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Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Ohhhh I seeeeeee GB. You say more christians were killed for their belief, (you're wrong btw) so somehow that makes the slaughter of non-believers by them A-OK. Seems like it's you that could sit back and do nothing if someone started tossing atheists into the ovens. Heck, some of you would probably ask them if they had enough fuel for all of us. Atheists know what most christians think of them. And then you post utter nonsense like atheists would kill christians if they could. 

 

Semi, don't play their game. I've posted to you that guilt trips is one way they work. Then you have the ones that attempt to belittle or "talk down" to atheists. You know, they try to come across as kind and wise and you're just misguided, they just want to help you. They always show their true colors because they aren't kind and wise and can't keep up their charade for long.  When a post hits home to them, or they see you aren't buying it, their mask slips and you see them for what they really are. Then you have the more "honest" ones, they don't even pretend to be nice, they just flat out go on the attack and send your butt straight to their hell. And then there are the sincere believers that post without all the resentment against people different than them.

 

B-I missed your post about atheists wanting a hell, can't find it, but see it referred to in some of Semi's answers, so if I misunderstand that's why. But to plow ahead, firstly I don't believe in heaven or hell. No atheist does. Secondly, I don't know anyone that would wish for a hell, except for some christians of course. Thirdly, being an atheist doesn't mean you walk around hoping for eternal torture for people you don't like. There are some people I'd like to see "get a boot up their ass" but I'd have to draw the line at tossing anyone in a lake of fire just because I didn't like or agree  with them.  As valid as the argument is sometimes, I don't actually buy the "He needed killing" defense. Unless we're talking criminals.

 

So Semi, you hang in there. Post what you want to post-the way you want to post it. If some  people don't "get you" that's their problem not yours.

*applause*  Author!  Author!

 

DF

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

 

As for straight talk. That is just fine. I just don't care much for circle talk. If you are going to take a stand and try and make a point at least get to it and stop turning it around and around. Also could you please stop whining about atheist saying that Christians are unintelligent or weak minded when you do the same thing. In this thread alone you have called some Christians wackjobs and I think idiots (I will have to go back and re-read to make sure that was the term used) also you said Semi had a WARPED understanding of the bible. Nice. Then you proceeded to tell her what she REALLY thought and felt. THEN told her to stop listening to others opinions and figure it out on her own. LOL

You know, all that spin talk was because no one got right what i said, when, and to whom. And you didn't either. So let's be frank.

Semi can believe anything she wants to. She admitted that she was distrustful of Christians because of problems in the past. (The wackball Christians, MY words NOT hers.)

The WARPED view was because she said a person doing good things, following the Ten commandments and the Golden rule were not enough and GB mentioned her view was QUOTE HERE:

You almost make it sound like to be a Christian means you have to subject yourself to victorian era rigid conduct requirements.  That's more a denominational doctrine and not what Christ said or not what God said, in the scriptures.

I said I figured out what i thought she was feeling. And then I told her to stop listening to people on a crappy forum.

So to not REPEAT ALL THIS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMI MISREAD SOME OF MY STATEMENTS, MISSED THE POINT ON SOME, I WAS NOT CLEAR ON SOME, GBRK NEVER LIED TO HER, AND ATHEISTS LOVE TO AGGRAVATE CHRISTIANS.

Originally Posted by b50m:

 

You can also look to what b50m said about atheist. She said we would be happy to find ourselves in hell with Christians we hate. How are we atheist supposed to take a statement like that? To say we would be happy to see others suffering would make us evil. I am not that evil. I don't personally know an atheist that is that evil.

 

 

If you had read all the thread instead of bits and pieces I explained that. I will not re-post again. You don't personally know an evil atheist. How many atheists do you personally know? How many Christians do you personally know? How many are EVIL?


Since you don't believe in the Bible, Heaven or Hell, God or Satan, you can't be offended by something you don't believe. When people make the crude remark of 'Go to Hell', they don't mean literally burn in Hell for all eternity, It's more of the "shut your mouth up and leave me alone", generally.

Do i want any one to burn in Hell? No, believer or non believer. I doubt many will even be in Hell. It would take a person without any conscience, any moral fiber, and wanton slaughter without remorse to earn Hell. Or at least i think that is the way it should be. Since I have yet to meet any one like that in real life or virtual land, i think Hell will be empty. But then I'm just a confrontational pseudo Christian.

 

 

I'll do it for you.

"Yes, that would make them happy for two reasons.

1. They would be there to see it really did exist. It would boggle their minds to finally realize that they could scientifically examine it.

2. All the 'Christians' they hate would be there too."

 

Number 2.

 

I can read b. Atheist would be happy because all the Christians they hate would be there too......

 

I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in heaven. I do however understand what Christians perceive as heaven and hell.  So to say to me or any other atheist that we would be HAPPY to see someone in biblical hell is stating pretty plainly what you think of our morality and humanity.  IF there is a hell I would not want to see anyone I know there. I sure would not be happy about it. I never said that I thought you wanted me to burn in hell. I would never presume you had that kind of evil intent. You are the one that had that statement of atheist.

 

Now tell us again how mean and nasty us atheist are to the poor believers. You are full of it. You talk out of both sides of your mouth and expect everyone else to do as you say, not as you do. I will not tow that line.

I don't tell you what to do, DA. You are a grown up, make up your own mind. But if you are going to quote me, get all the **** pieces together.

I explained that on the previous page.

Yes, that would make them happy for two reasons.

1. They would be there to see it really did exist. It would boggle their minds to finally realize that they could scientifically examine it.

2. All the 'Christians' they hate would be there too.

 

As for some one saying that person is going to hell, that just BS.  Only God decides that so all the fake Christians can make all the proclamations they want, it doesn't mean anything.What they don't realize is their making those proclamations puts them in a bad light with God. My 'proclamations' were in jest as I really do think that atheist would be amazed if it really did exist. I don't see Hell as the description that Dante had. But I guess I won't know until I die.

