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Charges that Nancy Pelosi Committed a felony in Syria are FALSE.
The Wall Street Journal in an op-ed pubilsyed April 6, has repeated the false charge that Pelosi's meeting with Al-Assad may have been a felony.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200704080001
Other issues are discussed at this URL.
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/propaganda_noise_machine?src=other

The Logan act does not apply to members of Congress acting in any official capacity.
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
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quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
OH WOW, is this another Constitution Violation? Would like to see the spin on this one so Bush is to blame for this violation.


I agree, next thing you know they'll say Bush baited her so she'd go in for him -- so it will be his fault. If she is not smart to know that going to Syria might be a bad idea and a way to undercut America as a whole -- then my point is already made -- just cause she's the woman on top doesn't mean she can do anything she wants to do without consequenses....
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Yep, she's a felon. Logan Act applies.
Well you have FOUR Republicans to prosecute with her. Three who went the week before, and Issad, who went several months ago, and again the DAY after Pelosi.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN. \

Pelosi is third in line for the Oval office. She is the second Vice President of the United States, better known as Speaker of the House. It is SHE who introduces the President to the Joint meeting of Congress Assembled to receive the State of the Union Address.
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act


I can't believe this citation. You are pointing to a case involving a defense contractor making agreements with a foreign power, and equating that to a Meeting between The Speaker of the US House of representatives and a Foreign President that did not lead to any agreements, and did not involve any binding negotiations.

ARE YOU STUPID, OBSTINATE, OR BRAINWASHED? pardon me if I seem abusive, I don't suffer fools lightly.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Yep, she's a felon. Logan Act applies.
Well you have FOUR Republicans to prosecute with her. Three who went the week before, and Issad, who went several months ago, and again the DAY after Pelosi.
QUOTE]

And you point is????? If ANYBODY broke the law, prosecute them into the jailhouse, then bring them back out and prosecute them again.
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
OH WOW, is this another Constitution Violation? Would like to see the spin on this one so Bush is to blame for this violation.


LOL schnauzer, Bush has enough violations of his own without having to worry about Pelosi's!

And besides, if I were in her shoes, I would do what Bush did when ordered by a Judge to STOP the illegal wire-tapping, ... just tell 'em that she is going to keep on staying the course, that it doesn't matter what the judges say....

Notice the sarcasm above? Big Grin I mean WAY above Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act


I can't believe this citation. You are pointing to a case involving a defense contractor making agreements with a foreign power, and equating that to a Meeting between The Speaker of the US House of representatives and a Foreign President that did not lead to any agreements, and did not involve any binding negotiations.

ARE YOU STUPID, OBSTINATE, OR BRAINWASHED? pardon me if I seem abusive, I don't suffer fools lightly.


What part of "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation" didn't you understand? As usual Ed, you have descended to name calling when you are presented with facts you can't refute. This is why debate with you is pointless.
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act


I can't believe this citation. You are pointing to a case involving a defense contractor making agreements with a foreign power, and equating that to a Meeting between The Speaker of the US House of representatives and a Foreign President that did not lead to any agreements, and did not involve any binding negotiations.

ARE YOU STUPID, OBSTINATE, OR BRAINWASHED? pardon me if I seem abusive, I don't suffer fools lightly.


What part of "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation" didn't you understand? As usual Ed, you have descended to name calling when you are presented with facts you can't refute. This is why debate with you is pointless.
What part of Freedom to associate do you not understand. The Logan Act Cannot apply to CONGRESSMEN. THEY WROTE AND PASSED THE LAW.
Why are you complaining that she met with Assad, and NOT complaining that she met with the Israeli leadership?

YOU ARE MAKING AN ISSUE OF A LEGALITY THAT CANNOT BE AS YOU STATE IT.

If the Logan act prohibited meeting with foreign government leaders NO US COMPANY COULD DO BUSINESS IN KOREA, CHINA, JAPAN, OR SPAIN. In every case cross border business operations REQUIRES the business owner to negotiate with the Government in the Country they are doing business in. China more than most, since the GOVERNMENT OPERATES THE MANDATORY LABOR UNION IN EVERY FACTORY IN THE COUNTRY.
Your interpretation of the Logan act would put every wife of every diplomat representing the USA in federal prison.

