Even atheists are seekers

Oh the irony.

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Not sad, just biology and psychology.  We humans have a built-in survival trait that causes us to recognize a pattern even when patterns are not really there.  Seeing the virgin Mary in a piece of toast is called "pareidolia ."  Nothing supernatural about it at all.  It likely stems from our ancestors need to see the face of a tiger or snake through the trees or grass. If there really wasn't a tiger, no problem.  The ancestor lived to see another day.  If there really was a tiger, again, no problem, the ancestor lived to see antoher day.  So this ability to see tigers even when thwey aren't there was passed on from one generation to the next and allowed our species to survive and thrive.

Those who are non-believers still see those same patterns but most have not learned the tools of skepticism. The have have, for example, never heard of pareidolia.   Seeing patterns in the stars is an extension of the same trait.  Believing in Bigfoot, space aliens, fairies, talking trees are all examples of people who have not gone through the difficult, counter intuitive process of honing the skills of skepticism.  

I certainly consider myself a "spiritual" person.  I cannot look to the stars without a feeling of incredible awe.  The vastness, the mystery of the things we do not yet know, the possibility that we are alone in the universe or that we are one of countless worlds that harbor life give me a profound feeling of meaning.  My "faith" that science will give us answers to the Big Questions is immensely rewarding.  And, yes, the possibility (no matter how small) that some intelligent "force" started it all adds to the mystery. 

Believers commonly state that atheists do not find meaning or purpose in life or are sad creatures wandering through life searching for answers.  That is so ignorantly untrue, Ono!  There is great meaning and purpose and spirituality to be found.  I worship REALITY, ma'am!  The mysteries it contains are far more awe inspiring that some imaginary sky daddy.

Of course there are many non-Christians - Hindus, Buddhists, Fundamentalist Baptists, etc - who find spiritual meaning and guidance in other deities.

I certainly consider myself a "spiritual" person.  I cannot look to the stars without a feeling of incredible awe.  The vastness, the mystery of the things we do not yet know, the possibility that we are alone in the universe or that we are one of countless worlds that harbor life give me a profound feeling of meaning.  My "faith" that science will give us answers to the Big Questions is immensely rewarding.  And, yes, the possibility (no matter how small) that some intelligent "force" started it all adds to the mystery.

So you admit you are a spitual person, you just don't want a label put to it. That's fine. I don't like labels either.

From The Central Intellegence Agency

ESTONIA

Religions:
Evangelical Lutheran 13.6%, Orthodox 12.8%, other Christian (including Methodist, Seventh-Day Adventist, Roman Catholic, Pentecostal) 1.4%, unaffiliated 34.1%, other and unspecified 32%, none 6.1% (2000 censu https://www.cia.gov/library/pu...actbook/geos/en.html

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Well, I probably misnamed that.  When I gaze at the stars, I get the exact same "spiritual" feelings I used to get as a believer.  Like believers and their gods, I "know" some of the secrets of those lights in the heavens just as they pretend to know the heart of their god.  The facts of the universe are obviously out of the mental reach of so many.  I find that so sad.  Again, this is the same feeling I got when I considered the faithless when I was a man of faith.

The feelings of spirituality and mystery and awe never go away unless you let them.  For  people to dare claim that atheists (or people of other faiths) don't find meaning or purpose in life is just plain hateful and ignorant. But expect no less from Ono these days.

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If there had only been atheists in the world, we would have never gotten

this far.

 Encyclopædia Britannica indicates that the non-religious are about 14.7% of the world's population, and atheists around 3.8%. Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population. It is difficult to determine whether atheism is growing or not. What is certain is that in some areas of the world (such as Europe) atheism and secularization are increasing.

Atheists aren't any smarter than the next theist, it's just their only bluff.

The percent of theist in the world is what carries the world.

 A 2006 study by researchers at the University of Minnesota involving a poll of 2,000 households in the United States found atheists to be the most distrusted of minorities, more so than Muslims, recent immigrants, ***s and *******s, and other groups. Many of the respondents associated atheism with immorality, including criminal behaviour, extreme materialism, and elitism.