As Blood Sweat and Tears said:

I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell.

Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

 

I said I figured out what i thought she was feeling. And then I told her to stop listening to people on a crappy forum.

So to not REPEAT ALL THIS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMI MISREAD SOME OF MY STATEMENTS, MISSED THE POINT ON SOME, I WAS NOT CLEAR ON SOME, GBRK NEVER LIED TO HER, AND ATHEISTS LOVE TO AGGRAVATE CHRISTIANS.

Yeah, thats right. Its all our fault. You started aggravating Semi and she didn't stand for it. Then you tried as you have right here to blame it on atheist. You stir the pot every chance you get on here. We didn't misread anything. You just want everyone to believe they misunderstood your intent. Classic.

 

Once again I find it amusing that those that frequent this forum the most are always the ones that want to say that it is not worth the time of others. Get a grip woman. I think Semi and others hold their opinions independently of this forum and its posters. No one here holds that kind of sway for christ sake. . I am sure she appreciates you letting her know how she should think and feel though.

read above your latest post. hell never mind. You'll lose it again. here;

 

 

I don't tell you what to do, DA. You are a grown up, make up your own mind. But if you are going to quote me, get all the **** pieces together.

I explained that on the previous page.

Yes, that would make them happy for two reasons.

1. They would be there to see it really did exist. It would boggle their minds to finally realize that they could scientifically examine it.

2. All the 'Christians' they hate would be there too.

 

As for some one saying that person is going to hell, that just BS.  Only God decides that so all the fake Christians can make all the proclamations they want, it doesn't mean anything.What they don't realize is their making those proclamations puts them in a bad light with God. My 'proclamations' were in jest as I really do think that atheist would be amazed if it really did exist. I don't see Hell as the description that Dante had. But I guess I won't know until I die.

As Blood Sweat and Tears said:

I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell.

Originally Posted by b50m:

I don't tell you what to do, DA. You are a grown up, make up your own mind. But if you are going to quote me, get all the **** pieces together.

I explained that on the previous page.

Yes, that would make them happy for two reasons.

1. They would be there to see it really did exist. It would boggle their minds to finally realize that they could scientifically examine it.

2. All the 'Christians' they hate would be there too.

 

As for some one saying that person is going to hell, that just BS.  Only God decides that so all the fake Christians can make all the proclamations they want, it doesn't mean anything.What they don't realize is their making those proclamations puts them in a bad light with God. My 'proclamations' were in jest as I really do think that atheist would be amazed if it really did exist. I don't see Hell as the description that Dante had. But I guess I won't know until I die.

As Blood Sweat and Tears said:

I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell.

You are still not addressing number 2. That is the one that was insulting and offensive.  I don't care whether you believe in Dantes hell or not. That is beside the point. As far as I know there is no other ideal of hell really. Fiery lake. gnashing of teeth, torture for eternity.... I am not accusing you of telling me I am going to hell. I am addressing the statement you made that "I" would be happy to see others there.  Since I am atheist I can only presume from your statement that I am included in that hateful remark.

 

How bout number 2 there b5mo?

You stir the pot every chance you get on here. We didn't misread anything. You just want everyone to believe they misunderstood your intent. Classic.

 

 

Says the one who drops in once a month. The only stirring I do is supper, and between house work I post a line or too on this stupid thing. Since nobody bothers to read the thing from the beginning of a thread to the end, crap happens. Burt since you have now read EVERYTHING posted and have determined that I did all the aggravating and the attacking, i guess that makes you judge.

 

Judge away.

Since I said it was in jest, that's what i meant.

How can i say that any plainer? If all the fake Christians are there with all the non-believers, a moment of 'told you so' would come to mind. At least it would for me. But you already said i just want to stir up trouble so believe what you want to.

I also said i don't think anybody will be in Hell, but you can skip that part.

Originally Posted by b50m:

You stir the pot every chance you get on here. We didn't misread anything. You just want everyone to believe they misunderstood your intent. Classic.

 

 

Says the one who drops in once a month. The only stirring I do is supper, and between house work I post a line or too on this stupid thing. Since nobody bothers to read the thing from the beginning of a thread to the end, crap happens. Burt since you have now read EVERYTHING posted and have determined that I did all the aggravating and the attacking, i guess that makes you judge.

 

Judge away.

Judge? Hilarious. Such a Christian thing to say.

 

Still no answer for number 2 on you "judgment" of atheist?

Oh yeah, Semi determined I'm not a Christian remember?

 

Anyway, since we keep posting on each others virtual toes, and you got your 'You insulted me with hell mode going on', I'm taking a break.

 

 

I've been told to got to hell more than you i would bet, and it doesn't bother me and I believe it is real.

 

So if you got your feelings hurt by a jestful comment, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to not make any more jests in religion. I should have know there is no humor in religion.

Originally Posted by b50m:

"Oh yeah, Semi determined I'm not a Christian remember?

 

Anyway, since we keep posting on each others virtual toes, and you got your 'You insulted me with hell mode going on', I'm taking a break.

 

 

I've been told to got to hell more than you i would bet, and it doesn't bother me and I believe it is real.

 

So if you got your feelings hurt by a jestful comment, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to not make any more jests in religion. I should have know there is no humor in religion."

No you stated you are not a Christian by the definition of this forum. I never saw or read where Semi made such a comment about you.

