Farewell

Sayonara.

Best wishes, but please come back and visit...

(Is Bill is the reason for you leaving? If so, why don't you just put him on ignore?)

Continue to be thirsty, learn from conflicts and be expecting challenges through life. Agree to disagree while acknowledging that in conflict respect begets respect. I appreciate your kind words of acknowledgement of our differences and hope from time to time you will be open to continued dialog within the forum.

Farewell for a season.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Sayonara.

Dang, I thought that had an "i" in it somewhere. Maybe that's just the southern translation of it.

Best Wishes to you. Sorry you feel the need to "leave", but I do completely understand. It is very painful to have your faith questioned, and to sit "on the hot seat".

May God continue to Bless you.

So you leave us, C.O.B.R.A.

I can scarcely blame you for leaving.

If I had had my lunch eaten on this forum as much as you have, I would leave too, lest I starve to death.

Or did your LDS bishop or other superiors order you to take leave of this forum so as to avoid additional public exposure of the confusing and conflicting doctrines of the LDS cult?

Bye COBRA, drop by from time to time. Betternu will miss you!

Dwight, I personally think it is a wise decision to stay out of these forums. It just gets too heated and the arguing about who is right or wrong will never be settled. I love my Heavenly Father and his son Jesus Christ and know everyone else does. But all our beliefs are much different. We need to put more time into spending time with our families and reading our Scriptures, all this nonsense of writing a dang book on these threads have not made a difference in the way one believes just brought up a lot of hostility. If anyone is interested in another church, I feel they should go to the preacher,bishop, or whomever not on these forums... I pray that we will all continue to live as our Heavenly Father would have us too... God Bless All of You!

Don't be God blessing me, I know who you are and I know you went to the Stake presidents wife on her Facebook page and told her so she would talk to her husband. Let me explain a few things to you. You lack much in your life and have much work to do on that person you see in the mirror. Instead of trying to use others to control me.
Stay out of my life. Also, I do as I wish and no one has power over me unless I give it to them. No leader of the church can or will force me out of here or any other forum. By your answers in here and your snottyness to me and others, I can see you are a control freek. I lived 27 years under the dominating hand of a woman like you and another 17 With a mother like that. You, WILL NOT control ANY aspect of my life by yourself or through others.
Go back to the political forum and when you see my wife and I on Sundays, do not approach us. My family is doing exceptionally well and doesn't need any advice from someone such as yourself. You need to get out of all the forums and spend more time with your family. I have found in life that the woman that attemps to control others and tell them where to work on in their life is only mirroring the areas in their own lifes where they are failing.
When you contact your friend on Facebook again because I hurt your feelings, be sure to tell them hi and that my wife and i really enjoyed eating supper at their house that time they had us over.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by dreamn:
Dwight, I personally think it is a wise decision to stay out of these forums. It just gets too heated and the arguing about who is right or wrong will never be settled. I love my Heavenly Father and his son Jesus Christ and know everyone else does. But all our beliefs are much different. We need to put more time into spending time with our families and reading our Scriptures, all this nonsense of writing a dang book on these threads have not made a difference in the way one believes just brought up a lot of hostility. If anyone is interested in another church, I feel they should go to the preacher,bishop, or whomever not on these forums... I pray that we will all continue to live as our Heavenly Father would have us too... God Bless All of You!

Oh, what have we here? A Mormon Civil War brewing? I suspect that there will be some serious cold shouldering going this Sunday when C.O.B.R.A. and dreamn arrive at the local LDS gathering place.

Looks like what I suspected was true. The local LDS hierarchy got alarmed at the way C.O.B.R.A.'s public discussions with us "Gentiles" were going and told him to buzz off the forum.

Call it damage control, I suppose, but it exemplifies the problem that Mormons typically face when their bizarre and indefensible cultic belief system is exposed for what it is--a chaotic, internally-contradictory, anachronistic stew of fables and homespun doctrines that can not survive critical examination when viewed through the lenses of history, logic and plain old common sense.

