The reason I ask,

This verse, the last one I post on that thread, made me think about Free Will.

 

Heb 6: 4-8

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt.

 

[4] "It is impossible"... The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell.

 

So if you come back after falling fron grace and not really return to the

happy state you once knew. You did make that choice to sin in the first place

and you did choose to come back. Is that free will?

Or has God taken away your free will with----You're going to Heaven,

doesn't matter what you want.-----signed....God

 

Original Post

Many that support the "once saved, always saved" doctrine use the scripture in Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

You may not can separate yourself from the love of God, but you can separate yourself from the salvation which is in Christ.

 

As far as free will, there are scriptures to show that man can make choices. If we have choices, we have free will. Here’s 3 scriptures that came to mind.

 

James 4:17 say “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” 

 

Deuteronomy 30:19 says “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.”

 

Joshua 24:15 says “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Many that support the "once saved, always saved" doctrine use the scripture in Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

You may not can separate yourself from the love of God, but you can separate yourself from the salvation which is in Christ.

 

 

------------------
semi, If someone is in hell, they just might be separaetd from the love

of God. Being persuaded is another thing.

.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Many that support the "once saved, always saved" doctrine use the scripture in Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

You may not can separate yourself from the love of God, but you can separate yourself from the salvation which is in Christ. 

------------------

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

semi, If someone is in hell, they just might be separaetd from the love

of God. Being persuaded is another thing.

**************************************

I was speaking of the living.

When in Hell, that's definitely separation, & it sure ain't love. JMHO 

.

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Many that support the "once saved, always saved" doctrine use the scripture in Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

You may not can separate yourself from the love of God, but you can separate yourself from the salvation which is in Christ. 

------------------

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

semi, If someone is in hell, they just might be separaetd from the love

of God. Being persuaded is another thing.

**************************************

I was speaking of the living.

When in Hell, that's definitely separation, & it sure ain't love. JMHO 

.

 ----------------------------------

Yeah semi, I see what you're saying, your right.


 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Yeah semi, I see what you're saying, your right.


 **************************

My opinions are in no way meant to disrespect you.

We're cool, right?

---------------------------------------------------

We be cool...

 

.

Yes,

It absolutely eliminates your free will.(OSAS) The whole purpose of this life is to sort the good and the bad people. We are all children of God the Father. He created or Spirits before we came to this Earth.

Romans 8:

16 The Spirit itself beareth

witnesswith our spirit, that we are the childrenof God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirsof God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

In  James 2:

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

To me this tells us that by acceptance of Jesus Christ alone without works, you have nothing.  “faith, if it hath not works, is dead”

Romans 6:1

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:14

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

To myself these scriptures completely debunk Bill’s Theory of Once Saved Always Saved.

So If OSAS was true, If you were inclined you could  Praise the Lord and accept Jesus as your Savoir. Then later on in life you could by Bill’s Theory turn Evil Kill, Rape and Pillage and be saved by Grace.

    Not to downplay Grace by ant means. We without Grace could not be saved, for anything we did could not take away our sins. If though we continue to repent through-out our lives as we fail and sin( which we all do), we will be forgiven for our sins by the power of the atonement. As long as we try to do our best and repent when we don’t we will be saved by His (Christ’s) grace. By Grace all will be given eternal life but not a ticket to Heaven.

Skippy

The Good would be anyone who does their best to not harm anyone in anyway. And because no one is perfect, if one cause any harm to someone that they correct the wrong and ask person harmed for forgiveness.

The Bad ones are those who don't regard the other person in anyway even to the point of harming the other person(s). And then after they harm someone, have no remorse. And try in no way to correct that which was done against the other person(s).

In a nut shell, Good and Bad is how one treats there fellow being(s).

Skippy

I'm not a proponent for OSAS, but I'm also not in agreement with Bill's

interpretation of John 6:47.Amen, amen I say unto you:He that believeth in me,

hath everlasting life. To take this one verse out of a chapter that was talking

about a different line of thought all together is just bad business.

 

Jesus knew he didn't have much longer on earth and that day he wanted to

talk about the new sacrament, the Eucharist. He told his apostles that many of

his followers would leave because of how hard it will be to understand.

There's nothing symbolic about the Ecuharist and Jesus wouldn't knowing

run off some good disciples for a joke or some symbolic word game.

 

No, Jesus knew it was time to table this information. After he explained

it, and many did leave him, he asked his apostles if they wanted to also go.

And we know they stayed, they knew this was no joke and not symbolic.

 

Jesus wanted to leave his presents in the form of his essence with his

church. The apostles were taught how he wanted it done and the final

performance was the last supper.

Jesus did this for his people, the way he did it isn't for me to question or

any other person calling themselves Christian.

 

One thing I didn't expect was a person with such a calloused attitude toward

a sacrament so important to Jesus and he knowing it was going to be hard

to accept by his people. Jesus was very serious with the sacraments.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

"Something to consider. Let's say that the wine and unleavened bread did turn

into the blood and flesh of Jesus Christ every time a priest prayed over them --

and then, the millions and millions of gullible Roman Catholics ate his body and

drank his blood. Do you realize that, over the 1700 or so years the Roman

Catholic church has been in existence -- how many tons of flesh and how many

tanks of blood this would require? I don't think there would be a warehouse big

enough to hold all that flesh -- nor a tanker large enough to hold all that blood.

And, keep in mind that we are talking about Jesus Christ's human body --

maybe 5'8" tall, possibly 150 to 180 pounds. How do we get all those millions of

tons of human flesh and all those millions of gallons of human blood --

from such a human size body?"

 

What makes your sick mind say this about the very God you think you

believe in?

I don't know how any Christian would condone this.

 

One last thing, the Church is 2000 years old, you, more than once,

want to say 1700 years old.

Prove it.

 

Iv 

 

 

 

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