 

Why are you now saying that I am insulted by being told to go to hell? I never said that. If you said it then I missed that one for sure. I could care less if someone tells me to go to hell. Other than the intent behind the statement I find it funny. What you said was that atheist (which I am one) would be HAPPY to see Christians they HATE in hell with them. IF there is a hell I would not be HAPPY to see anyone there. As an atheist that is one of the cruel and barbaric ideals I find disgusting in the Christian religion. It is taught to children and they grow up with this unfounded and completely unnecessary fear of 'sinning" and being tortured for eternity. To be told I as an atheist would take joy in someone being sent their by your god is an insult to me and others.

 

You can tell me to go to hell, I don't believe in it so it is a meaningless threat. To say I am as sick and twisted as those that relish the thought of humans being tortured for the simple act of not believing in a supernatural deity is an insult and is completely untrue.

 

Its just more of the stupid, idiotic, weak minded unintelligent thinking of the Jesus followers that take that kind of pleasure in the suffering of others. (see I can make jokes too)

Originally Posted by b50m:

Let's review:

[semiannualchick]     semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    June 22, 2011 at 10:47 AM
Following your best instincts, trying not to break any commandments, & trying to be good to others doesn’t make a Christian. I know many people that follow those same rules but they are by no means a Christian. I would love to hear what you believe a Christian to be.
BTW, I respect your humble opinion.

 

Yeah, I saw that earlier & was gong to mention it but I had to leave for awhile. I’m sorry for my overlook of that….definitely my bad!


semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    June 23, 2011 at 11:57 PM
I believe a Christian is one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ, truly follows His teachings & lives humbly before Him. I know many people that say they believe in Jesus, & call themselves a Christian but they go no further than that.
James 1:26  says that “If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless”.

 

So you think I’m wrong by saying that many go no further than calling their self a Christian? Did you notice the scripture I gave?

 

semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 10:03 AM

I don't think there's anything I could say that would satisfy you. I've been preached to & ridiculed by some of the best that wear the hat. I suggest you read the Bible & see what His teachings are & what He considers "living humbly". None exist in the world today.

 

Again, my bad. My guess is there’s very few that live fully by His teachings & live humbly, but some do exist. I can learn by my own mistakes, & sometimes seeing something I wrote makes me see how wrong I was. Saying I was wrong about something doesn’t hurt me at all. If I can learn something from it, then it’s all good.

 

b50m offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 11:52 AM
I wasn't asking to 'be satisfied', just what your thoughts were. So if none exist in the world, then I guess we all go to hell. At least that makes all the atheists happy.


[semiannualchick]     semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 5:08 PM
Originally Posted by b50m:
'''''''''''So if none exist in the world, then I guess we all go to hell. At least that makes all the atheists happy.'''''''''''''

They don't believe in Hell, but why do you think that would make them happy? I've never seen an Atheist that would be that cruel.

 

I admitted I was wrong except I still say that Atheist aren’t happy to see anyone go to Hell, especially since they don’t believe in Hell. I’ll change that to the Atheist I know in my life & most of the ones on this forum have never been cruel to me.

 

You did ask my opinion of a Christian, I have always said I believe in more than one faith (look it up),

I don’t have to look it up. Ephesians 4:5 says “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”.


I was referring to myself as the outspoken and combative non-Christian, not you (in reference to Jenn's statement),

Again, my bad & thank you for clarifying that. 

 

you do believe in Hell or you wouldn't be worried about it, and if you want to claim agnostic you would be the: Agnostic theism;The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.

 

How can you not claim to know the existence of something but still believe in such an existence? If I for sure believed in the existence of something, I wouldn't bother denying it. Why would I lie?

Agnostic: One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Oh, BTW, I’m not worried about going to Hell. I know I’m going so there’s no need to worry about it.

My humble opinion of course.  Now since you are  happy, not confused and have all the answers, enjoy.

Yes, I’m very happy & not confused anymore.   This has been very interesting but I’m through with this debate. I think we’ve run it into the ground, & I'm sure everyone is tired of us beating this  dead horse. I hope you have a good week, I plan to.

 


Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. <snipped for brevity's sake>

 

I replied with the following:  Oh if I said I read most of the post on this forum I was sadly mistaken for I certainly attempt not to read most of the post.  I'll quickly admit I pass over most of the post so if I missed the one about Hitler here's why.  I don't care a bit for Hitler and I'm not Roman Catholic so had a post about either been posted I would not have read it.  Sorry but just not one of the areas of interest.  If though the post was within one of the other topics (and no I trust your link but didn't read it either but only because I believe you are telling me accurately).  As for the significance of Hitler being Catholic or Christian or if he claimed to be Southern Baptist it would not matter a bit for his actions would have discredited whatever he said he was with regard to Christianity but like with everyone else in here that's for God to determine and not man.  We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?

"We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?"

 

Uh, no. I didn't say that at all.

Didn't say what?  The only thing I responded to was your statement that I said I read most of the post.  It's highlighted in RED above, your own words so what exactly are you saying you didn't say?  What do you think I was saying you said because I can't figure it out from that text.   I also do not believe I said what you accused me of saying but feel free to cite subject/date/time and I'll check it out but clearly in the post above to you I stated that I was mistaken and don't just in case you were right.  Frankly I don't believe you are but since you made the statement the burden of proof is upon you.  As for my statement are we going to start laying the acts of members of a certain group at all the participants feet ... that was a QUESTION .. to you.  WHERE DID I STATE YOU SAID OR BELIEVED ANYTHING?  A Question is a Question is this what you referring to?  If so what don't you understand about a Question  verses a statement or accusation?  Now who is being disingenuous?  

 

Geez...first you say there are many if not most atheist that would like to see Christians killed.

WRONG & FALSE ... AGAIN.  I did say many but had in mind some I had interaction with while on USNET forums why did you inject MOST which is not what I said?   I still would say there was many, not a majority and a minority but I still say many could be factual I can't prove it nor can you disprove it.  See below for the exact quote .. of June 24th, at 3:16PM.

