Creationism

Hi Deep,

 

I can give you the answer in one word:   GOD!

 

See, now wasn't that easy?   I pray you have learned something.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Given that you already know the two categories of replies, what are you looking for?

 

He is looking for the only thing which sustains his atheist religion:  NOTHING!

 

Don't you love it when the answers are so easy?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

OK, so far, nothing that approaches intelligence from either angle.

 

Any others?

 

DF

Kinda sorta maybe along the same line:

 

 

 

I happened to be looking at a planetary nebula in the constellation Aquila, NGC 6781 to be exact, when I had an epiphany.  The dictionary defines an epiphany as "a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience".  The seeing conditions were so good, this nebula looked almost three dimensional, just floating there in space.  As I looked at the nebula, it just dawned on me...If God is real, and he created the universe, why would he stick that thing out there for no reason.  If God created the Heaven and the Earth, as described in the first chapter of Genesis, and we are unique in the universe, then what was all this other stuff out there for?  It may seem trivial to most, but that one question at that moment lead to more questions.

Slowly, things started to fall into place.  I began questioning the existence of the universe.  I realized that the matter in the universe served no purpose; that it really didn't benefit man.  Not only was the universe immense, it was old, much older than what the Bible described, but I never put two and two together.  I started to question other things that I observed around me; things that didn't make sense anymore, if one true benevolent god actually existed.

 

Deep,

I guess I just know too much about science to hand-wave a satisfactory answer for you and be truthful.

You will forever, along with all scientists, have to live with “God did it”.

There are simply no classical answers out there.

Well best, Derrick Miller looked out there like everyone else but he still gives no answers.

I've always been amused that the very things that support the existence of God, in my opinion, seem to atheists to deny him. The fact that there are millions of species in themselves rules out any accidental genesis of our ecosystem.

 

Best, the Bible says that God looked at the world and it was without form (inhabitants, perhaps?). It doesn't say how long the world was there before this event.

---

Please explain your logic, because on it's face, this statement is just ridiculous and ignorant.

Well, Robustus, much of my statement is based on reading various theses of evolution. Many have written concerning the possibility of life on other planets--specifically life "evolved" enough to have a complex or even semi-complex neural system. The chance of one species developing is less than one-tenth of one percent. (I have no idea how these researchers arrived at that figure, but we'll go with it unless you have an update.)

 

Of the two million or so species on earth (and I have read there may be as many as six million) I have no idea how many have a complex neural system, but I would venture a great deal. I also note that even such species as trees or daffodils, as NSNS mentioned, may not have neural systems, but are still complex.

 

Therefore it would take a statistician of some knowledge, not to mention spare time, to calculate the odds of all these species evolving from one single cell organism that originated from...oh, I forgot, you don't really consider that part of the scenario.

 

 

Don't you know?

 

It's simply an invitation to a discussion whether a glass is half full...or half empty.

PLUS!...  the debaters get to use words such as...ignorant, logic, science, intelligence, sky fairy,

and proven, with the OP being the umpire.

Same old...same old.

99% of all species that have existed on Earth are extinct. Not a very good record for an "intelligent" designer.

Come to think of it...YOU could be a good argument against intelligent design.

Over 99% of documented species are now extinct.

 

Meaning as scientists find more and more fossil records, that's another one to add to the extinct list. But, if the organism had no hard outer shell, or a inner support structure, no record of it will be found. That number is an arbitrary guess of what happened to species over millions of years. According to the theory of evolution, those species were not suited to survive. Many more species are being discovered every day, in the oceans and remote locations. To put any number on extinct species is arbitrary since the exact known numbers of ALL species is an 'unknown'.

 

God had nothing to do with it.

_________

So obviously true.

LOL.

 

Not my intended meaning crusty. But, if you don't buy evolution either, you're stuck.

I'll put it simply.

 

God started it. Evolution continued it. God will end it.

---

Hi B,

 

You are like I was for the first fifty years of my life -- believing that God is real; but, not a Christian believer -- no relationship with Jesus Christ.  You have told us this.

 

But, I have a serious question for you.  Why would God have needed, or even wanted, evolution to accomplish His Creation?  God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent (all places present).  It is obvious, at least to me, that when He began His days of Creation -- He accomplished it all in six lunar, i.e., 24 hour, days -- and, then He rested, i.e., He began the final period of world time -- from the end of day six to the day He creates a new heaven, new earth, and new Jerusalem to be our eternal home (Revelation 21).

 

So, where can one fit evolution into this picture?

 

And, when you say, "God started it.   Evolution continued it.   God will end it" -- aren't you putting Evolution as a Co-Equal Partner with God in accomplishing His Creation?  Not so, my Friend.

