Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "'The Late, Great Planet Earth' -- Setting A Date?" -- my Friend, Contendah, tells me, "Bill, I have explained in detail and with precision my beliefs on many, many issues discussed on this forum.  In doing so, I have cited many Scriptural sources and have explained my beliefs in terms of those sources.   

If you are unable to approach any of the issues I have discussed without further information concerning what "camp" I am in, then that is your problem.  But I will say this -- In describing religious matters, I prefer not to rely on labels like "conservative" and  "liberal."  I prefer "Biblical" and "Scriptural," since I rely upon on these qualifiers to build my case when I discuss spiritual matters."

Okay, Contendah, I agree we can lay aside labels such as liberal and conservative -- and speak of our beliefs as Biblical and Scriptural.  I agree this is better.  But, quite honestly, I do not recall just what you have said you believe.   So, why don't we just level the playing field and both declare exactly what we believe.

 

I will begin:

I believe these are Essential Biblical Doctrines which define a Christian person or church.  To the degree that one varies from these Essential Beliefs; to that degree this person or church varies from the Christian faith:


1. The Deity of Jesus Christ -- God incarnate -- fully man; yet, fully God.

2. The Trinity -- God eternally existing; manifested (revealed) in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

3.  The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.

4. Salvation by Grace -- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else.

5. The Resurrection of Christ -- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected into eternal life.

6. The Gospel -- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.

7.  Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.

 

Beyond these, I do believe a number of Non-Essential Biblical Doctrines:

I believe in a PreTribulation Rapture of the church, the body of believers worldwide. 


I believe in a PreMillennial Second Coming of Jesus Christ to establish His 1000 year Millennial Reign upon earth, from the throne of David in Jerusalem.

I believe that Israel is still the chosen people of God -- and that the seven year Tribulation, as defined in Daniel, Revelation, and many other books of the Bible, is for the specific purpose of refining His chosen people, Israel, and bringing a remnant of Israel to faith in their Messiah, Jesus Christ.

I believe that Jesus Christ left two ordinances for all Christian believers to do in remembrance of Him until He returns:  Baptism and Communion.  Our salvation is, in no way, based upon us doing these ordinances; but, in doing these we grow spiritually in our daily Christian walk and in our daily Christian lives.  These, combined with daily prayer and daily Scripture study, give us spiritual strength to overcome the world -- one day at a time.

I believe that the entire Bible is God's full revelation to man -- and that none of it can be excluded.  Any theology which is not based upon the entire Bible -- is a flawed theology.

And, I believe that all of these Essential and Non-Essential Doctrines are accurately based upon Scripture.

Contendah, these are my specific Biblical beliefs.  Will you share your specific Biblical beliefs with us -- or will you dance around the issue by telling me, "I have told you before -- and I will not repeat myself!"

Personally, it is my strong belief that any Christian should be happy, actually overjoyed, to tell folks what he/she believes, based upon the Bible.  The apostle Paul tells us, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek"  (Romans 1:16).

Personally, I can, like the apostle Paul, declare that "I am not ashamed of the Gospel" and, therefore, will share it with anyone who asks. 

 

How about you, Contendah?  Are you ashamed of the Gospel -- or will you tell us, specifically and clearly, what you believe?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c

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I'll take number four for $100.00.

 

This is from one Michael Turner:

Those who try to twist the scriptures to justify their wrong position on baptism are defeated by the very book they seek to pervert. In Acts 2:38, we find not just the preposition eis, but the entire prepositional phrase eis aphesin harmartion, which is rendered “for the remission of sins” by the translators. Fortunately, and to the downfall of those who would assert their particular doctrine above that which is written, the Holy Spirit has unquestionably fixed the use of eis aphesin harmartion by allowing it to be used in a passage in which its use cannot be doubted. In Matthew 26:28, Jesus made the statement, “For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins [emphasis mine—AT].” This is the same prepositional phrase that is used in Acts 2:38. Therefore, those who support the “because of” argument in Acts 2:38 would, in order to be consistent, have to make Matthew 26:28 to be saying that Jesus shed His blood “because of” the remission of sins, which would, in essence, have the Lord saying His blood would be shed for something already accomplished. Who can believe it? Was the Lord’s blood shed “for,” “unto,” or “for the purpose of” the remission of sins; or was it shed because the remission of sins had already occurred? If it was shed “for,” “unto,” or “for the purpose of” the remission of sins, as Matthew 26:28 clearly teaches, then what justification do our Baptist friends have for translating the same prepositional phrase as “because of” in Acts 2:38? The only reason I can think of is the justification of their erroneous doctrine.