As a reporter I personally met with the minister of defense of Japan. I personally met with leaders of the Greek Parliament. I personally met with the Vice President and President of the United States. I personally met with representatives of the Mexican Government. In no case was I acting on behalf of the United States Government, and with the exception of the President and Vice President of the United States I had NO OFFICIAL AUTHORITY TO HAVE THOSE MEETINGS.

Do you think I should be prosecuted for any of those meetings?

Do you think Barbara Walters should be prosecuted for meeting with Fidel Castro?
Last edited by Karl Leuba
quote:
If the Logan act prohibited meeting with foreign government leaders NO US COMPANY COULD DO BUSINESS IN KOREA, CHINA, JAPAN, OR SPAIN. In every case cross border business operations REQUIRES the business owner to negotiate with the Government in the Country they are doing business in. China more than most, since the GOVERNMENT OPERATES THE MANDATORY LABOR UNION IN EVERY FACTORY IN THE COUNTRY.
Your interpretation of the Logan act would put every wife of every diplomat representing the USA in federal prison.

As a reporter I personally met with the minister of defense of Japan. I personally met with leaders of the Greek Parliament. I personally met with the Vice President and President of the United States. I personally met with representatives of the Mexican Government. In no case was I acting on behalf of the United States Government, and with the exception of the President and Vice President of the United States I had NO OFFICIAL AUTHORITY TO HAVE THOSE MEETINGS.


Doing business with or visiting a country is one thing. The Logan act does not prohibit meeting with foreign government. It does prohibit negotiating policy with them or attempting to represent Foreign Policy on behalf of the United States....and that's a crime. That's what Pelosi did...not just visit and take cute snapshots for a vacation album. Only the Executive branch of the Government has the authority to negotiate policy or represent the United States on the matter of Foreign Policy. Being speaker of the house puts her two heartbeats away from being able to set foreign policy.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act


I can't believe this citation. You are pointing to a case involving a defense contractor making agreements with a foreign power, and equating that to a Meeting between The Speaker of the US House of representatives and a Foreign President that did not lead to any agreements, and did not involve any binding negotiations.

ARE YOU STUPID, OBSTINATE, OR BRAINWASHED? pardon me if I seem abusive, I don't suffer fools lightly.


What part of "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation" didn't you understand? As usual Ed, you have descended to name calling when you are presented with facts you can't refute. This is why debate with you is pointless.
What part of Freedom to associate do you not understand. The Logan Act Cannot apply to CONGRESSMEN. THEY WROTE AND PASSED THE LAW.
Why are you complaining that she met with Assad, and NOT complaining that she met with the Israeli leadership?

YOU ARE MAKING AN ISSUE OF A LEGALITY THAT CANNOT BE AS YOU STATE IT.

If the Logan act prohibited meeting with foreign government leaders NO US COMPANY COULD DO BUSINESS IN KOREA, CHINA, JAPAN, OR SPAIN. In every case cross border business operations REQUIRES the business owner to negotiate with the Government in the Country they are doing business in. China more than most, since the GOVERNMENT OPERATES THE MANDATORY LABOR UNION IN EVERY FACTORY IN THE COUNTRY.
Your interpretation of the Logan act would put every wife of every diplomat representing the USA in federal prison.

As a reporter I personally met with the minister of defense of Japan. I personally met with leaders of the Greek Parliament. I personally met with the Vice President and President of the United States. I personally met with representatives of the Mexican Government. In no case was I acting on behalf of the United States Government, and with the exception of the President and Vice President of the United States I had NO OFFICIAL AUTHORITY TO HAVE THOSE MEETINGS.

Do you think I should be prosecuted for any of those meetings?

Do you think Barbara Walters should be prosecuted for meeting with Fidel Castro?


