How many of y'all believe in death bed salvation? Just wondering, and yes I know Billy does.
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Nope.
Hi Max,
Yes, Max, even you and Puppy can be saved, regardless of what you are today, if, before that last breath -- you do sincerely repent and believe. That is how big and loving is my God.
Of course, the BIG danger of waiting until on your deathbed is that one never knows, even on your deathbed -- when that last breath will occur. And, if you are one breath late -- it is too late.
Yes, that one breath will make the difference between spending eternity in the presence of God -- or spending eternity in the horrible presence of Satan and all the lost in hell.
Of course, it is YOUR CHOICE and no one can make it for you. And, no choice IS a choice; but, the wrong one.
Max, thank you for raising this question. You are indeed a great Gospel Sharing Partner; even when trying to be the opposite.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Yes, Max, even you and Puppy can be saved, regardless of what you are today, if, before that last breath -- you do sincerely repent and believe. That is how big and loving is my God.
Of course, the BIG danger of waiting until on your deathbed is that one never knows, even on your deathbed -- when that last breath will occur. And, if you are one breath late -- it is too late.
Yes, that one breath will make the difference between spending eternity in the presence of God -- or spending eternity in the horrible presence of Satan and all the lost in hell.
Of course, it is YOUR CHOICE and no one can make it for you. And, no choice IS a choice; but, the wrong one.
Max, thank you for raising this question. You are indeed a great Gospel Sharing Partner; even when trying to be the opposite.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by themax:
How many of y'all believe in death bed salvation? Just wondering, and yes I know Billy does.
max
What if a person had every intention and in the middle of begging for their
salvation, when they died a minute too soon. Are they ****ed to hell?
Inv
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Max,
Yes, Max, even you and Puppy can be saved, regardless of what you are today, if, before that last breath -- you do sincerely repent and believe. That is how big and loving is my God.
Puppy don't need savin' ya mugwump. I'm not going anywhere after I've breathed my last..
quote:
Of course, the BIG danger of waiting until on your deathbed is that one never knows, even on your deathbed -- when that last breath will occur. And, if you are one breath late -- it is too late.
The BIG danger is in following morons and giving them your money.
quote:
Yes, that one breath will make the difference between spending eternity in the presence of God -- or spending eternity in the horrible presence of Satan and all the lost in hell.
Oh? You've been there? Either place? No? Then STFU. You dunno what yer talkin' about. Not all who wander are lost.
quote:
Of course, it is YOUR CHOICE and no one can make it for you. And, no choice IS a choice; but, the wrong one.
It's YOUR hell-YOU burn it it, sucka.
Let's say this God thing and heaven and hell are real. If so, then the object should be to go to heaven. That being the object, then we need to be working on transforming our self into a being that can stand in the presence of heavenly beings and feel comfortable doing so.
People that do bad things and steal and do drugs and fornicate and commit adultey will feel totally out of place in a church full of Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers
Doing evil is a choice and becomes a habit
some habits take years to overcome
Death bed repentance? No way that can happen cause you don't go from evil habits to one that can inherit the kingdom of heaven in a deathbed instant
It will take much much longer to change your thoughts, attitudes and behavior. That is why we are told that NOW is the time to prepare to meet God.
Death bed repentanckge is not a doctrine of God!
People that do bad things and steal and do drugs and fornicate and commit adultey will feel totally out of place in a church full of Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers
Doing evil is a choice and becomes a habit
some habits take years to overcome
Death bed repentance? No way that can happen cause you don't go from evil habits to one that can inherit the kingdom of heaven in a deathbed instant
It will take much much longer to change your thoughts, attitudes and behavior. That is why we are told that NOW is the time to prepare to meet God.
Death bed repentanckge is not a doctrine of God!
First of all no one should be under the impression that me or any other forum member can speak for God. We, Christians, can testify, based upon our own experiences, or we can share based upon that which we believe based upon our own studies. Scripture is interpreted by different denominations and it's members and usually people align themselves with various denominations based upon many things among which are that denominations interpretations and teachings of the Scriptures.
