Who knew we would have a test of this law this soon.  If he had been drinking, they need to throw the book at him.

 

I did notice that the biased Timesdaily reported "It’s illegal to carry a gun on school property in Alabama."  Check out the comments under the article if you want clarification and quoted law regarding the fact that this statement is not entirely true.

 

http://www.timesdaily.com/news...48-10604b9f6eda.html

 

I did notice other news agencies reporting the issue with a little more clarity and truth -

 

http://www.waff.com/story/2319...inging-gun-to-school

 

Notice, in the WAFF article, it states "the individual was found to be in violation of the Open Carry Law on school premises" from the statement given by the Superintendent.  Notice it does not mention concealed carry, which is the only exception given for carrying on school property according to Section 13A-11-72 -

 

Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12.
(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.
(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.
(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

 

I can only assume, from the information given so far, that he did not have a CC permit.  If he did, I'm sure it will be revoked rather quickly if he was at all intoxicated.....

Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life here......

Original Post

Here is a little more information on the arrest - turns out he does not have a concealed carry permit (according to WHNT).  From what I can tell, no weapons charges yet, but if he became unruly, I would bet the Feds jump in with the 'gun free zone' laws saying he intended to do harm with the pistol.

 

The parent has been charged with public intoxication, having a pistol without a permit, and criminal trespassing.

 

Florence police say they will present the incident to the ATF for possible federal charges for having the pistol on school grounds.

 

http://whnt.com/2013/08/20/par...ng-lunch-with-child/

Ohhh, and before anyone chastises me for not already doing so, good job to those that identified this idiot and removed him from the school quickly.  I hate that we don't have the funds to have a metal detector at the primary entrance to all these schools during the day (might have prevented him from gaining access to the school in the first place).  As we have said before, no amount of legislation can prevent insane people from doing insane things, but at least there was an SRO on site to address it quickly!

Originally Posted by seeweed:

This is the kind of person for whom  our senators voted to make access to guns easier.


BULLONY - Seeing as how this guy went to a grade school drunk and was illegally concealing a gun, how in the world do you figure he is going to suddenly obey the law and buy a gun legally?  Yeah, I bet he's shaking in his boots at the gun laws. 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

He said he thought the new gun laws made it legal for him to carry concealed into the school. These new laws need to be better clarified to the public. Without rhetoric and political slant.

 

+++

 

By "He" you mean the individual who was arrested for public intoxication?

 

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

In many states it is perfectly legal to have a gun on school grounds. In Tennessee, for example, '...anyone LEGALLY able to possess a gun may have it IN THEIR VEHICLE on school grounds AS LONG AS: it is NOT handled and it is NOT displayed.'  That is the law.

Yep, and i have yet to hear one Alabama school representative explain what security devices they are placing at the entrances to the parking lots to allow them to skirt that requirement for banning concealed carry in a vehicle on school property.  They talk about the doors to the school as if those doors somehow limit entry to the parking lots themselves.

 

And i have yet to see a reporter with the guts to ask the question either......

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

NRA run-a-muck. this dude needs to call those on here for assistance. i'll bet the lot is diving for cover.lol

what about it dire are you down at the jail-house to advise him yet?

 

my advice, don't take your guns to school boys.



He had no ccp and was intoxicated genius.  Trust me, no one with an IQ north of 50 is going to take advice from you.

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

In many states it is perfectly legal to have a gun on school grounds. In Tennessee, for example, '...anyone LEGALLY able to possess a gun may have it IN THEIR VEHICLE on school grounds AS LONG AS: it is NOT handled and it is NOT displayed.'  That is the law.

Yep, and i have yet to hear one Alabama school representative explain what security devices they are placing at the entrances to the parking lots to allow them to skirt that requirement for banning concealed carry in a vehicle on school property.  They talk about the doors to the school as if those doors somehow limit entry to the parking lots themselves.

 

And i have yet to see a reporter with the guts to ask the question either......

One provision is a guard or guards. Do you believe a school resource officer qualifies as such? And another example, if a school locked all doors but one, and required a check-in point prior to entry, would that satisfy the requirement? Just curious about the consensus.

Originally Posted by wright35633:
One provision is a guard or guards. Do you believe a school resource officer qualifies as such? And another example, if a school locked all doors but one, and required a check-in point prior to entry, would that satisfy the requirement? Just curious about the consensus.