For a seaside, yes

quote:

Originally posted by gbrk:
Continue to be thirsty, learn from conflicts and be expecting challenges through life. Agree to disagree while acknowledging that in conflict respect begets respect. I appreciate your kind words of acknowledgement of our differences and hope from time to time you will be open to continued dialog within the forum.

Farewell for a season.

No, I have a much thicker skin than that, Bill has no power over weather I stay or go, hes no more bothersome than a mosquito bite.

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:
Best wishes, but please come back and visit...

(Is Bill is the reason for you leaving? If so, why don't you just put him on ignore?)

Holy Crap!

....Aaaaannnnnd the CF factor just keeps increasing...

In The Pirates of Penzance, one of the great Gilbert & Sullivan operettas, the policemen, who are leaving to engage the foe, keep repeating: "Forward on the foe we go, we go, we go, we go," until the Major-General, exasperated, rounds on them with: "Oh, but you DON'T go."

Like C.O.B.R.A., they proclaim a departure that does not seem to be happening.

Maybe you should reconsider, C.O.B.R.A. You say, "No leader of the church can or will force me out of here or any other forum." Do you know how you can best demonstrate your commitment to that assertion of independence, C.O.B.R.A.? Simply rescind your resignation from the forum and stay around and mix it up with us Gentiles! Neither your stake president nor your bishop nor any general authority nor the Quorum of the Seventy, nor the First Presidency nor the Prophet, Seer and Revelator himself should have the power to keep you from asserting your religious liberty.

Tight control of members is one of the primary characteristics of a cult, C.O.B.R.A. Slip those surly bonds of LDS restraint and show your would-be puppetmasters that you are one LDS who will not be intimidated into silence.

You might also suggest to your stake president or bishop that this forum presents a fine public opportunity for them to proselytize among the Gentiles, provided they can mount a credible defense of their faith in discussions with of others who know the truth about the history and doctrines of the LDS Church. But don't get your hopes up too high on that one, C.O.B.R.A. It has been my experience that LDS don't hang around very long when they encounter folks who know where they came from and what their church really teaches. They prefer to write upon a blank slate of ignorance. I doubt that the stake president or bishop would last any longer on this forum than you have.

Actually, no. In our church things are not that way. We all have the FREE AGENCY to choose to follow or not. No one FORCES or THREATENS anyone to get them to cower down. When the Bishop comes to me and says these are the facts, this is the results of your actions, this will be the outcome if you continue, not meaning punishment from them.
I am then given a choice as to what I will do. And, as I have taught in here, EVERY choice has its consiquences. After weighing the negative effects of Willam and Mini me, and their comments, I have decided its better for the church for me not to be fuel on their fire. Hence, MY choice is to back off for a season.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
So you leave us, C.O.B.R.A.

I can scarcely blame you for leaving.

If I had had my lunch eaten on this forum as much as you have, I would leave too, lest I starve to death.

Or did your LDS bishop or other superiors order you to take leave of this forum so as to avoid additional public exposure of the confusing and conflicting doctrines of the LDS cult?

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Actually, no. In our church things are not that way. We all have the FREE AGENCY to choose to follow or not. No one FORCES or THREATENS anyone to get them to cower down. When the Bishop comes to me and says these are the facts, this is the results of your actions, this will be the outcome if you continue, not meaning punishment from them.
I am then given a choice as to what I will do. And, as I have taught in here, EVERY choice has its consiquences. After weighing the negative effects of Willam and Mini me, and their comments, I have decided its better for the church for me not to be fuel on their fire. Hence, MY choice is to back off for a season.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
So you leave us, C.O.B.R.A.

I can scarcely blame you for leaving.

If I had had my lunch eaten on this forum as much as you have, I would leave too, lest I starve to death.

Or did your LDS bishop or other superiors order you to take leave of this forum so as to avoid additional public exposure of the confusing and conflicting doctrines of the LDS cult?

So you measured those "negative effects," did you, C.O.B.R.A.? I suspect that your "measurements" showed you that your apologetics for LDS doctrines were being negatively affected by the bombardment of truth exposing their falsity and absurdity. That being the case, it was wise indeed for you to beat a hasty retreat.

