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Cynthia Tucker on Faith and Science

HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
quote:
Originally posted by George Sand:
quote:
The same argument goes for birth control and abortion issues. No liberal can trump the argument that abstinence before marriage and fidelity during marriage is the best method for avoiding STD's and illegitimate pregnancy.

It would be my bet that nary a person on this thread abstained from anything prior to marriage. Why do you expect anyone else to do what you couldn't? And if you did, then you are the sad geek who lived at home until the age of 35 and played D and D with the other nerds.

Not me - I was an all star athlete, certified playa, and **** good looking, and I abstained from sex for a long long time.

Just remember - time is relative Big Grin


Let me guess: You were fineazell, right? Big Grin

When discussing with liberals one must keep in mind that they mock people with values and morals b/c they don't understand them. It's beyond their capacity to understand people making choices that are not self-centered and based on immediate selfish gratification because their whole world revolves around themselves. They are the center of their own universe. The concept of giving up one's self for others threatens the very foundation of their belief system, so it must be hated and destroyed. Sad life, really.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
And FYI your hate is showing through when you refer to religious faith as "child abuse" and "mental illness".



When you watch Jesus Camp, it is my hope that you will agree that it (at the very least) borders on abusive.

I admit to a very wide gray area between infusing our children with our values and brainwashing them. It is this gray area that you and Deep and I disagree with.

Teaching a child that a literal burning lake of fire ruled over by a boogieman awaits them if they don't mumble the correct incantations is, at the very least, a form of brainwashing. Some would argue that it is mental abuse.

People like Extra260 is likely a product of this kind of upbringing as evidenced by my tagline. He somehow became an old man and has reared children not knowing how something as basic as gravity works

Many (but not all) would also agree that teaching a child to equate science with atheism is evil. I would be one of those. Extra would not. How about you?
HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by George Sand:
quote:
Gracies, George has done it again - forcing me to call "playbook". Those tired old liberal arguments like George's are so old and worn out they're not even a challenge.


I wasn't making an argument. I was making a point. My point was this: When something affects one at home, their opinion is often very different in practice than what it was in theory.
Your rhetoric is hardly a challenge for me either.


I see your point, but I'm not sure Nancy Reagan is a good example b/c of the fact that we don't know if she ever changed her mind. I think we all go through what you are talking about at one time or another as we raise kids.
E Extra260Post Master
quote:
People like Extra260 is likely a product of this kind of upbringing as evidenced by my tagline. He somehow became an old man and has reared children not knowing how something as basic as gravity works




You would be wrong my friend, i was a real heck raiser until I was 23 when i became a Christian. My wife, whom i was dating, was a faithful Christian and was influential in turning me the right way.


As for the gravity thing, i invite anyone to go back and look at the thread, they will see you were the one who not only didn't understand the question but couldn't answer it.

The statement in context makes perfect sense. But i get a good chuckle out of you putting it in your tagline because it really makes you look like an imbecile, truthfully.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
quote:
But for you, other people's family is fair game. What a hypocrite.



This is an anonymous forum. We are under no obligation to discuss our personal lives and families. Security suggest we don't.

You call me a hypocrite for ensuring the security of my family? That's rich. Ya gotta love those christian family values.

I repeat, sending kids to the Jesus Camp in the film, or one similar, is child abuse and cowardly manipulation. I'm speaking in the general sense here. I don't know those kids' names, and don't want or need to. Nor their parents'.

DF
HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptik:
When you watch Jesus Camp, it is my hope that you will agree that it (at the very least) borders on abusive.

I admit to a very wide gray area between infusing our children with our values and brainwashing them. It is this gray area that you and Deep and I disagree with.

Teaching a child that a literal burning lake of fire ruled over by a boogieman awaits them if they don't mumble the correct incantations is, at the very least, a form of brainwashing. Some would argue that it is mental abuse.

People like Extra260 is likely a product of this kind of upbringing as evidenced by my tagline. He somehow became an old man and has reared children not knowing how something as basic as gravity works

Many (but not all) would also agree that teaching a child to equate science with atheism is evil. I would be one of those. Extra would not. How about you?


What's with the obsession with Jesus Camp? I've never watched it b/c it has no interest to me and no bearing on my life. My faith and the people of the church that was profiled in it are remarkably different and unrelated. Just b/c someone can take something religious and twist it into something ugly (you say) doesn't invalidate or condemn the religion or the subject of the faith. It condemns the human(s) who do the twisting.

On your last question, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. Please clarify.
HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Henhouse Prowler:
What's with the obsession with Jesus Camp?


Oh now I get it. The film was pushed by the fat slob Commy Michael Moore, hero to the liberals. Speaking of abuse, giving any kids access to the piles of propaganda cr@p that he puts out is child abuse. That also explains why the libs feel compelled to dwell on it and use it to attack the religion they so vehemently hate.