You answered your own question when you said "As a reporter". Pelosi is not a reporter, she is the SotH. The President has a poilicy of no talks with terror supporting nations. Until Syria suspends supporting terror, Pelosi should honor his policy and avoid talking to terror supporting nations.
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." Sutherland also notes in his opinion the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report to the Senate of February 15, 1816:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act


I can't believe this citation. You are pointing to a case involving a defense contractor making agreements with a foreign power, and equating that to a Meeting between The Speaker of the US House of representatives and a Foreign President that did not lead to any agreements, and did not involve any binding negotiations.

ARE YOU STUPID, OBSTINATE, OR BRAINWASHED? pardon me if I seem abusive, I don't suffer fools lightly.


What part of "[T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation" didn't you understand? As usual Ed, you have descended to name calling when you are presented with facts you can't refute. This is why debate with you is pointless.
What part of Freedom to associate do you not understand. The Logan Act Cannot apply to CONGRESSMEN. THEY WROTE AND PASSED THE LAW.
Why are you complaining that she met with Assad, and NOT complaining that she met with the Israeli leadership?

YOU ARE MAKING AN ISSUE OF A LEGALITY THAT CANNOT BE AS YOU STATE IT.

If the Logan act prohibited meeting with foreign government leaders NO US COMPANY COULD DO BUSINESS IN KOREA, CHINA, JAPAN, OR SPAIN. In every case cross border business operations REQUIRES the business owner to negotiate with the Government in the Country they are doing business in. China more than most, since the GOVERNMENT OPERATES THE MANDATORY LABOR UNION IN EVERY FACTORY IN THE COUNTRY.
Your interpretation of the Logan act would put every wife of every diplomat representing the USA in federal prison.

As a reporter I personally met with the minister of defense of Japan. I personally met with leaders of the Greek Parliament. I personally met with the Vice President and President of the United States. I personally met with representatives of the Mexican Government. In no case was I acting on behalf of the United States Government, and with the exception of the President and Vice President of the United States I had NO OFFICIAL AUTHORITY TO HAVE THOSE MEETINGS.

Do you think I should be prosecuted for any of those meetings?

Do you think Barbara Walters should be prosecuted for meeting with Fidel Castro?


You answered your own question when you said "As a reporter". Pelosi is not a reporter, she is the SotH. The President has a poilicy of no talks with terror supporting nations. Until Syria suspends supporting terror, Pelosi should honor his policy and avoid talking to terror supporting nations.
You don't know the answer to the question. It is obvious from
quote:
The President has a poilicy of no talks with terror supporting nations.
The President has the prerogative of not sending delegations or meeting with delegations. BUT he does not have the prerogative of prohibiting elected officials from meeting with foreign governments. He is not the absolute authority.
He is not permitted to tell ANYONE who they will meet with. The law prohibits binding the United States with an agreement NOT reached by the administration and approved by the Senate. It is Constitutional law regarding treaties and it is statutory. Your position, extended, would make it criminal for me to read or publish statements made by Assad, or Hu, or Blair.
I need to clarify a little, the video conference I had with the members of the Greek Parliament was organized by them, and I was invited as a private citizen to respond to questions about US public opinion. It was done with the permission of neither the Greek government or the US government. It was a meeting between me and members of a political party in Greece including members of the Parliament, and one member of the Greek Cabinet.
The subject of the meeting was the invasion of Iraq. I am almost certain that what I said influenced the people I was speaking to. They were seeking information outside of the official government line.
Give Pelosi a break...she was just having old-fashioned 'dialogue'...ya know...Hilary style. Pelosi will never make the ranks of President before Hilary...she's in it to 'win' and will knock out anyone who tries to get in her way.

Personally, my vote would go to Alabama native Condi!!! The first African-American AND Woman President.

