Skip to main content

Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?
Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was used before the end of the first century. She writes:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluble information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the Church.

We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised and professed that Jesus is Lord. During his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily growing and might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.

To help us understand Constantine's relationship to the Church, let us look at modern day China. In China, there is great oppression against the Church. We've all heard about the atrocities; about people being dragged off by the authorities never to be seen again; about authorities breaking up public gatherings of Christians and throwing them in prison; outlawing the Bible etc. This is a terrible situation and many Christians have become martyrs to change it.

Assume a leader came into power in China who recognized Christianity and made it legal. Imagine what a great day that would be, a celebration! Christians could go out freely and preach the Good News from the housetops as Jesus commanded. They would be able to freely gather and convert people to the life giving faith in Christ. The leader who accomplished that tremendous feat would be one of the greatest men in all of China's history, regardless of his own personal defects of character. He would be instrumental in the salvation of millions and perhaps billions. (Let's pray that happens).

The situation of the early Church in Rome was not unlike modern day China. Christians were being thrown to the lions, torn limb from limb. They were under great persecution. This was inhibiting Jesus' command to proclaim the Good News from the housetops.

Therefore whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed from the housetops. I tell you my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after that can do nothing more. (Lk 12:3-4)

This Scripture passage was not only a command, it was a prophesy of things to come, and it did not come to pass until Constantine made Christianity "legal." It's pretty hard to proclaim the Good News from a housetop if someone comes along and arrests you and kills you when you preach! It is clear that the persecution of Christians in the Roman empire was not what Jesus wanted and that it had to change. Constantine was the fulfillment of prophecy (Lk 12:3-4).

Constantine's wife convinced him to preserve many historical sites that have, over the ages, enriched the lives of millions of Christians including Evangelicals who have journeyed to the Holy Land. Despite any personal defects we might attribute to Constantine, he performed one of the greatest feats of any man in history. He brought the Church out from under the yoke of oppression and allowed people to preach the gospel from the housetops which is what Christ commanded and prophesied. This action by Constantine saved millions of lives and more importantly, it saved millions of souls. If you are "saved" today you may want to be thankful for what Constantine did. If you were able to trace back through the generations of Christians leading up to the one who brought the Good News to you, you would probably find a critical link to Constantine's decision. Many Christians, including Evangelicals, would not be Christian today if it was not this providential twist in history.

After the crucifixion, the apostles passed to the Early Church Fathers, the Faith. Later Emperors and Monarchs accepted the Creed; their subjects followed. That's how it started.

...By around 120 [AD], key features of Christianity had taken shape-an organized priesthood... (pg 349, The Romans From Village to Empire, Oxford University Press)

Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognized it and let people legally be Christian. Christians were having "Catholic" Masses long before this "legalization" of Christianity. Three hundred years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honoured Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the Church hierarchy, baptized babies, recognized Peter as the Rock, built the Church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity. That was the Christianity of the early days of Christianity and that is the Catholic Church of today. Catholic means "universal." A timeline of the Catholic Church from 1-500 A.D. is here

Sometimes Evangelicals look at beautiful Catholic Churches that Constantine built and ask "why didn't the Church continue to worship in people's homes." These Evangelicals point out that in the first years of Christianity the places of assembly were peoples homes. This is true. They were also sometimes in Catacombs. But Catholics don't think this was God's plan for "Church." It was a result of persecution. If homes were the ideal spot for assembly then they wouldn't have had services in Catacombs.

The martyrs died so that Christians could get out of their homes and have their worship services in public.
The martyrs longed for the day when Christians could hold their services in public where they could be a better witness and provide a public venue that was welcoming to strangers. So it confuses me as to why people in today's society would like to go back to the days when Christians were oppressed, and forced to gather in homes. Constantine's legalization of Christianity ended the public and state oppression of Christianity that forced people to gather in homes.

People who grew up in communist Russia during the cold war know what it is like to have the Church forced out of the public square and into their homes. And they celebrated when they could go back to public churches after communism fell. Let us not get nostalgic and romantic about Christian oppression.

