Hi to my Praying Friends,

Last Thursday, I asked you to pray for 2 year old Edley Lattimore who was having open heart surgery at Children's Hospital in Detroit.  He came through the surgery and seemed to be doing fine.  But, as you can see from the e-mail below, he has developed a problem.

Please keep this child, his doctors, and his family in your prayers.

Thank you and God bless,

Bill   

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Subject:  Little Edley    Date:  Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:31:40 -0700

From:  Nancy     To:  Bill Gray   

Hello Bill.  Just wanted to let  you know that our little man has had a setback.  His placelets are pretty low and his blood is not  clotting properly.  They gave him a transfusion this afternoon, so it is wait and see.  The doctors said they might have to operate  again and check the artery they repaired if things don't improve.  We are uneasy, but know that he is in God's hands.

Nancy

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  God bless, Bill

 

Good Friends Are Like Stars

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Original Post
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

And, once again, pairing your prayer with an actual donation not only has the potential of actually helping this child but will ease the pain of other children as well.

 

You can send as little as ONE PENNY while will accomplish infinitely more than a thousand prayers. 


http://www.chmfoundation.org/donation

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I've never wished Hell for any one because I can't imagine the horror

and pain, uno, why do you keep wishing for it?

.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Praying Friends,

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  
Bill

**************************************************

Maybe I missed something but please show me where any non-believer wished death upon this child???

I lived the ordeal of losing a child I gave birth to that God killed when my child was 12 years old.

Why would I wish that upon any parent or child? (which I did not.)

If you hate us non-believers so bad, & fear we may post in this topic, why not send a PM to the Christians here that you love so much, but continue to ridicule & put down?

 

Ok, you can delete this topic now.


Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Praying Friends,

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  
Bill

**************************************************

Maybe I missed something but please show me where any non-believer wished death upon this child???

I lived the ordeal of losing a child I gave birth to that God killed when my child was 12 years old.

Why would I wish that upon any parent or child? (which I did not.)

If you hate us non-believers so bad, & fear we may post in this topic, why not send a PM to the Christians here that you love so much, but continue to ridicule & put down?

 

Ok, you can delete this topic now.

 

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semi, define what uno is doing at the expense of the child.

 

.


 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
semi, define what uno is doing at the expense of the child.
**************************************

 Bill posted:

For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified.

 

If Uno wished death upon that child, I didn't see it but I can't see anyone wishing such a thing.

As for his talk of donations, I can't speak for Uno. I myself, mentioned St. Jude in the other topic as a good place to support but it wasn't meant as anything against Little Edley.

 

Bill asked that his "detractors" not bother replying & I find that a mean thing for him to do. I wished that child good health from the beginning but because Bill considers me trash not worth stepping on, he let me know my well wishes wasn't wanted, & that I cared nothing for that child.

 

Just because I have questions, & refuse to wear the Christian hat, doesn't mean that I don't have a heart.

Originally Posted by b50m:

I lived the ordeal of losing a child I gave birth to that God killed when my child was 12 years old.

 

How do you determine God killed your child Semi?

**************************************

b, hundred's of people, myself included, stood on the Word, believing prayers would be answered for my child to live. If God chose to ignore those prayers, who killed him?

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

And, once again, pairing your prayer with an actual donation not only has the potential of actually helping this child but will ease the pain of other children as well.

You can send as little as ONE PENNY while will accomplish infinitely more than a thousand prayers.

********************************************

Uno, you've been very kind to me in your PM, & I understand the importance of donations for research to help any disease that strikes a child. I respectfully ask that you please let these people know that you do not wish any ill will for this child.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
If Uno wished death upon that child, I didn't see it but I can't see anyone wishing such a thing.
------

No, of course I never said such a thing but I'm not surprised the loving Christians would accuse me of it.  I'm sure the child could still use donations, folks.
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
. I respectfully ask that you please let these people know that you do not wish any ill will for this child.

----

Honestly, Semi, I could not care less what these fake Christians think of me or my intentions.  I think you and I and a few other rational folks know who the "real deals" are here.

 

Peace be with you.

And whether we send money, healing energy, good thoughts, or good wishes why would it matter as long as our intent was positive for the child?  Wouldn't all good wishes of any kind be welcome?  

 

I'm sure we all wish him the best.  This can simply be a call for positive thoughts/prayers/donations/energy or whatever good stuff we have to send.  It doesn't have to be anything else

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
semi, define what uno is doing at the expense of the child.
**************************************

 Bill posted:

For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified.

  

Just because I have questions, & refuse to wear the Christian hat, doesn't mean that I don't have a heart.

----------------------------------------
semi, don't let Billie get to you, uno didn't do anything to the child.

(that we know of) Why don't you start a new thread for Little Edley.

Thats better for the child anyway.

