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Hi to my Forum Friends,

Continuing with my discussions on "More Thoughts On The Immigration Law Controversy" -- this story emphasizes what has happened in America -- students punished by a California public school official, a Mexican Vice Principal -- for wearing representations of our American Flag on what the official said was "a Mexican holiday." If it is a Mexican Only holiday -- why are we celebrating it in America? I have always felt that Cinco de Mayo was a Mexican-AMERICAN holiday.

So, let's summarize our current public school system. In our American public schools: God is not allowed -- the Bible is not allowed -- the Ten Commandments is not allowed -- Prayer is not allowed -- and, now, the American Flag Is Not Allowed!

No hablo español. ¿Habla usted inglés?

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STUDENTS SENT HOME FOR WEARING U.S. FLAG SHIRTS ON CINCO DE MAYO http://www.wusa9.com/news/wate...yid=100965&catid=148

MORGAN HILL, Calif. (KPIX/CBS 5) -- On Cinco de Mayo, five Morgan Hill, Calif. high school students came to school in red, white and blue, and got a very public lesson in school politics and free speech.

The boys came to Live Oak High School on the Mexican holiday, wearing t-shirts, shorts and shoes emblazoned with American flags.

Around 10 a.m., the assistant principal told sophomore Matthew Dariano he had to remove his bandana, which is against school policy.

But then Dariano said the assistant principal told all him and all his friends to take off their shirts, or turn them inside out, because some Hispanic students were upset and the school feared it would start a fight.

Dariano is part Mexican.

"Our Hispanic vice principal was taking their side, and was thinking that we were being racist towards them, so he was discriminating against us, making us take off our stuff," Dariano said.

"We're not trying to start trouble," said student Austin Carvalho. "We're in America. We can't wear our own colors?"

The boys refused to take off the shirts. They were not suspended, but they were sent home.

Referring to his shirt, student Dominic Maciel said, "I think it was disrespectful to my country, if I flip this inside out." Maciel is also part Mexican.

The parents of the five boys said the school's decision was un-American.

"You can't just single out these five. It doesn't work that way. That's not what America is about," said Julie ***erstrom.

Cinco de Mayo is popular at Live Oak, which is 40 percent Latino. The school even had ethnic dancers perform at lunch.

Live Oak's principal had no comment. The Morgan Hill Unified School District, however, disagreed with the high school.

"The district does not concur with the Live Oak High School administration's interpretation of either board or district policy related to these actions," said Dr. Jay Totter of the district.

By sundown, the district met with all the students and parents, and they all got good news. The t-shirts can stay. The students plan on wearing the shirts again Thursday.

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Would this have happened if there were not 12 to 20 MILLION illegal immigrants, law breakers, in America -- marching in protests and demanding "their rights"?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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It's sickening to see what is happening out your way Bill. I saw this article on Fox a few hours ago and I still can't believe what I read. If anybody thinks America can't be destroyed from within, they are living in denial.

In addition to this, there is a new film coming out called "Machete". This is an anti American film directed by Robert Rodriquez. Rodriquez is declaring war on Arizona with a special cinco de mayo message in the wake of the state's controversial illegal immigrant law. The message is: "they just (expletive) with the wrong Mexican". Great example of how these people will force their will on us by any means necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Would this have happened if there were not 12 to 20 MILLION illegal immigrants, law breakers, in America -- marching in protests and demanding "their rights"?


It is a shame such a thing has happened and the whole administration at the school should be fired but to blame every immigrant and call them all illegals is stretching it a bit, you are running border line racism with this post. Are the people that are marching against the Arizona law and demanding their civil rights back American Citizens and legal residents that happen to be hispanic or are they illegals? Most of the people marching against the Arizona law are US citizens who are afraid they will have to show proof on demand of their citizenship and be subject to harrasment from government officials, of course the will have to go along with it or face prosecution for not showing proof that they are suppossed to be here. Do people in Arizona now need to have identification on them at all times if they are not white? The answer is they had better under the new law.
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Would this have happened if there were not 12 to 20 MILLION illegal immigrants, law breakers, in America -- marching in protests and demanding "their rights"?

It is a shame such a thing has happened and the whole administration at the school should be fired but to blame every immigrant and call them all illegals is stretching it a bit, you are running border line racism with this post. Are the people that are marching against the Arizona law and demanding their civil rights back American Citizens and legal residents that happen to be hispanic or are they illegals? Most of the people marching against the Arizona law are US citizens who are afraid they will have to show proof on demand of their citizenship and be subject to harrasment from government officials, of course the will have to go along with it or face prosecution for not showing proof that they are suppossed to be here. Do people in Arizona now need to have identification on them at all times if they are not white? The answer is they had better under the new law.