In my testimony I talk about the day I got off a bus in Montreal and wandered off the street into a big beautiful Church. I surrendered my life to Jesus that day. It is doubtful that I would have walked into someone's home and done the same thing.

When Jesus saw money changers in the temple. He didn't say "hey guys, its only a building, we can worship anywhere, lets go down the street to the community centre." No, He chased them out. (Lk 19:45) He had a passion for the Temple. He called it "my Father's House." (Lk 2:49, 16:27, Jn 2:16)

Church buildings began in the latter half of the second century during lulls in persecution, long before Constantine. They became widespread after the Enactment of Milan in 313 AD when it finally became possible for the Church to emerge completely from the underground.

Today there are huge Evangelical Churches springing up all over the world. When I was in Guatemala there was a beautiful 7,000 seat Evangelical Church being built. The "Dream Center" in Los Angeles is another example. Evangelicals are building big beautiful Churches as fast as they can get the money to build them. Catholics just have a 1700 year head start :-)

Constantine did not invent the Church any more than a modern day leader who would legalize Christian practices in China would invent Christianity. Let us all pray for China.

"Oh Lord, pour your Holy Spirit upon that great nation of China. Save your people in China, move the hearts of the leadership, rise up a courageous soul who will rewrite the laws of that land. Oh Lord let your Word be proclaimed from the housetops in China, that all men and women of that country may see the light and receive salvation, Amen."
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
Are you trying to compete with BG in your length of posts? You lost my interest after the first paragraph.


SR,

The most important part of the post;
[Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognized it and let people legally be Christian. Christians were having "Catholic" Masses long before this "legalization" of Christianity. Three hundred years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honored Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the Church hierarchy, baptized babies, recognized Peter as the Rock, built the Church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity. That was the Christianity of the early days of Christianity and that is the Catholic Church of today.]
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?

Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was used before the end of the first century. She writes:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluble (sic) information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the Church.

We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised (sic) and professed that Jesus is Lord. During his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily growing and might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.

Hi Child,

The writer, Susan Fortin, whom you have copy/pasted is trying to wiggle-walk around the issue. The writer speaks of "Catholicism" and tries to equate that with the Roman Catholic church. The word "catholic" means "universal" and does describe the church which Jesus Christ began on the Day of Pentecost about 33 AD. Roman Catholicism applies only to the Church of Rome, i.e., the Vatican based church.

The "universal" Christian church began in the Upper Room fifty days after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and ten days after His Ascension into heaven. The Holy Spirit, which Jesus had promised to His disciples (120 of them), came upon the group of 120 in the Upper Room. Then the apostles, not just Peter, went out and preached the Gospel to the crowd and 3000 more joined the new "universal" church, the body of believers.

This body of believers which was called, by its detractors, "the Way" -- and later, in Antioch, was called, also by detractors as a way of maligning believers, Christians. By this, they were facetiously saying that all believers were "little Christs." But, the believers, rather than finding the new name insulting -- took it as a badge of honor. And, to this day, there is no greater honor you can give a believer than to call him/her a Christian, a Christ Follower. This, Child, is the Catholic, or Universal, church.

The Roman Catholic church is totally different. Below are several excerpts with references:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What are the major events in Roman Catholic Church history?
http://www.allaboutreligion.or...urch-history-faq.htm

To summarize Roman Catholic church history, we can begin with the establishment of Christianity as the state religion by Emperor Constantine around 313. At this time, the church began to make headway among the aristocracy. At this time, there was bitter controversy as well as the production of great theological treatises.

Constantine I and Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...e_I_and_Christianity

The Roman Emperor Constantine the Great converted to Christianity following his victory at the Battle of Milvian Bridge in 312.[1] Under his rule, Christianity rose to become the dominant religion in the Roman Empire, and for his example of a "Christian monarch" Constantine is revered as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church and Oriental Orthodox Church.

The Conversion of Constantine
http://www.religionfacts.com/c...tory/constantine.htm

A major turning point in Christian history occurred when the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Whether this conversion was sincere or politically motivated, historians can only speculate. But the result was the end of persecution of Christians and the beginning of Christendom.

