Skip to main content

Conservatives for the Constitution


The group that's advancing this so-called "American Freedom Agenda" is chaired by Bruce Fein, a former Nixon administration aide who served as deputy attorney general under President Reagan and who helped to formulate some of the serious -- pre-blue dress -- arguments for impeaching Bill Clinton. Fein is joined by former Georgia Republican Congressman Bob Barr, veteran conservative fund-raiser Richard Viguerie and David Keene, the former aide to Bob Dole who for many years has served as chairman of the American Conservative Union.

What gives? How come conservatives are taking the lead in the fight to restore basic Constitutional protections?

"The most conservative principles of the Constitution have been repeatedly violated in the last several years," says Fein. "[The] Founding Fathers engrafted a system of checks and review of one branch by another -- a system of due process safeguards against injustice that is likely to occur because of prejudice and fear. And those checks and balances have eroded enormously over the last several years, particularly since 9/11."
================================================================================ "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer - German philosopher (1788 - 1860)
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

You have stumped me. I read the article, It begins with a statement that implies, or at least I inferred from it, that Liberals DO NOT favor:
quote:
• End the use of military commissions to prosecute crimes.

• Prohibit the use of secret evidence or evidence obtained by torture.

• Prohibit the detention of American citizens as enemy combatants without proof.

• Restore habeas corpus for alleged alien combatants.

• End National Security Agency warrantless wiretapping.

• Empower Congress to challenge presidential signing statements.

• Bar executive use of the state secret privilege to deny justice.

• Prohibit the President from collaborating with foreign governments to kidnap, detain of torture persons abroad.

• Amend the Espionage Act to permit journalists to report on classified national security matters without threat of persecution.

• Prohibit of the labeling of groups or individuals in the U.S. as global terrorists based on secret evidence.

Of course, it is difficult to conceive of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or even the somewhat more Constitutionally-courageous John Edwards going to such extremes.
The opposition to military commissions comes from liberals. The opposition to the use of Torture and secret evidence comes from liberals. The opposition to the detention of American Citizens as enemy combatants comes from Liberals.
In fact, ON EVERY POINT, the Liberals in Congress, the Media and everyday life have expressed opposition, and in Fact each of the points is something the Bush Administration is DOING, AND DEMOCRATS ARE OPPOSING.

Obama, in a telephone interview told David Sirota of "The Nation" that he was a cautious candidate. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/sirota

Thanks for the vote of confidence in Liberals miamizsun it is refreshing to find such a luminous group of Republicans supporting Liberal positions on the Constitution.
Ed, I posted the article because after reading it and knowing what I know about the site, it is refreshing to see a conservative movement who wants to get back to adhering to constitutional law. Why did I go to the website in the first place? I actually heard a Bob Barr interview on Thom Hartmann. He and Thom actually agreed on several key issues.

But can you make me a list of the "Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

Or who opposed going to war before we invaded?

We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.
quote:
We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.


That is exactly the problem with politics today. Politicians are too worried about being Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal to actually think for themselves. It's become more like two teams playing against each other rather than a group of people working to keep the basic infrastructure of the country going. Everyone wants to play it safe, wear a label, and go along with their group's beliefs. The best thing for this country is to get rid of both sides and parties and find some people who think independently and logically, two traits we're missing in politics today.
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
Ed, I posted the article because after reading it and knowing what I know about the site, it is refreshing to see a conservative movement who wants to get back to adhering to constitutional law. Why did I go to the website in the first place? I actually heard a Bob Barr interview on Thom Hartmann. He and Thom actually agreed on several key issues.

But can you make me a list of the "Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

Or who opposed going to war before we invaded?

We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.



"Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

You really don't have that many liberals in congress! 6 or 7 at the most. most of your democrats who are in congress now are conservatives!
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.


That is exactly the problem with politics today. Politicians are too worried about being Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal to actually think for themselves. It's become more like two teams playing against each other rather than a group of people working to keep the basic infrastructure of the country going. Everyone wants to play it safe, wear a label, and go along with their group's beliefs. The best thing for this country is to get rid of both sides and parties and find some people who think independently and logically, two traits we're missing in politics today.


Nash... I AGREE with what you said here 100%!!!! That is EXACTLY What is wrong...

Only thing I would like to add, is that I hate it when someone LABEL's me just because of my opinions of today's times... I do NOT wear a Label... I did not vote for Bush, I did not vote for Carter, and I voted for Reagan...

I do NOT like how America is being operated and have not liked it for a few years now, because I am old enough to REMEMBER the right way (technically) to operate our Country...

So, am I righ-wing.... left-wing... Liberal... Conservative???? No way of really telling, cuz I took the label's off many years ago.