I believe, under the new law, the schools can prohibit weapons within the controlled access areas of the buildings if they meet the requirements of having an SRO onsite AND controlled access (secured doors, etc.)  The law does use the word 'and' regarding the two. 

 

However, I do not think this applies to the parking lots.  Access to the parking lots is not controlled in any way at most schools, so they would not fulfill the second part of the law unless they fenced the entire property and had the entrances gated with controlled access to those gates.

 

Wright - how do you read it on parking lots?  The issue I have with the entire thing is the same issue I had with employers banning guns in cars - if you cant have your gun in your car when you pick up your kids, you pretty much cant carry the gun at all 5 days a week.  If they let this stand, the gun control crowd wins by default 5 days a week in most cases.

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by wright35633:
One provision is a guard or guards. Do you believe a school resource officer qualifies as such? And another example, if a school locked all doors but one, and required a check-in point prior to entry, would that satisfy the requirement? Just curious about the consensus.

I believe, under the new law, the schools can prohibit weapons within the controlled access areas of the buildings if they meet the requirements of having an SRO onsite AND controlled access (secured doors, etc.)  The law does use the word 'and' regarding the two. 

 

However, I do not think this applies to the parking lots.  Access to the parking lots is not controlled in any way at most schools, so they would not fulfill the second part of the law unless they fenced the entire property and had the entrances gated with controlled access to those gates.

 

Wright - how do you read it on parking lots?  The issue I have with the entire thing is the same issue I had with employers banning guns in cars - if you cant have your gun in your car when you pick up your kids, you pretty much cant carry the gun at all 5 days a week.  If they let this stand, the gun control crowd wins by default 5 days a week in most cases.

I agree to an extent. That was my point initially. With an SRO and a controlled access point, schools can prevent someone from entering with a firearm. I'm with you on the lot. Maybe a concealed carry provision there instead of leaving it widely up for interpretation.

I have a CCW permit, but I see no reason to carry into a school when I drop off my child (even before the change in the law).  The chances of something happening at the school is so slim that its not worth the hassle of explaining why I have it and risking the school banning me (which is their prerogative and within their rights.) 

 

I do think that specifically trained volunteer employees should be able to carry.  Franklin County had the right idea. 

 

The problem is the fact that school spokesman, as well as some police departments, are announcing that the ban is in effect for the school property, including parking lots and pickup areas.  That doesn't seem to be what the law states.  They talk about how they want to make sure everyone 'understands' the law, but then they interpret the law how they want to, leaving out the parts that don't fit what they want to say.  And no one calls them out on it. 

 

They could have been crystal clear about it like they are in TN.  I expect that there will be additional legislation in the coming years to clarify it like they had to do with the idea of open carry being disorderly conduct in the current legislation.

Originally Posted by Capt James T:

I have a CCW permit, but I see no reason to carry into a school when I drop off my child (even before the change in the law).  The chances of something happening at the school is so slim that its not worth the hassle of explaining why I have it and risking the school banning me (which is their prerogative and within their rights.) 

 

Discounting what happened today and most mass shooting happen in schools with weapons bans.

 

What the hell are we talking about?

 

I do think that specifically trained volunteer employees should be able to carry.  Franklin County had the right idea. 

 

The problem is the fact that school spokesman, as well as some police departments, are announcing that the ban is in effect for the school property, including parking lots and pickup areas.  That doesn't seem to be what the law states.  They talk about how they want to make sure everyone 'understands' the law, but then they interpret the law how they want to, leaving out the parts that don't fit what they want to say.  And no one calls them out on it. 

 

They could have been crystal clear about it like they are in TN.  I expect that there will be additional legislation in the coming years to clarify it like they had to do with the idea of open carry being disorderly conduct in the current legislation.

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 

Discounting what happened today and most mass shooting happen in schools with weapons bans.

 

What the hell are we talking about?

 


I agree, but the chances of a mass shooting are low.  They are tragic and get lots of attention, but compared to other crimes, their frequency is very low.

 

Instead of carrying my own weapon, I would rather focus on arming select, trained individuals on campus (not just SROs).  I think ammo selection is important for that type of defensive engagement, and I would want someone carrying in the school on a regular basis to train a little more on close quarters shooting.

 

It has always been the prerogative of the school to ban someone who is caught on campus carrying concealed, even if they have a CCW permit, even under the old law.  Not worth the hassle it would cause regarding pickup up and dropping off kids, going to school functions, etc, to fight that battle.  Got to chose the battles that I can win, you know.   