Bill, I do not need to construct some kind of detailed, itemized creedal statement to establish what I believe.

 

If it is taught in the Bible, I believe it.  I take the scriptures to be the inspired word of God.

 

Thus, if you wish to discuss ANY particular scripture, I am here to do that, and when I do that, I support my position with sound hermeneutics and cogent reasoning.

Originally Posted by Contendah:

Bill, I do not need to construct some kind of exhaustive, detailed, itemized creedal statement to establish what I believe.

 

If it is taught in the Bible, I believe it.  I take the scriptures to be the inspired word of God.

 

Thus, if you wish to discuss ANY particular scripture, I am here to do that, and when I do that, I support my position with sound hermeneutics and cogent reasoning.

 

I am, therefore, NOT in any way  "ashamed of the gospel."  I am prepared to defend any belief I have in light of what scripture has to say on the matter.  

Hi Contendah,

 

Not a problem.   But, it does make me wonder.   If a person cannot clearly, concisely, in a fairly brief statement -- tell us what he/she believes Biblically -- does that person really know what he/she believes?

 

This is true of a person, a church, or any Christian ministry.   When such will not, or cannot, clearly define what he/she/it believes and teaches -- is something being hidden? 

 

Several years ago, I came upon the web site of a church in the Midwest.  It looked impressive.  But, one key element was missing.  I searched and searched -- and could not find their Statement of Faith, what they believe and teach.  I sent an e-mail asking about this oversight.

 

I received an e-mail reply telling me that they do not post their Christian Statement of Beliefs -- because, in their own words, "They do not want to offend anyone."  Well, that certainly offended me.  And, I would imagine that it offended God -- that a supposedly Christian ministry will not declare His Word so that folks can know, precisely, what they believe and teach about God, His Son, and His Written Word.

 

So, Contendah, if you want to hide behind, "I have already told you" or you want to dance around -- or you cannot, in your own mind, clearly define what you believe -- we can just move on.  But, I would encourage you, for your own sake, and for the sake of your Christian witness -- to make an attempt to put in writing, briefly and concisely, what you believe.

 

I have driven across country a number of times.  But, I never begin the journey without first mapping out the route I will take, the time it will take, and what I want to do along the way.   In the Christian Life Journey -- this is even more important.   Do you truly have your map?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Old Faithful
 
2 hours ago
 

Hi Contendah,

 

Not a problem.   But, it does make me wonder.   If a person cannot clearly, concisely, in a fairly brief statement -- tell us what he/she believes Biblically -- does that person really know what he/she believes?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has to be one of the funniest things posted on this forum in a long time. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Contendah,

 

Not a problem.   But, it does make me wonder.   If a person cannot clearly, concisely, in a fairly brief statement -- tell us what he/she believes Biblically -- does that person really know what he/she believes?

 

[..........blah, blah, blah...............]

 

So, Contendah, if you want to hide behind, "I have already told you" or you want to dance around -- or you cannot, in your own mind, clearly define what you believe -- we can just move on.  But, I would encourage you, for your own sake, and for the sake of your Christian witness -- to make an attempt to put in writing, briefly and concisely, what you believe.

 

I have driven across country a number of times.  But, I never begin the journey without first mapping out the route I will take, the time it will take, and what I want to do along the way.   In the Christian Life Journey -- this is even more important.   Do you truly have your map?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Contendah gave you this statement:  

 

"If it is taught in the Bible, I believe it.  I take the scriptures to be the inspired word of God."

 

That is a succinct and sufficient answer to your original question.  Obviously you have turned off your reading skills and put on your pontificating hat.  Pay attention, Bill, dammit.

 

quote: Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Contendah gave you this statement:  

 

"If it is taught in the Bible, I believe it.  I take the scriptures to be the inspired word of God."

 

That is a succinct and sufficient answer to your original question.  Obviously you have turned off your reading skills and put on your pontificating hat.  Pay attention, Bill, dammit.

 
Hi Crusty,

 

Yes, I suppose that would be sufficient for you.  You remind me of the guy who meets someone who lives in Southern California and tells him, "Oh, I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles.  Do you know him?" 

 

Well, Duh! 

 

And, Contendah's little dance, "If it is taught in the Bible, I believe it" is about as ridiculous. 

 

Face it, obviously neither he nor you can tell us what you believe.   Lots of ranting and raving, huffing and puffing -- but, to get a specific answer to, "Just what are your Biblical Doctrinal Beliefs -- your Statement of Beliefs?"  And, you both get lost in another dance.  Why don't both of your just be honest and tell us that you have no Biblical beliefs -- just a lot of "You are wrong!" -- but, no "This is what I believe to be Biblically true."

