Delusional Christians

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Certainly you should read Dawkins and Kitchens and Maher but you don't have to study too hard to understand atheism. It really isn't that complicated but here is a picture that may help you understand:

I know what atheism is, I was an atheist at one time. I just don't believe that being an atheist exempts one from self questioning. Because of that, I realized that athiestism fails to answer my questions adiquitly and looked elsewhere. It happens all the time, CS Lewis, Dr. Francis Collins, and Lee Stroble just to name a few were atheists. Because they weren't afraid to question themselves, they found something that changed their minds.

The first thing I noticed about that picture is the sad and lonely feeling it evokes. The second thing I notice is that to transform one of history's most awe inspiring works of art into something so lonely and depressing, the symbolic God had to be erased. Lots of interesting symbolism there.

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I realized that athiestism fails to answer my questions adiquitly

NashBama,

Sir, if you expect "atheism" to answer any questions or provide answers, then you do not know what atheism is thus were never an atheist.

As for the picture, yes, I agree that hoping and wishing there was a big man with long flowing beard that breathed life into a lump of clay might be comforting to some. That would be very cool if we actually had some big daddy that gave us a hug and called us home.

Unfortunately, wishing something was so does not make it reality.

I personally find great meaning in the (evident) fact that of all the lives that could have lived in my place, the universe allowed me to exist.

You probably have little appreciation of how lucky you are to be able to exchange ideas with me!

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NashBama,

Sir, if you expect "atheism" to answer any questions or provide answers, then you do not know what atheism is thus were never an atheist.

As for the picture, yes, I agree that hoping and wishing there was a big man with long flowing beard that breathed life into a lump of clay might be comforting to some. That would be very cool if we actually had some big daddy that gave us a hug and called us home.

Unfortunately, wishing something was so does not make it reality.

I personally find great meaning in the (evident) fact that of all the lives that could have lived in my place, the universe allowed me to exist.

You probably have little appreciation of how lucky you are to be able to exchange ideas with me!

So atheism answers no questions? I disagree. If I asked you if there is a God, you would say no. If I asked you if a higher power is responsible for our existence, you would say no. If I asked you if we exist due to intent or chance, what would you say? Without intent, there only leaves one option.

It does in fact answer questions, that's why so many authors on the subject of atheism have sold so many books. They are offering answers for people who ask hard questions. If atheism did not answer questions, there would be nothing to write about. I simply disagree with the answers they offer and find them lacking.

No one wishes God exists, He just does. C.S. Lewis explained it by saying "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” He's not a bearded guy living in the sky popping things into existence, the painting is symbolism. God is the force that caused everything to fit into place within the universe. What atheists refer to as nature, chance, or a combination of both, Christians refer to as God. The only difference is that nature is unfeeling towards it's creation. God is immeasurable love which is reflected by those who truly know Him. A look at the life of Dr. King, Oskar Schindler, even Andy Warhol who gave generously to charity is evidence of that. After a disaster, notice who is the first to organize clean up crews and donate supplies. It's usually the churches.

No offense, but I don't believe in luck, but it's okay if you choose to.

One of the most honest prayers & one of my favorites in the Bible occurs in the ninth chapter of Mark, when a father asks Jesus to help his son...

But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us." "'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"

I think Mother Teresa experienced doubts, no more and no less. Most Christians understand exactly where she is coming from & don't think twice about it.

In my opinion, to dishonor Mother Teresa's legacy by saying she was an Atheist is like me saying after DF or Skeptik die that they were really believers because they talk about God so very often. Or maybe I could just say that they really really wanted to believe, which is why they keep asking for proof. It would be a guess but a good one based on their behavior.

I'm not trying to get rid of you guys. Eat right and exercise, okay?

Joy,

that means you will have to send me some cornbread. Oh, and fried okra.

My life depends on you.

DF

That's not health food!

I'm sending you grilled chicken salad!!! Now drop and give me 20.

NashBama and Skeptic:
I think this has been one of the most interesting threads ever posted in the Religion Section. It has really made me think and I have enjoyed it. It's been nice with the bickering kept to a minimum.

OK, but put some fried okra on the chicken salad.


DF

quote:

One of the most honest prayers & one of my favorites in the Bible occurs in the ninth chapter of Mark, when a father asks Jesus to help his son...

But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us." "'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"

I think Mother Teresa experienced doubts, no more and no less. Most Christians understand exactly where she is coming from & don't think twice about it.

In my opinion, to dishonor Mother Teresa's legacy by saying she was an Atheist is like me saying after DF or Skeptik die that they were really believers because they talk about God so very often. Or maybe I could just say that they really really wanted to believe, which is why they keep asking for proof. It would be a guess but a good one based on their behavior.