 

What 'I' am talking about here is specifically concealed vehicle carry when you pick up your child.  I guess that argument could be taken a step further to being on your person in the parking lot, as long as you don't enter the building (again - got the issue of them banning you if they find out).  But, as my kids school is set up now (SRO and controlled access), it would be illegal for me to carry inside the school.

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 

Discounting what happened today and most mass shooting happen in schools with weapons bans.

 

What the hell are we talking about?

 


I agree, but the chances of a mass shooting are low.  They are tragic and get lots of attention, but compared to other crimes, their frequency is very low.

 

As low as they may be Capt, it's what's driving this thread.

 

Instead of carrying my own weapon, I would rather focus on arming select, trained individuals on campus (not just SROs).  I think ammo selection is important for that type of defensive engagement, and I would want someone carrying in the school on a regular basis to train a little more on close quarters shooting.

 

Behind you 100% there.  When it comes to the safety and protection of our children the only option that should be taken off the table is surrender.

 

And one option that stays on the table is the use of deadly force.

 

So what do you do with an employee who opts out of that option?

 

It has always been the prerogative of the school to ban someone who is caught on campus carrying concealed, even if they have a CCW permit, even under the old law.  Not worth the hassle it would cause regarding pickup up and dropping off kids, going to school functions, etc, to fight that battle.  Got to chose the battles that I can win, you know.

 

Then the school has bitten off more than they can chew.  They by banning guns have proven that does not work.  Children die in large numbers.  And all their posturing cannot protect our children.  It's grandstanding at its best.  If they would just relax at let CWP work, those who would bring havoc to our schools....common sense dictates they would think twice.   

 

What 'I' am talking about here is specifically concealed vehicle carry when you pick up your child.  I guess that argument could be taken a step further to being on your person in the parking lot, as long as you don't enter the building (again - got the issue of them banning you if they find out).  But, as my kids school is set up now (SRO and controlled access), it would be illegal for me to carry inside the school.

 

Why the restrictions?  What threat do you and all the parents of the children at that school represent.  Since when did you become the bad guys?

 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Wait...what? So now you are saying there is a law AGAINST carry a gun inside a school? I thought you said that the news was lying? The superintendent was lying. 

 

When did you change your mind?

I never changed my mind, Jank.  Reread my posts from the beginning - some of what I stated:

 

Check out the comments under the article if you want clarification and quoted law regarding the fact that this statement is not entirely true.....

 

.....Notice, in the WAFF article, it states "the individual was found to be in violation of the Open Carry Law on school premises" from the statement given by the Superintendent.  Notice it does not mention concealed carry, which is the only exception given for carrying on school property according to Section 13A-11-72......

 

.......Yep, and i have yet to hear one Alabama school representative explain what security devices they are placing at the entrances to the parking lots to allow them to skirt that requirement for banning concealed carry in a vehicle on school property.  They talk about the doors to the school as if those doors somehow limit entry to the parking lots themselves.......

 

Those are from my first few posts on the subject.  My point, the entire time, is that the schools are misreporting the facts about the law, specifically about CC on school property.  The law does not state that the entire property is covered, just like UNAs entire campus is not covered by the law.  Only areas that have controlled access of some type AND guards.

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:

 

 

Behind you 100% there.  When it comes to the safety and protection of our children the only option that should be taken off the table is surrender.

 

And one option that stays on the table is the use of deadly force.

 

So what do you do with an employee who opts out of that option?

 

The employee would always have the option.  Teachers are not police officers and should not be required to be.  They should be trained to shelter in place if they don't want to volunteer to be armed. 

 

Then the school has bitten off more than they can chew.  They by banning guns have proven that does not work.  Children die in large numbers.  And all their posturing cannot protect our children.  It's grandstanding at its best.  If they would just relax at let CWP work, those who would bring havoc to our schools....common sense dictates they would think twice.   

 

Regardless of what you and I might think, or what common sense says about concealed carry, I also have to accept the fact that the schools have the right to ban weapons if they meet the requirements of the law in place to do so.  Most are meeting the law to ban them inside.  Whether you or I think its right, its still their prerogative. 

 

Now I can chose where I eat based on that establishments CCW policies.  I can refuse to shop at stores that post the signs.  Schools, however, have a monopoly.  As long as the law is what it is, they have the right to ban me for CCW based on their policies and the law that is in place at the time. 

 

 

Why the restrictions?  What threat do you and all the parents of the children at that school represent.  Since when did you become the bad guys?

