By S Brinkmann (Women of Grace)

FP writes: “A number of years ago a book was recommended to us by a physical therapist which I bought, but have been hesitant to read.  It is titled, Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn, University of Massachusetts Medical Center, published by Delta. The index presents mostly okay topics, but does have about 20 pp. favoring yoga . . . .  Mentioned in the book are these persons’ names: Thich Nhat Hanh, Joan Borysenko, Phil Kapleu, amongst many others. The word mindfulness is mentioned many times. I’m just not sure about this book.  Have you ever heard of it?”


You should definitely pass on the work of Kabat-Zin. Although he is distinguished in the field of medicine, he was also a student of Zen Master Seung Sahn and has integrated the practice of yoga and his
Studies of Buddhism into what he calls
  “Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction”
or MBSR. This is an 8-week course combining meditation and Hatha yoga to help patients cope with stress, pain, and illness through moment-to-moment awareness. Mindfulness meditation is based in Buddhist meditation and is very similar to transcendental meditation in that it is practiced for about 20 minutes twice a day and relies on certain postures, breathing techniques and concentration to effect an altered state of consciousness.

This blog goes into more detail about what is wrong with Mindfulness Meditation from a Catholic perspective.

This would explain why he references Thich Nhat Hanh, a Buddhist monk, in the book you mention. Another person he references, Phil Kapleu, is a teacher of Zen Buddhism. Dr. Joan Borysenko is a highly educated woman with a doctorate in Medical Sciences from Harvard Medical School who describes herself as a “distinguished pioneer in integrative medicine” and “world-renowned expert in mind/body connection.” Her New Age leanings are quite evident in just the title of one of her books: Your Sacred Quest: Finding Your Way to the Divine Within.

This is a perfect example of how health care professionals who dabble in alternative therapies introduce the unsuspecting into religious practices that are incompatible with Christianity. Even though they may not be teaching Buddhism per se, they are certainly creating an appetite in their patients for a form of meditation that is not even remotely similar to the Christian concept of prayer – which is a dialogue with God. Eastern techniques such as MBSR are mental exercises designed to bring one into an altered state of consciousness.

In fairness, your physical therapist should have told you that Kabat-Zinn’s work is based in Buddhism (assuming that he/she knew this) rather than leaving you to figure out on your own that this is probably not something you ought to read. If this therapist is into Kabat-Zinn, I can just image what else he/she might offer you. Besides pitching that book, you might want to find another therapist and stick to good old-fashioned prayer to the greatest healer Who ever walked the earth – our Lord Jesus Christ.

consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)

Original Post

HoD says, " I can just image what else he/she might offer you. Besides pitching that book, you might want to find another therapist and stick to good old-fashioned prayer to the greatest healer Who ever walked the earth – our Lord Jesus Christ."


And here is our daily dose of stupid (as if there were a shortage here).  Meditation absolutely, positively does work to ease stress and even relieve pain - especially when combined with Yogo or any other exercise.  Meditation works on the self the same way prayer works: by focusing your mind on a problem and dealing with it  either directly or indirectly.

Neither prayer or meditation have any effect on the outside world whatsoever.  There is simply no possible way in this reality that sending invisible mind beams through the ether can possibly have an effect on another.  

Originally Posted by House of David:
By S Brinkmann (Women of Grace)

FP writes: “A number of years ago a book was recommended to us by a physical therapist which I bought, but have been hesitant to read.  It is titled, Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn, University of Massachusetts Medical Center, published by Delta. The index presents mostly okay topics, but does have about 20 pp. favoring yoga . . . .  Mentioned in the book are these persons’ names: Thich Nhat Hanh, Joan Borysenko, Phil Kapleu, amongst many others. The word mindfulness is mentioned many times. I’m just not sure about this book.  Have you ever heard of it?”


You should definitely pass on the work of Kabat-Zin. Although he is distinguished in the field of medicine, he was also a student of Zen Master Seung Sahn and has integrated the practice of yoga and his
Studies of Buddhism into what he calls
  “Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction”
or MBSR. This is an 8-week course combining meditation and Hatha yoga to help patients cope with stress, pain, and illness through moment-to-moment awareness. Mindfulness meditation is based in Buddhist meditation and is very similar to transcendental meditation in that it is practiced for about 20 minutes twice a day and relies on certain postures, breathing techniques and concentration to effect an altered state of consciousness.

