Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
GB,
For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. <snipped for brevity's sake>
I replied with the following: Oh if I said I read most of the post on this forum I was sadly mistaken for I certainly attempt not to read most of the post. I'll quickly admit I pass over most of the post so if I missed the one about Hitler here's why. I don't care a bit for Hitler and I'm not Roman Catholic so had a post about either been posted I would not have read it. Sorry but just not one of the areas of interest. If though the post was within one of the other topics (and no I trust your link but didn't read it either but only because I believe you are telling me accurately). As for the significance of Hitler being Catholic or Christian or if he claimed to be Southern Baptist it would not matter a bit for his actions would have discredited whatever he said he was with regard to Christianity but like with everyone else in here that's for God to determine and not man. We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?
"We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?"
Uh, no. I didn't say that at all.
Didn't say what? The only thing I responded to was your statement that I said I read most of the post. It's highlighted in RED above, your own words so what exactly are you saying you didn't say? What do you think I was saying you said because I can't figure it out from that text. I also do not believe I said what you accused me of saying but feel free to cite subject/date/time and I'll check it out but clearly in the post above to you I stated that I was mistaken and don't just in case you were right. Frankly I don't believe you are but since you made the statement the burden of proof is upon you. As for my statement are we going to start laying the acts of members of a certain group at all the participants feet ... that was a QUESTION .. to you. WHERE DID I STATE YOU SAID OR BELIEVED ANYTHING? A Question is a Question is this what you referring to? If so what don't you understand about a Question verses a statement or accusation? Now who is being disingenuous?
Geez...first you say there are many if not most atheist that would like to see Christians killed.
WRONG & FALSE ... AGAIN. I did say many but had in mind some I had interaction with while on USNET forums why did you inject MOST which is not what I said? I still would say there was many, not a majority and a minority but I still say many could be factual I can't prove it nor can you disprove it. See below for the exact quote .. of June 24th, at 3:16PM.
You say that you have never seen where a Christian on this forum has made the kind of remarks you deem as hateful. I refer you to your own post for that one sir. You didn't like it one bit when Jennifer turned it around and suggested that you (as a Christian) would like to see all atheist burned. Why was it ok to suggest that kind of unfounded mindset on the behalf of atheist, yet it was completely unjust for her to say the same thing?
A very deceptive, misleading statement. What I responded to was Jennifer taking what I did say and misapply it making it into totally something I did not say or imply. You apparently are happy to go along with this deception that still remains and has not been retracted nor do I ever expect it would be even though evidence proves I didn't say what I was accused of saying. Saying that I would approve of such without justification was totally without merit making such a gross judgment with no basis to back it up. So how was responding to someone turning my words around hateful? What words did I use specifically attacking Jennifer or anyone else? You made that accusation so what are they?
Here is what Jennifer posted:
Jennifer Old Faithful | Yesterday at 7:47 AM |
Ohhhh I seeeeeee GB. You say more christians were killed for their belief, (you're wrong btw) so somehow that makes the slaughter of non-believers by them A-OK. Seems like it's you that could sit back and do nothing if someone started tossing atheists into the ovens.
What I responded to was the above, taking one statement about more Christians (being killed by CHRISTIANS not atheist) and then as if I had said Atheist turn it around to say I would approve of such as if I would think it was A-OK. Then, as if I had said it saying I could sit back and do nothing as if I approved. Now lets see what Jennifer said about what my Initial remarks and my initial remarks that started all this was?
GBRK posted June 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM
Frankly, as far as that is concerned, at times it appears that many atheist are not looking for common dialog or a dialog at all. From appearances it seems as if many atheist will not be satisfied until the world is rid of all religious people and most prominent in their cross hairs are Christians. I hate to put it that way and I'm not saying you fit that mold but I can assure you that there are many atheist that do and would not rest until all traces of Christianity is removed from Earth. That is the impression that many atheist leave with many Christians so both can be considered intrusive as well for the impression that many atheist leave is they are not happy as long as any Christians are there. In that respect I believe there are far more atheist who believe that way than there are Christians who feel likewise about atheist.