 

You say that you have never seen where a Christian on this forum has made the kind of remarks you deem as hateful. I refer you to your own post for that one sir. You didn't like it one bit when Jennifer turned it around and suggested that you (as a Christian) would like to see all atheist burned. Why was it ok to suggest that kind of unfounded mindset on the behalf of atheist, yet it was completely unjust for her to say the same thing?

A very deceptive, misleading statement.  What I responded to was Jennifer taking what I did say and misapply it making it into totally something I did not say or imply.  You apparently are happy to go along with this deception that still remains and has not been retracted nor do I ever expect it would be even though evidence proves I didn't say what I was accused of saying.  Saying that I would approve of such without justification was totally without merit making such a gross judgment with no basis to back it up.  So how was responding to someone turning my words around hateful?  What words did I use specifically attacking Jennifer or anyone else?  You made that accusation so what are they?  

 

Here is what Jennifer posted:

Ohhhh I seeeeeee GB. You say more christians were killed for their belief, (you're wrong btw) so somehow that makes the slaughter of non-believers by them A-OK. Seems like it's you that could sit back and do nothing if someone started tossing atheists into the ovens.

 

 What I responded to was the above, taking one statement about more Christians (being killed by CHRISTIANS not atheist) and then as if I had said Atheist turn it around to say I would approve of such as if I would think it was A-OK.  Then, as if I had said it saying I could sit back and do nothing as if I approved.  Now lets see what Jennifer said about what my Initial remarks and my initial remarks that started all this was?

 

GBRK posted June 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM

Frankly, as far as that is concerned, at times it appears that many atheist are not looking for common dialog or a dialog at all.  From appearances it seems as if many atheist will not be satisfied until the world is rid of all religious people and most prominent in their cross hairs are Christians.  I hate to put it that way and I'm not saying you fit that mold but I can assure you that there are many atheist that do and would not rest until all traces of Christianity is removed from Earth.  That is the impression that many atheist leave with many Christians so both can be considered intrusive as well for the impression that many atheist leave is they are not happy as long as any Christians are there.  In that respect I believe there are far more atheist who believe that way than there are Christians who feel likewise about atheist.

 

NOTE .. I believe Atheist are quite intelligent so why don't you comprehend what you read?  Why try and be so deceptive about what I've said?  Can you or any of the other Atheist that are offended understand what IT SEEMS AS IF means?  Does that SAY, as you all indicate, that I am making a statement of fact?  Yes I said many (NOT MOST as you indicated I mean) but look further down the paragraph.  That is the impression that many atheist leave with many Christians.  Again does that sound like a statement of fact to you or any atheist (being intelligent it shoudn't be difficult).  I used the word many again .. a guess and I said that is the IMPRESSION that many atheist leave.  Saying that is the impression is not saying many atheist do follow through with that are actually hold that radical of belief.   If you or Jennifer or any other atheist want to take this as saying what Jennifer said below or the way she took it and then turned my words around then have at it.  You only reveal that your desires are to use deception to tie up my words and frankly you aren't worth the time defending it after this for this post contains all the quotes and sufficient evidence to put this to rest.  

 

Now Jennifer's reply:

 

 

I won't deny there are atheists that would like to rid the world completely of religion. I'm not one of those, haven't met one of those.I do understand their reasoning and believe they have a point. Religion is one of the biggest reasons for all the unrest in the world.

 

See the above bolded statements.  First is an acknowledgement that what I said was potentially factual for SOME.  Then followed it with a statement that she understands their reasoning and believe they have a point.  I then posted the following in response

 

 

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

I won't deny there are atheists that would like to rid the world completely of religion. I'm not one of those, haven't met one of those. I do understand their reasoning and believe they have a point. Religion is one of the biggest reasons for all the unrest in the world. < omitted for space>

I'm sure you would not have been a **** or a follower of Hitler however it could be said, by some, that he had a point also in his efforts at genocide but regardless of whoever would be crazy enough to think genocide of a race of people would be tolerable is dangerous and just as guilty as those who participated in it.  Your statement that you understand their reasoning and believe they have a point is a disqualification of what you said earlier.  You either agree with it or you totally reject it for when it comes to something as drastic as that there is no gray area.  

 

I'll concede that much has been done in the name of religion, by various people the wrongs that were done were in no way justified and I don't understand them.  I don't understand how the KKK could condone racial hatred and bigotry in the name of Christianity and carry the cross yet hate any other human or person for their external skin color or nationality.  IT"S WRONG and I cannot see where they are coming from nor do I agree with it or feel they have a point.  I think, no I hope, you mis-spoke and will rethink that statement and be honest about it otherwisehow can you say you are not one of them if you do really feel they have a point.

 

That's just my opinion, as a Christian, reading what you posted.

HERE WE GO AGAIN!  .... Note My response to her started off with I'm sure you WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN .... at the end I repeat the essentially the same when I said I HOPE, YOU MIS-SPOKE.  I followed that with a QUERY, not a statement .. HOW CAN YOU SAY.  Yet you, in this post that I've taken far too much space to devote to, but did so to get all the facts and evidence in, act and make the accusation that I've been HATEFUL.  Okay it's your time .. WHERE?  WHAT WAS HATEFUL?  What did I do or say in a hateful way?

 

So GB, you think atheists are like Hitler? Nuff said. You can sit in the corner with prince and his "children of the prince of darkness" crap.


 The quotes are above, what I said is above, so where in any of it did I imply or say that Atheist (note not limited to a very few, minority, or some but spoken as if I said ALL .. very false and misleading) are like Hitler?   Now who is it that is condemning who?   Was it not I who was being told to sit in the corner with the prince of darkness, the devil or possibly hell?  Where did I do anything close to that in respect to Jennifer or any other specific atheist?