I am just a simple American who wants change... And I could care less if it is Rep. Dem. or Ind... as long as we go back to our Constitutional way of running the country, instead of someone sitting up there trying to create an EMPIRE for himself....

Okay, end of rant, lol... Thanks Nash, good comment there.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
Ed, I posted the article because after reading it and knowing what I know about the site, it is refreshing to see a conservative movement who wants to get back to adhering to constitutional law. Why did I go to the website in the first place? I actually heard a Bob Barr interview on Thom Hartmann. He and Thom actually agreed on several key issues.

But can you make me a list of the "Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

Or who opposed going to war before we invaded?

We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.



"Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

You really don't have that many liberals in congress! 6 or 7 at the most. most of your democrats who are in congress now are conservatives!
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACE IS A LIBERAL
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACE IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---98
Akaka (D-HI)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---1
Feingold (D-WI)

Not Voting - 1
Landrieu (D-LA)
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACE IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---98
Akaka (D-HI)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---1
Feingold (D-WI)

Not Voting - 1
Landrieu (D-LA)

You left out 171 no votes.
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Baird
Baldwin
Bartlett (MD)
Becerra
Berkley
Berman
Berry
Bishop (NY)
Bishop (UT)
Blumenauer
Boucher
Boyd
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carson
Clay
Cleaver
Conyers
Costa
Costello
Crowley
Cuellar
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Engel
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Ford
Frank (MA)
Gonzalez
Green, Al
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hinchey
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kind
Kucinich
LaHood
Langevin
Lantos
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lucas
Lynch
Mack
Maloney
Manzullo
Markey
Matheson
Matsui
McCarthy
McCollum (MN)
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Millender-McDonald
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murtha
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Ney
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Otter
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Peterson (MN)
Price (GA)
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Rohrabacher
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Sabo
Salazar
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sanders
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sherman
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Tanner
Tauscher
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Visclosky
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
Young (AK)
There are two houses of Congress, THE SENATE IS ONLY ONE.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACE IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---98
Akaka (D-HI)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---1
Feingold (D-WI)

Not Voting - 1
Landrieu (D-LA)

You left out 171 no votes.
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Baird
Baldwin
Bartlett (MD)
Becerra
Berkley
Berman
Berry
Bishop (NY)
Bishop (UT)
Blumenauer
Boucher
Boyd
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carson
Clay
Cleaver
Conyers
Costa
Costello
Crowley
Cuellar
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Engel
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Ford
Frank (MA)
Gonzalez
Green, Al
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hinchey
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kind
Kucinich
LaHood
Langevin
Lantos
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lucas
Lynch
Mack
Maloney
Manzullo
Markey
Matheson
Matsui
McCarthy
McCollum (MN)
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Millender-McDonald
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murtha
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Ney
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Otter
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Peterson (MN)
Price (GA)
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Rohrabacher
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Sabo
Salazar
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sanders
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sherman
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Tanner
Tauscher
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Visclosky
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
Young (AK)
There are two houses of Congress, THE SENATE IS ONLY ONE.


Two things I see here:

1. "not voting" isn't a no vote.

2. There are conservatives on the list. One of my favorites is Roscoe Bartlett. He and Ron Paul .
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACT IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.


There are two houses of Congress, THE SENATE IS ONLY ONE.


Two things I see here:

1. "not voting" isn't a no vote.

2. There are conservatives on the list. One of my favorites is Roscoe Bartlett. He and Ron Paul .
Your statement was one voted in congress in opposition to the Patriot Act. There were 171 no votes in the House. added to Feingold, that makes 172 no votes, I did not count the not voting total.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACT IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.


There are two houses of Congress, THE SENATE IS ONLY ONE.


Two things I see here:

1. "not voting" isn't a no vote.

2. There are conservatives on the list. One of my favorites is Roscoe Bartlett. He and Ron Paul .
Your statement was one voted in congress in opposition to the Patriot Act. There were 171 no votes in the House. added to Feingold, that makes 172 no votes, I did not count the not voting total.


Ed, whatever. "No votes" isn't a vote against a particular amendment.

The point is that Liberals didn't voice opposition to the original PA. Your comment was thanking me for the vote of confidence in the Liberals. A bit of sarcasm, and that is OK, but just remember that I hold all politicians accountable, regardless of party affiliation. In other words I judge them by what they do, not what they say. I don't buy the BS, for example just look at the record, the disastrous debt, deficit and unfunded liability are proof of poor leadership. The Democrats are the flip side of the same coin. If you want to champion what you consider the lesser of the two evils, go ahead, but it is still evil. Good luck.