That said I will offer my personal belief and feeling based upon my understanding of Scripture and Salvation. I personally believe that Salvation is an act of God, a gift of God, and therefore empowered by and of God by His Holy Spirit. I believe it is only through the Holy Spirit's conviction, of the individual, that the individual makes the decision regarding salvation and belief in Christ as savior. There it is a spiritual understanding enabled whereby the individual realizes a personal need in their life, a Spiritual need and makes a decision at that moment and time.
While I do believe in a Death bed conversion or salvation on the death bed I feel that salvation, or conversion, only comes if that individual, on the death bed, is convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so. I, therefore, do not believe God is under any obligation, to save a person who just decides God I want to be saved. I don't really know if a person can make that decision on their own.
Therefore I believe that God will enable Spiritual understanding in whom He does at the times chosen by God. I do believe that salvation is open to all and available to all but I believe it is important that a person respond to God's prompting/conviction when it's given or provided to them for I don't believe there is a guarantee that Salvation is always open and available to the person. I know that sounds Calvinistic, in ways, but I don't see anything that is conflicting in the Scriptures.
Ephesians 2:1-10 (NIV) 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved . 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
I believe a person is not Saved just because they shout to God "I Believe" for I don't truly believe that a person can have that kind of comprehension and understanding in and of themselves but the respond to God, to God communicating with them. Communicating a Spiritual understanding of their Spiritual need. Just because a person says the words "I believe" doesn't hold God Hostage obligating Him to withhold judgement or the penalty of sin from them. It is a Gift of God and I believe that gift, that Salvation only comes through God's power through the Holy Spirit.
So yes I do believe a death bed confession is possible but I also believe for a person to rely upon it and believe that they can obligate God to some unspoken or unwritten agreement on their death bead is unrealistic and unscriptural so in that regards I do not believe in death bed salvation or that it can be counted upon.
That said I will offer my personal belief and feeling based upon my understanding of Scripture and Salvation. I personally believe that Salvation is an act of God, a gift of God, and therefore empowered by and of God by His Holy Spirit. I believe it is only through the Holy Spirit's conviction, of the individual, that the individual makes the decision regarding salvation and belief in Christ as savior. There it is a spiritual understanding enabled whereby the individual realizes a personal need in their life, a Spiritual need and makes a decision at that moment and time.
While I do believe in a Death bed conversion or salvation on the death bed I feel that salvation, or conversion, only comes if that individual, on the death bed, is convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so. I, therefore, do not believe God is under any obligation, to save a person who just decides God I want to be saved. I don't really know if a person can make that decision on their own.
Therefore I believe that God will enable Spiritual understanding in whom He does at the times chosen by God. I do believe that salvation is open to all and available to all but I believe it is important that a person respond to God's prompting/conviction when it's given or provided to them for I don't believe there is a guarantee that Salvation is always open and available to the person. I know that sounds Calvinistic, in ways, but I don't see anything that is conflicting in the Scriptures.
Ephesians 2:1-10 (NIV) 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved . 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
I believe a person is not Saved just because they shout to God "I Believe" for I don't truly believe that a person can have that kind of comprehension and understanding in and of themselves but the respond to God, to God communicating with them. Communicating a Spiritual understanding of their Spiritual need. Just because a person says the words "I believe" doesn't hold God Hostage obligating Him to withhold judgement or the penalty of sin from them. It is a Gift of God and I believe that gift, that Salvation only comes through God's power through the Holy Spirit.
So yes I do believe a death bed confession is possible but I also believe for a person to rely upon it and believe that they can obligate God to some unspoken or unwritten agreement on their death bead is unrealistic and unscriptural so in that regards I do not believe in death bed salvation or that it can be counted upon.
My question: Why would you christians feel like you need a deathbed "salvation"?
quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:
People that do bad things and steal and do drugs and fornicate and commit adultey will feel totally out of place in a church full of Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers
Death bed repentanckge is not a doctrine of God!
WSONG,
Are you sure the Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers are really
believers?
what is the death bed repentanckge and where did you find it?
Inv
Jen, they are not talking about people who are already Christian. They are talking about folks who don't believe now, but might change their minds when death is near.
quote:Originally posted by INVICTUS:quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:
People that do bad things and steal and do drugs and fornicate and commit adultey will feel totally out of place in a church full of Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers
Death bed repentanckge is not a doctrine of God!