 

So, I suppose all I will ever see from your two is another version of the Texas Two Step.

 

And, from you, Crusty, we should expect a highly intelligent answer like, "Oh, yeah?"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

From the unctuous and dogmatic utterances of Bill Gray, self-appointed decider of which "Biblical beliefs'" are essential and which are non-essential:


"I believe that Jesus Christ left two ordinances for all Christian believers to do in remembrance of Him until He returns:  Baptism and Communion.  Our salvation is, in no way, based upon us doing these ordinances; but, in doing these we grow spiritually in our daily Christian walk and in our daily Christian lives.  These, combined with daily prayer and daily Scripture study, give us spiritual strength to overcome the world -- one day at a time."

 

***************************************

 

Let's just look at communion for now, Bill.  It would seem that the Bible recognizes a far more significant role for that ordinance than you do.

 

I Corinthians 11:

 

"23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh ****ation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


But Bill sees no relationship between the Lord's supper and salvation. How about the matter  of eating and drinking the Lord's supper "unworthily", Bill?  The result of that can be the  ****ATION of the one who so offends!  That is what the Bible says. That is the importance placed on this ordinance by an inspired apostle of Jesus Christ.  If eating and drinking unworthily can condemn one to h ell, what do you think would be the fate of those who disobey the Lord's commandment ("This do in remembrance of me.") by not observing the Lord's supper at all?? That same Jesus also said, " If ye love me, keep my commandments.I(John 14:15).  One who would excuse himself from communion on the argument that it is not essential is wilfully disobeying a commandment of Jesus Christ.

 

Consider also, in this vein, I John 2:4:  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 

As to baptism, we have repeatedly seen how you denigrate that ordinance by ignoring the plain teaching of Romans 6:1-11, I Peter 3:21, Acts 2:37 & 38, and Acts 22:16. Your stratagem of artificially and incorrectly classifying baptism as a "work" just doesn't cut it, Bill.  Baptism is the place and event ordained by God where the penitent sinner gets into the death and redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, as clearly taught in Romans 6. It is God's work that is performed in baptism, not some meritorious work of man. Those who gin up their own cutesy catch phrases like "an outward sign of an inward grace," as though that were some kind of  proof that baptism is not essential for salvation, are leaning on a broken reed of bogus hermeneutics.

Originally Posted by Contendah:

From the unctuous and dogmatic utterances of Bill Gray, self-appointed decider of which "Biblical beliefs'" are essential and which are non-essential:


"I believe that Jesus Christ left two ordinances for all Christian believers to do in remembrance of Him until He returns:  Baptism and Communion.  Our salvation is, in no way, based upon us doing these ordinances; but, in doing these we grow spiritually in our daily Christian walk and in our daily Christian lives.  These, combined with daily prayer and daily Scripture study, give us spiritual strength to overcome the world -- one day at a time."

 

***************************************

 

Let's just look at communion for now, Bill.  It would seem that the Bible recognizes a far more significant role for that ordinance than you do.

 

I Corinthians 11:

 

"23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh ****ation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."


But Bill sees no relationship between the Lord's supper and salvation. How about the matter  of eating and drinking the Lord's supper "unworthily", Bill?  The result of that can be the  ****ATION of the one who so offends!  That is what the Bible says. That is the importance placed on this ordinance by an inspired apostle of Jesus Christ.  If eating and drinking unworthily can condemn one to h ell, what do you think would be the fate of those who disobey the Lord's commandment ("This do in remembrance of me.") by not observing the Lord's supper at all?? That same Jesus also said, " If ye love me, keep my commandments.I(John 14:15).  One who would excuse himself from communion on the argument that it is not essential is wilfully disobeying a commandment of Jesus Christ.

 

Consider also, in this vein, I John 2:4:  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 

As to baptism, we have repeatedly seen how you denigrate that ordinance by ignoring the plain teaching of Romans 6:1-11, I Peter 3:21, Acts 2:37 & 38, and Acts 22:16. Your stratagem of artificially and incorrectly classifying baptism as a "work" just doesn't cut it, Bill.  Baptism is the place and event ordained by God where the penitent sinner gets into the death and redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, as clearly taught in Romans 6. It is God's work that is performed in baptism, not some meritorious work of man. Those who gin up their own cutesy catch phrases like "an outward sign of an inward grace," as though that were some kind of  proof that baptism is not essential for salvation, are leaning on a broken reed of bogus hermeneutics.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Well Contendah, I guess you're going to get a volume of unrelated twisted

chapter and verse, but thanks for a much needed response to the dark side.

It's good to see the truth printed every so often.  

 

Iv

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