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Would some one please tell me why diesel fuel is so high. Many variables dictate the price of gas, but why is diesel higher. Diesel is a by-product of making gasoline. If trucks didn't use it the oil companies would have to dispose of it. It's high cost, affects each and everyone of us. From the tractors that plow the fields to the machines that pick the food, to the trucks that bring it to the grocery store. Prices at the grocery store are directly related to the prices of diesel fuel. There are all kinds of explanations for gas prices, but why diesel? Just about every product we use is transported with diesel fuel. I understand we can't do anything about the price of gas, but it seems that a by-product that would normally have to be disposed of otherwise would not be dependent on the price of gas. It seems to reason that if we did something about the cost of diesel all the other products we use would also have to come down.
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It's probably because the demand for diesel is almost entirely commercial. Think of all those doctors whose malpractice insurance rates rose 200% from 2000-2005 while the number of actual lawsuits dropped by 25% -- they're legally required to buy the insurance, and the industry had profits on its mind. The same is true of all those truckers and farmers out there who MUST buy diesel.
Diesel fuel is a not a by-product of making gasoline. Diesel fuel comes from a different "cut" of a barrel of crude than does gasoline. Oil refineries world wide are maxed out in terms of production of gasoline, diesel, jet, base oils, etc. Europe is steadily becoming more and more dependent on diesel fuel for personal transportation, which, in turn, drives the demand for diesel and the price of diesel up. Also, increasing ethanol production is driving and will continue to drive food prices skyward due to more and more corn being planted and used instead of other crops.
Just a little more food for thought......last year Chevron's gross profit was around $377 billion with a net profit of around $18 billion. That only gives a percentage profit of about 5%. Chevron spent around $360 billion just to make that 5% profit of $18 billion. In terms of dollars, $18 billion is very large. In terms of percentage, 5% is pretty small compared to other industries.
Engineer,

I've pointed this out on several posts and that the real profits are reaped by the oil sheiks and other nationalized oil fields; and the speculators backed by investment houses, but its like talking to a wall. The left is certain that the evil oil companies are to blame and will not change their minds because of unimportant things like facts.
hey howard, last night I was flipping thru and passed a hillary speech. I paused long enough to hear her say that she was going to stand up to OPEC. we may have to change her name to moses if she leads us out of this. Wink



who am I kidding? I can't even type that with a straight face. Big Grin the only way to beat OPEC is to be self-sufficient. they won't pay her any attention. Roll Eyes
Engineer, yes but its a cut that can't be used for gasoline, and isn't usable for anything else. Jet fuel is more like Kerosine. I know the oil companies are not making absurd return profits on there money and I'm not blaming then for that, but for each barrel of oil they open a precentage of that barrell can't be used for gas, so that leaves the oil for diesel fuel that would have to be disposed of if not for trucks and diesel cars. So what I'm saying is your right its not really a by-product but (making gas doesn't make diesel but the left over oil in the barrell that's not fit for gas is used to make diesel) it doesn't cost near as much to produce as gas. Now it's more expensive than gas and that is the oil companies sticking it to us not OPEC.
quote:
Originally posted by farmguy:
Engineer, yes but its a cut that can't be used for gasoline, and isn't usable for anything else. Jet fuel is more like Kerosine. I know the oil companies are not making absurd return profits on there money and I'm not blaming then for that, but for each barrel of oil they open a precentage of that barrell can't be used for gas, so that leaves the oil for diesel fuel that would have to be disposed of if not for trucks and diesel cars. So what I'm saying is your right its not really a by-product but (making gas doesn't make diesel but the left over oil in the barrell that's not fit for gas is used to make diesel) it doesn't cost near as much to produce as gas. Now it's more expensive than gas and that is the oil companies sticking it to us not OPEC.


