Skip to main content

On another thread about Glenn Beck, I mentioned how he has researched many of King Barry Obama's nearest and dearest and has come to the conclusion that he, and they, are communist sympathizers. And not just that, they are seemingly following the Communist Manifesto lock step with every decision they make. I was called an idiot by someone.... real classy poster I tell ya!!! LMAO!!
So I figured I'd post on a new thread what I posted for them on that other one.

These are ten major established beliefs of communism

1.Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2.A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3.Abolition of all right of inheritance.

4.Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5.Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6.Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7.Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8.Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9.Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.

10.Free education for all children in public schools.

Now... is it really "ignorant" to assume that this administration agrees with most of these points?? Give those a read, and study deeper about communism yourself, then answer the poll question.

Here's to a quality, ADULT, debate on the issue........ WOAH!!!! Sorry... a pig just flew right by my dang window!!!! LOL
"Remember, it's not a lie if YOU believe it" George Costanza
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Except for number 10, which has been going on for generations (and I have to ask, do you think it's a BAD thing?!), none of them apply. I can see where a far right winger MIGHT believe that numbers 2 and 5 are a possibility, but how in the world could anyone think the rest apply?

And by the way, BeternU is a VERY intelligent and informed man. While I don't always agree with him, he has my UTMOST respect.
There are things leaning that way that are disturbing. I think Obama is more of a fascist right now, possibly moving to communism.
We already have eminent domain, progressive taxing, credit being doled out by the whims of the federal reserve, take over of some auto industries and banks, and favoritism of the government to 'green job' manufacturers.

And that free education isn't free by the time you buy all the supplies.
By no means do I think King Barry and his crew are the first to implement these ideas... just the latest, and the hardest workers at it that we have seen in a few decades.

O No!
my respect is only earned, and you don't do that by name calling... I had to learn that about myself, so I do my best to refrain from it. He needs to learn the same. If someone disagrees, fine, but state your disagreement and end it there... and also, I'm not in my 11th grade typing class anymore, so I don't type 70 wpm with no errors whilest typing on an internet blog... start a grammer thread to bash folks about that. now... lol, of course all those don't sound "bad"... but they are not what our founding fathers set in place as a foundation for what became the most powerful nation in the world in record time. They made sure that the gov't COULD NOT CONTROL THE LIVES OF CITIZENS. That is the Constitution... a limiting document FOR THE GOVERNMENT not a limiting document for the people. The more we sit back and allow the gov't to do for us, the more power the gov't gains, thus the more control the gov't has on our day to day lives and decisions. That is exactly what communism does.. it must enter through the back door standing on statements like "all kids should have free school"... then teary eyed folks say "YES, YES... FREE SCHOOL FOR ALL THE KIDS!!!" But it's how a communist intends on getting that free education for kids that is the problem. Look at the public school systems in America run by the government... they are disasters!! "Everyone deserves free healthcare"...the teary-eyed masses scream "YES, YES... FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL". Then we have the 2500 page Obamacare bill that has a WHOOOOLLLEEE lot more in it that just free doc visits. It is an entire gov't takeover of the greatest healthcare in the world.
The feelgoodism has to be removed from these discussions. They play to the sympathies of the masses to institute policies that have proven disastrous for many countries throughout history.
Now.. I'm going to assume you have at least the reading comprehension of a 12 year old... but if you don't, I can go down those one by one and give you a modern day example if you'd like... but I trust you beternU!!! You can do it all by yourself!!! lol

Yep, you're a saint. I guess it's OK in your book to insult people as long as you don't TECHNICALLY call them a name.

So, let's see, the public schools just SUDDENLY went downhill when Obama took office? Seems to me this has been going on for decades, but that's OK. You far right-wingers would blame Pearl Harbor on Obama if you thought you could get away with it.

And WHEN are you people going to understand that the US does NOT have "the greatest healthcare system in the world"? Google it by any criteria, mortality rates for babies or old people, illnesses, malpractice, ANY criteria. You will find that the good ole US lags far behind many other countries.

