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Federal, non-military agencies, noted radio host Mark Levin last week, have

purchased enough ammunition recently to not only shoot every American

five times, but also engage in a prolonged, domestic war.

The numbers are based on recent reports that put the total federal

ammunition buy in the last 10 months at approaching two billion rounds.

“To provide some perspective,” Levin noted, “experts estimate that at the

peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds

per month. At that rate, the [Department of Homeland Security] is armed

now for a 24-year Iraq war. A 24-year Iraq war!”

 

What do federal agencies need with all that ammunition?

The government’s only official explanation for the massive ammo buy is

that law enforcement agents in the respective agencies need the bullets for

“mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

The staggering number and lack of details in the official explanation,

however, has led to rampant speculation, including concerns the DHS

is arming itself to fight off insurrection among Americans.

 

“I’m going to tell you what I think is going on,” Levin offered. “I don’t think

domestic insurrection. Law enforcement and national security agencies,

they play out multiple scenarios. … I’ll tell you what I think they’re simulating:

 the collapse of our financial system, the collapse of our society and the

potential for widespread violence, looting, killing in the streets, because

that’s what happens when an economy collapses.

 

http://beforeitsnews.com/alter...-in-u-s-2570016.html

 

 

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OK, guys, all craziness aside - why does the government need this much ammo?  Here I am, an average citizen, not able to find ammo for my 9mm, asking why the government is stockpiling it.  And this is not just some talk show hosts rant - the Social Security Administration felt the need to attempt to explain themselves somewhat:

 

http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/bl...munition-procurement

 

They requested 174,000 rounds of ammunition recently (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/...ial-security-bullets) for 230 special agents (see first link, that is a number quoted from the SS OIG post!)  Thats 756.5 hollow point rounds per agent for 'quarterly qualifications'.  Seriously?!  Personally, I dont use hollow points for practice shots, but thats just me.  They are more expensive and I'm on a budget.

 

This is just one example of a federal agency stockpiling ammo.  

 

So, seaweed and Seven, since you questioned the original topic, Im curious as to your opinion on what the need for all this ammo would be?  Do we seriously believe the response from the OIG?

Originally Posted by Capt James T:

OK, guys, all craziness aside - why does the government need this much ammo?  Here I am, an average citizen, not able to find ammo for my 9mm, asking why the government is stockpiling it.  And this is not just some talk show hosts rant - the Social Security Administration felt the need to attempt to explain themselves somewhat:

 

http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/bl...munition-procurement

 

They requested 174,000 rounds of ammunition recently (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/...ial-security-bullets) for 230 special agents (see first link, that is a number quoted from the SS OIG post!)  Thats 756.5 hollow point rounds per agent for 'quarterly qualifications'.  Seriously?!  Personally, I dont use hollow points for practice shots, but thats just me.  They are more expensive and I'm on a budget.

 

This is just one example of a federal agency stockpiling ammo.  

 

So, seaweed and Seven, since you questioned the original topic, Im curious as to your opinion on what the need for all this ammo would be?  Do we seriously believe the response from the OIG?

________________________________________________________________


From your link here: http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/bl...munition-procurement

 

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States.  These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.


Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty. 

 


Makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something though. 

Last edited by Seven
Originally Posted by Seven:
 

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States.  These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.


Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty. 

 


Makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something though. 

I must have misread the number of agents, I'll go back and look, but even at 295 agents, thats 590 rounds of hollow point ammunition each.  For qualifications and practice?  Why not a less expensive ammo for that?  Hollow point can be twice as much as non hollow point.  I keep hollow point as a defensive round for my 9 mm (it tends to not pass through the body because it expands when it hits the target.)  But when I am target shooting, I use target rounds.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

when this e-mail made the rounds the FIRST time.. it was NOAA, then Social Security, then DHS... i sure wish people would investigate stories BEFORE they perpetuate silly rumors. but, i suppose whatever tactics can be used to incite a group to buy more guns is the obvious reasoning for the story.

And what silly rumors would you be referring to.  Did you do any research? 

 

DHS requested a large amount of ammo - https://www.fbo.gov/index?tab=...f621cee349a5594e43e3

 

NOAA National Weather Service requested a large amount of ammo - https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=op...19150cb&_cview=0

 

Social Security requested a large amount and then posted on their website an explanation as to why.

 

I dont know how much truth there is to the title of the topic, but the background information seems to check out.....

and i don't suppose you believed the explanation? when i was teaching these "certification classes" we could easily go through 150 rounds a day per "student"...

IF you know anything about the process of training or retaining your firearms qualifications... you have to be "re-certified", twice a year.... easily explaining away the purchase.. not included in this silly attempt to incite the pro-gun crowd are the orders for "targets" used in the certification process! as i said, research the topic before you post more ignorance!

