Hi to my Forum Friends,
In an earlier discussion which I began, titled "Was The Thief On The Cross A Christian - Or An Old Testament Jew?" -- I wrote: "Yes, we are told to 'Repent, and each of you be baptized' -- for that is the order of obedience Jesus Christ gave us -- that we repent, believe in Him, follow Him -- and profess to the world through baptism that we are Christ Followers."
And, BeterNu challenges, "All I ask, Bill, is that you supply scripture to prove that Jesus specified this as the "order of obedience." Show me from the Gospels or elsewhere in the New Testament where baptism is characterized as ordained by Jesus for the purpose of "showing the world that we are Christ Followers."
Where is it, Bill? You have claimed that this is a thing taught by Jesus. Where did He teach this -- book, chapter, and verse? After all, Bill, as you have said, "Any theology or doctrine we build upon the Bible -- MUST agree with all the Bible -- or it is false doctrine."
Now, show us where the Bible agrees with what you claim about "the order of obedience Jesus Christ gave us -- that we repent, believe in Him, follow Him -- and profess to the world through baptism that we are Christ Followers." Just where in scripture did Christ give us this "order of obedience" as it relates to the purpose of baptism?"
Gee, Beter, I am glad you asked. Did Jesus teach, or leave us, an "order of obedience" leading to salvation? Yes.
Matthew 28:19-20, "Go (be an evangelist, share the Gospel) therefore and make disciples (bring them to belief or faith in Christ) of all the nations, (then) baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, (and, then) teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Did Jesus leave us two ordinances to follow in obedience and remembrance of Him? Yes.
Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, i.e, Communion, are done in obedience and remembrance of Him. We normally use the term “ordinances” rather than “sacraments” when referring to baptism and the communion. But, even if the term “sacraments” is used -- it is never intended to imply that either of these two is necessary for a person to be saved.
Most Conservative Christian churches and believers consistently teach that baptism and the Lord’s Supper are symbolic and are not necessary for salvation. However, both hold significant importance in Conservative Christian practice and worship.
Throughout the New Testament, we are told to repent. In Acts 2:38, "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
In Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike."
In Acts 8:37-38, "And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him."
And, in Acts 16:31, "They said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.'"
Do you notice the order? First a person believes. At this point the person is saved, he/she is a child of God (John 1:12), he/she is indwelled, i.e., sealed, with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13)
We are told in Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
In Mark 1:8, John tells his followers, speaking of Jesus Christ, "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." In other words, when you believe in Him, He will seal you with the Holy Spirit -- at that time.
Is there an order of salvation? Yes.
We read in Romans 10:9-10, "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." And, then, you follow Jesus Christ symbolically in death and resurrection through baptism.
And, regarding the ordinance of Communion, in Luke 22:19 we read, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
So, Beter, my Friend -- I do believe that Scripture, the Bible, the Written Word of God -- most certainly tells us about salvation, how to attain salvation -- and the steps we must take to gain salvation in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- and, what we must do to be obedient to Him.
Beter, thank you for initiating this dialogue and giving me this opportunity to share the Word of God with our Forum Friends.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Attachments
Original Post