 

The reason you feel that atheist attack the Christians on this forum more is because you choose to see it that way. You are also the one that brought up the subject of Hitler. You used him as an example in trying to make a connection to what Jennifer said about understanding how some atheist would like to eliminate Christianity. I understood perfectly what you were insinuating about atheist, she misunderstood.She thought you meant the religion, you mean we would like to see the people eliminated.

 

You can also look to what b50m said about atheist. She said we would be happy to find ourselves in hell with Christians we hate. How are we atheist supposed to take a statement like that? To say we would be happy to see others suffering would make us evil. I am not that evil. I don't personally know an atheist that is that evil.

 

You do know and realize B50m has said she is NOT a Christian or speaking for or as one right?  And "I chose to see it that way".  Look how much effort I have had to put into your and Jennifer's statements that are totally incorrect about what I posted and said?  And yet I am the one that chose to see it that way ... Right?

 

<omitted for space and I'm not commenting on this part>

 

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and have read post after post of you saying that atheist either shouldn't be in this forum (I think you said it was inhumane) or that we have been hateful to Christians.

If I made a statement anything close to this it had to be a direct post to Jimi who has been very abusive, confrontational, and only here to be demeaning to Christian or Religious posters.  I don't know that the word you applied to me saying was correct but what he is doing is not being a good forum neighbor and in keeping with the rules of the forum.  If it is not hateful then I don't know what is.  I know I don't recall a Christian every making that kind of statement in here but if they did I'd love to know who and where as they would have discredited themselves.

 

I will not deny that I have anger towards religion.

Well I deny having any kind of anger for you, Jennifer or any other atheist or non-believer .. even Jimi or Opie who at times didn't care that they were being offensive they thrived on it and desired to be.  To me I'm don't have anger toward them I have disgust and feel sad that someone would feel using their time for such a destructive purpose would be a positive and be proud of it.  I look at it as shameful and extremely immature.

 

Not for the reasons you probably think. It has nothing to do with unanswered prayers. It has to do with the way that many Christians would like for this country to be a theocracy. The way that religious leaders use the pulpit to influence the political arena.  And Atheist, Homosexuals, Jews, Arabs, and any other group who has political interest dont use their meetings or assemblies when they have their supporters?   Everyone  Its because many religious groups want to dictate to others who they love and marry. Its because I have to live in a world where (whether you believe it or not) I have to fear for my well being just because I am an atheist. A society so driven by its religious beliefs that even my livelihood can be threatened by my admittance to atheism. You may say you are not one of these types of Christians. Great! I have no problem with believers who are happy and satisfied to live their lives without forcing their religious beliefs on others. Yet, I find your post to be very passive aggressive.  Is that based upon fact?  If so what wording, what did I say that was agressive .. as a statement?  OR Was it possibly a perception that you either read into it or somehow was very willing to see something that wasn't there?  My direct quoted statements are above as for this discussion so where is the agression, the hatred since you said earlier that I have only my own post to look at?  

 

Have you ever stopped to think that some of us are here to give the same support to those looking for others who question belief in a God? Why are only the "new" Christians precious? I think that there are those that feel in their hearts and minds that there is no God and need to know there are others out there just like them They need support. It is hard to be in a minority.  The forum subject is RELIGION it does not specify only believers. It is a topic. Religion is a very valid topic for atheist. What would make us atheist without religion?

 

I don't believe I have ever said you or the others are unwelcome or need to go away as you seem to believe I feel.  My greatest problem are with statements like Jimi's or people like him who purposely have a nefarious reason for their post.  Admittingly making responses to post he doen't read through making assumptions about their content that are baseless.   Did you read his statements?  I'll repeat them also below

 

 

JimiHendrix posted the following two post.

 


 

June 18, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. You thought I read your whole post. I no longer take the time to read long rants from known nitwits. I know that there is going to be no useful information, so I just scan or ignore.

 

and also same day different time

 

June 18, 2011 at 8:05 PM
I automatically assume that religious rants are going to be baseless. An intelligent discussion with an irrational person is pointless. That is why I don't discuss; I only criticize. And, I don't care what you think about it.

What I have a problem with is when an atheist / non-believer / or whoever comes into a subject that they don't care about contributing to but come in and post only to be destructive or insulting to others who are there to post legitimately and with good reason and purpose.  Note his statement .. That is why I don't discuss; I only criticize.  And, I don't care what you think about it.  So those type post and comments I believe do not have a constructive place in ANY forum.  Now how much of what you implied about me above is correct?  After me listing all the quotes together and post together do you still stand by your terse post to me making the accusations you did?  Did I make the STATEMENT or ACCUSATIONS you said I did?   

 

This isn't worth the efforts to keep defending myself against pointless deception whether it be purposeful or accidental.  Either way NONE of you who take my words and make them into what they aren't will ever retract them for that would be an admission you were wrong about me.  I'll leave the decisions and verdict to the other readers of the forum who can read AND think for themselves and they can be the judge, based upon the actual evidence and not the allegations. 

 


DA---I'm confused too Semiannualchick. B50m seemed to come on pretty strong with accusations and sarcastic remarks. Now seems to be blaming the atheist for starting the whole thing. Typical. I am not a Christian but I am able to read and understand what the bible tells it followers to do and to abide by. I agree I have never met a true Christian in all my life.

 

Originally Posted by b50m:

I thought you wanted plain and direct talk or did I miss something? So I come on strong and sarcastic?  LOL, that's a good one. Semi said she never asked me for my definition of a Christian, she did. She said I said I was a Christian, I didn't. She also thought I was calling her a combative non-Christian when  I was actually referring to myself. I covered all this in my review of facts, if any one would bother to read what I posted.

But, no matter, nobody sees anything other than what they want to.

