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Stolen form various internet sources including Wikipedia but many hundreds more can be found at Talk.Origins at Link

The "flood Myth" is a widespread theme among many cultural myths, though it is perhaps best known in modern times through the biblical story of Noah's Ark, the Hindu Puranic story of Manu, and through Deucalion in Greek mythology or Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Sumerian "Epic if Atrahasis"
The earliest known flood myth is contained in the fragmentary Sumerian "Eridu Genesis," datable by fragemnts of the story that were dated to 1600 years BC.

The story tells how the Sumerian god of Creation 'Enki' warns a human named Ziusudra of the gods' decision to destroy mankind in a flood. Enki instructs Ziusudra to build a large boat -- the text describing the instructions is lost but it probably measured by cubits. After the flood, Ziusudra is left to repopulate the earth.

After a flood of seven days, Ziusudra makes appropriate sacrifices and prostrations to An (sky-god) and Enlil (chief of the gods), and is given eternal life in Dilmun (the Sumerian Eden) by An and Enlil.

Babylonian (Epic of Gilgamesh)

The Epic of Gilgamesh is an epic poem from Ancient Mesopotamia and is among the earliest known works of literary fiction dating back to 2150-2000 BCE. Scholars believe that it originated as a series of Sumerian legends and poems about the mythological hero-king Gilgamesh, which were gathered into a longer Akkadian (Assyrian-Babylonian) poem much later. It was originally titled " He who Saw the Deep ." You reading this Deep?

In the poem, the hero Gilgamesh, seeking immortality, searches out Utnapishtim in Dilmun, a kind of paradise on earth. Utnapishtim tells how Ea (equivalent of the Sumerian Enki) warned him of the gods' plan to destroy all life through a great flood and instructed him to build a vessel in which he could save his family, his friends, and his wealth and cattle. After the Deluge the gods repented their action and made Utnapishtim immortal.

Jewish
The best-known version of the Jewish deluge myth is contained in the Book of Genesis (Genesis 6–9), but the two non-canonical books of Enoch and Jubilees also contain similar flood stories.

Genesis tells how "...the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, ( ...) And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth. So the Lord said, 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am grieved that I have made them.'"

God selects Noah, a man who "found favor in the eyes of the Lord" and commands him to build an ark to save Noah, his family, and the earth's animals and birds. After Noah builds the ark, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened". Rain falls for 40 days, the water rises 150 days, and all the high mountains are covered. The ark rests on the mountains, the water recedes for 150 days, until the waters are gone and Noah opens up the ark. Noah and the animals leave the ark, Noah offers a sacrifice to God, and God places a rainbow in the clouds as a sign that he will never again destroy the Earth by water.

The non canonical "1st Book of Enoch" adds to the Genesis flood story by saying that God sent the Great Flood to rid the earth of the Nephilim, the titanic children of the Grigori, the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis, and of human females.

Islamic
The Quran, written in the 7th century AD, tells a similar story to the Judeo-Christian Genesis flood story, the major differences being theological: in the Islamic version, Allah sends the Flood at Noah's request to punish those who refuse to listen to Noah's preaching of the oneness of Allah. The Quranic ark comes to rest on Mount Judi, traditionally identified with a mountain near Mosul in modern Iraq; the name appears to derive from the local name of the Kurdish people.

China
There are many sources of flood myths in ancient Chinese literature. Some appear to refer to a worldwide deluge:

* Shujing, or "Book of History", probably written around 700 BC or earlier, states in the opening chapters that Emperor Yao is facing the problem of flood waters that "reach to the Heavens". This is the backdrop for the intervention of the famous Da Yu, who succeeded in controlling the floods. He went on to found the first Chinese dynasty. The translator of the 1904 edition dated the Chinese deluge to 2348 B.C., calculating that this was the same year as the biblical flood. In fact, the Mideast flood myth tradition (including the biblical flood) was erroneously linked to a flood mentioned in the Sumerian king list, which was actually dated to 2900 BC.