Sorry, Michael Moore's involvement rules out any possibility of it being used as discussion fodder with me. You'll have to come back with something else.
E Extra260Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Same compulsion that "Friday the 13th" or "Jacob's Ladder" invokes.


DF



Deep,
I watched most of that video and you are completely overblowing it. You are not doing your side any good by dealing in such hyperbole'.

Go after the Muslims training their kids to kill, that is a cause I would support you in, but be ready to risk your life as soon as you open your mouth. Well, then again, it's safer sticking to bashing Christians.........
D DeepFatOld Faithful
My dear Ex,

You're fairly new here. I've pilloried the Muslims for things like the Hamas TV Bunny, and the 3 year old girl who, in her elementary Arabic, admits to wanting to be a martyr.

They are two sides of the same many-sided evil.

In my more perfect world, we would leave kids alone about religion until they become curious about it. You already know why that will not be done anytime soon, more's the pity.

DF
Basement CatBasement CatOld Faithful
quote:
In my more perfect world, we would leave kids alone about religion until they become curious about it. You already know why that will not be done anytime soon, more's the pity.

Deep, have you seen the Golden Compass? I watched it recently and your statement is what I took away from that movie. I have not read the book.
Wasn't Stalin who said to give him a child for the first 5 years of his life and he'd be a communist forever?
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
Quote by Deep:

In my more perfect world, we would leave kids alone about religion until they become curious about it.
-------------------

But My Dear Deep,

By that logic we should divide our time walking on all fours and upright lest we influence their posture and not insist they eat their vegetables ere we discourage them from being carnivores.
gracies old mangracies old manPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
But for you, other people's family is fair game. What a hypocrite.



This is an anonymous forum. We are under no obligation to discuss our personal lives and families. Security suggest we don't.

You call me a hypocrite for ensuring the security of my family? That's rich. Ya gotta love those christian family values....

DF


--------------------------------------

Wait a minute DF. Now you need to be intellectually honest. How could stating the number of kids you've raised somehow compromise your or their security? No one is asking for names, ages, addresses, etc. You say your location is Hollywood, CA. By the same token, isn't that putting you at risk?
I have assisted my one wife in raising five children. They range in age from mid teens to early twenties. 3 girls/2 boys. Now explain how I have put my family in jeopardy.
Just be honest. Yes, this is an anonymous forum. Still is.
HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Prowler,

I'm no fan of Michael Moore either, but...

He had NOTHING to do with the production of "Jesus Camp". Nothing.

He showed it at his film festival. That's all.

It is an A & E Network production. Please try to be honest in these discussions.

DF


Michael Moore promoted the film. As far as I (or any rational non-Communist) am concerned the second that Michael Moore throws his weight (ahem) behind a movie it is immediately confirmed as bigoted propaganda. Not interested. And you may think that Hollywood and networks like Nat Geo, A&E, etc have the credibility to report on matters of faith without a slanted agenda, but if you do it would only be from burying your head in the sand or smoking what everybody else out there smokes.

I can't help but notice that people who hate religion or any kind of personal faith always use the most extreme or perverted people and their actions to denounce it. Keep on pointing at the extreme fringes and you'll get nowhere with the mainstream of us.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
As far as I (or any rational non-Communist) am concerned the second that Michael Moore throws his weight (ahem) behind a movie it is immediately confirmed as bigoted propaganda. Not interested.



I don't know whether or not Moore promoted it but it really doesn't matter, does it?

Here is a clip of the movie, Hen. It is not bitter towards religion. In fact, I am certain that a most believers would view it as a positive message. I am certain of that. It is the same stuff I've watch in church for my whole life.

The evil it exposes is very, very subtle.

Please view this clip and let us know your opinion? Link
Last edited by Cookey
HP Henhouse ProwlerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptik:
quote:
As far as I (or any rational non-Communist) am concerned the second that Michael Moore throws his weight (ahem) behind a movie it is immediately confirmed as bigoted propaganda. Not interested.


I don't know whether or not Moore promoted it but it really doesn't matter, does it?

Here is a clip of the movie, Hen. It is not bitter towards religion. In fact, I am certain that a most believers would view it as a positive message. I am certain of that. It is the same stuff I've watch in church for my whole life.

The evil it exposes is very, very subtle.

Please view this clip and let us know your opinion? Link


YouTube seems to be blocked where I am now, so I'll try to view it later. Tonight will be tough b/c we have Wednesday evening Bible study and get home late. May be tomorrow evening.

And, yes, Moore's involvement at any level does matter. Just as Al Gore, Sean Penn, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Bakker or any other self-righteous propagandist matters when one is considering the material they are pushing. Some so-called evangelists or preachers take something great (the gospel) and pervert it for their own benefit, and charlatans like Al Gore do the same with science. Both science and religion on their own are good things, it's the humans who twist them to fit their agenda that mess them up.
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