P.S. Just a little humor and not meant to hijack Ed's post.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Now let Me get this right, You drive a truck to deliver cars to Mexico one week and two weeks later have a vidio conference with the Greek goverment.And still have time to mess with a small town in Alabama's newspaper forum. Hum?
This needs to be straight. I had the conference in January of 2003. I was not doing much at the time. The deal in Mexico may not ever get going, it turns out that I would be competing with cars flooded by Katrina and Rita, and they are much cheaper than the vehicles available around Arizona, plus I won't deal with flood damaged cars. So Yes, the above is true Max...just because you cannot imagine anyone with years of experience, and a lot of real life behind him does not mean we, and I mean we, don't exist.
I remember being 21, it was 1963 I was out of the Army, free of obligations and ready to take on the world. Well I did. And it has been quite a ride. I was once expelled from Paraguay, I have signed the guest book at Phantom Ranch at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, I have learned to fly Civilian Aircraft, I have even been paid for Flying. I have traveled Tioga Pass in the early spring, and driven over Wolf Creek pass loaded to 40 tons. I have taught college journalism classes, and washed dishes in a Chinese restaurant. I have been to Paris, and I have seen the Alps of Switzerland. I have been paid by Associated Press, and United Press and the American Broadcasting Company. I have met Presidents and Senators and Governors and High Ranking NASA officials. By the time I was 35 I was the managing editor of a major Radio News Department. There have been 4 serious attempts on my life. I have worked and played, in Canada, Mexico and the US. I served in the Army in Germany. I was assigned to ten different units in a three year hitch in the Army. And Resigned an appointment to West Point. Max, Life does not have to be boring.
Well,EdeKit as my Dad once told me,"you don't know until you find out". And I'm older than dirt and still don't know, but still able to learn.
By the way, my best friend has a resident card for Columbia,he was there so much his papers just did not justify the time spent there.With a pistol stuck in his ear he had to answer questions the right way or he would be just a number.The Contras and blood letting on the streets, I know about.The news that never made it to the US.That's all I can say about that.
Last edited by themax
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Well,EdeKit as my Dad once told me,"you don't know until you find out". And I'm older than dirt and still don't know, but still able to learn.
By the way, my best friend has a resident card for Columbia,he was there so much his papers just did not justify the time spent there.With a pistol stuck in his ear he had to answer questions the right way or he would be just a number.The Contras and blood letting on the streets, I know about.The news that never made it to the US.That's all I can say about that.
I don't think that the world is a safe place. I do think that dead people are beyond domination. I hope you notice that the pistol pointed at the top of my head did not keep me quiet, though at the moment I was not stupid enough to argue. I walked away from that one and the other three were just not very good shots. Two of them missed completely, and the one that didn't failed because the chair I was in stopped the bullet. Don Bolles was killed a mile from my office by a car bomb. Jim Pederson ended up in prison for "obstruction of justice."

I think you already know that I am still around.
quote:
The subject of the meeting was the invasion of Iraq. I am almost certain that what I said influenced the people I was speaking to. They were seeking information outside of the official government line.


I'm calling BS on this one. Why would Greece want to speak to some random person in the US about Iraq? The Greek government has their diplomats, we have ours. They meet, exchange information, and take that info back to their respective countries. Parliament members do not have time to have video conferences with a random individual from the US and if they did, I seriously doubt they would put any stock in what you have to say.

You haven't influenced anyone on these boards, you expect us to believe you influenced Greek politicans? I'm not buying it.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
The subject of the meeting was the invasion of Iraq. I am almost certain that what I said influenced the people I was speaking to. They were seeking information outside of the official government line.


I'm calling BS on this one. Why would Greece want to speak to some random person in the US about Iraq? The Greek government has their diplomats, we have ours. They meet, exchange information, and take that info back to their respective countries. Parliament members do not have time to have video conferences with a random individual from the US and if they did, I seriously doubt they would put any stock in what you have to say.

You haven't influenced anyone on these boards, you expect us to believe you influenced Greek politicans? I'm not buying it.



Actually, Ed is telling the truth about this one, and he doesn't even know that I know about all that... ya see, there is this place on Pal Talk that Ed and my brother-in-law met a lot of years back... my brother-in-law TOLD me AND showed me where this actually DID take place!!! I remember that now!!!!

That is a tidbit that I had forgotten that was shared with family/friends way back then.