In 313 Constantine issued the "Edict of Milan," which commanded official toleration of Christianity and other religions. He ordered that Sunday be granted the same legal rights as pagan feasts and that feasts in memory of Christian martyrs be recognized. Constantine outlawed the barbaric gladiatorial shows (although they persisted until the fifth century) and forbade Jews to stone to death other Jews who chose to become Christians.

Contrary to popular belief, however, Constantine did not make Christianity the official religion of the empire. This was to be accomplished by Emperor Theodosius in 380. Constantine's program was one of toleration only, and he continued to support both Christianity and paganism. In 314, the cross appeared on Constantine's coins, but so did the figures of Sol Invictus and Mars Convervator. He raised his children as Christians and secured Christian clergy as person advisors, but retained the title pontifex maximus, the chief priest of the state cult, until his death.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, Child, to answer the questions posed by your lady author: "Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?"

No, but, Constantine did, in effect, invent Roman Catholicism when he gave us the root beginning of the Roman Catholic church, the Church of Rome.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?

Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was used before the end of the first century. She writes:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluble (sic) information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the Church.

We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised (sic) and professed that Jesus is Lord. During his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily growing and might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.

Hi Child,

The writer, Susan Fortin, whom you have copy/pasted is trying to wiggle-walk around the issue. The writer speaks of "Catholicism" and tries to equate that with the Roman Catholic church. The word "catholic" means "universal" and does describe the church which Jesus Christ began on the Day of Pentecost about 33 AD. Roman Catholicism applies only to the Church of Rome, i.e., the Vatican based church.

The "universal" Christian church began in the Upper Room fifty days after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and ten days after His Ascension into heaven. The Holy Spirit, which Jesus had promised to His disciples (120 of them), came upon the group of 120 in the Upper Room. Then the apostles, not just Peter, went out and preached the Gospel to the crowd and 3000 more joined the new "universal" church, the body of believers.

This body of believers which was called, by its detractors, "the Way" -- and later, in Antioch, was called, also by detractors as a way of maligning believers, Christians. By this, they were facetiously saying that all believers were "little Christs." But, the believers, rather than finding the new name insulting -- took it as a badge of honor. And, to this day, there is no greater honor you can give a believer than to call him/her a Christian, a Christ Follower. This, Child, is the Catholic, or Universal, church.

The Roman Catholic church is totally different. Below are several excerpts with references:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What are the major events in Roman Catholic Church history?
http://www.allaboutreligion.or...urch-history-faq.htm

To summarize Roman Catholic church history, we can begin with the establishment of Christianity as the state religion by Emperor Constantine around 313. At this time, the church began to make headway among the aristocracy. At this time, there was bitter controversy as well as the production of great theological treatises.

Constantine I and Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...e_I_and_Christianity

The Roman Emperor Constantine the Great converted to Christianity following his victory at the Battle of Milvian Bridge in 312.[1] Under his rule, Christianity rose to become the dominant religion in the Roman Empire, and for his example of a "Christian monarch" Constantine is revered as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church and Oriental Orthodox Church.

The Conversion of Constantine
http://www.religionfacts.com/c...tory/constantine.htm

A major turning point in Christian history occurred when the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Whether this conversion was sincere or politically motivated, historians can only speculate. But the result was the end of persecution of Christians and the beginning of Christendom.

In 313 Constantine issued the "Edict of Milan," which commanded official toleration of Christianity and other religions. He ordered that Sunday be granted the same legal rights as pagan feasts and that feasts in memory of Christian martyrs be recognized. Constantine outlawed the barbaric gladiatorial shows (although they persisted until the fifth century) and forbade Jews to stone to death other Jews who chose to become Christians.

Contrary to popular belief, however, Constantine did not make Christianity the official religion of the empire. This was to be accomplished by Emperor Theodosius in 380. Constantine's program was one of toleration only, and he continued to support both Christianity and paganism. In 314, the cross appeared on Constantine's coins, but so did the figures of Sol Invictus and Mars Convervator. He raised his children as Christians and secured Christian clergy as person advisors, but retained the title pontifex maximus, the chief priest of the state cult, until his death.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, Child, to answer the questions posed by your lady author: "Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?"