This blog goes into more detail about what is wrong with Mindfulness Meditation from a Catholic perspective.

This would explain why he references Thich Nhat Hanh, a Buddhist monk, in the book you mention. Another person he references, Phil Kapleu, is a teacher of Zen Buddhism. Dr. Joan Borysenko is a highly educated woman with a doctorate in Medical Sciences from Harvard Medical School who describes herself as a “distinguished pioneer in integrative medicine” and “world-renowned expert in mind/body connection.” Her New Age leanings are quite evident in just the title of one of her books: Your Sacred Quest: Finding Your Way to the Divine Within.

This is a perfect example of how health care professionals who dabble in alternative therapies introduce the unsuspecting into religious practices that are incompatible with Christianity. Even though they may not be teaching Buddhism per se, they are certainly creating an appetite in their patients for a form of meditation that is not even remotely similar to the Christian concept of prayer – which is a dialogue with God. Eastern techniques such as MBSR are mental exercises designed to bring one into an altered state of consciousness.

In fairness, your physical therapist should have told you that Kabat-Zinn’s work is based in Buddhism (assuming that he/she knew this) rather than leaving you to figure out on your own that this is probably not something you ought to read. If this therapist is into Kabat-Zinn, I can just image what else he/she might offer you. Besides pitching that book, you might want to find another therapist and stick to good old-fashioned prayer to the greatest healer Who ever walked the earth – our Lord Jesus Christ.

This post is a perfect example of someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. Mindfulness can help anyone, regardless of their religion or lack of religion.

Buddhism is perfectly compatible with Christianity contrary to belief.

 

Worship in Buddhism is showing respect to your teacher, and in the case of Buddha he is definitely NOT a god but a normal man. Siddhartha was around 500 years before the coming of Jesus, so of course he never mentioned him, nor did he say anything else about other gods or the belief in them, it was all about stopping suffering and living peacefully.  Believe that there is or isn't a God it's no different to them.

 

For that matter, have your pastor never talked about clearing your mind to listen to what Jesus is trying to tell you?  That's meditation.

Hi David,

 

You ask, "Do Christians Need Buddhist Meditation Techniques . . .?"

 

Simple answer:  NO!  In no way!

 

Ryokurin tells us, "Buddhism is perfectly compatible with Christianity contrary to belief."

 

Totally and completely untrue.  Buddhism is the antithesis of Christianity.  Buddhist are closer to atheists than to Christians -- for most Buddhist do not believe in the existence of God.  Virtually everything about Buddhism is the opposite of Christianity.

 

My suggestion:  If anyone needs a meditation technique -- get your Bible, find a quiet place to sit, and study what God has written there.  If one is not a believer and needs help in understanding the Bible; find a Christian Friend and ask for his/her help in a one-on-one study.   This, I assure you, will be much more productive that any Eastern Meditation Technique.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Virtually everything about Buddhism is the opposite of Christianity.

That's certainly been my experience. I've never encountered a Buddhist who thought it was appropriate to go to war with another country for having a different religion, or who thought it was appropriate to stop a community from building a house of worship because their religion was different. Most of the Buddhists I've ever encountered have focused on wisdom and compassion for their spiritual belief, rather than world domination.

I guess when you think about it it's no wonder they'd be against meditation. That is unless it's what bill suggested, meditating with the bible. They can't take a chance that a "believer" might have a rational thought slip in. Before I saw this forum I would have laughed if someone had told me all the things certain christians are against. Now this?  I guess we can all stay tuned to see what hits their "no no" list next. Daydreaming maybe? Wishful thinking?

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I guess when you think about it it's no wonder they'd be against meditation. That is unless it's what bill suggested, meditating with the bible. They can't take a chance that a "believer" might have a rational thought slip in. Before I saw this forum I would have laughed if someone had told me all the things certain christians are against. Now this?  I guess we can all stay tuned to see what hits their "no no" list next. Daydreaming maybe? Wishful thinking?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Best, I haven't read much of this thread nor will I, but I meditate, daydream

and do a great deal of planning and wishful thinking. All sane people do.

Many people who say they are believers aren't Christian.

.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
My suggestion:  If anyone needs a meditation technique -- get your Bible, find a quiet place to sit, and study what God has written there.
----------

Ahh yes.  I admit, as a teenager, I found the following to be quite, er, umm, relaxing.  I recall looking for that UFO story in Ezekiel (I was a big UFO not back then) but ran across this story relayed to Ezekiel by the Lord God Himself (before he became Jesus, of course). 
"11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.