Dark, B is correct. I misunderstood some things & the fault lies with me.   The way she was coming across I thought she was implying she was a Christian.

B, you're wrong in that nobody sees anything other than what they want to. I'm always looking beyond what I see, in hopes that I may learn something. I misunderstood some things you were saying & I apologize for my shortcomings. 

Originally Posted by b50m:

Oh yeah, Semi determined I'm not a Christian remember?

I did???? Gosh, I must be losing it because I thought you told me you weren't a Christian.

Edited to add: Ok, I found it.

b50m  Yesterday at 11:31 AM

LOL, nope, I'm not a Christian semi, you said so.

I mentioned your being a Christian because you were implying it, & you let me know you weren't.

Last edited by semiannualchick
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

Moses already had God talking to him when he parted the Red Sea.

 

God may have been talking to Moses beforehand but did Moses believe before or after he stretched his hand out over the sea that it would part?

When Jesus told the paralytic man to walk, did he believe before or after he stood up & walked?

 

When the blind man walked to the pool to wash his eyes, did he believe before or after?

 

When a person asked Jesus to save him/her, do they believe before or after?

 

When Jesus asked the 10 Lepers to go show themselves to the priest, and as they went they were cleansed, did they believe before they went on their way or after? They had to have some amount of belief to even ask Him for mercy.

b, the basic premise of your post is wrong.  There was no Moses, no Exodus, Israeli archeology has proven this.

 

Like almost all of the bible, his story was taken from earlier mythology, particularly the Babylonian mythology from the Jewish captivity therein.  You could look it up.

 

DF

That is incorrect.  Archeology has not done such.  Sodom and Gomorra was dismissed as fable but i a recent History/National Geographic program I saw where archeologist have found what they fully believe, with a high degree of accuracy, is Sodom.  The same for many other cities or locations.  If you don't want to believe it I'm sure you have your reasons however it's not genuine to make such statements that are incorrect in order to justify your disbelief.  Even if Archeology has not found something doesn't mean it didn't or does not exist anyone can realize that.   

The archaeology of the Exodus is complete.  It never happened.  The Jewish captivity in Babylon is archeologically demonstrated.

 

DF

Statement of OPINION!  There are scholars who advocate both ways and both sides and neither can satisfy the others.  We (Christians) make statements of FACT or asserting FACTS as we see, understand, experience them and your retort as with other non-believers are that we are delusional or seeing visions or some other write off of what we said.   However you, and others, make statements of facts as if you were the sole authority on the subject or have some kind of patient on truth.  

 

Why at least not be honest with folks and admit what are theories, opinions, and personal beliefs that are based upon someone else, a teacher, professor, book, etc ...  The Bible is factual to many Christians yet so easily dismissed by others .. even some Christians.  Still that statement is one of Opinion of the Christian that said the Bible is fact.  So as I said be honest enough to keep above falling into that which you nor anyone else can prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

A person doesn't DECIDE to believe in God. Your heart is opened by Him to see and feel Him.

 

If it's not my choice, then why do the religious constantly beseech me and demand me to believe?  I'm with you on this one, it's not a choice.

 

Having seen plenty of evidence for both sides, there is only one honest conclusion I can make.

 

DF

Then that honest conclusion is for you to make, not for every one else to accept. As I have said a million times, I believe in God, don't care if you do or not, the Bible is there for you to read or not, and I would prefer not be considered less intelligent because I do.

Would you prefer gullible, or uneducated?  The entire system of Christianity is a pile of lies and frauds.  All of it.

 

DF

Well we can all rest knowing that you have no preconceived bias or prejudges at all.  Are you falling back into that same rut that many non-believers do where they cannot simply argue the merits of their own belief system but have to retort to demeaning those who believe differently?  Can we be respectful enough not to use insults or insulting terms to apply to those who choose to believe in God or some Religion?  They have just as valid and good of reasons to believe the way they do as you do the way you do yet again you seem incapable of recognizing this.  Someone who didn't know better might consider that arrogance.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Ohhhh I seeeeeee GB. You say more christians were killed for their belief, (you're wrong btw) so somehow that makes the slaughter of non-believers by them A-OK. Seems like it's you that could sit back and do nothing if someone started tossing atheists into the ovens. Heck, some of you would probably ask them if they had enough fuel for all of us. Atheists know what most christians think of them. And then you post utter nonsense like atheists would kill christians if they could. 

 <Clipped and omitted for brevity> 

 

So Semi, you hang in there. Post what you want to post-the way you want to post it. If some  people don't "get you" that's their problem not yours.

*applause*  Author!  Author!

 

DF

Note my extremely long response (above) to DA regarding this whole issue.  Do you usually always jump on and applaud without comprehending every aspect of what's been said?  Unlike some of Bill's responses all the post have remained under this topic so should be easy to follow.  Or are you just applauding when someone takes something that wasn't said, changes it and then runs with it?  

 

If we are going to be honest with everyone then be honest and understand the whole story and not just a partial outtake that is rewritten in someone else's terms and understanding.  I'm not insinuating Jennifer did it intentionally or didn't actually believe what she thought I was saying.  I do believe once all the rereading is done, if that is possible, that any rational person will know that what was insinuated was not what transpired.

 

Comprehension is a marvelous thing when reading.  Understanding the difference between a question and a statement of fact is also helpful.  So go on with your standing ovation and accolades but the evidence will reveal the truth if people take enough time and effort to research it out.   

Originally Posted by gbrk:

Well we can all rest knowing that you have no preconceived bias or prejudges at all.  Are you falling back into that same rut that many non-believers do where they cannot simply argue the merits of their own belief system but have to retort to demeaning those who believe differently?  Can we be respectful enough not to use insults or insulting terms to apply to those who choose to believe in God or some Religion?  They have just as valid and good of reasons to believe the way they do as you do the way you do yet again you seem incapable of recognizing this.  Someone who didn't know better might consider that arrogance.