* Shanhaijing, "Classic of the Mountain & Seas", ends with the Chinese ruler Da Yu spending ten years to control a deluge whose "floodwaters overflowed [to] heaven".

* Shiji, Chuci, Liezi, Huainanzi, Shuowen Jiezi, Siku Quanshu, Songsi Dashu, and others, as well as many folk myths, all contain references to a personage named Nüwa. Nüwa is generally represented as a female (although not always) who repairs the broken heavens after a great flood or calamity, and repopulates the world with people. There are many versions of this myth.

Indonesia

In Batak traditions, the earth rests on a giant snake, Naga-Padoha. One day, the snake tired of its burden and shook the Earth off into the sea. However, the God Batara-Guru saved his daughter by sending a mountain into the sea, and the entire human race descended from her. The Earth was later placed back onto the head of the snake.

Malaysia

According to the legend of the Temuan, one of the 18 indigenous tribes of Malaysia, the "celau" ( storm of punishment )is for the sin of the people whom angered the gods and ancestors so much that a great flood was sent in punishment.

Ancient Greeks

Greek mythology knows three floods. The flood of Ogyges, the flood of Deucalion and the flood of Dardanus. Plato (500-ish BC) in his book "Laws, Book III," estimates that this flood occurred 10,000 years before his time.

The theory of the flood in the Aegean Basin, proposed that a great flood occurred at the end of the Late Pleistocene or beginning of the Holocene (10,000 BC). This flood would coincide with the end of the last ice age, estimated approximately 10,000 years ago, when the sea level rose as much as 390 feet. According to geologic evidence, this flood would have taken place in the "blink of an eye" in geologic time where the sea level rose more than 75 feet in less than 500 years.

These geological findings support the hypothesis that the Ogygian Deluge may well be based on a real event.

Another Greek myth, The Deucalion legend has some similarity to Noah's Ark: Prometheus advised his son Deucalion to build a chest. The mountains in Thessaly were parted, and all the world beyond the Isthmus and Peloponnese was overwhelmed. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha, after floating in the chest for nine days and nights, landed on Parnassus. An older version of the story told by Hellanicus has Deucalion's "ark" landing on Mount Othrys in Thessaly. Another account has him landing on a peak, probably Phouka, in Argolis, later called Nemea. When the rains ceased, he sacrificed to Zeus. Then, at the bidding of Zeus, he threw stones behind him, and they became men, and the stones which Pyrrha threw became women.

And, one more, from the Germanic tribes (these guys alwyas have such manly gods!)

In Norse mythology, a flood occurred at the dawn of time before the world was formed. Ymir, the first giant, was killed by the god Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve, and when he fell, so much blood flowed from his wounds that it drowned almost the entire race of giants with the exception of the frost giant Bergelmir and his wife. They escaped in a ship and survived, becoming the progenitors of a new race of giants. Ymir's body was then used to form the earth while his blood became the sea.


Irish

According to the mythology of pre-Christian Ireland , the first inhabitants of Ireland led by Noah's granddaughter Cessair were all but one person was wiped out by a flood 40 days after reaching the island. Later, another flood rose and killed all but thirty of the inhabitants, who scattered across the world.

Hypotheses of origin of flood myths

The publication of "The First Fossil Hunters" by Adrienne Mayor, followed by "Fossil Legends of the First Americans," have caused the hypothesis that flood stories have been inspired by ancient observations of fossil seashells and fish inland and on mountains to gain ground. Though the Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, and Chinese all commented in ancient writings about seashells and/or impressions of fish that they found inland and/or in the mountains, it was no less than Leonardo da Vinci who postulated that an immediate deluge could not have caused the layered and neatly ordered strata he found in the Italian Apennines. The Greeks hypothesized that the earth had been covered by water several times, and noted the seashells and fish fossils that they found on mountain tops as the evidence for this belief. Native Americans also expressed this belief to early Europeans, though they had not written these ideas down previously.