 14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans[a] portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.[b] 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

 

----
Quite impressive, no?  The whole chapter reads like a modern day "romance" novel.  Not quite as beautiful as the Song of Solomon but, man, the sex is raunchy, ain't it?  http://www.biblegateway.com/pa...l+23&version=NIV

 

 

Whoda thnk the Lord was such a sex machine?

 

Read the whole scandalous story here: http://www.biblegateway.com/pa...l+23&version=NIV

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

 

But you see, it's when you post something like this that we wonder how you could have REALLY been a Christian back in the day. If you can't understand this, that is an indication that you never really understood ANY of it. If you didn't understand it, how could you have been a Christian?

Originally Posted by O No!:

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

----

 

I made no comment on the literalness of the story.  It was an illustration the stupidity of Bill suggestion to read the bible when one needs some comfort. It's a horrible story full of tales of death, degenerate sex and animistic comparisons.  It's just sick no matter if it's allegory, metaphor or the literal Word of Yahweh.  And the bible is filled with such horrible crap.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

----

 

I made no comment on the literalness of the story.  It was an illustration the stupidity of Bill suggestion to read the bible when one needs some comfort. It's a horrible story full of tales of death, degenerate sex and animistic comparisons.  It's just sick no matter if it's allegory, metaphor or the literal Word of Yahweh.  And the bible is filled with such horrible crap.

________________________________________________________________________

In your OPINION.

 

So, don't read it.

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Many people who say they are believers aren't Christian.

Agreed. And in my experience, many people who say they are Christian aren't believers, or certainly don't act like them.

 

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” — Mahatma Gandhi

Originally Posted by O No!:

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

Oooh. It's all clear to me now.

 

When it would be, say, potentially obscene, the stories in the Bible are allegories, and shouldn't be taken literally.

 

On the other hand, when they are absurdly fantastical and thoroughly inconsistent with any reasonable scientific understanding of our universe, they're absolute literal truth.

 

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up for me, O No!

O,

I frankly don't get your preoccupation with people needing to state something along the lines of "in my own personal opinion, ..." when posting. Everything we type, unless cited to the originating source, is pretty much personal opinion. It's implied, understood and goes without saying, doesn't it? Do you really think any of Uno's (or anyone's) posts would be more pleasant to you if he continually prefaced his opinions??

 

Also, what's the point of telling Uno not to read about and/or comment on something that has a real and everyday effect on everyone's life? The Bible has many, many terrible and odd things in it. If those things didn't reside in the very book that God dictated, they would be rightly looked upon by everyone as obviously terrible and odd. Maybe, if you really think it's good advice for Uno not to read something, you can be his role model and do the same yourself by not reading Uno's posts? It is my personal opinion that doing so is needlessly upsetting to you.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

O,

I frankly don't get your preoccupation with people needing to state something along the lines of "in my own personal opinion, ..." when posting. Everything we type, unless cited to the originating source, is pretty much personal opinion. It's implied, understood and goes without saying, doesn't it? Do you really think any of Uno's (or anyone's) posts would be more pleasant to you if he continually prefaced his opinions??

 

Also, what's the point of telling Uno not to read about and/or comment on something that has a real and everyday effect on everyone's life? The Bible has many, many terrible and odd things in it. If those things didn't reside in the very book that God dictated, they would be rightly looked upon by everyone as obviously terrible and odd. Maybe, if you really think it's good advice for Uno not to read something, you can be his role model and do the same yourself by not reading Uno's posts? It is my personal opinion that doing so is needlessly upsetting to you.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

A., television is rotting your brain. You should throw it away immediately.

 

And rap is NOT music. If anyone likes it that shows they have no taste whatsoever.

 

Vanilla ice cream STINKS! It has no flavor, and if you like it there is something wrong with you.

 

All Republicans are liars! (Thanks Jennifer.)

 

Alabama is so backward the people who live there might as well be living in a third world country.

 

The 9/11 memorials this past weekend are nothing more than a maudlin display of the American people wallowing in their misery.

 

.......................................................................................................................................................