.

Well golly gee. Why then do you cry like a little girl that the country is becoming "godless"? If you're still in charge maybe you should clean up your act.  Least trusted? By who? I've only had so called christians try to cheat me. Atheists don't fly planes into buildings, don't burn korans and incite murder and religious wars, and we don't con little old ladies and men into handing over their life savings to a church. Atheists don't murder doctors and blow up abortion clinics. Athesists don't "protest" at military funerals. But you knew that didn't you? Oh and you might want to get a more recent report on the number of atheists.

Unob, go back and read my original post again. I spoke of those who worship trees, believe in crystals, horoscopes, and tarot cards. What is so hateful about claiming they are leading sad lives, looking for some kind of meaning? Do YOU think a fulfilled person would believe in the power of crystals? Don't you argree that a person who believes in tarot cards is looking for some kind of meaning in life?

And I STILL assert that you are insulting, every time you call one of us deluded. As for "stupid", you don't have to wait fo B to chime in. When you say the facts of the universe are "out of the mental reach of so many", that is exactly the same as calling them stupid. If you can't see that, it is because you don't want to. Perhaps you should pick up a thesaurus so you will understand that there are many different ways to say the same thing.

And I don't know about you, but I learned long ago that if someone says they feel insulted, it doesn't matter WHAT was said, they feel insulted. You have been insulting Christians ever since you joined this forum. If you can dish it out but not take it, perhaps you should just stick to the atheist forums for a while.

Has anyone ever taken a poll amongst atheists? Like, how many atheists think Christians are stupid? I ask because when I googled it, all I came up with were atheist websites where they did indeed, claim that Christians were stupid.

I guess all the atheists on those sites are sad and deluded and stupid.

Ono, you have to take that with a grain of salt.  When we see headlines such as "Child dies because father chose to pray instead of seeking medical help" we often (collectively) say "Christian are so dang stupid!"

So yeah, we are often guilty of lumping "all" Christians into the same bucket.  But we know, just as you do, that some, most, many Christians are not actually stupid. Just deluded. 

Just as I know that not all atheists are searching for meaning, they are just lost.

Define "lost" in logical, reasonable terms that even I can understand? 

Ah, but you WOULDN'T be able to understand.

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THAT.....is a cop-out.

___________________________________________________________________________

No, THAT is talking to Unob the way he talks to Christians.

-----------------------

Yes. That is still a cop-out.

Apparently we can't all get along, eh?

Actually, that's a cop out. Plus you're not just talking to Uno on this forum. Obviously RP and others are reading too. How about having a go at an actual answer?

Yes, others read, but I was talking to Unob. And, Pup, I can get along fine with most people, but I don't like hypocrites who believe in "Do as I say, not as I do." Unob demeans and insults Christians every day, but let a Christian suggest he might be lacking something in his life, and he says I'M being "hateful". You recieve what you give in life. I think it's time he realized that.

A., you say:

 "I can't imagine how you don't get that calling these people unfulfilled, lost and sad is not dismissive, hateful and ignorant."

___________________________________________________________________________

And calling Christians stupid and deluded ISN'T dismissive, hateful and ignorant?

___________________________________________________________________________

And then you say:

"Sorry religious folks. I know you've enjoyed the privilege of a free pass for a long time but no ideas or hypotheses deserve exemption from scrutiny. There is just no inherent right to not feel disrespected or insulted at the thoughts or actions of others. Suck it up and move forward."

Exactly! If you want to feel free to insult Christians, then YOU had better learn to "suck it up" and stop being so sensitive when someone points out to you that you are less than perfect. You seem to think YOU deserve a "free pass".  The double standard some of you hold is mind boggling!

------------------------------------

AR,,,,ONo is right about that, and most of the time when a religious topic

is started, most athests try their best to change the subject and/or stop

the talk about entirely. Who the hell made you Grand Marshal anyway.

.

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I think the irony that Gnu was probably alluding to was in your self-righteous contempt and dismissal of pagan worshipers, while doing just as they do, and then complaining that you get no respect. Like I said before, to us, y'all are no different.