Hi BFred,

When we say 12-20 million -- we are not including "legal" immigrants. That number represents ONLY the "illegal" immigrants in America today. Those are the ones being targeted by Arizona laws -- and those are the ones which should be targeted by American laws.

Actually, those illegals already are targeted by American laws. It is just that our Liberal politicians do not have the balls to enforce the laws which already exist.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Hi all,

This is the introduction I put on my Friends Ministry eNewletter when I sent the same article I posted on the Religion Forum today, "Even More Thoughts On The Immigration Law Controversy." This adds more insight into the problem facing America today:

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Today, I posted the article below on the TimesDaily Religion Forum, but, I was not going to send it to my Friends Ministry mail list for I have very dear Friends who are Hispanic, in America legally, and I did want them to feel that I was including them.

However, this afternoon, on ABC News (channel 7), there was a report of a new immigration demonstration in downtown Los Angeles. A demonstration which cost the already "strained to breaking point" economy of the city extra money to put police officers at the demonstration.

What really made me decide to send this message to all my Friends was an interview with one of the demonstrators. She told the news reporter, "We are demanding that America remove all agents and border patrols from the America/Mexico border. Having the agents there is causing unnecessary danger to those crossing the borders."

Well, by golly, why not just get rid of all our police officers also; for they most likely represent a dangerous threat to all bank robbers, home burglars, rapist, killers, and petty thieves. How dare we endanger the lives of these good, decent law-breaking people -- by having police officers on the street?

You might want to view this trailer from the new movie "Machete" just released by producer Robert Rodriguez:

'Machete' trailer, with a special message for Arizona http://www.heatvisionblog.com/...a-cinco-de-mayo.html

And, you might want to read this article from FOXNews.com:

Violent Movie Declares War on Arizona for Immigration Law http://www.foxnews.com/politic...ona-immigration-law/

Am I sending this message to stir up bad feelings toward our Mexican-American friends? No. In no way!

I am sending this because I believe, with all my heart, that our current Liberal administration in Washington DC -- with a leader who bows to Saudi kings, who bows to Japanese emperors, who apologizes to the world for America and for being American -- is weakening America in the eyes of the world. Yes, the same man who will not recognize the American National Anthem or acknowledge the Pledge of Allegiance -- because he does not want to offend his friends in the Muslim world.

If we had strong leadership in Washington DC; if we had strong leadership in state capitols; if we had strong leadership in all levels of our government -- instead of Liberal Apologists; the illegal immigrants would not be so emboldened and so encouraged to protest in our streets, burn our flags, turn our flag upside down underneath the Mexican flag -- and, in general, just thumb their noses at America and our American laws.

My Friends, please, VOTE IN NOVEMBER -- and when you enter the voting booth -- please, keep all this in your mind. Vote to bring America back to our roots; back to being a Christian America where we do not have to fear such things as are implied and inspired in the movie, Machete.

We are Americans: those born in America, those who are naturalized American citizens, and those who have their legal Green Card and are on the path to American citizenship -- are all Americans. What is an American? Well, we are composed of European-Americans, African-AMERICANS, Hispanic-AMERICANS, Mexican-AMERICANS, Asian-AMERICANS, etc. But, please notice that while we all come from other countries of origin -- we are now all AMERICANS.

Yes, we all, or our ancestors, have come from another land. But, it was done legally. Neither we, nor our ancestors, tried to take over America by flooding it with illegal immigrants from across the border -- as the lady being interviewed today on ABC News would have us do by opening the borders with no restraints. How could anyone in their right mind even suggest such a thing. Yet, this is the kind of thinking encouraged by a president who apologizes for America being AMERICAN.

Please, share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. We are Christians, and here in America, we are Christian-Americans. Let's protect America for our children and grandchildren's sake and posterity.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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Originally posted by prince albert:
your freedom is slowly slipping away because you don't want to hurt some bodys feelings they don't care to blalantly tell you what they think, but they might call you a Racist if you say anything, so just sit back and let somebody else attend to it, There is nobody else.

Hi Albert,

I would love to respond -- but, I have no idea what you are telling me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill you live in Southern California and can't see that California is slowly Electing people both to the State Government and Federal that thinks just the opposite to what you think? their name don't sound like it is a local everyday name. when they get a majority then you will march to their Drumbeat. in the Demonstrations have you not seen the Signs that say "we are only taking back what is ours"? was watching Glenn Beck yesterday evening and he had a lot of Legal Immigrants on, and they seemed like the every day American, I had no animosity toward any of them, it's these that say I'm here and there is nothing you can do about it that I detest.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Would this have happened if there were not 12 to 20 MILLION illegal immigrants, law breakers, in America -- marching in protests and demanding "their rights"?