Some geologists believe that quite dramatic, greater than normal flooding of rivers in the distant past might have influenced the myths. One of the latest, and quite controversial, hypotheses of this type is the Ryan-Pitman Theory, which argues for a catastrophic deluge about 5600 BC from the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea.

Another theory is that a comet crashed into the Indian Ocean in prehistoric times, generating a giant tsunami that flooded coastal lands
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Hi Skeptik,

There is one major flaw in your logic. All of these cities and stories were created after the flood of Noah. If you will read Genesis, you will find the flood occured; then several generations later, we have the character Nimrod, Noah's g-g-grandson.

Now, Nimrod decided to build his tower of Babel -- God put a halt to it -- Nimrod died -- and his widow, Semiramis, began the Mystery Babylonian Religion which is the grandfather religion for all those you mentioned.

It the old chicken and egg situation. And, my egg -- Nimrod -- came first.

Good try though. Just keep on stretching -- and one day you may stumble across some truth, maybe the Truth.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
There is one major flaw in your logic. All of these cities and stories were created after the flood of Noah.



Not true according to most sources: Link

The Babylonian text "The Epic of Galgamesh" and the Hebrew Genesis story are essentially identical with about 20 major points in common. Their texts are obviously linked in some way.

Which Came First Noah or Ut-Napishtim?

The Babylonian tablets which contain the full story of the flood have been dated circa 650 BCE. However, portions of the story have been found on tablets from about 2000 BCE. A study of the language used in the tablets indicates that the story originated much earlier than 2000 BCE. Variations of the original story have been found translated into other ancient languages.

Many conservative Christians believe that the flood occurred circa 2349 BCE, and that the account in Genesis was written by Moses in the 1450's BCE , shortly before his death. Thus, the Babylonian text must be a corrupted version based on a Paganized adaptation of the true story in Genesis. Alternatively, it might be an independent attempt at describing the world-wide flood.

Liberal theologians, noting the different names used to refer to God, and the different writing styles throughout the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures), believe that Genesis was assembled over a 4 century interval, circa 950 to 540 BCE by authors from a variety of traditions. 6

J and P seem to have based their stories on two original stories from Mesopotamian sources, perhaps based on a massive series of floods in Ur and surrounding areas circa 2800 BCE which would be perceived by the local population as being very extensive; perhaps world wide. Alternatively, it may have been based on the catastrophic flooding of the Black Sea.
Similarities between the Epic of Gilgamesh (written at least 2000 years BCE and Genesis (written between 500 and 1000 BCE) this means the Genesis story was written 1000 to 1500 years AFTER Gilgamesh.

Source: Link

In both the Genesis and Galgamesh stories:

The Genesis story describes how mankind had become obnoxious to God; they were hopelessly sinful and wicked. In the Babylonian story, they were too numerous and noisy.

The Gods (or God) decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds.

The Gods (or God) knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah.

The Gods (or God) ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew).

The ark would be sealed with pitch.

The ark would have with many internal compartments

It would have a single door

It would have at least one window.

The ark was built and loaded with the hero, a few other humans, and samples from all species of other land animals.

A great rain covered the land with water.

The mountains were initially covered with water.

The ark landed on a mountain in the Middle East.

The hero sent out birds at regular intervals to find if any dry land was in the vicinity.

The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return.

The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice.

God (or the Gods in the Epic of Gilgamesh) smelled the roasted meat of the sacrifice.

The hero was blessed.

The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well, because he promised never to do it again.
quote:
J and P seem to have based their stories on two original stories from Mesopotamian sources,


Clarification:

Contrary to popular notions, Genesis was probably not written by Noah himself (who was probably no more real than Gilgamesh).