Wow, well said. You should write more, you're better at it than I am.

I have to agree with 1Lewis; I found it quite interesting.

Nash I have found a new respect for your Christian walk. Keep up the good work.

Skeptic, you posted well also, your beliefs are not my cup-o-tea but at least you didn't blast Nash with to much disdain.

God bless you all.

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NashBama and Skeptic:
I think this has been one of the most interesting threads ever posted in the Religion Section. It has really made me think and I have enjoyed it. It's been nice with the bickering kept to a minimum.

Thanks very much. I enjoyed the conversation as well. It involved the mind and not emotions which is how it's supposed to work. This is my first discussion with Skeptik and hopefully not the last.

Deep, they don't have fried okra and cornbread in CA? That sucks, if Joy won't send it, I'll will. Life is boring without good cornbread.

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It does in fact answer questions, that's why so many authors on the subject of atheism have sold so many books. They are offering answers for people who ask hard questions. If atheism did not answer questions, there would be nothing to write about. I simply disagree with the answers they offer and find them lacking.

Good morning, NashBama,

Philosophy is, by definition, the study of knowledge. It describes what is knowable, how we can know it, and methods of discerning reality. Philosophy provides no answers, it provides the means of gleaning them.

Religion is a philosophy that uses faith as a means to discover truth. Thousands of years before the advent of modern science and the Scientific Method, faith was perceived by many as the only way to provide answers to the Great Mysteries of the time.

Atheism is not a philosophical stance. It gives us no tools for discerning reality. It is simply a statement that gods likely do not exist - nothing more or less.

For example, I do not use my disbelief in the Easter bunny to determine whether or not colored eggs come from rabbits. A believer in the Easter bunny will insist that a Bunny laid those eggs because, well, that is what he believes.

Another example of this is a lunar eclipse. Can you imagine the fear such an event would evoke thousands of years ago? A great, unseen object blocked the entire face of god Himself for a few moments as a reminder of Who is truly in control of this existence.

Religion solved the mystery of an eclipse by providing the answer that the blockage of the sun god was the result of and angry god. 'Nuff said.

Atheism provides no answer here. The writings of Dawkins, Hitchens, Thomas Paine and Plato provide no help whatsoever. All "atheism" can tell us us that the mystery of an eclipse will likely not be solved by blaming it on the actions of a god.

Religion tells us what the answers are. Atheism tells us what they are not.

Wow, well said. May I add Sam Harris to this esteemed list?

Thanks, Nash. As 1Lewis said, this is a civil discussion, which is always nice.

Now as to that okra and cornbread, that's just typical. A woman tries to save a man's life & here comes his buddies. You probably have the beer on ice as well if I had to guess.

We WOULD have a beer if you'd bring us one.

(runs)


DF

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:

This is my first discussion with Skeptik

You think?

If person A is born bearing the sin of person B, that is delusional. Person A did not ask to be born. Furthermore, the christian idea of birth is that the soul of person A existed before conception. If the soul is independent, or otherwise enlightened, or blessed by god, it would not enter the world so burdened.


The core of Christianity is vicarious salvation. First, this assumes Original Sin, a ridiculous notion. Second, it assumes that someone besides the sinner can gather up sins and take them away. This is both absurd and immoral. Consider the logical extension of this concept. One can say it's delusional.

Baptism is a gesture, at best an initiation into some sort of order. To think it is necessary for human completeness is absurd and delusional.

Shall I even mention Holy Communion? If that's not delusional, what is?


If Jesus lived, and died, he did not come back from the dead. People don't do that. Either they were not dead or other people made it up. To believe otherwise is delusional.

Virgin birth. Delusional. Not to mention a matter of ancient myth accorded to several prophets and earth-gods. Look it up.

Vicarious salvation. If the god of the Universe decided to "save" his created, couldn't he have come up with a better idea than torturing himself to death? Face it, that's an Old Testament sacrifice schtick. Human sacrifice, at that. Besides, who can really absorb our transgressions? I neither believe nor want that anyone can take away my flaws. They are mine, I regret them, but I cannot give them away. I use them to make myself better. To believe someone can take them away for me would be... .delusional.

Prayer. Delusional. It is, at best, a meditation. So, I say, go for it. But don't expect good results.

Sorry, but there is much delusional about religion.

DF

I don't think all Christians are delusional in every aspect of their lives, it would seem that most in the video are older folks, with beliefs formed decades ago by or with the help of parents or siblings that did believe.

Knowing what we know now, if they were born today things may be different.

I haven't seen BM's movie, I'll wait for it to hit youtube.

Regards