Still, it's supply and demand. Been out on the interstate lately? Lots of tractor-trailor rigs. Driven around town? Lots of smaller delivery trucks. In fact every product is shipped by truck at some point. I'm guessing your farm equipment runs on diesel, no?
quote:
Originally posted by monster:
hey howard, last night I was flipping thru and passed a hillary speech. I paused long enough to hear her say that she was going to stand up to OPEC. we may have to change her name to moses if she leads us out of this. Wink



who am I kidding? I can't even type that with a straight face. Big Grin the only way to beat OPEC is to be self-sufficient. they won't pay her any attention. Roll Eyes


OPEC actually embraces the idea that it is to their benefit for oil prices to be "stable". In the US, refinery capacity is at 100%, and no new refineries are coming online (though I believe I saw where one was about to open a huge expansion). To blame OPEC for the current rise in prices requires one to have their head stuck up their ass.

There is no single reason that oil prices are on the rise, and there is no simple solution. Hillary can't think of anything better than to give a tax holiday, and tax the oil companies on their "windfall" profits. Only an idiot wouldn't realize that the oil companies are just going to pass the tax back to the consumers.

A lot of problems have to be solved to get oil prices to go down in the long-run. Basically, either the demand has to go down, or the supply has to go up, or a combination of the two has to happen. There are ways to make both happen, but don't expect any major changes in policy or thinking until it hits the pocketbooks of the right people.
As a matter of interest, have any of you ever heard this theory? And why is something stinky in Denmark, if in fact this is true? My guess is that some of this has been created by the environmentalists who want to see the use of hydrocarbons to cease.

Chris Bennett
WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645
25 May 2004

About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged
mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island . The portion underwater
is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of
Mexico , with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew
natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in
the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing
about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000
barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990,
production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had
been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400
million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oilwas qu antifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s.

Analysis of seismic recordings revealed the presence of a "deep fault"
at the base of the Eugene Island reservoir which was gushing up a river of
oil from some deeper and previously unknown source.

Similar results were seen at other Gulf of Mexico oil wells. Similar results
were found in the Cook Inlet oil fields in Alaska . Similar results were
found in oil fields in Uzbekistan . Similarly in the Middle East, where oil
exploration and extraction have been underway for at least the last 20
years, known reserves have doubled. Currently there are somewhere in the
neighborhood of 680 billion barrels of Middle East reserve oil.

Creating that much oil would take a big pile of dead dinosaurs and
fermenting prehistoric plants. Could there be another source for crude oil?

An intriguing theory now permeating oil company research staffs suggests
that crude oil may actually be ! a natur al inorganic product, not a stepchild
of unfathomable time and organic degradation. The theory suggests there may
be huge, yet-to-be-discovered reserves of oil at depths that dwarf current
world estimates.

The theory is simple: Crude oil forms as a natural inorganic process which
occurs between the mantle and the crust, somewhere between 5 and 20 miles
deep. The proposed mechanism is as follows:

* Methane (CH4) is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar
system - huge concentrations exist at great depth in the Earth.

* At the mantle-crust interface, roughly 20,000 feet beneath the surface,
rapidly rising streams of compressed methane-based gasses hit pockets of
high temperature causing the condensation of heavier hydrocarbons. The
product of this condensation is commonly known as crude oil.

* Some compressed methane-based gasses migrate into pockets and reservoirs
we extract as "natural gas."

* ! In the geologically "cooler," more tectonically stable regions around the
globe, the crude oil pools into reservoirs.

* In the "hotter," more volcanic and tectonically active areas, the oil and
natural gas continue to condense and eventually to oxidize, producing carbon
dioxide and steam, which exits from active volcanoes.

* Periodically, depending on variations of geology and Earth movement, oil
seeps to the surface in quantity, creating the vast oil-sand deposits of
Canada and Venezuela , or the continual seeps found beneath the Gulf of
Mexico and Uzbekistan .

* Periodically, depending on variations of geology, the vast, deep pools of
oil break free and replenish existing known reserves of oil.