 

.

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

I lived the ordeal of losing a child I gave birth to that God killed when my child was 12 years old.

 

How do you determine God killed your child Semi?

**************************************

b, hundred's of people, myself included, stood on the Word, believing prayers would be answered for my child to live. If God chose to ignore those prayers, who killed him?

I guess you could say that.  Then every one that didn't get what they prayed for was ignored. Everyone that has died was killed by God.

 

I am sorry you lost a child, I have lost older members of my family, of course, but I never thought God killed them because they died.

 

I obviously don't know the circumstances but it seems that if he died from accident or illness, I would not blame God.

 

I think the atheists like to look at things that way.  God kills but medicine saves. Or by luck, or random chance, or the bullet missed. All bad things come from God but good things happen by accident. It is a paradox to me.

 

Not trying to argue with you and I am not belittling your view, I have a dear friend who lost both her son and her brother within a few years of each other, but she never blamed God.

 

Different view of things.

I think the atheists like to look at things that way.  God kills but medicine saves. Or by luck, or random chance, or the bullet missed. All bad things come from God but good things happen by accident. It is a paradox to me.

 

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No B-atheists look at it like this. Life happens. Life kills. BUT christians keep praising their god and telling everyone that their prayers will be answered, from their god ALL blessings flow, with their god ALL things are possible if a person only asks. They constantly THANK their god for all the wonderful wonderful blessings he gives them. They talk constantly about how god saved them or their loved ones, and what a wonderful caring god he is. When the tornados came through here there were people praying and they will swear that saved them. We sat in our "safe place" in our house and rode it out without prayer. We had damage but nothing like some of our neighbors had, including loss of their life for some.

 

 How many people died that day right in the middle of their prayers? Why was a 17 month old baby killed but the rest of his family spared? Why was our friend killed, jerked from her husband and children, and they survived?  Do you say the mother got to see her loving god kill her child and the husband and children got to see that loving god kill his wife and their mother? Or do you say god is SO good because he spared the rest of them?  New Bethel church was leveled, but this evil atheist made it through. Go figure.

 

Now with that "said", of course we wonder and have to ask, since ALL this good flows from your god, why do you praise him for the good and relieve him of all blame for the bad? Isn't he the one you just said was large and in charge and responsible for everything? No atheist blames a god for anything. There is no god to blame.

I wasn't going to mention the child but to heck with bill. I'm sick of him and some others telling me how I feel or think about things. This baby is going to live or die depending on circumstances beyond anyone's control. What I hope and wish for this child is that he lives, is never sick again, and never again has to go through an ordeal like this. I wish also that this child had never had to go through it in the first place.

I don't see ANYTHING in Bill's posts on this subject, in EITHER thread, that imply he thinks anyone wished death on this child. The way I read it, Bill is asking that instead of getting into the same arguments on this thread as we do in all the others, that we just wish the child well, pray for him, and then let it drop.

 

I did the same thing when Jay died. I wanted to inform those who care about me, or those who prayed for him OR wished him well without praying, that he had passed away. So to keep the conversation from getting ugly, I asked that no one respond.

 

Of course, there WERE two responses, despite my wishes, and both were from atheists. The first was a kind message from Unob, telling me he was sorry I lost my friend and that he appreciated my short "tribute" to Jay. The second was from my old friend Blue, expressing pretty much the same sentiments.

 

Even though I didn't want to talk about it, I DO appreciate the things both Unob and Blue said.

 

It's just too bad it couldn't have gone that way in THIS thread. When someone is seriously ill, I believe we should have enough respect for the ill person AND the one who asked for prayer or positive thoughts, to suspend our arguments in THAT thread. It's not as if there is no other place to argue - pick a thread, any thread. Just leave the sensitive ones about sick loved ones alone.

quote:    Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

I wasn't going to mention the child but to heck with bill. I'm sick of him and some others telling me how I feel or think about things. This baby is going to live or die depending on circumstances beyond anyone's control. What I hope and wish for this child is that he lives, is never sick again, and never again has to go through an ordeal like this. I wish also that this child had never had to go through it in the first place. 


Hi Jennifer,

 

Thank you for your prayer above on behalf of the toddler, Edley. 

 

God bless, have  a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Thank you Frog. Jay was my best friend and one of the finest guitarists I ever knew. He died from cancer in May. I will always miss him, but all the songs we played together, all of the things he taught me about guitar repair, music, and life, will be with me always.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Thank you Frog. Jay was my best friend and one of the finest guitarists I ever knew. He died from cancer in May. I will always miss him, but all the songs we played together, all of the things he taught me about guitar repair, music, and life, will be with me always.