This has set me to thinking & I'm ashamed of myself. I have demeaned those who believe differently, those that believe in God or some religion. You have just as much right to call yourself a Christian as I do to say I'm not. You have as much right to believe the way you do as I do.

I'm going to have to find a way to give my opinion w/o it sounding as though my opinions are the only correct ones.

For those of you that I have insulted/hurt, I'm truly sorry. Well, except for Bill Gray, I honestly, in my heart, believe his delivery is wrong.

Originally Posted by b50m:

Now tow what ever line you like and take DF with you.

I'm sure you see the motus operandi at work here.  Attempts to tie you up with post saying you said something you didn't then when you attempt to reply/respond and defend your position you are again attacked in yet another direction in a circular way.  Saying the same thing over again adjusting the facts or misstating them slightly so as to meet the agenda or accusation.  I made one of the longes post, I believe I have made, in an attempt to address DA's accusation that I was hateful to Jennifer or other atheist.  I've been misquoted or what I said either taken totally out of context so much in this thread that it's almost beyond ability to address and keep up with.  One builds on another or one misconception upon another until the end does not resemble the beginning at all.

 

Don't look for any retractions for none will come.  They claim they want dialog yet some intentionally post trash and offensive post deliberately while others, if they do make a mistake, honest one or not, are content to leave their mistake unaddressed or replied to.  

 

As for the use of my name or statement with semi I can understand where she believed I said that but I also know, or believe so, that you never had any purpose behind it at all or meant for it to be taken that way.   We both agree in that whatever questions semi must answer should be answered and found apart from the forum and the influence of those here.  

 

As for the forum I wish Times Daily had of had the ability to divide the board so that Atheist would have their area, Christians could have their area, Mormons, Jews, and Muslims but that's expecting far too much.  One thing is for sure, regardless of the affiliation or group there is plenty of hypocrisy going around.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

Well we can all rest knowing that you have no preconceived bias or prejudges at all.  Are you falling back into that same rut that many non-believers do where they cannot simply argue the merits of their own belief system but have to retort to demeaning those who believe differently?  Can we be respectful enough not to use insults or insulting terms to apply to those who choose to believe in God or some Religion?  They have just as valid and good of reasons to believe the way they do as you do the way you do yet again you seem incapable of recognizing this.  Someone who didn't know better might consider that arrogance.

This has set me to thinking & I'm ashamed of myself. I have demeaned those who believe differently, those that believe in God or some religion. You have just as much right to call yourself a Christian as I do to say I'm not. You have as much right to believe the way you do as I do.

I'm going to have to find a way to give my opinion w/o it sounding as though my opinions are the only correct ones.

For those of you that I have insulted/hurt, I'm truly sorry. Well, except for Bill Gray, I honestly, in my heart, believe his delivery is wrong.

For my part, Semi, no apology is needed or due, at least to me.  I've never felt insulted by you in any way but I can appreciate your desire to express yourself in this way.  Everyone is willing to give advice and all of us can't help but have some prejudice or bias in one direction or another as it is one of the things that makes us as passionate about our own beliefs to come here and expose ourselves to those that believe differently. 

 

I believe that most of us, if we passed on the street, never knowing who the other was, would be as hospitable and courteous to the other, or I would hope so.  When intimate, personal feelings become involved though it's sometimes easy to forget that others have very valid reasons for their own beliefs and positions.  WE are all potentially able to make mistakes or misunderstand something so if I have ever done that to you, offended you, or the like I likewise apologize for I think you know that would not be my intent or desire.  

 

Also for the record my post above this one has nothing at all to do with you nor did I mean it toward you, I hope you didn't take it so.  I read and totally understand why you thought what you did and that was fully understandable.  I also don't think B50m meant to apply my words that way either.  You both are excellent posters and interesting to read.   I've not walked in your shoes, so to say, but I thank you for your contributions to the forum for they represent far more that feel just like you and most likely never contribute.  Passion is not a bad thing but then neither is discretion so with that I'll yield to space for I've posted enough today. 

Last edited by gbrk
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

Well we can all rest knowing that you have no preconceived bias or prejudges at all.  Are you falling back into that same rut that many non-believers do where they cannot simply argue the merits of their own belief system but have to retort to demeaning those who believe differently?  Can we be respectful enough not to use insults or insulting terms to apply to those who choose to believe in God or some Religion?  They have just as valid and good of reasons to believe the way they do as you do the way you do yet again you seem incapable of recognizing this.  Someone who didn't know better might consider that arrogance.

This has set me to thinking & I'm ashamed of myself. I have demeaned those who believe differently, those that believe in God or some religion. You have just as much right to call yourself a Christian as I do to say I'm not. You have as much right to believe the way you do as I do.

I'm going to have to find a way to give my opinion w/o it sounding as though my opinions are the only correct ones.

For those of you that I have insulted/hurt, I'm truly sorry. Well, except for Bill Gray, I honestly, in my heart, believe his delivery is wrong.

 

 

 

Now THERE'S the semi I remember! 

Good God GB,

 

There is no way to respond to what you posted up there. You have turned it into a convoluted mess! I didn't twist anything you said. you just want it to appear so now. 

 

As you stated over and over this is a waste of time. I won't write a novel trying to respond to all the ramblings you posted. Think what you want. I will just treat you and all others on this forum as I am treated.

Thank you NSNS.