There are a number of observations across the oil-producing regions of the
globe that support this theory, and the list of proponents begins with
Mendelev (who created the periodic table of elements) and includes Dr.
Thomas Gold (fo! unding director of Cornell University Center for Radiophysics
and Space Research) and Dr. J.F. Kenney of Gas Resources Corporations,
Houston , Texas .

In his 1999 book, "The Deep Hot Biosphere," Dr. Gold presents compelling
evidence for inorganic oil formation. He notes that geologic structures
where oil is found all correspond to "deep earth" formations, not the
haphazard depositions we find with sedimentary rock, associated fossils or
even current surface life.

He also notes that oil extracted from varying depths from the same oil field
have the same chemistry - oil chemistry does not vary as fossils vary with
increasing depth. Also interesting is the fact that oil is found in huge
quantities among geographic formations where assays of prehistoric life are
not sufficient to produce the existing reservoirs of oil. Where then did it
come from?

Another interesting fact is that every oil field throughout the world has
outgassin! g heliu m. Helium is so often present in oil fields that helium
detectors are used as oil-prospecting tools. Helium is an inert gas known to
be a fundamental product of the radiological decay or uranium and thorium,
identified in quantity at great depths below the surface of the earth, 200
and more miles below. It is not found in meaningful quantities in areas that
are not producing methane, oil or natural gas. It is not a member of the
dozen or so common elements associated with life. It is found throughout the
solar system as a thoroughly inorganic product.

Even more intriguing is evidence that several oil reservoirs around the
globe are refilling themselves, such as the Eugene Island reservoir - not
from the sides, as would be expected from cocurrent organic reservoirs, but
from the bottom up.

Dr. Gold strongly believes that oil is a "renewable, primordial soup
continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and
tr! emendou s pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is
attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back
to the dinosaurs."

Smaller oil companies and innovative teams are using this theory to justify
deep oil drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico , among other locations,
with some success. Dr. Kenney is on record predicting that parts of Siberia
contain a deep reservoir of oil equal to or exceeding that already
discovered in the Middle East .

Could this be true?

In August 2002, in the "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
(US)," Dr. Kenney published a paper, which had a partial title of "The
genesis of hydrocarbons and the origin of petroleum." Dr. Kenney and three
Russian coauthors conclude:

The Hydrogen-Carbon system does not spontaneously evolve hydrocarbons at
pressures less than 30 Kbar, even in the most favorable environment. The H-C
system evolves hydrocar! bons un der pressures found in the mantle of the Earth
and at temperatures consistent with that environment.

He was quoted as stating that "competent physicists, chemists, chemical
engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have known that natural
petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter
of the 19th century."

Deeply entrenched in our culture is the belief that at some point in the
relatively near future we will see the last working pump on the last
functioning oil well screech and rattle, and that will be that. The end of
the Age of Oil. And unless we find another source of cheap energy, the world
will rapidly become a much darker and dangerous place.

If Dr. Gold and Dr. Kenney are correct, this "the end of the world as we
know it" scenario simply won't happen. Think about it ... while not
inexhaustible, deep Earth reserves of inorganic crude oil and commercially
feasible extraction would ! provide the world with generations of low-cost
fuel. Dr. Gold has been quoted saying that current worldwide reserves of
crude oil could be off by a factor of over 100.

A Hedberg Conference, sponsored by the American Association of Petroleum
Geologists, was scheduled to discuss and publicly debate this issue.
Papers were solicited from interested academics and professionals. The
conference was scheduled to begin June 9, 2003, but was canceled at the last
minute. A new date has yet to be set.

__._,_.___
One good thing about the diesel engine is that it is easily converted to using vegetable oil, and I would suspect that diesel oil being close to kerosene, and kerosene is close to coal oil, that by deduction, it would be possible to convert coal into diesel oil very easy, and that our country has an enormous amount of coal.
Maybe out on the farm you could start using veg oil right away. Find a resturant that will give you their used fry oil, filter it and use it instead of diesel oil. cheap to free fuel.

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