Kind of messes with your credibility now, doesn't it?
World Health Organization rankings:

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand

Even Columbia, Chile, and Costa Rica have the US beat!
B, I think if the Republicans hadn't fought the HCR bill, and co-operated with the Dems, they could have come up with something that would have really worked. As it is, we'll have to wait and see. But with the polarization of the two parties being as strong as it is, there is no way ANYTHING sensible will ever get accomplished. That goes for both sides.
The reps had over 200 amendments submitted, I would say that was working with the dems. They also had 3 versions of their own HC bill.

Now as for what this thing will do is a good question. The cost is already being adjusted up past a trillion and it hasn't even got the particulars laid out by Sebelius yet.

It just too big a task to do all at once. At 2000 pages and tons of references to other existing bills, I don't think anyone will be able to figure it out.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
World Health Organization rankings:

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand

Even Columbia, Chile, and Costa Rica have the US beat!


If this is true why do most of the elite and leaders of other countries come here for highly specialized treatment?
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Rankings for life expectancy doesn't match the system list.

1 Japan 74.5
2 Australia 73.2
3 France 73.1
4 Sweden 73.0
5 Spain 72.8
24 US 70.0


Transplant Japanese, and they still live longer than those in their new surroundings. Its partially genetic. As to the UN report, none of the countries reporting criteria are the same. US has a high infant mortality rate because doctors try to save most that other nations won't. Germany counts an infant brought to term as a success even if the death is within 24 hours.
Also from the report.

Responsiveness: The nations with the most responsive health systems are the United States, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Netherlands and Sweden. The reason these are all advanced industrial nations is that a number of the elements of responsiveness depend strongly on the availability of resources. In addition, many of these countries were the first to begin addressing the responsiveness of their health systems to people’s needs.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Also from the report.

Responsiveness: The nations with the most responsive health systems are the United States, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Netherlands and Sweden. The reason these are all advanced industrial nations is that a number of the elements of responsiveness depend strongly on the availability of resources. In addition, many of these countries were the first to begin addressing the responsiveness of their health systems to people’s needs.


When, I lived in Paris, I made sure my insurance could be used in the Czech Republic.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
There are things leaning that way that are disturbing. I think Obama is more of a fascist right now, possibly moving to communism.
We already have eminent domain, progressive taxing, credit being doled out by the whims of the federal reserve, take over of some auto industries and banks, and favoritism of the government to 'green job' manufacturers.

And that free education isn't free by the time you buy all the supplies.


You are aware that fascism is generally known to be far right.. right?
quote:
Originally posted by JerrySmith:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
There are things leaning that way that are disturbing. I think Obama is more of a fascist right now, possibly moving to communism.
We already have eminent domain, progressive taxing, credit being doled out by the whims of the federal reserve, take over of some auto industries and banks, and favoritism of the government to 'green job' manufacturers.

And that free education isn't free by the time you buy all the supplies.


You are aware that fascism is generally known to be far right.. right?


Wrong, Mussolini, the father of fascism, always considered himself a member of the left!
quote:
You are aware that fascism is generally known to be far right.. right?


Do this look far right...right or more left...left Obama style?

quote:
Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[24] They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence.[25] Fascism perceives conservatism as partly valuable for its support of order in society but disagrees with its typical opposition to change and modernization.[26] Fascism presents itself as a solution to the perceived benefits and disadvantages of conservatism by advocating state-controlled modernization that promotes orderly change while resisting the dangers to order in society of pluralism and independent initiative.[26]

Fascists support a "third position" in economic policy, which they believe superior to both the rampant individualism of laissez-faire capitalism and the severe control of state socialism.[27][28] Italian Fascism and most other fascist movements promote a corporatist economy whereby, in theory, representatives of capital and labour interest groups work together within sectoral corporations to create both harmonious labour relations and maximization of production that would serve the national interest.[29] However other fascist movements and ideologies, such as Nazism, did not utilize this form of economy.[29]
Good summary b50. Taken point by point, let's see if it's more like the American left or right.

quote:
Fascists support a "third position" in economic policy, which they believe superior to both the rampant individualism of laissez-faire capitalism and the severe control of state socialism.


That's both parties.

quote:
Italian Fascism and most other fascist movements promote a corporatist economy whereby, in theory, representatives of capital and labour interest groups work together within sectoral corporations to create both harmonious labour relations and maximization of production that would serve the national interest.