And to offer you proof of any of that, he would have to give out his real name... if that is the case, then ALL of us would have to do that too, because we cannot expect ONE person here to do that, now can we ???? You willing to give YOUR real name?
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
The subject of the meeting was the invasion of Iraq. I am almost certain that what I said influenced the people I was speaking to. They were seeking information outside of the official government line.


I'm calling BS on this one. Why would Greece want to speak to some random person in the US about Iraq? The Greek government has their diplomats, we have ours. They meet, exchange information, and take that info back to their respective countries. Parliament members do not have time to have video conferences with a random individual from the US and if they did, I seriously doubt they would put any stock in what you have to say.

You haven't influenced anyone on these boards, you expect us to believe you influenced Greek politicans? I'm not buying it.



Actually, Ed is telling the truth about this one, and he doesn't even know that I know about all that... ya see, there is this place on Pal Talk that Ed and my brother-in-law met a lot of years back... my brother-in-law TOLD me AND showed me where this actually DID take place!!! I remember that now!!!!

That is a tidbit that I had forgotten that was shared with family/friends way back then.

And to offer you proof of any of that, he would have to give out his real name... if that is the case, then ALL of us would have to do that too, because we cannot expect ONE person here to do that, now can we ???? You willing to give YOUR real name?
Thanks for the confirmation Kindred.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
The subject of the meeting was the invasion of Iraq. I am almost certain that what I said influenced the people I was speaking to. They were seeking information outside of the official government line.


I'm calling BS on this one. Why would Greece want to speak to some random person in the US about Iraq? The Greek government has their diplomats, we have ours. They meet, exchange information, and take that info back to their respective countries. Parliament members do not have time to have video conferences with a random individual from the US and if they did, I seriously doubt they would put any stock in what you have to say.

You haven't influenced anyone on these boards, you expect us to believe you influenced Greek politicans? I'm not buying it.
I rather think that you imagine that I am a random person. I don't want to make myself out to be a VIP, but I have been influential. Mostly its because I get involved.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I did a search for Pal Talk, it's a chat room. You actually believe Greek Parliament is going to discuss something with a leftist loony in a chat room called Pal Talk?

Nope, total BS.


You didn't understand what I said here... I said that my brother-in-law, who died nearly 2 years ago met Ed on Pal talk many many years ago... that IS a chat room that people from everywhere go to, even though I am not one of them...

WHAT I said WAS that my brother-in-law showed me some paperwork a 'friend' of his that he had met at Pal Talk was doing... I SAW IT... Also, when he died, there were SEVERAL people from Pal Talk who came to his funeral...

Ken didn't get as deep as Ed did in those endeavors, but it was NOT from the lack of him WANTING to, oh yeah, he WANTED to be part of it, but he just couldn't.....

I didn't meet Ed until he started coming here, and in a conversation one day, we found out he knew my brother-in-law...

NOTHING was said about what Ed had done was through PAL TALK, it was just mentioned as a 'common thread'.....

Again... if you want proof from Ed, then everyone would have to give out their REAL NAMES and ADDRESSES to expect him to do it... I know his name because of the paperwork I had read... and I am not sure Ed is even comfortable with ME knowing his name... that is something we have here... anonimity.

Or ARE you ready to start telling names and personal information?????
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I did a search for Pal Talk, it's a chat room. You actually believe Greek Parliament is going to discuss something with a leftist loony in a chat room called Pal Talk?

Nope, total BS.
NashBama, you are right, Pal Talk is a Chat Room. I have been a member, using this nickname, since 2002. On that system, I have interviewed a few people you may be able to recognize. Congressman John Conyers, Cindy Sheehan, Ann Wright, They have discontinued their "radio" service. It is also an international forum. It is also possible to create a private conversation through their services. It is also possible to put commercial content on through their services. I AM NOT GOING TO TRY TO PROVE THE TRUTH OF WHAT I SAY. YOU CALLED ME A LIAR. EITHER PROVE YOUR CHARGES OR SHUT THE HELL UP.
Last edited by Karl Leuba

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