He sounds like an amazing and gifted person, and I know he is with you...I'm sorry for your loss, but it sounds as if you gained a lot from knowing him.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

No invictus, sending best wishes and a hope for a good outcome isn't praying, and doesn't involve a mythical man in the sky. It only takes a sincere wish that something good happens to that person. Sad if you don't know the difference.

---------------------------

So, is the retreat off??

 

.

See...Frog?

Another example of the lunacy.

Bill KNEW when he posted this it would turn into another $h*tstorm. After all, the first one he posted did. And he deleted it. Yet! He went ahead and went public instead of PMing the ones he KNEW would be positive to his request. While his sincerity towards this child may be 100%, he KNEW it would be another "fest" and that's where I believe HE instigates. It's pretty hard to see any Christian "love" in that. Just lunacy.

Then again you have Unob. What would it have hurt to have left the Christians alone in this request?

Nothing. What "right" of his did it encroach on? What "persecution" did it pile on him?

No, no matter what his professed intelligence / morals, he just has to crank it up a notch on most, if not all posts. Psycho.

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

Semi is not included in this, nor any other posts I direct. Semi is a good person at heart, but she is hurting. I now know why, and wish there was something I could do, as I can't imagine losing one of my children. I can only wish her the best, and hope somehow she can find peace.

Now, as I said, I don't claim to be a nice Christian, or, a nice atheist. But I can, and will be nice to those who exhibit SOME form of decency toward their fellow HUMANS no matter what their beliefs.

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

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Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

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Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

 See, Frog...

I just "pulled her string"! 

Calm down Mannifer. 

Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:

See...Frog?

Another example of the lunacy.

Bill KNEW when he posted this it would turn into another $h*tstorm. After all, the first one he posted did. And he deleted it. Yet! He went ahead and went public instead of PMing the ones he KNEW would be positive to his request. While his sincerity towards this child may be 100%, he KNEW it would be another "fest" and that's where I believe HE instigates. It's pretty hard to see any Christian "love" in that. Just lunacy.

Then again you have Unob. What would it have hurt to have left the Christians alone in this request?

Nothing. What "right" of his did it encroach on? What "persecution" did it pile on him?

No, no matter what his professed intelligence / morals, he just has to crank it up a notch on most, if not all posts. Psycho.

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

Semi is not included in this, nor any other posts I direct. Semi is a good person at heart, but she is hurting. I now know why, and wish there was something I could do, as I can't imagine losing one of my children. I can only wish her the best, and hope somehow she can find peace.

Now, as I said, I don't claim to be a nice Christian, or, a nice atheist. But I can, and will be nice to those who exhibit SOME form of decency toward their fellow HUMANS no matter what their beliefs.


I see nothing wrong with posting a thread asking for prayers, and I don't see a need for anyone to say anything nasty. 

 

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  God bless, Bill

 

The quoted part from Bill does change the tone of the thread in my opinion, too.  So if I didn't believe in prayer but could send Reiki, good thoughts, wishes, suggestions, experiences that might uplift the child, or ask where to donate money I wouldn't be welcome to post in the thread?  For our detractors don't bother?  I am going to delete the discussion?

 

I understand why someone would want to ask people to be kind and just offer whatever they can to the child, but dismissing others and telling people not to bother to me seems to invite the very posts the op didn't want.  I am not saying it was on purpose since I have no idea, but just saying that "Please, everyone, please offer prayers or whatever you can to this child, and I am asking you to please help this child" and leaving it at that might not be so inviting?  Just a thought...

 

I don't see any "psychos" here myself, but merely a forum with some posters who have gotten into the habit of sniping or maybe aren't thinking about how their words affect others...or perhaps have another agenda besides discussing topics and giving support when needed.  Really this thread could be a simple request for anyone who is interested to send whatever form of hope and help to a sick child.  Anything else besides takes away from the purpose of the thread.

 

Any time someone calls people names, insinuates people aren't educated or have no right to post, says things like, "People like you can't understand", "the animals they are", or countless things people say that just incite anger and defensiveness, then the thread devolves into something that is unpleasant for anyone just trying to have a conversation.  I know some like drama and excitement, and it's really easy to get caught up in trying to prove ourselves right or innocent, but it's too bad it changes the whole energy of the forum.  Just my two cents.

Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

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Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

 See, Frog...

I just "pulled her string"! 

Calm down Mannifer

That is the part I don't get.  What do you get from pulling people's strings?  I thought it was a religious forum?

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

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Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

 See, Frog...

I just "pulled her string"! 

Calm down Mannifer

That is the part I don't get.  What do you get from pulling people's strings?  I thought it was a religious forum?

 I think I may be turning...Atheist???

Ya think?

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

 See, Frog...

I just "pulled her string"! 

Calm down Mannifer

That is the part I don't get.  What do you get from pulling people's strings?  I thought it was a religious forum?

  

 

You appear to "don't get it" quiet often here lately. 