That's both parties.

quote:
They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence.


Change "miltary persons" to "well financed career politicians" and you have both parties. They then tell the military persons what to do.

It seems that no matter who we elect, we elect a fascist, and have been doing so for all of our lifetimes.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by O No!:
And WHEN are you people going to understand that the US does NOT have "the greatest healthcare system in the world"? Google it by any criteria, mortality rates for babies or old people, illnesses, malpractice, ANY criteria. You will find that the good ole US lags far behind many other countries.

QUOTE]

And when are you going to learn to use statistics and interpret them properly.
Comparing the healthcare system of the US with most of Europe is assinine.
most of the numbers mean very little.
For instance, a baby born in the US at 20 weeks gestation (a premie) is considered a live birth and if after extensive intensive care succumbs, it is counted as a natal death. In most European countries those babies would be left to die and not even placed in pediatric intensive care. If they die, they are not even included in the death rates.
Most of the European countries have up to 6 months waiting time for scans or even starting chemotherapy (there is a reason for this, since long term care is cheaper if there is less chance of survival).
They do a few things correctly, for instance the FDA is much slower in approving drugs, HOWEVER in this country every lawyer in town wants to sue the drugmaker if someone comes down with the sniffles after taking a medication.
Your statistical assessment is wrong in so many ways. It is a direct attempt by the liberal media to try and persuade the American people they are being misled.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Now.. I'm going to assume you have at least the reading comprehension of a 12 year old... but if you don't, I can go down those one by one and give you a modern day example if you'd like... but I trust you beternU!!! You can do it all by yourself!!! lol

Yep, you're a saint. I guess it's OK in your book to insult people as long as you don't TECHNICALLY call them a name.

So, let's see, the public schools just SUDDENLY went downhill when Obama took office? Seems to me this has been going on for decades, but that's OK. You far right-wingers would blame Pearl Harbor on Obama if you thought you could get away with it.

And WHEN are you people going to understand that the US does NOT have "the greatest healthcare system in the world"? Google it by any criteria, mortality rates for babies or old people, illnesses, malpractice, ANY criteria. You will find that the good ole US lags far behind many other countries.

Kind of messes with your credibility now, doesn't it?


Actually O No!! I was making a simple assumtion, not degrading anyone... see, like your post there... You obviously didn't "comprehend" my second post there... Because if you had "comprehended" it, then you wouldve noticed the part where I clearly stated... and I quote myself...
"By no means do I think King Barry and his crew are the first to implement these ideas... just the latest, and the hardest workers at it that we have seen in a few decades."

I mean come on... I even said "BY NO MEANS" to start my post!!! lol

I'm not a far right-winger.. I am a Constitutional conservative. I believe in the Constitution and that those foundations are the best for our country.... do you???

And yes, the USA lags behind some countries... of course, and this my hurt your "credibility", most countries that supposedly rank ahead of the US in healthcare carry a population the size of one of our medium sized states. Keep it in perspective.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
B, I think if the Republicans hadn't fought the HCR bill, and co-operated with the Dems, they could have come up with something that would have really worked. As it is, we'll have to wait and see. But with the polarization of the two parties being as strong as it is, there is no way ANYTHING sensible will ever get accomplished. That goes for both sides.


I HATE REBUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!!!
Rebublicans are big government, but the problem is Democrats a MASSIVE, HULKING, GARGANTUAN, HERCULEAN Government. It pisses me off that I have to vote Republican simply to pick "the lesser of 2 evils".
So you're saying the World Health Organization is "liberal"? Are you implying they are working with Obama to promote what you think is his "socialist agenda"? It sounds to me that you don't want to hear the truth and so are blaming the organization who has stated that truth.

If there had never been a healthcare reform bill, how many of you would still be complaining about the high price of medical care? How about the incompetence of so many doctors? I mean we ALL know someone who was given the wrong medication and got sick from it. We all know someone who was given the wrong diagnosis. SOME of us probably know someone who had the wrong side operated on.

Some of us know someone who died because of doctor's mistakes.

I'd also be willing to bet many of you have complained about the high cost of insurance. We ALL know someone whose insurance rates went up because they USED it. A lot of us know people who were dropped from their insurance when they got too sick. Most of us know people who have been denied insurance because of a "pre-existing condition". And most of us who have insurance have been told which doctors we can see, and which procedures we can have done.

