FACT CHECK: Ryan takes factual shortcuts in speech

They couldn't find enough Obama quotes to twist and turn into lies. So they made up some lies of their own. That's being "productive and hard working."

And the Democrats have never had inaccuracies in their speeches and statements?  If indeed the statements were inaccurate then it should spark several questions.  First did Ryan write his own speech or was it some speechwriter that did it?  If a speechwriter then why didn't Ryan check the facts first for it reflects upon him directly?  In this day and time given google and exposure to information surely anyone, with reason, would not expect that they could make statements that would not be totally examined and scrutinized so to think or suggest that Ryan would deliberately make deceptive statements is beyond belief especially given the platform he has and where he was making the speech from.  

If though it is proven that the statements were false or misleading then it does reflect badly upon his decision to trust whoever made the speech, provided him with the date, or upon his own research.  That said he isn't the first nor will he be the last to say something that is wrong.  The fact that the factory closed is real the decision to close it might have been made in the last days of the Bush Presidency but Obama took office before it actually shut down production so in this one instance it's possible that the statement could be taken as true or inaccurate either way depending on which way you look at it.  

What is unquestionable is that Obama hasn't turned things around and that things have either remained the same or gotten worse in the three years plus that Obama has held office.  In the two years that the Democrats had unquestionable power and ability to do anything or pass anything without the Republicans being able to do anything about it they (Democrats) did nothing to keep that factory open or enable it to be reopened nor did they do anything to greatly effect the economy in a positive direction.  They did not keep GM or Chrysler from declaring bankruptcy but they were able to send them enough money to protect the huge benefits the Unions had negotiated so that when bankruptcy was filed the Unions would be protected but hundreds of dealership, privately owned and operated, were not protected and had to close.  They were forced to close under the agreement putting many salespeople and service people out of work.  

What is a fact is that the Democrats cannot run on their record or accomplishments but rather they have to run on demonizing their opponents and finding fault with them.  It's not re-elect us because of what we have done but rather it's don't elect them.  

I don't personally know if what he said is true or false or to what degree misleading if it was but I also believe that it's highly possible that the reports are accurate about his statements not being entirely accurate.  So regarding this topic can you who want to make something out of this say that the Democrats and Liberals have never done the same?

G,

Are you actually saying that if a Democrat lies its ok for a Republican to lie? I don't work that way. I check the fact on both sides. If you are interested in the truth and you want to be informed that is what you do. I most certainly hold Ryan responsible for what he puts forth as the truth. Most of the things he was being untruthful about he should know without fact checking.

From the article:

"RYAN: "And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly. ... So they just took it all away from Medicare. Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim ignores the fact that Ryan himself incorporated the same cuts into budgets he steered through the House in the past two years as chairman of its Budget Committee, using the money for deficit reduction. And the cuts do not affect Medicare recipients directly, but rather reduce payments to hospitals, health insurance plans and other service providers.

In addition, Ryan's own plan to remake Medicare would squeeze the program's spending even more than the changes Obama made, shifting future retirees into a system in which they would get a fixed payment to shop for coverage among private insurance plans. Critics charge that would expose the elderly to more out-of-pocket costs."

So how would he not know this GK?

How bout this:

RYAN: Said Obama misled people in Ryan's hometown of Janesville, Wis., by making them think a General Motors plant there threatened with closure could be saved. "A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: 'I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years.' That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year."

THE FACTS: The plant halted production in December 2008, weeks before Obama took office and well before he enacted a more robust auto industry bailout that rescued GM and Chrysler and allowed the majority of their plants — though not the Janesville facility — to stay in operation. Ryan himself voted for an auto bailout under President George W. Bush that was designed to help GM, but he was a vocal critic of the one pushed through by Obama that has been widely credited with revitalizing both GM and Chrysler.

Instead of getting off course with pointing the finger at what you feel Obama has or has not done, I would like to stay focused on the topic at hand.

Ryan is lying. If he will so bold face lie and mislead on national tv and in front of all those in the media what else will he lie and mislead on? To me when you try and fool me so blatantly then you either think I am stupid or you don't care for the truth in any sense.

Obama will get his chance to make his case when the Democratic Convention starts. We will check his facts then, ok?

First all NO one side being untruthful doesn't justify or rationalize the other to do the same, I do not believe that.  Now as to the statement Ryan said.  The Media and the Democrats (as well as you in your post) said Ryan Lied!   FACT --- RYAN was TRUTHFUL AND CORRECT.

http://www.gazettextra.com/new...suzu-line-comes-end/

What is the truth ... PRODUCTION comes to an end April 2009 AFTER OBAMA Took office.  So could it be said that Ryan's statement WAS FACTUAL.  It may not have been everything that the plant had produced at the plant that lasted until 2009 but truth was that there was employees working and things being produced into 2009 after Bush left office and after Obama entered office.  That statement was true so now who is being disingenuous?   Note that the media, or many in the media is reporting Ryan's statement as a deliberate lie.  Note also that the media itself or various Reporters and Journalist and Commentators are not above lying to promote their own personal agenda or color a story to appear as one thing when it really isn't.  Note the way that Ryan's statement is being reported by many in the media as Lies which obviously by the link above it wasn't so who is really deliberately lying or being misleading?  In this case maybe the reporters, journalist or commentators are not lying deliberately but it's proof that they are not being professional at their jobs by not researching something before they run with it as CBS and Dan Rather did with the story about George Bush and the National Guard.  