No, but, Constantine did, in effect, invent Roman Catholicism when he gave us the root beginning of the Roman Catholic church, the Church of Rome.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill



Christ left the adoption of a name for His Church to those whom he commissioned to teach all nations. Christ called the spiritual society He established, "My Church" (Mt. xvi, 18), "the Church" (Mt. xviii, 17). In order to have a distinction between the Church and the Synagogue and to have a distinguishing name from those embracing Judaic and Gnostic errors we find St. Ignatius (50-107 A.D.) using the Greek word "Katholicos" (universal) to describe the universality of the Church established by Christ. St. Ignatius was appointed Bishop of Antioch by St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome. It is in his writtings that we find the word Catholic used for the first time. St. Augustine, when speaking about the Church of Christ, calls it the Catholic Church 240 times in his writings.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?

Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was used before the end of the first century. She writes:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluble (sic) information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the Church.

We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised (sic) and professed that Jesus is Lord. During his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily growing and might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.



hi snake.......... When your wrong your wrong. Go back and read it again, It's all correct.

Your information is what's wrong, where do you come up with this make believe change of
history? Do think 2000 year's ago they said "Let's fool snake gray",no. documentation
was very important and correct. why would it not be? You and your other catholic haters
are still writing false doctrine. Do you think you're the first flaming uncontrollable
enemy of Jesus and his church?

Do you think you will prevail with your lies when the gates of hell can't win?

I have never understood your hate for what is so holy. I do understand someone misguided
as you, but your not, you just hate.

There was no protestant record keeping for about 1500 year's. But you did get your first
bible in 1611. by way of the Catholic church. And to be frank you messed that up as well.

I'll say goodbye to the TD newspaper and stay in south alabama and other forums. It will be
good to not hear your yapping corny silly stuff. I can't think of anyone else I won't miss.
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
quote:
Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
Are you trying to compete with BG in your length of posts? You lost my interest after the first paragraph.

SR, The most important part of the post; [Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognized it and let people legally be Christian. Christians were having "Catholic" Masses long before this "legalization" of Christianity.

Three hundred years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honored Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the Church hierarchy, baptized babies, recognized Peter as the Rock, built the Church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity. That was the Christianity of the early days of Christianity and that is the Catholic Church of today.

Hi David,

You say, "Constantine did not invent Catholicism, he simply recognized it. . ."

Wrong, my Friend. You, like Child's writer, are confusing the "catholic" church with the Roman Catholic church. These are totally two different animals. The "catholic" church is the "universal" church was instituted by Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost. The Roman Catholic church, i.e., the Church of Rome, came about 300 years later, under Constantine.

You say, "Christians were having "Catholic" Masses long before this "legalization" of Christianity."

No, Christians were having fellowship, teaching, and worshiping Christ together -- as we are told in Acts 2:42, 44, "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. . . And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common."

The rituals, robes, and traditions of the "mass" came 300 years later -- in Rome.

You say, "Three hundred years before Constantine, Christians believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, honored Mary, had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, respected the Church hierarchy, baptized babies, recognized Peter as the Rock, built the Church upon him with successors and followed a rich tradition of Christianity."

That, my Friend, is ALL Roman Catholic propaganda and false teachings. You cannot show ANY of this in the Bible.

Specifically, show us, in the Bible, where the early Jerusalem Christians had elaborate ceremonies, prayed for the dead, baptized babies, honored Mary (other than respecting her for being the human mother of the human nature of Jesus).

None of this is Biblical and none of it is true.

Show us in the Bible where Peter was recognized as the Rock. No, my Friend, ONLY Jesus Christ is recognized as the Rock.

In 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 we read, "Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ."

1 Peter 2:6-8, "Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, 'Behold, I lay in Zion a chief Cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.' Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, 'The Stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief Cornerstone,' and 'A Stone of stumbling and a Rock of offense.' They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed."

1 Corinthians 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Only Jesus Christ is the Rock, Petra, "a large stone." Peter was a small stone Petros, "a rock or a stone".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We read in the C2000 Commentary on Matthew 16, written by Pastor Chuck Smith:
http://www.blueletterbible.org...Matthew&ar=Mat_16_18

Matthew 16:18, "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

We have one of two choices. (1) The church is built upon Peter, or (2) the church is build upon Peter's confession, that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God.