Maybe I'm turning Atheist?  Ya think?

Originally Posted by frog:

I see nothing wrong with posting a thread asking for prayers, and I don't see a need for anyone to say anything nasty. 

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  God bless, Bill

 

The quoted part from Bill does change the tone of the thread in my opinion, too.  So if I didn't believe in prayer but could send Reiki, good thoughts, wishes, suggestions, experiences that might uplift the child, or ask where to donate money I wouldn't be welcome to post in the thread?  For our detractors don't bother?  I am going to delete the discussion?

 

I understand why someone would want to ask people to be kind and just offer whatever they can to the child, but dismissing others and telling people not to bother to me seems to invite the very posts the op didn't want.  I am not saying it was on purpose since I have no idea, but just saying that "Please, everyone, please offer prayers or whatever you can to this child, and I am asking you to please help this child" and leaving it at that might not be so inviting?  Just a thought...

 

Just my two cents.

**************************************

A well written thought & two cents.

 

Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:
Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Bennifer just joins in to be included. I don't think she has very much education. I guess that's where my "psycho" comes into play...I really don't dislike her.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Really ellie? You think I just want to be "included"? Included in what please tell? If I wanted to be in a clique on a newspaper forum or anywhere else I'd do like you do and kiss ***.  And yes, you dislike me, you've been nothing but a snippy little ***** from day one. Apparently you posted something you thought was hella funny or clever and I didn't pay homage to it. Oh well, such is life. I don't like bullies or bully wannabes either. You'd love to be a bully but you don't have the firepower to pull it off. So that just leaves you looking like a frustrated old **** that attacks and runs down people on a forum while complaining that others do it. For you to try to disparage my education is funny considering I've never seen you post anything past a 4th grade level unless you copied and pasted it, and quite frankly I'm surprised you managed to figure out how to do that.

 See, Frog...

I just "pulled her string"! 

Calm down Mannifer

That is the part I don't get.  What do you get from pulling people's strings?  I thought it was a religious forum?

  

 

You appear to "don't get it" quiet often here lately. 

Maybe I'm turning Atheist?  Ya think?


Sigh...I'm assuming you are insulting atheists again.  And you are right.  I do seem to say that a lot, don't I?  Perhaps I should just stop trying to understand the fun of a bunch of insults and sniping and realize that this is the norm and move on.  Perhaps I'm just too fluffy to be here.  

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by frog:

I see nothing wrong with posting a thread asking for prayers, and I don't see a need for anyone to say anything nasty. 

Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  God bless, Bill

 

The quoted part from Bill does change the tone of the thread in my opinion, too.  So if I didn't believe in prayer but could send Reiki, good thoughts, wishes, suggestions, experiences that might uplift the child, or ask where to donate money I wouldn't be welcome to post in the thread?  For our detractors don't bother?  I am going to delete the discussion?

 

I understand why someone would want to ask people to be kind and just offer whatever they can to the child, but dismissing others and telling people not to bother to me seems to invite the very posts the op didn't want.  I am not saying it was on purpose since I have no idea, but just saying that "Please, everyone, please offer prayers or whatever you can to this child, and I am asking you to please help this child" and leaving it at that might not be so inviting?  Just a thought...

 

Just my two cents.

**************************************

A well written thought & two cents.

 

Yeah frog, but thats just the way Billie-jo thinks. He's put himself above

everyone else. I learned that everything he does is for what he feels

makes him look better in the eyes of the people around him.

They have told him different, but he can't stop now.

 

Seems as if he can't talk to someone without talking down to them.
.

Originally Posted by O No!:

I don't see ANYTHING in Bill's posts on this subject, in EITHER thread, that imply he thinks anyone wished death on this child. The way I read it, Bill is asking that instead of getting into the same arguments on this thread as we do in all the others, that we just wish the child well, pray for him, and then let it drop.

 

*****************************

O No, Invictus asked me to define what uno is doing at the expense of the child.

Bill made the statement that the “detractors” not bother sending any best wishes for this child, that after “those who care have been notified” the topic would be deleted.

I made the statement to Invictus that if Uno wished death upon that child, I didn't see it but that I couldn’t see anyone wishing such a thing. So the blame lies with me for those words. I didn’t say Bill said anyone wished it, nor do I believe Uno would wish it. I was trying to make a point but it seems some didn't get it.

 

Bill was nasty in his request that the “detractors” not bother sending any best wishes for this child.  Why not? Why does it have to be only prayers that are accepted? Why are best wishes for improvement from a non-Christian not allowed? I’m sorry but Bill is nothing but a hat wearing “Christian” that likes to dictate to everyone, & I will not allow him to dictate to me.

 

Bill knew exactly what he was doing when he said the "detractors" need not reply. Just wait & see if he doesn't start another topic about us "detractors".