WSONG,
Are you sure the Bible thumpin hymn singin God praisin believers are really
believers?
what is the death bed repentanckge and where did you find it?
No, there are a lot of fakers that wear Christian costumes and do those things too.
the word should have been REPENTANCE.
Inv
quote:Originally posted by O No!:
Jen, they are not talking about people who are already Christian. They are talking about folks who don't believe now, but might change their minds when death is near.
No, I'm talking about believers too
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." As far as I know, until physical death, you have that option.
My father accepted Christ as Savior and Lord on his deathbed. He was more alive as he was dying than he ever was throughout his life. I've always wondered if he was kicking himself at that point, realizing what he could have had all along.
My father accepted Christ as Savior and Lord on his deathbed. He was more alive as he was dying than he ever was throughout his life. I've always wondered if he was kicking himself at that point, realizing what he could have had all along.
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." As far as I know, until physical death, you have that option.
My father accepted Christ as Savior and Lord on his deathbed. He was more alive as he was dying than he ever was throughout his life. I've always wondered if he was kicking himself at that point, realizing what he could have had all along.
Doing those things doesn't guarantee anyone a place in heaven. If it did, satan would be going to heaven
he confessed that Jesus was the son of God. Those that think all they have to do is accept Jesus as their Savior and they will make it to heaven, truly don't understand the whole heaven and hell thing
The bible is so confusing on these issues that several so called Christian sects argue and fight eachother about it
Now thats Christ like.
One might think that, ceterus paribus, god would regard a death bed confession skeptically.
nsns
nsns
True, how would he know they were sincere.quote:Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
One might think that, ceterus paribus, god would regard a death bed confession skeptically.
nsns
Well, Jen, one would think that god would know.
It's the same argument as Pascal's Wager. God would know if the supplicant was sincere, or simply covering his bets.
nsns
It's the same argument as Pascal's Wager. God would know if the supplicant was sincere, or simply covering his bets.
nsns
I know, we can all rape pillage and plunder all our lives and enjoy all satan has to offer then just before we die, we can confess Jesus is our Savior and go to heaven!So why waste all our earth life following Christian rules? No need, cause Christians teach we can make up for it all on our death bed!
You gotta love these Christian teachings
You can pick and choose whatever ones you like and follow them and get to heaven
It's kinda like semi organized anarchy!
You gotta love these Christian teachings
You can pick and choose whatever ones you like and follow them and get to heaven
It's kinda like semi organized anarchy!
So right, Windy.
nsns
nsns
quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:
I know, we can all rape pillage and plunder all our lives and enjoy all satan has to offer then just before we die, we can confess Jesus is our Savior and go to heaven!So why waste all our earth life following Christian rules? No need, cause Christians teach we can make up for it all on our death bed!
You gotta love these Christian teachings
You can pick and choose whatever ones you like and follow them and get to heaven
It's kinda like semi organized anarchy!
technically, i suppose this is true, according to the rules of christianity.
however, i'd like to point out that one doesn't acctually know the time of our deaths, so that it would be a huge gamble to go all gonzo, and then hope to have tiem to repent before you cashed out.
quote:I know, we can all rape pillage and plunder all our lives and enjoy all satan has to offer then just before we die,
None for me thank you, and besides, satan doesn't exist either. NSNS, you pillage and you're gonna clean it up.
Heck, no. The best part of pillaging is leaving a mess behind.
nsns
nsns
I believe Jesus told this parable to his followers and disciples as an analogy that might apply to this discussion.
Matthew 20
A Story About Vineyard Workers
1“The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at daybreak to hire workers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing to pay the workers the usual day’s wages, he sent them to work in his vineyard. 3About 9 a.m. he saw others standing in the marketplace without work. 4He said to them, ‘Work in my vineyard, and I’ll give you whatever is right.’ So they went.
5“He went out again about noon and 3 p.m. and did the same thing. 6About 5 p.m. he went out and found some others standing around. He said to them, ‘Why are you standing here all day long without work?’
7“ ‘No one has hired us,’ they answered him.
“He said to them, ‘Work in my vineyard.’
8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard told the supervisor, ‘Call the workers, and give them their wages. Start with the last, and end with the first.’