The Catholics assert that the church was built on Peter. There are problems with this. Number one, Jesus said unto him, "Thou art Petros," which in the Greek is a little stone. And then He declared, "upon this Petras," which is a giant stone, "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The church was not build upon the little stone, but upon the giant rock; "Thou art Petros," a little stone, "upon this Petras" -- Jesus Christ.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the Matthew 16 Commentary written by Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset & David Brown:
http://www.blueletterbible.org...Matthew&ar=Mat_16_18

Matthew 16:19, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Whatever this mean, it was soon expressly extended to all the apostles (Matthew 18:18); so that the claim of supreme authority in the Church, made for Peter by the Church of Rome, and then arrogated to themselves by the popes as the legitimate successors of St. Peter, is baseless and impudent.

As first in confessing Christ, Peter got this commission before the rest; and with these "keys," on the day of Pentecost, he first "opened the door of faith" to the Jews, and then, in the person of Cornelius, he was honored to do the same to the Gentiles. Hence, in the lists of the apostles, Peter is always first named. See on Jamieson, Fausset & Brown for Matthew 18:18.

One thing is clear, that not in all the New Testament is there the vestige of any authority either claimed or exercised by Peter, or conceded to him, above the rest of the apostles -- a thing conclusive against the Roman Catholic claims in behalf of that apostle.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Finally, David, you declare, "That was the Christianity of the early days of Christianity and that is the Catholic Church of today."

Wrong on both counts. The Christianity of the early church is exactly what we read in Acts 2:42, 44, "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. . . And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common."

No rituals, no fancy robes, no ceremonies! Just plain and simple fellowship, worship, teaching, and prayer -- such as we have in Christian churches today.

The Roman Catholic church of today is totally immersed in rituals, traditions, fancy robes and hats, ceremonies, and false teachings. And, the Roman Catholic church of today attempts to elevate the pope to the level of Jesus Christ -- infallible.

And, the Roman Catholic church attempts to strip Jesus Christ of His role as Sole Mediator between God and man -- by assigning the the role of Co-Mediator to Mary.

These things are NOT Biblical.

Sorry, my Friend, but your statement is wrong on all counts.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SOLA-FEDE_Outline
Bill,

Peter's Presence in Rome

"Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars[of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. "
Clement of Rome,The First Epistle of Clement,5(c.A.D. 96),in ANF,I:6

"I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you."
Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Romans,4(c.A.D. 110),in ANF,I:75

'You have thus by such an admonition bound together the plantings of Peter and Paul at Rome and Corinth."
Dionysius of Corinth, Epistle to Pope Soter,fragment in Eusebius' Church History,II:25(c.A.D. 178),in NPNF2,I:130

"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome,and laying the foundations of the Church."
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,3:1:1(c.A.D. 180),in ANF,I:414

"As Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome, and declared the Gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had followed him for a long time and remembered his sayings, should write them out."
Clement of Alexandria, fragment in Eusebius Church History,VI:14,6(A.D. 190), in NPNF2,I:261

'We read the lives of the Caesars: At Rome Nero was the first who stained with blood the rising blood. Then is Peter girt by another(an allusion to John 21:18), when he is made fast to the cross."
Tertullian, Scorpiace,15:3(A.D. 212),in ANF,III:648

"[W]hat utterance also the Romans give, so very near(to the apostles), to whom Peter and Paul conjointly bequeathed the gospel even sealed with their own blood."
Tertullian, Against Marcion,4:5(inter A.D. 207-212),in ANF,III:350

"It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero. This account of Peter and Paul is substantiated by the fact that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day. It is confirmed likewise by Caius, a member of the Church, who arose under Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome. He, in a published disputation with Proclus, the leader of the Phrygian heresy, speaks as follows concerning the places where the sacred corpses of the aforesaid apostles are laid: 'But I can show the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you will find the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church.' "
Gaius, fragment in Eusebius' Church History,2:25(A.D. 198),in NPNF2,I:129-130

"Peter...at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way."
Origen,Third Commentary on Genesis,(A.D. 232) fragment in Eusebius 3:1:1,in NPNF2,X:132
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
hi snake.......... When your wrong your wrong. Go back and read it again, It's all correct.