 

Now, all of those statements sound pretty confrontational, don't they? Confrontational statements are not condusive to civil debate. If I had said instead, that "IN MY OPINION, TV rots one's brain", or that "TO ME, rap is not music", or "I don't like vanilla ice cream. To me it has no flavor and I can't see how anyone could like it", or, "It's been my experience that Republicans lie", or, "From what I see, Alabama is rather backward. I think there are people in some third world countries who are better off", or, "The 9/11 memorials this weekend were difficult for me. It brought it all back, and I'd rather see people move on and stop dwelling on the horror of that day", it would be clear that I was expressing MY opinion, and that I acknowledge that you might feel differently. It would be obvious that I wasn't proclaiming that I am right and the rest of you are wrong.

 

We usually are dealing with controvercial subjects here, and I believe (HEY! There's that phrase again!) that if we applied the same manners and common courtesy that we were taught in kindergarten, we could have a much more interesting and productive forum, rather than the sandbox it has become lately.

 

 

Originally Posted by O No!:
 

 

We usually are dealing with controvercial subjects here, and I believe (HEY! There's that phrase again!) that if we applied the same manners and common courtesy that we were taught in kindergarten, we could have a much more interesting and productive forum, rather than the sandbox it has become lately.

 

 

The only problem with your theory is that you want to be the teacher. Sorry, but you don't dictate the rules in a public forum. In that allegory, you're more like the kid who desperately wants to be the teacher's pet and is frustrated at your lack of success.

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

O,

I frankly don't get your preoccupation with people needing to state something along the lines of "in my own personal opinion, ..." when posting. Everything we type, unless cited to the originating source, is pretty much personal opinion. It's implied, understood and goes without saying, doesn't it? Do you really think any of Uno's (or anyone's) posts would be more pleasant to you if he continually prefaced his opinions??

 

Also, what's the point of telling Uno not to read about and/or comment on something that has a real and everyday effect on everyone's life? The Bible has many, many terrible and odd things in it. If those things didn't reside in the very book that God dictated, they would be rightly looked upon by everyone as obviously terrible and odd. Maybe, if you really think it's good advice for Uno not to read something, you can be his role model and do the same yourself by not reading Uno's posts? It is my personal opinion that doing so is needlessly upsetting to you.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

A., television is rotting your brain. You should throw it away immediately.

 

And rap is NOT music. If anyone likes it that shows they have no taste whatsoever.

 

Vanilla ice cream STINKS! It has no flavor, and if you like it there is something wrong with you.

 

All Republicans are liars! (Thanks Jennifer.)

 

Alabama is so backward the people who live there might as well be living in a third world country.

 

The 9/11 memorials this past weekend are nothing more than a maudlin display of the American people wallowing in their misery.

 

.......................................................................................................................................................

 

Now, all of those statements sound pretty confrontational, don't they? Confrontational statements are not condusive to civil debate. If I had said instead, that "IN MY OPINION, TV rots one's brain", or that "TO ME, rap is not music", or "I don't like vanilla ice cream. To me it has no flavor and I can't see how anyone could like it", or, "It's been my experience that Republicans lie", or, "From what I see, Alabama is rather backward. I think there are people in some third world countries who are better off", or, "The 9/11 memorials this weekend were difficult for me. It brought it all back, and I'd rather see people move on and stop dwelling on the horror of that day", it would be clear that I was expressing MY opinion, and that I acknowledge that you might feel differently. It would be obvious that I wasn't proclaiming that I am right and the rest of you are wrong.

 

We usually are dealing with controvercial subjects here, and I believe (HEY! There's that phrase again!) that if we applied the same manners and common courtesy that we were taught in kindergarten, we could have a much more interesting and productive forum, rather than the sandbox it has become lately.

 

 

O,

One of the things we teach children at home and at school is to focus on their own behavior. There's no sense in pointing at someone you don't like and telling them to bend to your own standard. There's even less wisdom in acting out in direct response to other's behavior. We can't change others but we can change our behavior. Perhaps if you want to have a more interesting and productive forum you can start by regularly applying the Golden Rule and worrying less about what someone else is doing.

Originally Posted by O No!:
and I believe ... that if we applied the same manners and common courtesy that we were taught in kindergarten, we could have a much more interesting and productive forum, rather than the sandbox it has become lately.

------

OK, I'm game. Wanna try?

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

I don't believe I said anything like that at all.

------

 

Welcome to my world!

So, umm, can we drop this pettiness and get back to that R-rated story in Ezekiel?  Please?

 

Are there any other "relaxing" stories of that kind that I mighta missed?