 

 

Originally Posted by frog:

And whether we send money, healing energy, good thoughts, or good wishes why would it matter as long as our intent was positive for the child?  Wouldn't all good wishes of any kind be welcome?  

 

I'm sure we all wish him the best.  This can simply be a call for positive thoughts/prayers/donations/energy or whatever good stuff we have to send.  It doesn't have to be anything else

**************************************

Great comments, & entirely true.

Semi, I think Bill was just trying to prevent this thread from turning ugly the way the other one on this topic did. He didn't say he wouldn't want anyone's good wishes for the child. What he meant by detractors is the ones who ridicule the very prayers he was asking for. Remember JimiHendrix' old standby line - "Prayer is the least effective thing you can do"? THAT'S the type of thing he was trying to avoid.

 

I'm sure the child's parents have access to a computer, and because Bill has told them about asking us for prayers, they probably see what is written here. The last thing they need right now is to read comments like the one Jimi made.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by O No!:

I don't see ANYTHING in Bill's posts on this subject, in EITHER thread, that imply he thinks anyone wished death on this child. The way I read it, Bill is asking that instead of getting into the same arguments on this thread as we do in all the others, that we just wish the child well, pray for him, and then let it drop.

 

*****************************

O No, Invictus asked me to define what uno is doing at the expense of the child.

Bill made the statement that the “detractors” not bother sending any best wishes for this child, that after “those who care have been notified” the topic would be deleted.

I made the statement to Invictus that if Uno wished death upon that child, I didn't see it but that I couldn’t see anyone wishing such a thing. So the blame lies with me for those words. I didn’t say Bill said anyone wished it, nor do I believe Uno would wish it. I was trying to make a point but it seems some didn't get it.

 

Bill was nasty in his request that the “detractors” not bother sending any best wishes for this child.  Why not? Why does it have to be only prayers that are accepted? Why are best wishes for improvement from a non-Christian not allowed? I’m sorry but Bill is nothing but a hat wearing “Christian” that likes to dictate to everyone, & I will not allow him to dictate to me.

 

Bill knew exactly what he was doing when he said the "detractors" need not reply. Just wait & see if he doesn't start another topic about us "detractors".

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

semi, the reason I said--define what uno was doing at the expense of the child,

was the child was caught between uno's hatred for prayer and all the focus

on it. He beat that "donation" idea non stop, knowing it's distraction would

screw up the whole cause. Read uno's wording and you'll get his drift.

 

You didn't say anything wrong semi.

.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Semi, He didn't say he wouldn't want anyone's good wishes for the child. What he meant by detractors is the ones who ridicule the very prayers he was asking for. Remember JimiHendrix' old standby line - "Prayer is the least effective thing you can do"? THAT'S the type of thing he was trying to avoid.

 

I'm sure the child's parents have access to a computer, and because Bill has told them about asking us for prayers, they probably see what is written here.

*****************************

O No, I respectfully disagree with you. What Bill said was "I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother".

You notice he said for those who believe in God & prayer. Those of us that are not believers or are doubters, our well wishes aren't welcome.

In Bill's eyes, we "detractors" are all like  JimiHendrix.

The “detractors” are any of us here that is not his chosen few. He wanted to avoid any of us that doesn't fit his ideas.

 

I think what he said in the first topic was that he was sending her the prayers of the people he knew. I don't think he mentioned the small town newspaper forum name. He's to full of himself to want those people to read here & know what he's really thought of by most people on this forum. He wouldn't want them see the real Bill Gray.

 

 

 

Well another thread down the drain.

 

The first one turned nasty, and this one is going the same way.

 

I think Bill is very happy with any good thoughts, vibes, karma, prayers, wishes, or anything good.

 

And I would guess that the family is reading this.

 

So, if they are or even if they are not, I am hoping, wishing, and praying for a good outcome to this crises and I hope they find strength in their faith, their family, their friends, and their doctors.

quote:   Originally Posted by ReleaseTheElephant:

Another example of the lunacy.  Bill KNEW when he posted this it would turn into another $h*tstorm. After all, the first one he posted did. And he deleted it. Yet! He went ahead and went public instead of PMing the ones he KNEW would be positive to his request. 


Hi RTE,

 

Yes, I could have sent a PM to the Christians who post on the forum.  However, what about those Christians who do not post, but come here to read?  How would they have the opportunity to pray for this child -- if I did not post it on the open forum?

 

As I have said many times; I do not write just for those who are active members -- but, for all who read the Religion Forum.  And, who can say how many prayers went to the throne room of God -- because of TimesDaily Religion Forum readers?   That may be lunacy to those who do not believe.  But, to we who know God, it is the natural thing to do -- pray for one another.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by b50m:
I think the atheists like to look at things that way.  God kills but medicine saves. Or by luck, or random chance, or the bullet missed. All bad things come from God but good things happen by accident. It is a paradox to me.
--------

Jesus Christ. How can you be here for so long and not understand this?  B50: Atheists DO NOT BELIEVE IN GODS.  It's really, really simple.