 

You might ask, "If He did not need evolution; then, why did He need six days to do the Creation?  Why didn't He just do it all instantaneously?"

 

And, the answer is -- He did not need six days; but, He took six days.  Why?  Well, again, in my opinion, He did it to set a pattern, a precedence, for mankind -- work six days and rest one day -- work your domestic animals six days and allow them to rest one day -- work your fields for six years and allow them to lay fallow for one year, etc.  The six days of Creation is God's Guideline For Man.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Evolution is a fact Bill.  You agree on a micro scale. I say it continues on a macro scale as well. I NEVER said evolution was equal to God.

 

As for those 6 days, I don't think they were lunar days. They were God's days, set to whatever His time table was. He didn't need to set a schedule for man.  The hours of light and dark did that. A six day work week is not followed by mankind. Why an arbitrary 6?  Why not work 2 and rest 5?

The calendar is a man-made article that helps us keep up with time tables.

 

Yes, evolution is a fact -- Micro Evolution, i.e., adaptation to changes in environment, diet, etc.

 

Macro Evolution, i.e., new animals pop out of old -- a frog becomes a handsome prince (only in your dream) -- has NEVER been proven.  Keep in mind that nagging old problem which bothered Charley Darwin -- the "Missing Link" fossil.   For some odd reason, in the over 150 years since Charley wrote his bible -- none have appeared.  Nor did they appear before Charley's bible.

 

You tell me, "They were God's days, set to whatever His time table was." 

 

God has no days, i.e, there is no time in heaven.  Time, our linear time, was created for mankind, one of our four dimensions.  In heaven, if you remember, one day is as a thousand years.  In other words -- in heaven, yesterday is the same as today -- and today is the same as tomorrow.   No time in heaven.

 

But, on earth, God most certainly did create our time dimension.   And, as I said, I believe He did the Creation in six lunar days to set a precedence for us.  You may disagree, but, that is okay.  Salvation is not based up what we believe about such things.

 

You ask, "Why an arbitrary 6?  Why not work 2 and rest 5?" 

 

I don't know; but, I would say it was not an arbitrary decision for God.  Matter of fact, I would say that no decision made by God is arbitrary -- after all, He is omniscient, all knowing, so, He would know the outcome before He began.   I would imagine that His choice of "work 6, rest 1" was done based upon His omniscient knowledge of the His creation, man, and our physical needs and limitations.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill's ignorance about biology is staggering, even for a nut like him.

Bill, what amazes me is that they [atheists] conjure up visions of transitional fossils in their head.

Their only retort is the talking head primate jimi they have trained to say ‘ignorant’.

Jimi it’s a long hard road to the truth about science and I’m willing to bet you couldn’t stay the course.

And Bill don’t side with atheists against me again. Bite your tongue.

Bill, you know better than that. Evolution does not say a frog turned into a man overnight. But since you believe in the young earth theory, you have no time for evolution to occur in your world.

Science tells us the earth is very old and the universe older. Now for you to accept that, you change it to "God made it appear to be old, but it's really only 6000 years." There are also no cave men in your world. Or dinosaurs. (Don't use the Behemoth=Leviathan argument. There were a lot more than two types). You can believe that God made the world appear old to fool us, but why do that? Why trick us when science would eventually tell us the truth?

I'll stick with what I believe. God started the process, is watching it unfold and seeing how things progress, waiting to see if we finally reach a point where he can declare this experiment a success or scrap the whole thing and start over. It's already foretold that He will. And if we have no memory of it, how do we know it hasn't already been done a few 100 times?

hahaha how deepFat bm50

I have to live with nothing of the sort.  We have a fine body of evidence to indicate how the world came into being, and how life began and evolved.  And God just gets in the way.

 

But life did evolve from the primordial self-replicating molecules.  This much is clear.  It's also pretty certain that live emerged here on Earth soon after it's formation, with an environment very different from that which we enjoy today.  By soon, I mean within 500 million years or so.

 

If you want to discuss statistics, it's statically unlikely that life will form anywhere in the universe.  The Universe is almost 100% unfriendly to Earthly life.  But here we are.  The abnormal exception.  The lucky ones.  If life in the universe is a billion to one proposition, we hit the Lottery.  That's why we're here discussing it.  Mazeltov!

 

DF

I notice that among the sane respondents to my challenge that no one has posted the Theory of Creationism.

 

That's because there is not one.

 

Those who snipe and belittle Evolution have nothing to offer in exchange except magic.  I gave them a chance, nothing intelligent was offered.