OK, granted I have been "out of the loop" for a while, but I am thoroughly confused. I thought one of the first rants by cobra was about how all the churches in Cherokee need to come together -- that that was the whole problem with the town of Cherokee -- too many churches separated by denomination and race. If he is a member of LDS, how does that affect him at all? Is he just on the outside looking in? Is there even a LDS church in Cherokee? It is obvious I have missed out on some crucial information regarding this whole thing. Oh well! Just curious how it got to this point.

quote:

beternU:
So you measured those "negative effects," did you, C.O.B.R.A.? I suspect that your "measurements" showed you that your apologetics for LDS doctrines were being negatively affected by the bombardment of truth exposing their falsity and absurdity. That being the case, it was wise indeed for you to beat a hasty retreat.

Or...maybe a little visit by the
Avenging Angels?

Mmmm... what can I say after that response? I wish I was controlling! I never meant to cause pain to anyone or ever have. Really don't care what you think about me..I just wanted you to realize that you were not doing yourself or the church any good with all these threads. I don't care that you know that I did talk to Sister Pettus on facebook. I have known Pres. Pettus since my family and his, all became members around the same time. I rarely get on any of these forums because of all the negativity in them. All of you that have contributed to this, I would suggest that you study what you believe in and you might have more questions that go unanswered than answered. I have never understood why people don't study their own religion instead of attacking someone else's, kinda makes you think they are not happy and still looking for something else.. I do hope God blesses you Dwight and your family. I share some of the pain also that you were talking about. Maybe one day in the future, you might let me share with you. With closing, everyone I hope that you all have a beautiful, wonderful day and tell your families and friends how much you love them!

And did we even get into the book of doctrines and covenants that really show just how false J. Smith really was.

Hi Dwight,

I am sorry that you have chosen to leave rather than have honest, sincere discussions with us. Even though you are speaking only for your Independence, Missouri based Community of Christ (RLDS) segment of the Mormon church and not specifically for the Salt Lake City based LDS church -- we could have had interesting dialogues.

However, your insisting attempts to maintain only one-side diatribes are exactly what Dr. Walter Martin described in his book "The Kingdom Of The Cults."

On page 196, Dr. Martin writes: "In their missionary program the Mormons continue to manifest great zeal and quote the Bible profusely. Thus it is that many true Christians have often been literally quoted into silence by the clever disciples of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, who flourish a pseudo-mastery of Scripture before the uninformed Christian's dazzled eyes and confuse him, sometimes beyond description."

Dwight, even though Dr. Martin died some years ago -- it would seem that he knew YOU personally -- for he has described your discussion technique perfectly.

As I said, true dialogues are welcomed. One sided, "never let you get a word in sideways" style diatribes I personally do not welcome.

Also, from your Swan Song post, it would seem that your main purpose in coming to the Religion Forum was to attract, or suck in, people to your Blog. In that you may have been successful -- but, I doubt any thinking person will stay long.

Or, as Beter suggested, and as Dreamn has sincerely requested -- maybe one of your church leaders has tightened the bit on your bridle and pulled the rein a wee bit tighter to keep you from embarrassing the whole group.

Either way, if you ever want a serious, honest discussion -- you are always welcome. I cannot speak for all the TD Religion Forum members, but that is my sentiment.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

To beternU and yes it's hard for me to say it but Bill, also. Thank both of you for doing a great job in showing the true flavor of the LDS.

To one that is not well founded they can be sucked in to this cult.

It doesn't matter how long you have known anyone, YOU CIRCUMVENTED the way things are set up in the church. It goes, HOME TEACHER, if he can't fix it he takes it to the ELDERS QUORUM PRESIDENT, if he cant fix it he goes to the BISHOP, if he cant fix it he goes to the STAKE PRESIDENT. There are NO provisions for women to short circuit the Lords established system. Like you did. You need to work on following established policy and not worry about what others do. It's people like you that cause problems because of your friendships. Friendships DO NOT trump the order established in the church. And if you don't like what I am saying to you in pubic, read what the Lord says about it in D&C. You are disrupting things in here and drawing un due attention on the church . If you have anything else to say to me, say it in front of the Bishop. You can't fix what you thoughtlessly messed up. Not only between us but on this forum. From what I understand, you stick your nose in way to many people's business but your own. I won't handle you with kids gloves, and I don't care who you're friends with, don't try to backstep and be sweet, all your snotty responses in this forum and in politics and the other forums are recorded for all to read. And no,I'm not being politically correct with you, more like Samuel the
Laminite.