Originally Posted by Glass Onion:
Originally Posted by O No!:

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

 

Allegory requires salacious sexual references? Who knew?

 

-----

Certainly help ME remember the story!

So boys and girls, even though the bible has nasty stories, they're only little tales, you know, like dirty jokes and such. Ahhh, but since they're in the bible you can read it and mommy and daddy can't say anything about it.  Don't you know they pack the churches the day the preacher takes on this story. I love the way they "clean up" bible stories when they tell them to kids. It might be interesting to see if we can find this little gem on one of the "kiddy bible stories" sites and see how they managed to do it. Naw, not even the best story twisters could fix this one. Then they dare to rail against poor little Harry Potter.

quote:   Originally Posted by O No!:

It's called allegory, Unob. If you need help figuring it out, there are plenty of online resources.

 

But you see, it's when you post something like this that we wonder how you could have REALLY been a Christian back in the day.  If you can't understand this, that is an indication that you never really understood ANY of it.  If you didn't understand it, how could you have been a Christian?


Hi O,

 

You are very correct.  And, I have gone further in explaining this in my new discussion titled "There Are None So Blind -- As He Who Will Not See!"

 

And, while I cannot make the call -- it most certainly seems to me that Uno is not, was not, and never has been -- a Christian believer.  As a matter of fact -- I am not even sure he has ever learned to spell Christian -- much less, be one.  But, as I said -- just my observation and opinion.   I will leave the rest to God.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

No bill, you aren't qualified to "make the call", and once again I say to you that you are not a believer. Using your own logic that is. 


Hi Jennifer,

 

I would love to have you explain this a wee bit further.  If you can.  If you cannot and this was just more huffing and puffing, we all will understand.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

First of all bill I don't "huff and puff". You really need to learn a few new phrases. You aren't talking to your little grandchildren. You look ignorant. Using your logic you can't be a christian because you don't think people can have a change of mind so you're still a heathen.

 

You try to come across as a very intelligent person but you fall way short. Any truly intelligent person would know there is always a chance that people can and will change their minds about the existance of a god.  You constantly try to belittle people by claiming they never believed, or in the case of crusty, they don't believe now.  

 

 You accuse people of just tossing something away yet you can offer no valid reason for that person to do that. Even when people tell you they weren't looking for anything else in their life you insist they were. You put on your big old reverand bill hat and start telling them they wanted worldly things blah blah blah. Well gee bill, don't you buy things? What do you have in your house that some would consider luxuries or frivilous or "worldly"? Isn't your wife working right now? What are you doing bill if not chasing after the "worldly" almighty buck? A person doesn't have to lack a belief in a god to do bad things. There are pleny of examples of people that think they're the perfect christian that do awful things, things I'd never consider doing.

 

As far as your tired old "huffing and puffing" phrase, apply that to yourself.  I told you once before but you ignored it-take a look at anyone in your family. Look at your grandkids and the little children in sunday school, then remember this bill-any of them, at any point in their life, could start having the same doubts creep in that I and other atheists had. And any one of them can come to the same conclusion that I did, a god just does not exist. Then let's see how you treat them, let's see how proud you are of them. The only thing that will change about them will be that they just don't believe anymore. That and your treatment of them.

quote:   Originally Posted by House of David:
I believe some of these eastern meditations exclude Jesus. That would be dangerous to a soul.

Hi David,

 

Can you name even one Eastern World Religion which recognizes Jesus Christ as the preexisting God, God Incarnate, and the Son of God?  No, for none do.  Some may recognize Him as a great teacher, prophet, a great man.  But, none see Him as God.  Therefore, anything to do with Eastern mysticism, religion, etc. -- is a danger to man's eternal soul.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

What has religion got to do with meditation? I honestly didn't think some of you could get more off the wall.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meditation: A simple, fast way to reduce stress

Meditation can wipe away the day's stress, bringing with it inner peace. See how you can easily learn to practice meditation whenever you need it most.

By Mayo Clinic staff

If stress has you anxious, tense and worried, consider trying meditation. Spending even a few minutes in meditation can restore your calm and inner peace.

Anyone can practice meditation. It's simple and inexpensive, and it doesn't require any special equipment. And you can practice meditation wherever you are — whether you're out for a walk, riding the bus, waiting at the doctor's office or even in the middle of a difficult business meeting.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/meditation/HQ01070

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