My statement about this report of the lie was that I would find it unbelievable that a Presidential candidate or VP Candidate would, make a statement knowing that most citizens and media could easily verify all statements on the internet.  It would either be they were all too trusting of people that did not deserve or merit the trust or that they were misled by people they trusted.  It's easy when you are of one party or bias to be easily wanting the other side to fail or make a mistake or to pronounce such with hope that it's true but where is the real truth?

Given the link, I provided, above about the plant what do YOU say is the real FACT now?  Maybe it was half a fact because I have no doubt some production was halted in 2008 but truth is some production lasted until 2009, would you not agree to this?  If so then would you also have to agree that Ryan did not lie?

Now what about President Obama ... DID HE LIE deliberately?  To the American People?  When he informed the Public about the killing of Osama Bin Laden and how it went down the story told to the people, and us, was that he was killed as he was thought to be defending himself, killed in his bedroom with a "double tap" type shot because they thought he was going for his weapon.  NOW with the new book coming out by a SEAL that was there, second man behind the actual shooter that shot Bin Laden said that the President reported it wrong and that Bin Laden was shot while peeping out the bedroom door and fell back into the room.  Then upon entering the room saw two women weeping over him and they moved them away and saw Osama Bin Laden twitching with a mortal head wound and they pumped him with shots to the chest to finish him off completely.  That's not what was reported by the President then and up to now.  

WAS Obama lying?  Did Obama deliberately lie to the American People?  See I do give the benefit of the doubt and believe he acted on what he was told.  I hope that's it because if he was actually looking at video as it happened, of it happening, then he knew the actual truth and could be said to have deliberately lie to the American Public.  Is this an outrage?  Would this be as egregious as Ryan saying the plant closed after Obama took office?

Curious to have your feelings about the information from the URL I provided above and then the information the President put out verses the account of the SEAL that was actually there behind the man firing the actual shots in the house?   And regarding Ryan's speech and the allegations about what he said there is so much zeal out there to want to find something that it's easy to run with anything and make it into something it isn't.  

Again .. http://www.gazettextra.com/new...suzu-line-comes-end/

Proves that Ryan was not telling a bold face lie.  Actually in a way it could be said, truthfully, production ended in 2008 but only on one part of products produced at the plant but other products continued to be produced.  Production did end (totally) in April 2009 so technically Ryan's statement was truthful and that, with Google, is easily verified.   Although it's easy to say Ryan lied truth is he didn't lie regarding some employees and products produced at that plant so now are you still sticking with the statement above ("Ryan is lying. If he will so bold face lie and mislead on national tv and in front of all those in the media")?

Have you ever posted about fact checking president Obama? You did say you held both parties to the same standard did you not?

You need to check the facts on the part of the speech where he says "What makes you think the next four years will be any different than the last four years?"

Why are you waiting for the democratic convention to hold president Obama to the truth? He has been office for four years and I would bet you have not posted one post about holding Obama to the truth. If you haven't, wouldn't you say that's a bit hypocritical?

Gingee what I am saying is that it's possible for either candidate or party to put out false information with or without knowing it is false.  Candidates and politicians do use speechwriters all the time so it's difficult or impossible for the general public to know if the speech came from the actual politician (person) or the speech writer or a mixture of both.  A candidate also relies on other volunteers or paid staff to do fact checking for usually it's impossible for any one person to know everything or have time to do all that so naturally they all rely on secondary people.  

What can be legitimately questioned is a persons judgment based in who they put their trust in.  Mistakes can and do happen.  I believe that at times the benefit of the doubt has to be extended and given the platform and the stage I, personally, cannot believe that Paul Ryan would make statements that he either knew or thought were inaccurate as some have insisted or said he did.  

One party doing it does not justify the other party doing it.  Holding one party to one standard and yet not holding the other party to the same standard is also not acceptable but it happens all the time.  There is great hypocrisy in politics among supporters and parties.  To also say and expect that media outlets are not biased in their reporting is also insane for there is ample evidence that there is.  Fox leans to the Right but CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, and the New York Times are so far to the LEFT that Fox, being fairly close to center appears as far Right.  All should be held to standards and fact checkers should also be honest and truthful but we aren't in the fantasy world but the real world and mistakes and deliberate deception happens.  

Note also that this is from Yahoo.com who also posted this on the same page:

RYAN: Said Obama misled people in Ryan's hometown of Janesville, Wis., by making them think a General Motors plant there threatened with closure could be saved. "A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: 'I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years.' That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year."