quote:

Opriginally posted by dreamn:
Mmmm... what can I say after that response? I wish I was controlling! I never meant to cause pain to anyone or ever have. Really don't care what you think about me..I just wanted you to realize that you were not doing yourself or the church any good with all these threads. I don't care that you know that I did talk to Sister Pettus on facebook. I have known Pres. Pettus since my family and his, all became members around the same time. I rarely get on any of these forums because of all the negativity in them. All of you that have contributed to this, I would suggest that you study what you believe in and you might have more questions that go unanswered than answered. I have never understood why people don't study their own religion instead of attacking someone else's, kinda makes you think they are not happy and still looking for something else.. I do hope God blesses you Dwight and your family. I share some of the pain also that you were talking about. Maybe one day in the future, you might let me share with you. With closing, everyone I hope that you all have a beautiful, wonderful day and tell your families and friends how much you love them!

quote:

It doesn't matter how long you have known anyone, YOU CIRCUMVENTED the way things are set up in the church. It goes, HOME TEACHER, if he can't fix it he takes it to the ELDERS QUORUM PRESIDENT, if he cant fix it he goes to the BISHOP, if he cant fix it he goes to the STAKE PRESIDENT. There are NO provisions for women to short circuit the Lords established system.

***********************************************

Now this is interesting, would someone please share with me the whole seniority issue here?
Why go from this person to that person?

What's with the "woman's short circuit comment"
Can men short circuit it only?

please expand on this... Thank you

No, women and men have been known to short circuit the system, this one just happens to be a woman with a lot of time on her hands

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

It doesn't matter how long you have known anyone, YOU CIRCUMVENTED the way things are set up in the church. It goes, HOME TEACHER, if he can't fix it he takes it to the ELDERS QUORUM PRESIDENT, if he cant fix it he goes to the BISHOP, if he cant fix it he goes to the STAKE PRESIDENT. There are NO provisions for women to short circuit the Lords established system.

***********************************************

Now this is interesting, would someone please share with me the whole seniority issue here?
Why go from this person to that person?

What's with the "woman's short circuit comment"
Can men short circuit it only?

please expand on this... Thank you

But what is the system? the titles are interesting... Home teacher, Elders Quoram, etc...

Dreamn, on ignore ,
David, I can explain but it would have to be a face to face or phone con. It taks too long in here, better yet, I will post an explanation on my blog. I dont have a computer and my fongers are so big for this tiny keyboard on this phone screen. Plus, sometimes it substitutes words without me realizing it and message gets messed up. For one on one call 256+335+3226

quote:

sometimes it substitutes words without me realizing it

I hate when iPhone does that! I learned that the hard way too.

Kinda funny that you mentioned Home Teacher, I think you might have been mine one time but I never heard from you or talked to you! I have my wonderful visiting teacher and the missionaries that I see quite often. I'm not using my friendships to get anywhere! I want to know from Bill Gray, betnu and everyone else .. do you feel like I am disrupting your forum..? I would think not because it hasn't stopped anyone from posting their opinions. NO PROVISIONS FOR WOMEN TO SHORT CIRCUIT THE LORDS ESTABLISHED SYSTEM.. I can't believe you wouldn't even write something like that! Hey I love life and yeah I might stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but it is not to hurt anyone it is usually to help them! I have been getting on these forums lately but listen here.. you have crossed the line! You have no idea how my life is and what I do each day! I do not cause problems and if you were doing good I don't think anyone from church would have ever mentioned to you that you need to refrain!! Kids gloves..lol..I have quiet a few of those around here..but I will not use them when dealing with you either! I have never once in my lifetime been called snotty.. love it!