Your information is what's wrong, where do you come up with this make believe change of
history? Do think 2000 year's ago they said "Let's fool snake gray"

Hi Child,

You show that I am right in the way your respond. Instead of giving me a supported, factual response -- you retreat to the old atheist trick -- call them names and insult them -- then, they may not notice that you have not answered the question or comment.

Sorry, my Friend, but you came on the Religion Forum with a copy/paste of an article some lady had written -- and, I refuted that article with supported facts and sources. It was not an attack against you or your church -- but, simply refuting the false statements made in the article you posted.

Child, if you hang a target -- you must expect people to shoot at it. So, how can you get angry and call me names -- just because I hit the bulls eye?

I, too, encourage you not to leave the Religion Forum. However, do not get angry and get nasty just because I, or someone else, do not agree with what you post.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:

I'll say goodbye to the TD newspaper and stay in south alabama and other forums. It will be
good to not hear your yapping corny silly stuff. I can't think of anyone else I won't miss.


GC,

Go if you must,but I would like to see you stay. Don't worry about some of us in
the snake pit, we'll be OK. Don't forget to drop by sometime.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Child,

You show that I am right in the way your (sic) respond. Instead of giving me a supported, factual response -- (sic) you retreat to the old atheist trick -- call them names and insult them -- then, [hope] they may not notice that you have not answered the question or comment.



Of course this strategy is completely different than criticizing spelling and grammar ad nauseum, hoping that they may not notice that you have not answered the question or comment.

Have a blissed day, Bill.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?
So, Child, to answer the questions posed by your lady author: "Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?"

No, but, Constantine did, in effect, invent Roman Catholicism when he gave us the root beginning of the Roman Catholic church, the Church of Rome.

Bill



snake boy

You're wrong about roman and catholic, There is no difference between Catholic and Roman Catholic.

We all know about pentecost. Peter, the head of the church, and the other apostles took the word
of God to the world.

Why do try to replace Jesus with constantine? Jesus found the catholic roman catholic catholic
roman church Period. did he not? Were their any other christians besides catholics on earth? NO.

The universal Catholic Christian Church started Easter sunday. Before I didn't care what you
did with the word universal, but you try to confuse people. Other people have used the word
universal in their protestant church names and they are correct. what you do is wrong, Got It?

Only a habitual liberal lying deceiver will try to make people believe what is twisted.

When you try to seperate catholic,roman,universal to people who actually know the history
you come off looking like a big than life Fool.

Your wannabe religion just won't work with history.
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Did Constantine Invent Catholicism?

Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was used before the end of the first century. She writes:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluble (sic) information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to describe the Church.

We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised (sic) and professed that Jesus is Lord. During his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily growing and might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.



hi snake.......... When your wrong your wrong. Go back and read it again, It's all correct.

Your information is what's wrong, where do you come up with this make believe change of
history? Do think 2000 year's ago they said "Let's fool snake gray",no. documentation
was very important and correct. why would it not be? You and your other catholic haters
are still writing false doctrine. Do you think you're the first flaming uncontrollable
enemy of Jesus and his church?

Do you think you will prevail with your lies when the gates of hell can't win?

I have never understood your hate for what is so holy. I do understand someone misguided
as you, but your not, you just hate.

There was no protestant record keeping for about 1500 year's. But you did get your first
bible in 1611. by way of the Catholic church. And to be frank you messed that up as well.

I'll say goodbye to the TD newspaper and stay in south alabama and other forums. It will be
good to not hear your yapping corny silly stuff. I can't think of anyone else I won't miss.




Gifted,

Please don't go...... stay, vp, Kraven and me, need your voice.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Well Bill, so far you have run off two, that we know of.

Feeling proud of yourself?


That is just this month. Bill's been running people off for over two years, now. Someone used to keep a running score of the souls Bill had saved versus lost. The lost column far exceeded the saved column.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×