, but that one god
maybe one god further than you want to go.
quote:Originally posted by House of David:quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
My dear Hod,
First, get your physics straight with regard to the Strong Nuclear Force. I saw straightaway that your explanation of it was not quite correct, so I submit this entry-level information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force
Now, let's get metaphysical, metaphysical, let's get metaphysical...LET'S get metaphysical... Let me hear your mind talk... your mind talk...
(ancient reference, forgive me)
Astrophysics is only a passing interest of mine, since I have only a hint of the math needed to understand and explore it. I write as nothing more than an interested layman.
From what I've read and seen, however, the values of the Universe are not necessarily the only ones we could enjoy. Previous or subsequent or parallel universes might have different physical values.
The values and constants of OUR universe admit life as we know it. Other universes, and we must admit the possibility of them, with different values might have different forms of life.
Second issue. Perhaps the values of the universe are what they must be. Einstein demonstrated that matter and energy are algebraic expressions of each other. In a universe where matter and energy must both exist, then certain values just settle out to what they are.
Imagine I take a beaker with 1000 cc of water, and pour it into another beaker. It reads 1000 cc. It is to be expected. This is a value of our universe.
In another universe, when I pour out the beaker, perhaps it fills the second beaker to 1001 cc of water. And when I refill the first beaker, it reads 1002 cc.
In that alternative universe, this is to be expected. The creatures of that universe expect it to happen, their mathematics is derived to expect it, the values of their universe demand it.
The Anthropic Principle you submit is weak on several levels. One of them is, suppose you lived 100 years ago and knew nothing of it. Many people did, and made similar claims of the divine nature of the universe.
Just as 1000 cc of water is still 1000 cc of water in another container, your 0.07% of energy (generously granted by yours truly) is what must happen in a universe with physical laws we observe. You could say that the value of 0.07% is variable, but not in this universe. It must be that value for the universe to exist, and the universe exists. And the universe existed before that value was established. That value settled out shortly after the Big Bang.
We can imagine it being different, but we can also imagine the value of gravity being different. They are not, however.
Enjoying the conversation, but beware the Anthropic Principle, it has been thoroughly rejected by all the best scientists.
nsns
NSNS,
I posted it to start a discussion, and hear other people's ideas....
Your post is interesting with good points, it's worth I would like to investigate it further...
seems like a fun topic.
That you also for putting that Olivia Newton john song in my head!
quote:Originally posted by Kraven:
CNN is just being CNN, THE BILL GRAY OF T.V. NEWS. It means nothing.
Did you know there no atheist muslim.
quote:Friends of facts, BEWARE: Wikipedia should never be used to get ANY facts straight. At my University any citation of Wikipedia earns an automatic "F". Wikipedia is for people who do not have the education to look up credible, peer reviewed sources. It may be O.K. for drunks to settle bets, but people of serious intellect don't use it.
quote:Originally posted by House of David:quote:Originally posted by Kraven:
CNN is just being CNN, THE BILL GRAY OF T.V. NEWS. It means nothing.
Did you know there no atheist muslim.
Kraven,
I didn't know that. Why not?