Yes, we often "blame god" for the evils of the world here in this forum but it is assumed that you would understand we are being satiric or sarcastic.  We are asserting that IF your god exists then he certainly IS responsible for the evil in the world and are trying to help you see the reasoning. 

And, of course, we utterly fail. 
Originally Posted by b50m:

I think Bill is very happy with any good thoughts, vibes, karma, prayers, wishes, or anything good.

------

 

Well anything but actual help in the form of monetary donations that would undoubtedly help this child or another like him. 

Just a friendly reminder that prayer is useless and - as clearly demonstrated in this thread - relives the believer of responsibility for his fellow man. 

 

Nothing fails like prayer.

Well another thread down the drain.

 

The first one turned nasty, and this one is going the same way.

 

I think Bill is very happy with any good thoughts, vibes, karma, prayers, wishes, or anything good.

 

And I would guess that the family is reading this.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Has there ever been a thread about anything that didn't go off subject? Reading back I can see where the thread "turned nasty" if you want to call it that. I also see bill's response to best wishes sent to the child. As I told bill on another thread I don't think he should have put the child's name and information in the forum. It's not a good thing to do and IF there was a nutjob that started harassing the family bill would blame the atheists. The family isn't reading this, there's no way bill would let anyone see how he acts here and what some people really think of him. I would bet any amount of money that he is off on other forums talking about how atheists attacked the child when he ask people to pray for him.

 

 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
 

Well anything but actual help in the form of monetary donations that would undoubtedly help this child or another like him. 

Just a friendly reminder that prayer is useless and - as clearly demonstrated in this thread - relives the believer of responsibility for his fellow man. 

 

Nothing fails like prayer.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

But you take it upon yourself, uno to beat the face of the child and parents

against a sharp rock to remind everyone what an up standing thing you are.

If you say you wanted to help thats your biggest lie yet.

 

If you say you can't control your hate, your right.  Again, Sick and Sad.

 

.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by b50m:
I think the atheists like to look at things that way.  God kills but medicine saves. Or by luck, or random chance, or the bullet missed. All bad things come from God but good things happen by accident. It is a paradox to me.
--------

Jesus Christ. How can you be here for so long and not understand this?  B50: Atheists DO NOT BELIEVE IN GODS.  It's really, really simple.

Yes, we often "blame god" for the evils of the world here in this forum but it is assumed that you would understand we are being satiric or sarcastic.  We are asserting that IF your god exists then he certainly IS responsible for the evil in the world and are trying to help you see the reasoning. 

And, of course, we utterly fail. 

Yeah, and you just said on another thread that maybe God has left the Christians and is guiding the atheists.

I know you are being sarcastic. DUH, EVERYONE knows you are being sarcastic. Waste of your effort, don't ya think? You just come off looking vindictive, hateful, and cruel about something you CLAIM has no impact on your life and that you don't believe in.

 

And AGAIN, just because people are not on here engaging in childish bets with you doesn't mean they are not doing ALL they can, included sending monetary funds to help.

 

 

Thinking of the family again today. Best wishes.

Originally Posted by b50m:

Well another thread down the drain.

The first one turned nasty, and this one is going the same way.

I think Bill is very happy with any good thoughts, vibes, karma, prayers, wishes, or anything good.

 

And I would guess that the family is reading this.

 

So, if they are or even if they are not, I am hoping, wishing, and praying for a good outcome to this crises and I hope they find strength in their faith, their family, their friends, and their doctors.

************************************

b, I'm sorry you feel that we "unbelievers/doubters" have turned this topic nasty. I respectfully disagree with you. When Bill said "I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother", he  knew that would get on the wrong side of some people here. In my opinion, he started the nastiness with that comment. If Bill would be very happy with any good thoughts, vibes, karma, prayers, wishes, or anything good, why say that his post was only for those that believe in God & prayer??? He made a point & knew exactly what he was doing when he put that in there, especially the part about the detractors.

 

It's hard for me to believe that Bill would send that family the link to this topic when it would show him in his true light. This has been mentioned 2 or 3 times. Have you noticed that Bill hasn't acknowledged if he sent it to that family or not?

My bet is that he hasn't. Maybe you should ask him if he has & why he hasn't deleted this topic already?

 

 

b, I'm sorry you feel that we "unbelievers/doubters" have turned this topic nasty. I respectfully disagree with you.

 

And where exactly did I say that semi?

 

I said the first thread turned nasty and this one is going the same way. I never said by who.