It is a shame such a thing has happened and the whole administration at the school should be fired but to blame every immigrant and call them all illegals is stretching it a bit, you are running border line racism with this post. Are the people that are marching against the Arizona law and demanding their civil rights back American Citizens and legal residents that happen to be hispanic or are they illegals? Most of the people marching against the Arizona law are US citizens who are afraid they will have to show proof on demand of their citizenship and be subject to harrasment from government officials, of course the will have to go along with it or face prosecution for not showing proof that they are suppossed to be here. Do people in Arizona now need to have identification on them at all times if they are not white? The answer is they had better under the new law.

Hi BFred,

When we say 12-20 million -- we are not including "legal" immigrants. That number represents ONLY the "illegal" immigrants in America today. Those are the ones being targeted by Arizona laws -- and those are the ones which should be targeted by American laws.

Actually, those illegals already are targeted by American laws. It is just that our Liberal politicians do not have the balls to enforce the laws which already exist.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


By "marching in protests" I assumed you meant the protests about the Arizona law. I would say most of the people angry over that law are the ones that are here legally and ALL of the protesters that I have seen interviewed on the news have been legal residents and American citizens who fear that because of their race that they will be harassed to show proof that are here legally. Last I heard is that any government official (not just law enforcement) who claims they have reason to believe someone is here illegally can demand immediate proof of citizenship or immigration status from anyone. If the person fails to provide proof they can be arrested. I have no great problem going after the illegals but there is no reason whatsoever that any US citizen should be forced to carry paperwork proving citizenship (except for drivers license while driving). Of course I will probably never be asked to prove my status because I'm white however people such as my wife who is Native American and is sometimes "mistaken" for someone of Hispanic origin could easily be targeted.
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Would this have happened if there were not 12 to 20 MILLION illegal immigrants, law breakers, in America -- marching in protests and demanding "their rights"?

It is a shame such a thing has happened and the whole administration at the school should be fired but to blame every immigrant and call them all illegals is stretching it a bit, you are running border line racism with this post. Are the people that are marching against the Arizona law and demanding their civil rights back American Citizens and legal residents that happen to be hispanic or are they illegals? Most of the people marching against the Arizona law are US citizens who are afraid they will have to show proof on demand of their citizenship and be subject to harrasment from government officials, of course the will have to go along with it or face prosecution for not showing proof that they are suppossed to be here. Do people in Arizona now need to have identification on them at all times if they are not white? The answer is they had better under the new law.

Hi BFred,

When we say 12-20 million -- we are not including "legal" immigrants. That number represents ONLY the "illegal" immigrants in America today. Those are the ones being targeted by Arizona laws -- and those are the ones which should be targeted by American laws.

Actually, those illegals already are targeted by American laws. It is just that our Liberal politicians do not have the balls to enforce the laws which already exist.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


By "marching in protests" I assumed you meant the protests about the Arizona law. I would say most of the people angry over that law are the ones that are here legally and ALL of the protesters that I have seen interviewed on the news have been legal residents and American citizens who fear that because of their race that they will be harassed to show proof that are here legally. Last I heard is that any government official (not just law enforcement) who claims they have reason to believe someone is here illegally can demand immediate proof of citizenship or immigration status from anyone. If the person fails to provide proof they can be arrested. I have no great problem going after the illegals but there is no reason whatsoever that any US citizen should be forced to carry paperwork proving citizenship (except for drivers license while driving). Of course I will probably never be asked to prove my status because I'm white however people such as my wife who is Native American and is sometimes "mistaken" for someone of Hispanic origin could easily be targeted.


The liberal media is only going to show you the side against this law. Polls indicate overwhelming support for this law in Arizona as well as the rest of the US. You have to be skeptical when watching news reports. Our main stream media is so biased you very rarely get both sides of the story.
Don't forget also the student suspended in Texas for removing the Mexican Flag that was being given a place above the American Flag. If he had chosen to burn or rip to shreds the American flag he would have been given accolades I'm sure.

How about the number of Mexicans that actually feel that California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona and Nevada are still property of Mexico and was illegally seized therefore Mexico has the right to take it back. Sounds to me like they are in the process of doing just that.
Someone please explain to me how we (the normal, hard-working, average Joe/Jane), who SEEM TO BE the majority, can see how blind and spineles our government leaders are yet they continue to get elected. This seems so "cut 'n dry" and uncomplicated with an easy fix. Yet, nothing is getting done about it. And while I understand what everyone is saying about how we should get up and do something, what can I do? I didn't vote them in to begin with, and being that I have the responsibility of showing up at work each day, I cannot attend rallies and the such in protest. Please, someone, tell me what I can do? And how do I educate others on what to do? The state of our nation has become completely inane -- a total mockery. It sickens me. I pray that there is an answer to all this foolishness, and soon at that. God Bless America!
Tinabeth, the same pols who turn a blind eye on illegal immigrants are the same ones who want people to be dependent on the government for everything. Between the pro-illegal population and the population of welfare lifers, they have a lot of votes to put who they want in office.