THE FACTS: The plant halted production in December 2008, weeks before Obama took office and well before he enacted a more robust auto industry bailout that rescued GM and Chrysler and allowed the majority of their plants — though not the Janesville facility — to stay in operation. Ryan himself voted for an auto bailout under President George W. Bush that was designed to help GM, but he was a vocal critic of the one pushed through by Obama that has been widely credited with revitalizing both GM and Chrysler.

now consider the truth from a source local to the plant:

http://www.gazettextra.com/new...suzu-line-comes-end/

April 2009 was the actual secession from total production for there was still production going on after only one part was stopped in December 2008.  Ryan just mentioned that the plant closed, stopped production, after Obama took office and that was TRUE.  Yahoo however, along with many others, made a statement that was misleading that would lead many to believe ALL production stopped in December 2008 which is NOT TRUE!

Note also this is the same source (Yahoo) that fired their employee that got caught (aka revealed) on an open mike demonstrating his flagrant bias against Republicans.  Now everyone is biased one direction or another and in a perfect world a persons's personal bias would not be reflected in their job, if they are in a job that is supposed to be unbiased, but in the real world that doesn't happen so if yahoo is your source or MSNBC, or NBC, or CNN etc, etc, then I wouldn't give too much credence to what is reported.  

This is why I will be voting for Gary Johnson. The dems hate anyone who becomes financially successful on their own merits and the repubs hate anyone who isn't straight and white. 

So you seriously believe that if Obama did somehow keep the plant open, that the complaint wouldn't then be that he did it to look good politically?  That last bit of production that went on to April was 20 people, compared to the hundreds if not thousands that were there a year before.

It's playing with technicalities and if you stop looking at it through biased eyes you'll see how manufactured the entire argument really is.  Everyone knew two weeks ago that he was going to bring it up and how shady everything was yet he still did it, yet it's the democrats playing dirty.  It's politics.  Everyone is dirty.

Biased eyes?  The whole point is people, media, reporters, etc were making accusations that Paul Ryan deliberately Lied as if there was maliciousness and intent to lie in the statement he made that the plant didn't last for another year.  It was a political point sure but one he justifiably could use since Obama did indicate to them if he was elected that it could remain open another hundred years.  

The point that it closed is not the reason I brought it up but rather I brought it up because people were calling Paul Ryan a vicious liar for stating that the plant closed after Obama took office.  Media outlets were running stories that it closed (as if the whole and total production closed and ceased in December 2008) before Obama took office.  That was blatantly false yet was being run as fact by the media.  I cited the local publication stating that some production continued until April 2009 as a point to say Paul Ryan was technically right and did not lie.  His facts were accurate as he stated them yet NO ONE would resend their attacks and accusations upon him after that information was made known.

To me that's BIASED EYE.  Fair is fair and when Republicans do it to Democrats they should be called upon in just as those who did this Paul Ryan should be called upon it at least for this one part of the statement.  Not doing so taints even the Fact Checkers and calls anything they state into question as to if they are lying or misrepresenting facts in order to meet an agenda when they above anyone else should be impartial and unbiased.

I haven't heard anyone say anything other than it's incomplete or not telling the complete truth, which is true. All plants take a while to wind down.  I live close to a GM plant that closed in 2007 and two years later there still was security and other small groups of people breaking things down.  20 people.  Yep that plant was still hummin!

With post like this:

They couldn't find enough Obama quotes to twist and turn into lies. So they made up some lies of their own. That's being "productive and hard working."

and 

Most of the things he was beinguntruthful about he should know without fact checking.

and 

Ryan is lying. If he will so bold face lie and mislead on national tv and in front of all those in the media what else will he lie and mislead on?

Now I could be wrong but incomplete and lie are to me two different things and words and meanings and that's just quotes from this one thread.  The media and other post certainly claim Ryan was lying and being purposely deceptive.   Check the article I referenced again and you will find that it wasn't some cleaning or security crew but an actual production line still working at the plant so more than just a few people.  Ryan wasn't being specific about what products were or were not being produced but in his remark, that is being called a lie, he referenced when ALL production stopped and that was in 2009 so I am just saying it should not be called lying for it wasn't.   Surely you are not being so generous as to say that comments about what Ryan said is not being reported and commented on as being LIES and not just incomplete information?   Do you not honestly believe the motive behind many of those who are remarking on this or reporting on it in the media is to discredit Paul Ryan and make people believe he was being deceptive and not only deceptive but deceptive on purpose?  I'm just saying that they are being disingenuous themselves when they do this, and continue to do it, in the light of additional information which is most likely what he was referencing.  

There may well be some valid points or errors found in the speech for I don't know about the entire speech and it's content but on this point and this point alone the reports and statements themselves about inaccuracies were false and in error and the fact checkers didn't fact check themselves which makes the whole process suspect.