How many of us have needed to see a doctor TODAY, but can't get an appointment until two or three weeks from now, or even next month? How many have needed to see a doctor, but end up seeing a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant instead (even though they charge the same)?

How many of us are given prescriptions that cost so much that if we don't have insurance, we have to go without? And how many of us who HAVE insurance have been prescribed drugs that we don't really need? How many unnecessary surgeries have been performed because, "Hey their insurance will cover it, I'll make a profit, and at the same time, cover my butt in case they get sicker? They can't sue for malpractice if I tried EVERYTHING."

While there ARE many really great doctors out there, and even a few great hospitals, I believe the overall SYSTEM in this country has been on a steady decline for the past 40 years or so.

I'm not saying that the the new Healthcare Reform is the answer, but SOMETHING needed to be done, and I have high hopes that once it is phased in, we can work out the kinks and have something better than what we have now.
I really don't know of any dropped for using their insurance, I have read about it, of course, but don't know anyone.

As for a doctor visit, GP's are usually same day or next day. If you want to talk specialists, yes, that takes months but I don't think Obamacare fixes that.

The best thing for drugs is the $15 for three months at many pharmacies. Covered drugs vary from each one, but so far I have found all the ones I need covered. I did drop one that even with insurance was $1300 a month. Stupid.

As for people dying from a doctor' mistake, that is very tragic but I really don't see how more insurance red tape will help that.

I hate my insurance now, but I have found ways to work around it. The new bill could undo that. I will not be happy.
Actually O No!.. i do believe there are several "world" organizations that push socialism. You have already heard King Barry talk about a "world banking system"....(clearing throat) THAT IS COMMUNISM!!!!! lol

As for insurance... few things.. number one, WE HAVE BECOME A NATION OF FREAKING PANZIES!!!!! We are highly over medicated, we act like the world is coming to an end if little Suzie gets a cough, or little Johnny has a little too much energy...so what do we do? We don't just chalk it up as NORMAL!! NOOOOOO... we stuff pills down their throat. So we've weakend our kids, they become weak teen(who don't exercise by the way), then weak adults... all the while thinking they can't survive without drug A or drug B. That comes back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND COMMON FREAKIN SENSE!!! Two big issues our founding fathers pressed often.
Also, a big problem with the medical industry is that there are more ambulance chasin attornies in the medical industry than there are doctors. It's INSANE!!!
As for the pay... we are gonna pay for it one way or another... pay your insurance or pay by visit now... Or, under Obama-care, pay higher taxes or a fine for not purchasing insurance... which, by the way, the government is FORCING YOU TO BUY which is highly unconstitutional.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
So you're saying the World Health Organization is "liberal"?

The WHO and UN do not use like minded statistics. If all the statistical information was standardized it might be different, however it is not. Like I said there are huge differences in the way the data is collected, and even wider liberty is taken with its interpretation.
Are you implying they are working with Obama to promote what you think is his "socialist agenda"?
If you do not see a socialist agenda in Obama and his cabinet, there is no reason to even discuss this with you, you are beyond help. He has done nothing except advoacte distribution of wealth since he came on to the scene.
It sounds to me that you don't want to hear the truth and so are blaming the organization who has stated that truth.

If there had never been a healthcare reform bill, how many of you would still be complaining about the high price of medical care? How about the incompetence of so many doctors?
Every physician in practice MUST pass the recommended state tests and should be board certified. If they are not board certified, then don't use them. Do you think the nurse practioners will be board certified in internal medicine? Don't think so. I mean we ALL know someone who was given the wrong medication and got sick from it.

And where in the healthcare bill does it address reaction from medication? The PDR lists about 50 side effects of EVERY medication avaiable in the US market. The reason - legal disclosure and the ability for a lawyer to document your reaction. This is not going to solve anything in that regard, although it may lessen your access to medicine.
We all know someone who was given the wrong diagnosis. SOME of us probably know someone who had the wrong side operated on.

Some of us know someone who died because of doctor's mistakes.I know people who have died from mistakes from all types of people, electricians, car makers, etc, yet no where do I see a complete takeover of their operations by the government.