 

Creationism, and it's lipstick-pig affectation Intelligent Design, are lies.  They are lies designed by people whose imaginations are so limited that they must accept the fairy tales of the Bible as literal truth.  These people are to be pitied.  But they are not to be tolerated in polite, erudite discussion, any more than Elvis Lives and Bigfoot nutters.

 

DF

----------------------------

Deep,

I know the chorus of those telling there is a great body of evidence as to how the universe began is very loud in your ears. The problem is, you have never seen this evidence explained as have I.

First of all and foremost the mathematics of the theories are going to separate you real fast from knowing what is designed to work as proof and what is not. Retro****ing of models mathematically is an old trick used by scientists. There is a lot of dishonesty on the part of science out there in the name of funding grants. I see them perhaps you don’t.

Good grief df if someone had a video of the big bang occurring it would not disprove God.

I’m a scientist DF not a game player. There has probably been more time wasted chasing the big bang to have done away with poverty in the world. It is truly ridiculous we have starving hoards when we are spending billions on the bigbang.

The language of science has been confused as in the Tower of Babel and a lot of tail chasing going on.

One of the funnier things lately was Zeilinger trying to explain quantum physics and quantum computing to the Dalai Lama. I just wonder what the Dalai Lama is laughing about the whole time.

Do you think perhaps starving people in the woirld?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjd26JSaq64

Deep, did you watch the vedios?

Bill's "micro-evolution" turns into "macro-evolution" over time.  Of course, when you believe the universe has only been in existence for 6k years, you must deny evolution, or your whole belief system falls apart.  This is nothing new for the self delusional, and places a limitation on God.  Under their theory, God is a two-bit magician.

Crustie, there’s nothing wrong with the 6k package w/instructions. I have a friend who recommends it to his patients quite often.

Did you watch the videos at the link I posted above? You need to.

I’m a scientist DF not a game player.


-------

Rram, who do you think you are fooling dude?

At risk of being like Mr. Bill who thinks there are only two atheists on this forum, myself and a certain "Gofish", I suspend suspicion that ok is rramm.

 

So, I will give ok the opportunity to either:

1. Publish his scientific credentials here, or,

2. Submit them to me in a private message.  I will give my word of honor here that if OK wants his identity kept anonymous, I will keep it entirely private.  Entirely.

 

In the meantime, I have the nagging suspicion that OK's scientific credentials are bogus.  No scientist of which I'm aware could come to the conclusions that OK has.  The conclusions do not follow the evidence.

 

Regarding the silly videos featuring the Dalia Lama with regard to quantum mechanics, the Dalai Lama is uniquely unqualified to speak on quantum mechanics.  Quantum mechanics has no bearing on the human scale of life.  It is perfectly unintuitive.  The religion that sanctions the Dalai Lama's station and prominence is perfectly unaware of quantum mechanics, and attempts to equate the unintuitive results of such with religion is simply obscurantism to a fine degree.  It is a fraud and a scam.

 

DF

I’ll ask you gofish, who do you think you are fooling?

Not me, that’s for sure.

Did you watch the six short videos?

I’ll bet you are just as dumb now as you were before I posted the link.

I have discussed the videos with a couple of people since watching them.

They are certainly comment worthy unless you are too busy improving your ignorance of science.

       Rram, who do you think you are fooling dude?


It sure isn't anyone on THIS forum.

P.S. Gofish,

Don’t forget the 29^th of this month at 7:00 P.M. in Norton Auditorium.

…..and please don’t embarrass anyone that evening. There will be several of my esteemed colleagues present.

Dark Dear,

Would it be too much to ask you to raise your hand?

…….and should I recognize you would you please try something intelligent.

A link to something worthwhile would be nice.

Obviously it hasn’t occurred to you that you are grating on my nerve.

       I’ll ask you gofish, who do you think you are fooling?

Not me, that’s for sure.

Did you watch the six short videos?

I’ll bet you are just as dumb now as you were before I posted the link.

I have discussed the videos with a couple of people since watching them.

They are certainly comment worthy unless you are too busy improving your ignorance of science.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

       Dark Dear,
Would it be too much to ask you to raise your hand?
…….and should I recognize you would you please try something intelligent.
A link to something worthwhile would be nice.
Obviously it hasn’t occurred to you that you are grating on my nerve.

__________________________________________

Did it ever occur to YOU that nobody is listening to you anymore. Everything you say can be summed up in a paragraph. Here is the paragraph.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH LIES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH LIES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH MORE LIES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH PSYCHO BABBLE BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH TROLL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH STALKER BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

I will repeat my request.

 

Will someone simply present the Theory of Creationism?

 

As a proper theory, it must explain evidence and have predictive ability.  It need not depend on further indemonstrable concepts.

 

Anyone?

 

DF