NOTE .. I believe Atheist are quite intelligent so why don't you comprehend what you read? Why try and be so deceptive about what I've said? Can you or any of the other Atheist that are offended understand what IT SEEMS AS IF means? Does that SAY, as you all indicate, that I am making a statement of fact? Yes I said many (NOT MOST as you indicated I mean) but look further down the paragraph. That is the impression that many atheist leave with many Christians. Again does that sound like a statement of fact to you or any atheist (being intelligent it shoudn't be difficult). I used the word many again .. a guess and I said that is the IMPRESSION that many atheist leave. Saying that is the impression is not saying many atheist do follow through with that are actually hold that radical of belief. If you or Jennifer or any other atheist want to take this as saying what Jennifer said below or the way she took it and then turned my words around then have at it. You only reveal that your desires are to use deception to tie up my words and frankly you aren't worth the time defending it after this for this post contains all the quotes and sufficient evidence to put this to rest.
Now Jennifer's reply:
Jennifer Old Faithful | June 24, 2011 at 3:58 PM |
I won't deny there are atheists that would like to rid the world completely of religion. I'm not one of those, haven't met one of those.I do understand their reasoning and believe they have a point. Religion is one of the biggest reasons for all the unrest in the world.
See the above bolded statements. First is an acknowledgement that what I said was potentially factual for SOME. Then followed it with a statement that she understands their reasoning and believe they have a point. I then posted the following in response
gbrk Post Master | June 24, 2011 at 8:19 PM |
Originally Posted by Jennifer:
I won't deny there are atheists that would like to rid the world completely of religion. I'm not one of those, haven't met one of those. I do understand their reasoning and believe they have a point. Religion is one of the biggest reasons for all the unrest in the world. < omitted for space>
I'm sure you would not have been a **** or a follower of Hitler however it could be said, by some, that he had a point also in his efforts at genocide but regardless of whoever would be crazy enough to think genocide of a race of people would be tolerable is dangerous and just as guilty as those who participated in it. Your statement that you understand their reasoning and believe they have a point is a disqualification of what you said earlier. You either agree with it or you totally reject it for when it comes to something as drastic as that there is no gray area.
I'll concede that much has been done in the name of religion, by various people the wrongs that were done were in no way justified and I don't understand them. I don't understand how the KKK could condone racial hatred and bigotry in the name of Christianity and carry the cross yet hate any other human or person for their external skin color or nationality. IT"S WRONG and I cannot see where they are coming from nor do I agree with it or feel they have a point. I think, no I hope, you mis-spoke and will rethink that statement and be honest about it otherwisehow can you say you are not one of them if you do really feel they have a point.
That's just my opinion, as a Christian, reading what you posted.
HERE WE GO AGAIN! .... Note My response to her started off with I'm sure you WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN .... at the end I repeat the essentially the same when I said I HOPE, YOU MIS-SPOKE. I followed that with a QUERY, not a statement .. HOW CAN YOU SAY. Yet you, in this post that I've taken far too much space to devote to, but did so to get all the facts and evidence in, act and make the accusation that I've been HATEFUL. Okay it's your time .. WHERE? WHAT WAS HATEFUL? What did I do or say in a hateful way?
Jennifer Old Faithful | June 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM |
So GB, you think atheists are like Hitler? Nuff said. You can sit in the corner with prince and his "children of the prince of darkness" crap.
The quotes are above, what I said is above, so where in any of it did I imply or say that Atheist (note not limited to a very few, minority, or some but spoken as if I said ALL .. very false and misleading) are like Hitler? Now who is it that is condemning who? Was it not I who was being told to sit in the corner with the prince of darkness, the devil or possibly hell? Where did I do anything close to that in respect to Jennifer or any other specific atheist?
The reason you feel that atheist attack the Christians on this forum more is because you choose to see it that way. You are also the one that brought up the subject of Hitler. You used him as an example in trying to make a connection to what Jennifer said about understanding how some atheist would like to eliminate Christianity. I understood perfectly what you were insinuating about atheist, she misunderstood.She thought you meant the religion, you mean we would like to see the people eliminated.
You can also look to what b50m said about atheist. She said we would be happy to find ourselves in hell with Christians we hate. How are we atheist supposed to take a statement like that? To say we would be happy to see others suffering would make us evil. I am not that evil. I don't personally know an atheist that is that evil.