BTW, at the risk of a logical fallacy, I don't think that people who claim to have conversations with trees and such are atheists. If as cited, "well over 50% of Estonians say they do believe in a spirit or life force, however ill-defined" then Estonia is only half atheist.

Wow! So if someone worships anything other than the Christian God they are sad and lost? I personally don't see any difference in those that worship or believe in crystals or trees than those who believe there is some supernatural being in the sky watching over them. Well, other than those that are worshiping crystals and trees have the advantage of actually seeing their deity.

So now O No you have taken up the stance that atheist here have a double standard? Seems like I remember a whole conversation that you and I had where I pointed out the double standard of Christians to you. You just could not wrap your mind around what I was trying to say then, now you have adopted that as your take on the relationship between Christians and atheist. Nice. It seems to me that you and others have no problem saying bad things about others religion or beliefs, but any criticism directed at yours is uncalled for and hateful.

"But because their lives are so empty, they believe in horoscopes and crystals and tarot cards and any other wacked out idea that comes down the pike. If they would only open their hearts to our Lord, they would never feel that emptiness, that lack of purpose, that desperation to find meaning in life. It's a shame."--O No

Let me put it another way and lets see how it sounds to you:

But because their lives are so empty, they believe in God and Jesus and the bible and any other wacked out idea that comes down the pike. If they would only open their minds to reason and logic they would never feel that emptiness, that lack of purpose, that desperation to find meaning in life. It's a shame.

If they would only open their minds to reason and logic they would never feel that emptiness, that lack of purpose, that desperation to find meaning in life. It's a shame.

And if they are open to logic and reason and still believe in a higher power?

 (awaiting B50 to chime in to say that when I tell someone a statement is stupid, it is the same as calling them stupid.)

No need, you did it for me.

----

"Higher power" aka deism is one thing.  The demonstrably evil God of the Bible (or Qoran) is quite another.  It could certainly be said that even I believe in Spinoza's "god of nature."  The immutable laws of the universe are a wondrous thing. The way nature has evolved such complexity is truly mind blowing.  Trying (and mostly failing) to understand how this all came to be but having "faith" that science will eventually provide the answer  is far, far more rewarding and exciting and truly meaningful than belief in any supernatural personal god ever was.

B50, when your "logic and reason" if first filtered through the lens of your fundamentalist religious beliefs, it is not "logic and reason."  

For all you lost people, Sam's is having a sale on GPSs.

This is hilarious. Some of you atheists continuously slam Christians with words like "stupid", "deluded", "unable to comprehend", "believe in the tooth fairy", "Your God is hateful", and on and on. Yet when someone gives it back to you, you cry like little babies.

You are such hypocrites it's a wonder you can look in the mirror.

--

Them things have directions to heyul on 'em? 

You just don't get it, do you? And here you keep saying that you believe in reason. Well, "reason" it out.

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No, I don't get it.  Not at all.  Reason cannot be applied to nonsense. You know that on some level which is precisely why you refuse to answer the question. 

I'm not lost, Ono.  I'm right here in the real world.  

Let me explain in small words that you can understand. You insult Christians CONSTANTLY. You have been TOLD your words are insulting. It has been explained to you endlessly that Christians are NOT stupid, NOT deluded, our God is NOT hateful, the scripture verses you claim are contradictory make perfect sense when taken in CONTEXT.

You continue to fling the SAME insults while disregarding our answers and explanations.

That shows me that you don't WANT a discussion, you only want to ridicule Christians. Somehow that seems to make you feel like a "big man". If you wanted DISCUSSION, you would acknowledge our answers instead of just writing them off as delusions or stupidity. It's obvious that you just want to taunt us, and disrupt the forum so we can't have a discussion. If that were NOT the truth, you wouldn't keep posting the same old tired things.

So, because I'm sure that you will never do anything BUT speak insultingly, I have decided that I will from now on, speak to you in the very same insulting, demeaning way. I ALSO think that from now on, I should completely ignore any answers or explanations you give, just as you do to Christians.

NOW  do you get it?