 

Now GB, you can whine all you want. I changed nothing about your posts and I took nothing the wrong way. The twisting came from you. I said yes, there were atheists that would like to rid the world of religion because of the hatred it spreads, and that I understood their thinking. YOU immediately come back with hitler killing people and how others "stood by" and did nothing. If you didn't mean to say you think atheists are heartless killers that would wipe out people just what did you mean?  You consider this forum your own little church just as bill does, and you, like him, can't stand to hear a different point or opinion.  You and bill want to be left alone to spread your misinformation and whacked out ideas while you attack others that don't buy into it. I'm with DA, I will treat people the way I'm treated by them.  I've been accused of calling people names I never called them, posting things I never posted, and "thinking" things that have never crossed my mind. You're also like bill in the way you pick and choose what you will respond to, and let the parts you can't answer drop away and hope people just forget you didn't address it. Bill takes the "everyone is beneath me, I'm so much smarter and better than they are" route, you take the "oh look how they pick on me and twist my words" route. I don't buy either one.

Originally Posted by gbrk:
As for the forum I wish Times Daily had of had the ability to divide the board so that Atheist would have their area, Christians could have their area, Mormons, Jews, and Muslims but that's expecting far too much.  One thing is for sure, regardless of the affiliation or group there is plenty of hypocrisy going around.

gb, wouldn't that be unfair to separate everyone? That would be like saying, you stay in your church & I'll stay in mine. It would be a form Censorship.  I enjoy reading/hearing the different opinions on religion & Atheism.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
As for the forum I wish Times Daily had of had the ability to divide the board so that Atheist would have their area, Christians could have their area, Mormons, Jews, and Muslims but that's expecting far too much.  One thing is for sure, regardless of the affiliation or group there is plenty of hypocrisy going around.

gb, wouldn't that be unfair to separate everyone? That would be like saying, you stay in your church & I'll stay in mine. It would be a form Censorship.  I enjoy reading/hearing the different opinions on religion & Atheism.

**********************************************************************************************************
GB, why would you want that?  It's not hard to do btw, start your own chat forum, ban all that don't agree with you and post away.
Originally Posted by gbrk:
As for the forum I wish Times Daily had of had the ability to divide the board so that Atheist would have their area, Christians could have their area, Mormons, Jews, and Muslims but that's expecting far too much.  One thing is for sure, regardless of the affiliation or group there is plenty of hypocrisy going around.
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

gb, wouldn't that be unfair to separate everyone? That would be like saying, you stay in your church & I'll stay in mine. It would be a form Censorship.  I enjoy reading/hearing the different opinions on religion & Atheism.

**********************************************************************************************************
Originally Posted by Jennifer:
GB, why would you want that?  It's not hard to do btw, start your own chat forum, ban all that don't agree with you and post away.
****************************************************************
Actually, GB, Jennifer made an excellent suggestion. If all the different opinions bother you that much, you could start your own forum & then you would be in control of who joined.

Regarding my extremely long post, due to all the copy and pasting of what was posted before, DA & Jennifer I was totally wronged and taken out of context, by both of you.  Places I ask questions seeking comments were turned around as if I made dogmatic statements and I was attacked because of it then accused of being the one being hatful.  Evidence and proof is there above and as I suspected neither of you will own up to it. 


I, and the rest of the forum was told, by you two, how I believed and what I said according to your own biased opinions and slanted views.  The long post shows plainly what I said and what y'all said and that should clarify it in the minds of anyone.  Shame on both of you for what you have done and attempted to do and you make it no better by acting now as if it didn't happen and as if I'm still the one who did what you implied.  

 

I did not and if that is the way you are and wish to continue then I suggest you read over my post and ignore me for that's better than saying my post say something they don't.  Yes it's long, extremely long but necessary in order to PROVE my point that my words were twisted by both of you.  I thought unintentional but since you respond as you do I am beginning to believe your intent was very intentional.  I've read it again and my questions were addressed/turned into statements and that was wrong of you.

Regarding my post about subdividing up a forum as broad and general as the Religion forum was made because any well meaning person, not suggesting myself, that wants to ask a question regarding Christianity, their faith, the Bible, etc is ceremonially (figuratively) jumped on by either the atheist or non-believers pronouncing that they have the right to call all us Christians on our BS.  

 

Any new Christian or many others would never venture into the forum seeing how many of you jump in any subject and pronounce how anyone that believes in the Bible is crazy, stupid or the like.  You claim, rightfully, that the religion forum is for all and you are free to post as if you have no other but genuine friendly reasons for doing so.  

 

That is the reason I said what I did.  If there was a subset of forums that were more specific then possibly someone might be more apt to post a question addressed specifically to someone they wanted answers from without having to be attacked OR insulted by others.  Also the Atheist could have their own corner where they could interact without the intervention, from Christians, doing all the judging or hate speak you say we do.  

 

Any follower of this forum for any time knows that no legitimate Christian post goes unaddressed by the atheist or non-believing members of the forum and almost without exception we are told how stupid we are for believing or how the Bible we accept as the word of God is false.  Your own actions is the very reason I said what I did. 

Shame on you GB. YOU brought up hitler, not me, not DA. So you think people can't read the posts unless you repost them?  And again, any "twisting" that was done was on your part when you tried to distance yourself from your post that insinuated that atheists would kill christians if given the chance, and that I would stand by and do nothing if that happened.

Originally Posted by gbrk:
If there was a subset of forums that were more specific then possibly someone might be more apt to post a question addressed specifically to someone they wanted answers from without having to be attacked OR insulted by others.  Also the Atheist could have their own corner where they could interact without the intervention, from Christians, doing all the judging or hate speak you say we do.  

 


I asked a question I specified for just the Atheist here once & Bill Gray jumped in & let me know how stupid he thought I was for asking the question, & then started preaching as though the question was meant for him. I could say that he insulted myself & the Atheist, whom the question was meant for, by jumping in the way he did. But this forum is meant for anyone to post in. 

Bill does exactly what you accuse the Atheist of doing here.

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