9“Those who started working about 5 p.m. came, and each received a day’s wages. 10When those who had been hired first came, they expected to receive more. But each of them received a day’s wages. 11Although they took it, they began to protest to the owner. 12They said, ‘These last workers have worked only one hour. Yet, you’ve treated us all the same, even though we worked hard all day under a blazing sun.’
13“The owner said to one of them, ‘Friend, I’m not treating you unfairly. Didn’t you agree with me on a day’s wages? 14Take your money and go! I want to give this last worker as much as I gave you. 15Can’t I do what I want with my own money? Or do you resent my generosity towards others?’
16“In this way the last will be first, and the first will be last.” GWT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...kers_in_the_Vineyard
Matthew 20
A Story About Vineyard Workers
1“The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at daybreak to hire workers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing to pay the workers the usual day’s wages, he sent them to work in his vineyard. 3About 9 a.m. he saw others standing in the marketplace without work. 4He said to them, ‘Work in my vineyard, and I’ll give you whatever is right.’ So they went.
5“He went out again about noon and 3 p.m. and did the same thing. 6About 5 p.m. he went out and found some others standing around. He said to them, ‘Why are you standing here all day long without work?’
7“ ‘No one has hired us,’ they answered him.
“He said to them, ‘Work in my vineyard.’
8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard told the supervisor, ‘Call the workers, and give them their wages. Start with the last, and end with the first.’
9“Those who started working about 5 p.m. came, and each received a day’s wages. 10When those who had been hired first came, they expected to receive more. But each of them received a day’s wages. 11Although they took it, they began to protest to the owner. 12They said, ‘These last workers have worked only one hour. Yet, you’ve treated us all the same, even though we worked hard all day under a blazing sun.’
13“The owner said to one of them, ‘Friend, I’m not treating you unfairly. Didn’t you agree with me on a day’s wages? 14Take your money and go! I want to give this last worker as much as I gave you. 15Can’t I do what I want with my own money? Or do you resent my generosity towards others?’
16“In this way the last will be first, and the first will be last.” GWT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...kers_in_the_Vineyard
quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." As far as I know, until physical death, you have that option.
My father accepted Christ as Savior and Lord on his deathbed. He was more alive as he was dying than he ever was throughout his life. I've always wondered if he was kicking himself at that point, realizing what he could have had all along.
Doing those things doesn't guarantee anyone a place in heaven. If it did, satan would be going to heaven
he confessed that Jesus was the son of God. Those that think all they have to do is accept Jesus as their Savior and they will make it to heaven, truly don't understand the whole heaven and hell thing
The bible is so confusing on these issues that several so called Christian sects argue and fight eachother about it
Now thats Christ like.
Sorry, Windsong, God says it does. Also, Jesus is not Lord to Satan. Satan is just aware that Jesus is God's son. Satan worships Satan, thus the fall.
JMHO
quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:
I know, we can all rape pillage and plunder all our lives and enjoy all satan has to offer then just before we die, we can confess Jesus is our Savior and go to heaven!So why waste all our earth life following Christian rules? No need, cause Christians teach we can make up for it all on our death bed!
You gotta love these Christian teachings
You can pick and choose whatever ones you like and follow them and get to heaven
It's kinda like semi organized anarchy!
That would be completely insincere and obviously wouldn't fool God.
THESE Christian teachings? I can't imagine how you came up with that since no Christian on this thread said that. Just make it up as you go. That works.
The good news is YES! It is never to late to accept Jesus and become a Christian as long as you are living here on Earth. God loves us all and wants to forgive our transgressions. No matter what we have done or how bad it is, God wants to forgive you for it and ALL you have to do is sincerely ask!
Of course I do not think that God wants us to wait till we are on our deathbed, I believe he would prefer that we be in his service for our whole lives. There is also quite a danger for those that think they will wait till their last moments and that is that noone knows when that last moment will be. This all reminds me of a story that I will share below for anyone who wants to read it:
There was a large group of atheists that had decided they wanted to get together and make a trip to Vegas so they chartered a 727 and were on their way. Along the way the pilot came over the speaker and informed the passengers that they were having engine trouble and to brace for a crash. Many of them thinking this was the end started to cry and a few brought up that just in case there was something more that perhaps they should try out praying anyway and they all agreed to do so. One of them asked who would lead it but several said they did not know how to pray until one guy popped up and said that he would lead it, he said he was raised next to a Catholic Church and that he could hear them pray and that sometimes his grandmother had taken him there with her when he was a child so he knew how. He then asked everyone to bow there heads and started to pray "B-2, G-48, I-24..."