Oh yeah.. I have no time to myself. You have no idea! I don't even remember the last time I had 2 minutes to myself!!!!! Dwight ..you can quit with putting me down because it is not working ..

quote:

Originally posted by dreamn:
Mmmm... what can I say after that response? I wish I was controlling! I never meant to cause pain to anyone or ever have. Really don't care what you think about me..I just wanted you to realize that you were not doing yourself or the church any good with all these threads. I don't care that you know that I did talk to Sister Pettus on facebook. I have known Pres. Pettus since my family and his, all became members around the same time. I rarely get on any of these forums because of all the negativity in them. All of you that have contributed to this, I would suggest that you study what you believe in and you might have more questions that go unanswered than answered. I have never understood why people don't study their own religion instead of attacking someone else's, kinda makes you think they are not happy and still looking for something else.. I do hope God blesses you Dwight and your family. I share some of the pain also that you were talking about. Maybe one day in the future, you might let me share with you. With closing, everyone I hope that you all have a beautiful, wonderful day and tell your families and friends how much you love them!

dreamn, You say, "I have never understood why people don't study their own religion instead of attacking someone else's...." You might pose that question to C.O.B.R.A.. He has repeatedly insisted that his branch of the Joseph Smith Club is the ONE, TRUE, only Church that Jesus Christ established and has repeatedly informed members of this forum that any of us who rely on logic, common sense and orthodox, widely-recognized principles of scripture interpretation are just a bunch of spritual pygmies; that in our ignorant state, we can not understand the deep (or even simple) things of God because we do not follow his approved method. That method, as is apparent to those who have followed C.O.B.R.A.'s posts, consists of praying to God to send the Holy Spirit to personally inject the prayed-for knowledge directly into our questing brains so that we can then escape our pygmy state and emerge as spiritual giants like C.O.B.R.A. apparently fancies himself to be.

THAT kind of attitude from C.O.B.R.A. does not tend to cultivate calm and congenial discussions of differences, for obvious reasons. Maybe you can find some less smug and less arrogant Mormon--of either the Salt Lake Tribe or the Missouri Mavericks--who can come on here and actually frontally address the questions raised concerning the unusual and unorthodox beliefs of Mormonism.

We have had Mormons on this forum prior to the ermegence of C.O.B.R.A., but none of them lasted very long. They tend to scoot off quickly after learning that there are those of us on here who are intimately familiar with LDS beliefs and practices and who do not remain silent when bizarre and un-Biblical concepts are posted here under the color of alleged superior revelation.

quote:

Originally posted by dreamn:
Kinda funny that you mentioned Home Teacher, I think you might have been mine one time but I never heard from you or talked to you! I have my wonderful visiting teacher and the missionaries that I see quite often. I'm not using my friendships to get anywhere! I want to know from Bill Gray, betnu and everyone else .. do you feel like I am disrupting your forum..? I would think not because it hasn't stopped anyone from posting their opinions. NO PROVISIONS FOR WOMEN TO SHORT CIRCUIT THE LORDS ESTABLISHED SYSTEM.. I can't believe you wouldn't even write something like that! Hey I love life and yeah I might stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but it is not to hurt anyone it is usually to help them! I have been getting on these forums lately but listen here.. you have crossed the line! You have no idea how my life is and what I do each day! I do not cause problems and if you were doing good I don't think anyone from church would have ever mentioned to you that you need to refrain!! Kids gloves..lol..I have quiet a few of those around here..but I will not use them when dealing with you either! I have never once in my lifetime been called snotty.. love it!

visiting teacher? is that the same as home teacher?

beternu, I can remember from my young teen day's when my older hippy brother joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and many of his friends did at that time also. It kinda shocked people that we had Mormons in our area..but those days we were attending 2 Baptist churches..one in town and a country one that two of my great-grandfathers had preached at before my time. I saw how good my brother and his friends were living and the change in them, but only to go to every church service and listen to the church services and hear the preachers condemn the Mormons..it was terrible. I was about 12, I think..all thru my life I have attended many different religions. I joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints when I was 18, I do not go regularly and I truly am missing it. I just get so upset when people have conflict with their beliefs and I know it all goes back to my teen years.. I am not one to answer questions on our belief because I do not feel comfortable because I am afraid that I might be wrong. I guess I should have stayed out of here and kept my mouth shut, but I do know that no matter what religion you are, it does no good to push your religion on anyone. House of David..home teachers are men, visiting teacher are women..

quote:

The Holy Ghost

whoyagonnacall! bum-bum budadum bum bum . . .

ghosts? really?

quote:

House of David..home teachers are men, visiting teacher are women..