 

I'm sure Bill mentioned this forum or did give a link. As for deleting it, that is Bill's decision, not mine

 

I'm also sure that the atheists would love for it to stay so they can ridicule prayer some more..

 

Anything to have a little fun at the expense of a bad situation.

Geez.  Does it never end?  "The evil atheists" versus "the close-minded Christians" and who is worse, better, can achieve more, who started this or that, who really has an agenda, whose method is better, who's right, who's wrong....does it never end?  It comes from all sides and it just sucks.

 

There is a little boy who is sick.  What was worded what right or shouldn't have said whatever isn't the point of the thread.  The point is that it is possible..I promise you it is...that we all just wish. pray, donate, think, or whatever we can do....for the sick child's health.  Who seriously cares who is best or knows the "right" way to send good thoughts?  Just for the record, the term "the atheists" is just as generalized and silly as "the Christians" since it is just as inaccurate.  This isn't a coliseum with gladiators, but a sick child who needs support, along with many, many others as well! 

 

I wonder if we were all standing over him at his bedside would it be possible to just wish him well and not argue over who is right?  If we took half the energy used on the religion forum to prove each other wrong and to insult each other and turned it to that child to help him ..toward the problems in our world and our neighborhoods and homes...think how much would get done and how many lives might be changed?  Geez.

Anything to have a little fun at the expense of a bad situation.

 

 

So B- you think atheists have fun at the expense of bad situations? You honestly want to say that atheists enjoy the thought of anybody's sickness and suffering, even children? Bill is a pompus self-serving you know what. He would not dare give this link to anyone he thinks he is impressing. Any negative remarks that have been made were in his direction, not against the child. So as far as I'm concerned he can take it down at any time and that way you, bill and all the others can claim that the atheists were enjoying the suffering of this child. Nice.

Originally Posted by frog:

        Geez.  Does it never end?  "The evil atheists" versus "the close-minded Christians" and who is worse, better, can achieve more, who started this or that, who really has an agenda, whose method is better, who's right, who's wrong....does it never end?  It comes from all sides and it just sucks.




I think TD should change the name of this particular forum section(religion) to the "Bitter bickering and hateful argumentative room" instead of "religion". Seems like that would be way more ****ing. It also has a nice ring to it.  LOL

Just an observation. Nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT: The filtered out word is supposed to be f i t t i n g.
Originally Posted by b50m:

And where exactly did I say that semi?

I said the first thread turned nasty and this one is going the same way. I never said by who.

As for deleting it, that is Bill's decision, not mine

I'm also sure that the atheists would love for it to stay so they can ridicule prayer some more..

Anything to have a little fun at the expense of a bad situation.

***********************************

You didnt' say, I just assumed that you wouldn't  believe it was the Christians that turned it nasty.

Since you assume the Atheist would love for it to stay so they can ridicule prayer some more, that kinda leads me to think you believe they turned it nasty. Atheist/non-Christians/doubters...we're all treated the same here. Most wouldn't spit on us if we were on fire.

I haven't seen anyone have what you call "fun at the expense" of a bad situation, (this sick child). I think everyone here wishes a healing for him.

Hopefully, the expertise of the doctor's & medications that are available today, will get him through this terrible time.

 

I didn't say it was your decision to delete this topic.

I said maybe you should ask him why he hasn't. After all, he said he would since those of us that he hates so bad have turned it nasty.

Bill asked for prayers and good wishes. The first thing up was Unob saying prayers are a waste of time and donate money. Then it became a war of money is better than prayers and prayers are the LEAST someone can do.

 

So it became a playground for the atheists belittling the religious for prayer, as these things always do.

 

No one wished the child anything but good luck BUT since all the flowing vile took over, that message was garbled in with the rest.

 

So yes, semi, I would say that the message Bill wanted got lost in the usual talking points of religion vs science vs money..

 

And yes, best, it was turned into a battlefield. As I stated, NO ONE wished the child anything but the best.

 

Had everyone simply said Best Wishes, prayers going up, good karma sent your way, etc... all could have been avoided.

 

 

Best wishes to the family.

b50m, the thread started out with a request for wishes, yes, but with the comment that wasn't very much in spirit with the topic.  Then the comment after it didn't help, and then it went downhill from there.  Does anyone see that comments about "the atheists"  (just keep things going and don't even make sense since it's just a generalization?  That comments about how effective prayer is just keep it all going?   This came from comments on all "sides", when all "sides" I would think just want to help the child.  Geez.  How about instead of them and us mentality we all join together with no snarky comments on any "sides" to wish the child the best?