How to fix it now after the problem has grown to enormous proportions? I don't have an answer for you.
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
Do people in Arizona now need to have identification on them at all times if they are not white? The answer is they had better under the new law.


While it is not a law to carry ID, it is common sense for people to carry some sort of identification with them at all times. White, black, brown, purple or green.

It is, however, already law for any immigrant to carry their 'papers' with them at all times. If a white guy that was described to look like me robbed a bank, and I was stopped because I matched the description, I think I would cooperate fully to clear myself of any wrong doing. Unfortunately, there are a large number of a certain race illegally entering the country in Arizona. Folks that resemble them are going to have to deal with some inconveniences until the situation is taken care of. If not, their (the citizens) freedoms will be just as at risk as the rest of us. Sometimes you just have to take one for the team......

Jeepin'
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Bill, What would Jesus do?
Would he open the door and let them in?
Would he feed them if they were hungry?
Would he tend to them if they were sick?
Are we supposed to live as Jesus to enter into heaven?

Will God say "I know you not" to those who refuse to shelter those in need?

Hi Jan,

In a Bible study, whenever there is a question -- the best answer is, "What does the Bible say about this?"

Why is this? Because the Bible is the Written Word of God. It is His personally authored full revelation to mankind for gaining salvation and for living the Christian life.

So, what does the Bible say about this issue of illegals immigrants, or anyone else, breaking the laws of America?

Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God;. . ."

I guess that answers your question. Since Jesus is God, and God authored the Bible, this passage in Romans gives us the answer. So, what would Jesus do?

No, He would not reward them with amnesty when they have broken the law and have not repented. How do I know they have not repented?

Well, they have not turned from their sin and turned to God -- for, turning from their sin would entail undoing the wrong they have done.

How can they undo the wrong the have done? By going home to Mexico and coming to America as legal immigrants.

Jan, I pray that I have answered your question -- or, I should say, the Bible has answered your question.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
am sending this because I believe, with all my heart, that our current Liberal administration in Washington DC -- with a leader who bows to Saudi kings, who bows to Japanese emperors, who apologizes to the world for America and for being American -- is weakening America in the eyes of the world.


Bill, Bill...now you're blaming Obama for immigration problems...someone said last night that Obama had the cap blown off the oil drill last week....to keep the Cubas from coming over...Clinton was in charge of finding the site of the correct oil well....
quote:

Hi Jan,

In a Bible study, whenever there is a question -- the best answer is, "What does the Bible say about this?"

Why is this? Because the Bible is the Written Word of God. It is His personally authored full revelation to mankind for gaining salvation and for living the Christian life.

So, what does the Bible say about this issue of illegals immigrants, or anyone else, breaking the laws of America?

Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God;. . ."

I guess that answers your question. Since Jesus is God, and God authored the Bible, this passage in Romans gives us the answer. So, what would Jesus do?

No, He would not reward them with amnesty when they have broken the law and have not repented. How do I know they have not repented?

Well, they have not turned from their sin and turned to God -- for, turning from their sin would entail undoing the wrong they have done.

How can they undo the wrong the have done? By going home to Mexico and coming to America as legal immigrants.

Jan, I pray that I have answered your question -- or, I should say, the Bible has answered your question.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I think you may be forgetting John 8....Here is a reminder.

John 8:3-11
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

So......I think that says just the opposite of your argument. Not that it will matter you will twist it to mean what ever you want anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:

Hi Jan,

In a Bible study, whenever there is a question -- the best answer is, "What does the Bible say about this?"

Why is this? Because the Bible is the Written Word of God. It is His personally authored full revelation to mankind for gaining salvation and for living the Christian life.

So, what does the Bible say about this issue of illegals immigrants, or anyone else, breaking the laws of America?

Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God;. . ."

I guess that answers your question. Since Jesus is God, and God authored the Bible, this passage in Romans gives us the answer. So, what would Jesus do?

No, He would not reward them with amnesty when they have broken the law and have not repented. How do I know they have not repented?

Well, they have not turned from their sin and turned to God -- for, turning from their sin would entail undoing the wrong they have done.

How can they undo the wrong the have done? By going home to Mexico and coming to America as legal immigrants.

Jan, I pray that I have answered your question -- or, I should say, the Bible has answered your question.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I think you may be forgetting John 8....Here is a reminder.

John 8:3-11
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

So......I think that says just the opposite of your argument. Not that it will matter you will twist it to mean what ever you want anyway.


So your argument is we should not be punished by men nor should we enforce our laws. You really do live on Fantasy Island.

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