You do know and realize B50m has said she is NOT a Christian or speaking for or as one right? And "I chose to see it that way". Look how much effort I have had to put into your and Jennifer's statements that are totally incorrect about what I posted and said? And yet I am the one that chose to see it that way ... Right?
<omitted for space and I'm not commenting on this part>
I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and have read post after post of you saying that atheist either shouldn't be in this forum (I think you said it was inhumane) or that we have been hateful to Christians.
If I made a statement anything close to this it had to be a direct post to Jimi who has been very abusive, confrontational, and only here to be demeaning to Christian or Religious posters. I don't know that the word you applied to me saying was correct but what he is doing is not being a good forum neighbor and in keeping with the rules of the forum. If it is not hateful then I don't know what is. I know I don't recall a Christian every making that kind of statement in here but if they did I'd love to know who and where as they would have discredited themselves.
I will not deny that I have anger towards religion.
Well I deny having any kind of anger for you, Jennifer or any other atheist or non-believer .. even Jimi or Opie who at times didn't care that they were being offensive they thrived on it and desired to be. To me I'm don't have anger toward them I have disgust and feel sad that someone would feel using their time for such a destructive purpose would be a positive and be proud of it. I look at it as shameful and extremely immature.
Not for the reasons you probably think. It has nothing to do with unanswered prayers. It has to do with the way that many Christians would like for this country to be a theocracy. The way that religious leaders use the pulpit to influence the political arena. And Atheist, Homosexuals, Jews, Arabs, and any other group who has political interest dont use their meetings or assemblies when they have their supporters? Everyone Its because many religious groups want to dictate to others who they love and marry. Its because I have to live in a world where (whether you believe it or not) I have to fear for my well being just because I am an atheist. A society so driven by its religious beliefs that even my livelihood can be threatened by my admittance to atheism. You may say you are not one of these types of Christians. Great! I have no problem with believers who are happy and satisfied to live their lives without forcing their religious beliefs on others. Yet, I find your post to be very passive aggressive. Is that based upon fact? If so what wording, what did I say that was agressive .. as a statement? OR Was it possibly a perception that you either read into it or somehow was very willing to see something that wasn't there? My direct quoted statements are above as for this discussion so where is the agression, the hatred since you said earlier that I have only my own post to look at?
Have you ever stopped to think that some of us are here to give the same support to those looking for others who question belief in a God? Why are only the "new" Christians precious? I think that there are those that feel in their hearts and minds that there is no God and need to know there are others out there just like them They need support. It is hard to be in a minority. The forum subject is RELIGION it does not specify only believers. It is a topic. Religion is a very valid topic for atheist. What would make us atheist without religion?
I don't believe I have ever said you or the others are unwelcome or need to go away as you seem to believe I feel. My greatest problem are with statements like Jimi's or people like him who purposely have a nefarious reason for their post. Admittingly making responses to post he doen't read through making assumptions about their content that are baseless. Did you read his statements? I'll repeat them also below
JimiHendrix posted the following two post.
June 18, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. You thought I read your whole post. I no longer take the time to read long rants from known nitwits. I know that there is going to be no useful information, so I just scan or ignore.
and also same day different time
June 18, 2011 at 8:05 PM
I automatically assume that religious rants are going to be baseless. An intelligent discussion with an irrational person is pointless. That is why I don't discuss; I only criticize. And, I don't care what you think about it.
What I have a problem with is when an atheist / non-believer / or whoever comes into a subject that they don't care about contributing to but come in and post only to be destructive or insulting to others who are there to post legitimately and with good reason and purpose. Note his statement .. That is why I don't discuss; I only criticize. And, I don't care what you think about it. So those type post and comments I believe do not have a constructive place in ANY forum. Now how much of what you implied about me above is correct? After me listing all the quotes together and post together do you still stand by your terse post to me making the accusations you did? Did I make the STATEMENT or ACCUSATIONS you said I did?
This isn't worth the efforts to keep defending myself against pointless deception whether it be purposeful or accidental. Either way NONE of you who take my words and make them into what they aren't will ever retract them for that would be an admission you were wrong about me. I'll leave the decisions and verdict to the other readers of the forum who can read AND think for themselves and they can be the judge, based upon the actual evidence and not the allegations.