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Seven:
 

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States.  These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.


Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty. 

 


Makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something though. 

I must have misread the number of agents, I'll go back and look, but even at 295 agents, thats 590 rounds of hollow point ammunition each.  For qualifications and practice?  Why not a less expensive ammo for that?  Hollow point can be twice as much as non hollow point.  I keep hollow point as a defensive round for my 9 mm (it tends to not pass through the body because it expands when it hits the target.)  But when I am target shooting, I use target rounds.

But then we ARE talking about the government here. They aren't exactly known for doing things in a way that would save money. I recall a recent story where some branch of government was having a convention at a hotel and had paid $16 a piece for muffins. LOL


Here is a link to that story from a few years ago. 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/po...artment-conferences/

Last edited by Seven
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

and i don't suppose you believed the explanation? when i was teaching these "certification classes" we could easily go through 150 rounds a day per "student"...

IF you know anything about the process of training or retaining your firearms qualifications... you have to be "re-certified", twice a year.... easily explaining away the purchase.. not included in this silly attempt to incite the pro-gun crowd are the orders for "targets" used in the certification process! as i said, research the topic before you post more ignorance!

Again, why hollow point?  Did you use hollow point in your classes?

Originally Posted by Seven:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Seven:
 

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States.  These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.


Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty. 

 


Makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something though. 

I must have misread the number of agents, I'll go back and look, but even at 295 agents, thats 590 rounds of hollow point ammunition each.  For qualifications and practice?  Why not a less expensive ammo for that?  Hollow point can be twice as much as non hollow point.  I keep hollow point as a defensive round for my 9 mm (it tends to not pass through the body because it expands when it hits the target.)  But when I am target shooting, I use target rounds.

But then we ARE talking about the government here. They aren't exactly known for doing things in a way that would save money. I recall a recent story where some branch of government was having a convention at a hotel and had paid close to $50 to $60 a head just for muffins and coffee. LOL

Now there is a more believable explanation   

 

Now you see where these 'rumors' come from - they are not based on someones crazy dreams but in the reality of what is going on around us.  Its not a long jump from here to there unfortunately......

I remember that report.  The government spends our money so easily.  I doubt anyone purposely paid that for a muffin - chances are they just never looked at the invoice at all.  'Sign here' mentaility similiar to what is used when voting on legislation .

 

Unlike some of our counterparts here in TD Land - I question everything the government does.  EVERYTHING.  I firmly believe that 90% of politicians in Washington are there for themselves, not for us.  Sure, they started with grand ideas of doing great things, but eventually the power and money got to most of them.  Left and Right.  What they do looks like it is for the good of Americans they serve because they want to keep their post and not be voted out.  But, hidden in the shadows, are their true motives and thats what they serve (be it maintaining their power, serving their lobby groups that paid for their campaigns, etc.) 

 

So, when I start to see 'rumors' like this, I look at the facts that support the rumor and question the motive behind them.  I would do this whether it was Obama or Romney in office right now. 

 

I never take our government on blind faith. 

 

That's a good rule of thumb when it comes to many things in life. Mainly because you just can't believe everything you hear. Especially on the internet. Research it for yourself and make up your own mind after viewing the facts. I wish more people were like you in that respect. I also applaud you for not attacking the poster but attacking the topic without name calling. We've all seen the spitting contests and personal attacks on this very forum. It just goes around in circles forever and nothing is ever accomplished. No understanding is ever attained. 

Last edited by Seven
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Seven:
 

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States.  These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.


Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty. 

 


Makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something though. 

I must have misread the number of agents, I'll go back and look, but even at 295 agents, thats 590 rounds of hollow point ammunition each.  For qualifications and practice?  Why not a less expensive ammo for that?  Hollow point can be twice as much as non hollow point.  I keep hollow point as a defensive round for my 9 mm (it tends to not pass through the body because it expands when it hits the target.)  But when I am target shooting, I use target rounds.

===========

Since I moved into town , I don't shoot as much as I used to when I could just walk into my back yard and fire away, so I still have a couple hundred rounds for my 9MM. As I remember , 9mm hollowpoint is (was) a dollar more expensive for a box of 50 than FMJ at WalMart, and usually I get hollow point, unless I know I'm just going to be out hunting for the elusive milk jug.

Don't know what is required for an agent to qualify , but 500 rounds = 10 rounds/week for a year.

Dosen't seem that outrageous to me.

i always had my "students" use the type of rounds they intended to use EVERYDAY. different types of ammo react differently. a gun sighted in with one type ammo may not preform well using another type of ammo. i hope this clears up any confusion from the "pro gun" crowd as to why "hollow points". seems pretty simple to me... but, i'm not much on conspiracy theories or the "government wants to take my guns" theories!

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