Of course I do not think that God wants us to wait till we are on our deathbed, I believe he would prefer that we be in his service for our whole lives. There is also quite a danger for those that think they will wait till their last moments and that is that noone knows when that last moment will be. This all reminds me of a story that I will share below for anyone who wants to read it:
There was a large group of atheists that had decided they wanted to get together and make a trip to Vegas so they chartered a 727 and were on their way. Along the way the pilot came over the speaker and informed the passengers that they were having engine trouble and to brace for a crash. Many of them thinking this was the end started to cry and a few brought up that just in case there was something more that perhaps they should try out praying anyway and they all agreed to do so. One of them asked who would lead it but several said they did not know how to pray until one guy popped up and said that he would lead it, he said he was raised next to a Catholic Church and that he could hear them pray and that sometimes his grandmother had taken him there with her when he was a child so he knew how. He then asked everyone to bow there heads and started to pray "B-2, G-48, I-24..."
quote:Originally posted by thenagel:quote:Originally posted by WINDSONG:
I know, we can all rape pillage and plunder all our lives and enjoy all satan has to offer then just before we die, we can confess Jesus is our Savior and go to heaven! So why waste all our earth life following Christian rules? No need, cause Christians teach we can make up for it all on our death bed! You gotta love these Christian teachings You can pick and choose whatever ones you like and follow them and get to heaven It's kinda like semi organized anarchy!
technically, i suppose this is true, according to the rules of christianity. however, i'd like to point out that one doesn't acctually (sic) know the time of our deaths, so that it would be a huge gamble to go all gonzo, and then hope to have tiem (sic) to repent before you cashed out.
Hi Nagel and Windsong,
Nagel is right. To gamble that one can play the Russian Roulette game of following the world until the last moment -- and then switch allegiance to Jesus Christ at the last moment -- has two major problems.
First, when one purposely attempts to do this -- this person is fooling no one but himself. Jesus knows your heart.
Second, even if one does sincerely turn to follow Jesus Christ at that last breath -- that last breath may happen sooner than expected. In that case -- YOU LOSE BIG TIME!
Why gamble? Turn to follow Jesus Christ now -- and you have your Eternal Life Insurance guaranteed!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
.
-- this person is fooling no one but himself. Jesus knows your heart.
"He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake,
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
Ooooooh, ya better watch out,
Ya better not pout,
Ya better not cry, I'm tellin' ya why......"
The worst part of waiting until the last minute is that you deny yourself the joy of knowing Him sooner.
I know an older couple who just got married. They are very happy together, but the wife confessed to me one day that she is sad that they had to spend MOST of their lives not even knowing each other existed. They both regret that they didn't get to spend a lifetime together, but only these last few years of their lives.
It's the same way with Jesus. I am SO glad that I have been able to spend most of my life with the joy of knowing He is my best friend.
I know an older couple who just got married. They are very happy together, but the wife confessed to me one day that she is sad that they had to spend MOST of their lives not even knowing each other existed. They both regret that they didn't get to spend a lifetime together, but only these last few years of their lives.
It's the same way with Jesus. I am SO glad that I have been able to spend most of my life with the joy of knowing He is my best friend.
Did they not have other spouses?quote:Originally posted by O No!:
The worst part of waiting until the last minute is that you deny yourself the joy of knowing Him sooner.
I know an older couple who just got married. They are very happy together, but the wife confessed to me one day that she is sad that they had to spend MOST of their lives not even knowing each other existed. They both regret that they didn't get to spend a lifetime together, but only these last few years of their lives.
It's the same way with Jesus. I am SO glad that I have been able to spend most of my life with the joy of knowing He is my best friend.
Both had been previously married for short times. Both were divorced.
OK, that makes sense.quote:Originally posted by O No!:
Both had been previously married for short times. Both were divorced.