The consensus among many biblical scholars (based on writing styles) is that there are four main sources (known as J, E, P, and D). These sources contributed to the first five books of the Hebrew Bible—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

The story of Noah and the flood, found in Chapters 6, 7, and 8 of the book of Genesis, is thought to have been composed of two sources referred to as J and P.
quote:
Contrary to popular notions, Genesis was probably not written by Noah himself


I've never heard anyone claim Genesis was written by Noah. Popular notion among Christians is that it was written by Moses. Scholars and historians believe it's a combination of ancient oral history, but that's besides the point.

This is basic Sunday School stuff you're getting wrong. What makes you qualified to tell Christians about the Bible if you make statements like people believe Noah wrote Genesis?
quote:
This is basic Sunday School stuff you're getting wrong. What makes you qualified to tell Christians about the Bible if you make statements like people believe Noah wrote Genesis?


Because I will admit when I am wrong. I am wrong. You are 100% correct. I got my Moses' and Noah's confused when I wrote that.

Oops. Sorry. My mistake. My bad.

That changes not the fact that no one really knows who wrote the first 5 books of the bible.

Now, please, if you have data that substantially contradicts the premise of this thread, please share it. As I have demonstrated, I am willing to admit when I am wrong.
I read Ryan and Pitman's book several years ago. It's an interesting hypothesis.

Link

Some of y'all might remember a breathless documentary in 1993 about "finding Noah's Ark" in Turkey. It was a hilarious fraud. Link

What is clear is that there was no worldwide flood. There is no geological evidence for such, as we would expect, and the biological evidence (e.g. species distribution, fossil, and genetic evidence) does not support the notion that all life forms came in their modern forms, from a single location.

Of course, there I go again, being reasonable. No doubt I'll get the opportunity to ignore another 6000-word manifestation of Bro. Bilious' insanity.

I do it for you.


DF
Hi all,

Is it only me, or have others noticed a paradox in the Religion Forum? Why is it that our resident atheists, those who deny that God exists, are the most active posters on the Religion Forum?

If I do not like ice cream; you would never see me at a Baskins-Robbins Store. Why would I go there, I do not like ice cream so, as far as I am concerned, ice cream does not exist. I surely would not get a chair and a table and sit in front of the Baskins-Robbins Store telling folks they should not go in there. I would just walk on by and go to a store where I find things I do like; maybe a Barnes & Noble Book Store.

Yet, our atheist Friends are camped right on our church steps. Why?

Do you think that, secretly, they are hoping that we can truly convince them that God loves them and wants to adopt them? Is there a crack in that secular, atheist veneer -- which keeps them sitting on our church steps?

Well, maybe that is a good reason for we Christian believers to be posting here. Jesus did tell us to be His witnesses -- and what better place that in the dark recesses of atheist minds?

Just a thought.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

Is it only me, or have others noticed a paradox in the Religion Forum? Why is it that our resident atheists, those who deny that God exists, are the most active posters on the Religion Forum?

If I do not like ice cream; you would never see me at a Baskins-Robbins Store. Why would I go there, I do not like ice cream so, as far as I am concerned, ice cream does not exist. I surely would not get a chair and a table and sit in front of the Baskins-Robbins Store telling folks they should not go in there. I would just walk on by and go to a store where I find things I do like; maybe a Barnes & Noble Book Store.

Yet, our atheist Friends are camped right on our church steps. Why?

Do you think that, secretly, they are hoping that we can truly convince them that God loves them and wants to adopt them? Is there a crack in that secular, atheist veneer -- which keeps them sitting on our church steps?

Well, maybe that is a good reason for we Christian believers to be posting here. Jesus did tell us to be His witnesses -- and what better place that in the dark recesses of atheist minds?

Just a thought.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill, you would have to be objective to understand.

Regards
quote:
If I do not like ice cream; you would never see me at a Baskins-Robbins Store (...) Yet, our atheist Friends are camped right on our church steps. Why?