I'd also be willing to bet many of you have complained about the high cost of insurance. We ALL know someone whose insurance rates went up because they USED it. A lot of us know people who were dropped from their insurance when they got too sick. Most of us know people who have been denied insurance because of a "pre-existing condition". And most of us who have insurance have been told which doctors we can see, and which procedures we can have done.

How many of us have needed to see a doctor TODAY, but can't get an appointment until two or three weeks from now, or even next month?

Well get ready to wait more. In October BCBS will institue a new decrease in fee schedule, to coincide with CMS's 20% proposed cut backs. Primary care doctors are scrambling to find ways to run "cash only" businesses and inventive ways to keep their doors open. The cost of a medical school education is around $250K on average, even more in most places. In this area you cannot find a primary care doctor who wants to come here because of the current landscape of healthcare battles from both sides of the river, and from Washington. Fee schedules, paperwork, insurance filing, which may take up to 90 days for reimbursement, and more rules on top of this are not going to help you get into to see the docotr, more than likely it is going to decrease your access to one. Look for overbooked ER's on top of this. There were many things that could have been done differently, but they did not want to here from the medical community (except for academic types who all work for salary, or government contract). Socialized medicine which is what some of you want is not the answer. Like I have heard before, there is no such thing as a free lunch, sooner or later you are gonna pay for it. How many have needed to see a doctor, but end up seeing a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant instead (even though they charge the same)?

How many of us are given prescriptions that cost so much that if we don't have insurance, we have to go without? And how many of us who HAVE insurance have been prescribed drugs that we don't really need? How many unnecessary surgeries have been performed because, "Hey their insurance will cover it, I'll make a profit, and at the same time, cover my butt in case they get sicker? They can't sue for malpractice if I tried EVERYTHING."

While there ARE many really great doctors out there, and even a few great hospitals, I believe the overall SYSTEM in this country has been on a steady decline for the past 40 years or so.

I'm not saying that the the new Healthcare Reform is the answer, but SOMETHING needed to be done, and I have high hopes that once it is phased in, we can work out the kinks and have something better than what we have now.
quote:
You are aware that fascism is generally known to be far right.. right?


While there may be some differences in how both systems operate they are both statist systems. Communism involves the total control of property and the means of production by direct ownership while fascism controls those things by controlling those who "own?" the property and businesses. Beyond that there is little difference. As such, the US has been a fascist state since the 1930's.
Peter Rielly, if you believe in the constitution, how can you back Newt? He obviously doesn't believe in freedom of religion, that is of course unless it's HIS religion.

Oh, and I see that you don't find anything wrong with name-calling as long as the one you are insulting will probably never read it: for your information, the proper term is "President Obama", NOT "King Barry".
I know B, but Peter was castigating BeternU for calling him ignorant. Said he was above name-calling. I just wanted topoint out to him that he's not above ANYTHING.

Yeah, politics is nasty. I never called Bush anything but "King George", although I REALLY disliked him. But then again, I never said I was above name-calling.

And you and I are a good example of people who are polar opposites when it comes to politics, but we are still able to debate without insulting each other. Maybe we should alert the Dems and Repubs that it CAN be done! Smiler
They would never believe it.

I have found the best way to handle forum posting is read a thread, wait 30 minutes then go back and post. Keeps the tempers down.

King Barry is not so bad, now the Holy Messiah or The Obamanation (my fav) is a little strong. But, of course, Bush was called Hitler, so, oh well.

Dems and reps unite! Vote libertarian! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Peter Rielly, if you believe in the constitution, how can you back Newt? He obviously doesn't believe in freedom of religion, that is of course unless it's HIS religion.

Oh, and I see that you don't find anything wrong with name-calling as long as the one you are insulting will probably never read it: for your information, the proper term is "President Obama", NOT "King Barry".


Is "King Barry" a slander??? I think he'd love that!! ;-)

As for Newt... Where pretell are you getting the inside scoop that he isn't for freedom of religion?? lol
I'm not a Newt fan, however, he knows politics, and he was the only thing that stood in the way of this type of out of control govt when Clinton was in the White House. And, he would DESTROY King Barry in a debate.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×