Regards, miamizsun
I don't buy the BS, for example just look at the record, the disastrous debt, deficit and unfunded liability are proof of poor leadership. The Democrats are the flip side of the same coin. If you want to champion what you consider the lesser of the two evils, go ahead, but it is still evil. Good luck.

Regards, miamizsun[/QUOTE]


Exactly. Both parties share equal responsibility for putting this great country on the road to ruin. As it stands now, the only difference between the two major parties is whether you want your hands chopped off at the wrist or elbow. Either way you still end up with no hands. But we'll continue with this cycle until one day Juan Valdez is elected president and the USA is a third world country. Thank God I'll be gone by then and won't have to see it. What a legacy for my grandchildren.

I'm sure I offended someone, so excuse me while I go fire myself. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
Ed, I posted the article because after reading it and knowing what I know about the site, it is refreshing to see a conservative movement who wants to get back to adhering to constitutional law. Why did I go to the website in the first place? I actually heard a Bob Barr interview on Thom Hartmann. He and Thom actually agreed on several key issues.

But can you make me a list of the "Liberals" who voted against the Patriot Act?

Or who opposed going to war before we invaded?

We both know that there are less than a handful. Democrats as well as Republicans are famous for rubber stamping party line issues, regardless of our best interest. Rarely does any politician have the courage to stand up and do what is right.
I thank you for pointing out that there are Republican, and for that matter conservative voices, rising against the Present Presidential Policies. What I wanted to point out is that the position of the Democratic Policy was, and still is, opposition to the Bush abuse of the constitutional rights of Americans and the jingoistic position that somehow the US government does not have to extend human rights protections to people in our custody.
Of the Republicans campaigning for the Presidential Nomination only McCain seems willing to bind himself to the totality of the Bush policies.
In an interview yesterday with Charlie Rose, Arnold Schwarzenneger, clearly defined the areas that Bush and the Democrats, and Schwarzennegger himself are at odds.

view the whole discussion here http://www.charlierose.com/
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
too easy, EVERY CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACT IS A LIBERAL

================================================

Ed, you mean all one of him.


There are two houses of Congress, THE SENATE IS ONLY ONE.


Two things I see here:

1. "not voting" isn't a no vote.

2. There are conservatives on the list. One of my favorites is Roscoe Bartlett. He and Ron Paul .
Your statement was one voted in congress in opposition to the Patriot Act. There were 171 no votes in the House. added to Feingold, that makes 172 no votes, I did not count the not voting total.


Ed, whatever. "No votes" isn't a vote against a particular amendment.

The point is that Liberals didn't voice opposition to the original PA. Your comment was thanking me for the vote of confidence in the Liberals. A bit of sarcasm, and that is OK, but just remember that I hold all politicians accountable, regardless of party affiliation. In other words I judge them by what they do, not what they say. I don't buy the BS, for example just look at the record, the disastrous debt, deficit and unfunded liability are proof of poor leadership. The Democrats are the flip side of the same coin. If you want to champion what you consider the lesser of the two evils, go ahead, but it is still evil. Good luck.

Regards, miamizsun
Right, "Not Voting is exactly that. And in the Senate one Person Landrieu (D-LA) did not vote. All I wanted to point out, and did, is that 171 members of the House Voted Against the Patriot Act. I believe that corrects the error you made that ONLY ONE MEMBER OF CONGRESS VOTED AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACT. This should clarify what I did. YOU presented a report that was erroneous. If you had said one Senator, Feingold, had voted against the act and 98 Senators had voted for it, I would have posted the same list of Ayes and Nayes from the House, but there would have been no need to correct your statement, "Ed, you mean all one of him" I hope you noticed that I did not, till now, mention that Diane Feingold is not a "him" but a "her."
I believe you to be a SUPPORTER of any act claiming to lead toward winning the war on terror. Your Statement, if accepted without question supports the position that the Patriot Act has consensus support.
There are a number of problems with the idea that the Patriot Act is aimed at terrorists. First is the fact that provisions of the Patriot act can be used to justify secret investigation of almost any organization. All that is required is a desire by a prosecutor to check out an organization. The American Friends Committee has already come under investigation in this way. The roots of the American Friends Committee go way back in American History. All the way back to before the revolutionary war. American Friends Committee groups operated the Underground Railroad. The history goes back to the early 17th century.
They were under secret surveillance as recently as last year.

Regarding Roscoe Bartlett, you are correct, he is a conservative. And he voted against the Patriot Act. If you will go to his web page, and look at his positions on Issues, you will find a genuine conservative positions.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×