I dig philosophy. I mean, really, really dig it. The problem is, no one around these parts wants to debate the great philosophers Socretes, Kant, Plato and Jimmy Buffet. So I'm left to toy with you, my bloviating, inconsistent Christian philosopher.

If you are correct, though, you won't have to put up whit me much longer. I'm about to deny the holy spirit which will evidently impart the gift of eternal dammnation upon my soul (see another thread on the subject). After that point, you will have no question where my soul stands.

It's funny how you almost always resort to these kinds of tirades when you run out of responses to a rational debate.
I'm way the on the other side of being an atheist. I just believe God gave us reason and intellect for a reason. Was the flood real, or a parable? If the flood was real, was it global or localized?

Scientifically, if you grouped all the land on the planet together in a sphere, the water currently on the earth would cover it to a depth of a mile or so. The description of the pre-flood earth has some scientific consistency to it. For example, an atmosphere rich in water vapor would cause the edenic lighting conditions and screen out quite a bit of cosmic radiation, which may have contributed to the extended life expectancies of the patriarchs. There's a basaltic ridge in the ocean that no one knows how it got there. The topography of the continental land masses is consistent with rapid land mass drift. (relatively rapid, that is). It would even be fair to say the number of species of animals was somewhat less since the climate was globally consistent and speciation had not yet occured. I've read this in other sources, but they're decidedly creationist centric. Could there be other explanations? OF COURSE. I may be a believer, but I'm not an idiot.

It's like the rest of the basis of religion, including the flood, the origin of species, or anything else. There is observational evidence that requires some hypothesis upon which to evaluate it. There's no way of evaluating the observations without assuming one framework or another. For example, the nuclear reaction of the sun is not what physicists originally expected...more neutrinos or some such thing. You can say the reaction is either the result of a young sun or an old sun, with either explanation having equal validity until other empirical evidence is found. We choose to believe, or we choose to not believe. Science is not the basis of my belief, but certainly I believe that even scientific and religious truths must eventually be reconciled. So I continue to read, study, and do science stuff to determine the true nature of the universe. Then, one of these days I'll retire and wonder why I can't putt. The universe will go chugging along, without me.
Hi Zip,

You have made very good points and I do not disagree with you on most.

Yet, when you tell us, "It would even be fair to say the number of species of animals was somewhat less since the climate was globally consistent and speciation had not yet occured. I've read this in other sources, but they're decidedly creationist centric. Could there be other explanations? OF COURSE. I may be a believer, but I'm not an idiot.

I will agree that there have been many adaptations in human, animal, fowl, and plant life. But, I do not believe there are any new species since the Creation. God is pretty smart -- and just like a good dinner host; He knew what He wanted when He created the heavens and the earth. Yet, you are correct that many species have had numerous adaptations with their families.

You say, " I may be a believer, but I'm not an idiot."

Being a believer is not being an idiot; yet, not being a believer does put one's sanity into question. I still fall back on two things in my faith: Hebrews 11:1 and the many times God has been there for me when all looked hopeless or lost; yet, He was there to pick me up and put me back on the path once again. In Malachi 3:10, when God tells us to test Him and see if He will not open the windows of heaven and pour His blessings upon us -- He was not just talking about material things; but, also spiritual.

Spiritually, God has always been there for me when I needed Him -- and materially, sometimes at the last minute -- but, He has always been there for me.

I would have to be a total idiot to not believe in Him.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Wow... you guys get off topic quite easily.

Anyway, I would think that evidences of the flood story appearing in many different cultures throughout the world would be proof that the story has a central origin and because of the details are consistent in each story, it has to be derived from one source.

In the story of Noah in the Old Testament, we read that no one else survived the flood, meaning that the entire human race would have had to come from those eight people.

To me the fact that these stories exist in all of these different cultures is a bit more than coincidence.
Nobody is claiming that there aren't truths to the stories in the bible. The argument is that the bible cannot be the inspired word of god if the people writing it didn't know that the entire world didn't actually flood and that noah and his "peeps" weren't the only people left on earth.