Cool.

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
In The Pirates of Penzance, one of the great Gilbert & Sullivan operettas, the policemen, who are leaving to engage the foe, keep repeating: "Forward on the foe we go, we go, we go, we go," until the Major-General, exasperated, rounds on them with: "Oh, but you DON'T go."

Dammit, they're still here!

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:
But what is the system? the titles are interesting... Home teacher, Elders Quoram, etc...

House, if you want to learn a great deal about the history and doctrines and practices of the LDS, I suggest you go to this very carefully-researched online source, "The Changing World of Mormonism," by Jerald and Sandra Tanner. The Tanners (he is deceased; she remains active) are ex-Mormons who are very intimately acquainted with what the LDS teaches and practices and who are also very knowledgeable about the history of the LDS. They have undertaken thousands of hours of research on these topics and the result is nicely presented in this online book:

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changecontents.htm

There is another very intereting source of info on the LDS, namely the "Church Handbook of Instruction," an "in-house" manual of the LDS that has been posted online in several places and thus made publicly available, despite the wishes of ther LDS to keep it under wraps insofar as the "Gentile" (that's non-Mormons) world is concerned. The LDS hierarchy really don't even want the Handbook in the hands of the general membership of the church. The thing is available in editions of various years on several web sites. Select from among these:

http://www.google.com/search?q...d=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

When the Handbook was first published online, the LDS had a cow about that and sued WIKILEAKS to try to suppress it, but since then I have to conclude, from the numerous sites where this document is available, that the LDS either lost the lawsuit or just surrendered to the inevitable unauthorized propagation of the Handbook.

The thing has a lot of stuff that is deadly dull, but if you spend some time with it, you will find a few items of interest. Here is an unofficial LDS web page where the Handbook is discussed along with and some examples of its content:

http://kolobiv.blogspot.com/20...of-instructions.html

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

House of David..home teachers are men, visiting teacher are women..

Cool.

wait...
What?

so.. women can't teach at home?

i'm not sure this makes any sense, other than calling women 2nd class citizens, liek the CoC does.

the CoC my wife used to attend had a youth program that her parents kept trying to get us to put our 2 kids in...
it was called "lads and lasses to leaders and leaderettes."
when pressed to it, when they wouldn't just take ' nah, we'd rather not' for an answer i ended up hurting their feelings a little, and todl them 'maybe YOU think it's ok to teach your little girls that they will never be as good as boys, that while they might make it to 'leaderette' they will never be a 'leader', but i plan on teaching my daughter to never settle for equal, to always go one step farther than the boys can.'

i told them the good part was that for a woman to prove she is twice as good as a man means she only has to work half as hard.

they are generally nice people, really... they just have that one little thing that makes me want to smack them both. they really truly believe that wife=servant. that man=master.
they really believe that it's mandated by God that a woman must never elevate herself past any man. ever. for any reason. in any situation.
they think Oprah is wrong because she allowed herslf to become the No. 1 talk show host. No. 2 would have been fine... but No. 1 means that someplace there is definatly a man that she raised herself above, and she should have quit before allowing that to happen.

anyway. they make me nuts with that whole thing, and they are finding it hard to not teach my kids their beliefs. not out of malice, mind, but from sheer habit. to give them credit they don't try and foist that kind of thing on my kids behind my back.

i told them - it took me several years working on their daughter to make her feel like she was a worthwhile whole human being, and not a kitchen whench - and i was not going to allow them to do the same kind of damage to my daughter.

anyway.
what was i talking about?
i hate it when i ramble.....

Nagle,

I like it when you ramble... you have very interesting post...