 

We can all rehash who said what, why, and when, but since we can I think agree (from the posts that all say it) why not just say, "K, we got off track a bit" and say we hope the child is getting better????  I can really see how wars keep going for years.  One side says something and the other side just has to reply, then the first side has to top that one, and meanwhile the soldiers who got shot while everyone was arguing are bleeding on the ground.  Who wins the war then?  Will it be "the atheists" or "the Christians", or maybe a third group who comes along to take advantage of the first two groups arguing over who's right?  There is snark all over the forum, and it isn't just one group or another.

 

My kids do the same thing.  I want that...no, I want it.  bicker bicker and she did it and I didn't and she started it and I am just trying to help her and bicker bicker.  We get it solved enough that both are okay, and then one just has to get a little parting shot in.  So of course the whole thing starts over until they lose what they were fighting over or get in trouble.  And we wonder why our soldiers are still all over the world!  It's because someone has to get in a little parting zing....but they are kids and they are learning how to negotiate and treat others with respect, so I expect it from them.

 

So how is the child now?  Are there any updates by any chance?  I really would like to know how he's doing?

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

So it became a playground for the atheists belittling the religious for prayer, as these things always do.

 

 

Show me where I belittled the "religious" for prayer or praying? I posted some prayed, but I didn't and don't. How is that belittling?


That's the problem with saying "the atheists".  Not all do anything just as not all Christians do one thing or another.  Sigh.

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

So it became a playground for the atheists belittling the religious for prayer, as these things always do.

 

 

Show me where I belittled the "religious" for prayer or praying? I posted some prayed, but I didn't and don't. How is that belittling?


That's the problem with saying "the atheists".  Not all do anything just as not all Christians do one thing or another.  Sigh.

-----------------------------

Now that has become a problem frog, I don't mean there's a problem frog,

I mean the other problem thing.

 

.

Originally Posted by frog:

b50m, the thread started out with a request for wishes, yes, but with the comment that wasn't very much in spirit with the topic.  Then the comment after it didn't help, and then it went downhill from there.  Does anyone see that comments about "the atheists"  (just keep things going and don't even make sense since it's just a generalization?  That comments about how effective prayer is just keep it all going?   This came from comments on all "sides", when all "sides" I would think just want to help the child.  Geez.  How about instead of them and us mentality we all join together with no snarky comments on any "sides" to wish the child the best?

 

We can all rehash who said what, why, and when, but since we can I think agree (from the posts that all say it) why not just say, "K, we got off track a bit" and say we hope the child is getting better????  I can really see how wars keep going for years.  One side says something and the other side just has to reply, then the first side has to top that one, and meanwhile the soldiers who got shot while everyone was arguing are bleeding on the ground.  Who wins the war then?  Will it be "the atheists" or "the Christians", or maybe a third group who comes along to take advantage of the first two groups arguing over who's right?  There is snark all over the forum, and it isn't just one group or another.

 

My kids do the same thing.  I want that...no, I want it.  bicker bicker and she did it and I didn't and she started it and I am just trying to help her and bicker bicker.  We get it solved enough that both are okay, and then one just has to get a little parting shot in.  So of course the whole thing starts over until they lose what they were fighting over or get in trouble.  And we wonder why our soldiers are still all over the world!  It's because someone has to get in a little parting zing....but they are kids and they are learning how to negotiate and treat others with respect, so I expect it from them.

 

So how is the child now?  Are there any updates by any chance?  I really would like to know how he's doing?

 

Originally Posted by b50m:

Bill asked for prayers and good wishes.

********************************

Originally Posted by frog:

b50m, the thread started out with a request for wishes

*********************************************

I have a question & I won't be posting in this topic again. I'll read to see if anyone answers my question but that's it.

I'm sure it would make most of you happy if I stopped posting altogether, but at this point, it's just this topic.

 

I have put Bill's post below. Would anyone care to show me where I'm missing the words good wishes or wishes?

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Praying Friends,
Last Thursday, I asked you to pray for 2 year old Edley Lattimore who was having open heart surgery at Children's Hospital in Detroit.  He came through the surgery and seemed to be doing fine.  But, as you can see from the e-mail below, he has developed a problem.
Please keep this child, his doctors, and his family in your prayers.
Thank you and God bless,
Bill   
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note:  I have posted this for those who believe in God and believe in prayer.  For our detractors, don't bother -- for after those who care have been notified -- I am going to delete this discussion.  God bless, Bill

 

I think Unob made a good point way back. Sad, really, though.

However, he is wrong about one thing. I don't despise him and I don't despise Bill. I don't like a lot of what they post, but it has nothing to do with the person. I have lost my temper with both, but, hey, it's good for discussion.

 

Unob to Bill on: Yes, I deleted the discussion

 

You (and arguably I and a couple of others) are the most despised people on this forum.  We generate a great amount of animosity.  I would never expect any of the Christians here (except for Joy)  to respond kindly to any request I might make. Why in the world would you think differently?

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