One of the points DF, GF, Skep, 8I, and others are trying to make is that the story in the bible and the factual data don't add up. This presents a problem when you try to use the bible as the source of evidence that an all knowing, all powerful god, created everyone and everything. Especially when he couldn't even get something as simple as the facts of a story correct.

Do you see my point or is this flying over your head as it does the rest of the "believers"?
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
Nobody is claiming that there aren't truths to the stories in the bible. The argument is that the bible cannot be the inspired word of god if the people writing it didn't know that the entire world didn't actually flood and that noah and his "peeps" weren't the only people left on earth.

One of the points DF, GF, Skep, 8I, and others are trying to make is that the story in the bible and the factual data don't add up. This presents a problem when you try to use the bible as the source of evidence that an all knowing, all powerful god, created everyone and everything. Especially when he couldn't even get something as simple as the facts of a story correct.

Do you see my point or is this flying over your head as it does the rest of the "believers"?


No, I understand what you're saying. All the evidence presented contrary to the biblical story all contained the word "hypothesis", which means it was some guy's unproven educated guess on how it happened. Some interpret the bible to mean that flooding the "whole world" meant that it flooded the land as Noah knew it... not necessarily the whole entire earth. (I don't necessarily believe this, however there are interpretations out there like that).

I'll be honest, there's a lot of science out there that I don't trust. Science is almost always backed by some sort of agenda. Very rarely is it ever straight facts. Many times scientists set out to prove something is false with preconceived notions, and then set up their studies to back that up. Many times their findings differ depending on who exactly is doing their financial backing.

We had a lengthy lecture in Sunday School last week about the specifics of why Carbon-14 dating can be inaccurate... we got into learning about half-lifes, sub-atomic particles, significant digits, the whole nine yards. (Getting taught gospel doctrine by a scientist gets pretty interesting sometimes). It proved to me that the problem with science is that we as humans are imperfect, and there are many more variables in existence than just a test variable and a control variable. I wish I could recite all that we learned Sunday... I'm certainly no scientist, and can't remember it all.

So many put their trust in science, their testing methods, their agendas, their reasoning, and decide that whatever a scientist says is obviously true because he's supposed to be a neutral source, right? He's supposed to be only facts and figures and numbers and significant digits, right? All he does is present a question, follow the scientific method, and only report what is truth, right?! Oh, wait... they're human, and humans are so less than perfect... oh, and the world is flat, too.
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It is good that you are taking time to learn other ideas. It is certainly a personal choice when it comes to faith and religion. I argue mostly to point out the inaccuracies. There are some that would like for you to ignore science all together as it makes the bible much easier to accept. If you can make science AND religion work for you, more power to you. I'm not a science buff and to be honest, I don't really put a lot of energy into learning the science. I just can't make religion (the bible mostly) make sense. And nothing that I have read, heard, or felt has even come close to "proof" of a higher power.

Keep learning - you are obviously interested in it if for no other reason so you'll have a leg to stand on when debating religion vs science.
I'm not really into the whole "head in sand" approach. It doesn't bother me to read the ideas of those "for" or "against" my own views. If I find something that, according to my current understanding, doesn't fit, I learn and study until I am satisfied. So far, I haven't been let down.

It makes me cringe when someone stops their investigation into something because someone tells them that "its one of those unknowable mysteries that only God knows." To me I feel it increases my faith to hit the hard questions head on. I understand that's not for everyone though.
Hi all,

Here is an interesting web article to read regarding Noah's Flood:

Noah’s Flood Covered The Whole Earth
First published: Creation 21(3):49
June 1999

Many Christians today think the Flood of Noah’s time was only a local flood, confined to somewhere around Mesopotamia. This idea comes not from Scripture, but from the notion of ‘billions of years’ of Earth history.

But look at the problems this concept involves:

If the Flood was local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it.

To finish reading the article click on this URL: Link

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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