 Its not a matter of being the bad guy, its a matter of whether you chose to follow their guidelines.  As I said, the current law allows them to ban guns inside based on certain requirements, which most meet.  As for outside, even as a CCW permit holder, you still have to follow their policies.  It might not be illegal and, like any other business, they can ask you to leave and, if you don't, they can trespass you.  BUT, unlike other businesses, they have that monopoly on education, so if they ban you per their policies (which is within their right based on the current law), then you are SOL and I would expect you would have little recourse. 

 

Whether we like it or not, that's the way it is.  We just have to make sure that we fight to keep them from further impeding the rights that we have by misrepresenting the laws that are in place.

 

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:

 

 

Behind you 100% there.  When it comes to the safety and protection of our children the only option that should be taken off the table is surrender.

 

And one option that stays on the table is the use of deadly force.

 

So what do you do with an employee who opts out of that option?

 

The employee would always have the option.  Teachers are not police officers and should not be required to be.  They should be trained to shelter in place if they don't want to volunteer to be armed.

 

No one's asking them to be LEOs.  I hope folks who get CWPs don't think they're LEOs.  Its all a matter of survival.  Like with 9-11, we have to develop a new mindset to combat this new threat.  The old ways aren't working.

 

Then the school has bitten off more than they can chew.  They by banning guns have proven that does not work.  Children die in large numbers.  And all their posturing cannot protect our children.  It's grandstanding at its best.  If they would just relax at let CWP work, those who would bring havoc to our schools....common sense dictates they would think twice.   

 

Regardless of what you and I might think, or what common sense says about concealed carry, I also have to accept the fact that the schools have the right to ban weapons if they meet the requirements of the law in place to do so.  Most are meeting the law to ban them inside.  Whether you or I think its right, its still their prerogative. 

 

Now I can chose where I eat based on that establishments CCW policies.  I can refuse to shop at stores that post the signs.  Schools, however, have a monopoly.  As long as the law is what it is, they have the right to ban me for CCW based on their policies and the law that is in place at the time. 

 

 

Why the restrictions?  What threat do you and all the parents of the children at that school represent.  Since when did you become the bad guys?

 Its not a matter of being the bad guy, its a matter of whether you chose to follow their guidelines.  As I said, the current law allows them to ban guns inside based on certain requirements, which most meet.  As for outside, even as a CCW permit holder, you still have to follow their policies.  It might not be illegal and, like any other business, they can ask you to leave and, if you don't, they can trespass you.  BUT, unlike other businesses, they have that monopoly on education, so if they ban you per their policies (which is within their right based on the current law), then you are SOL and I would expect you would have little recourse. 

 

Whether we like it or not, that's the way it is.  We just have to make sure that we fight to keep the from further impeding the rights that we have by misrepresenting the laws that are in place.

 

Thanks for your response Capt.  I just wonder what these folks would do against an armed intruder in their homes in defense of their family.  This isn't a used car lot we're talking about.

 

 

Originally Posted by Capt James T:

I have a CCW permit, but I see no reason to carry into a school when I drop off my child (even before the change in the law).  The chances of something happening at the school is so slim that its not worth the hassle of explaining why I have it and risking the school banning me (which is their prerogative and within their rights.) 

 

I do think that specifically trained volunteer employees should be able to carry.  Franklin County had the right idea. 

 

The problem is the fact that school spokesman, as well as some police departments, are announcing that the ban is in effect for the school property, including parking lots and pickup areas.  That doesn't seem to be what the law states.  They talk about how they want to make sure everyone 'understands' the law, but then they interpret the law how they want to, leaving out the parts that don't fit what they want to say.  And no one calls them out on it. 

 

They could have been crystal clear about it like they are in TN.  I expect that there will be additional legislation in the coming years to clarify it like they had to do with the idea of open carry being disorderly conduct in the current legislation.

To be fair, the police departments are advised by the DA, local attorneys, and city attorneys. It isn't just one man's interpretation. Of course, there are always a few. And you are spot on. Be clear. Don't leave wiggle room. I suppose it's a blame shifting practice.

Hoob why don’t you and dire trot on down to the nearest school with your guns and permits.

   Any good police chief worth his salt advised his captains the day after the publishing of this law “boys go out and bust some heads right off the bat so’s to get these gun nuts attention.

    There’s other ways of handling trouble makers. Put’em in jail over night and let de judge sort it out on Tuesday.  They were disorderly and make sure to make that point clear.”

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