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This is bound to come up for discussion, so I will post it here:

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011...hool-football-games/

 

http://www.waaytv.com/news/loc...v2kynHGt0ImmThg.cspx

 

The articles describe the decision of John Mullins, superintendent of Arab City Schools in Arab, to discontinue pregame prayer at Arab High School after receiving a letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

 

Please note that this is a case where an official of civil government obviously considers himself to be vested with civil governmental authority to decide whether or not a public prayer is to be allowed to be uttered over the public address systems of those stadiums in his governmental jurisdiction where official school athletic events are held.

 

How long will it take for some civil governmental officials in Alabama and elsewhere to come to grips with the well-established legal reality that state-controlled religious observances in public, government-supervised venues are UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!??

 

And before any of you theocrats out there get your ecclesiastical panties in too tight a wad, consider this question:

 

Do you truly believe that officials of the civil government should have authority to tell public school children when to pray, to whom to pray, for what to pray, or in whose name to pray?  THAT, dear friends, is what happens when “school prayer,” as practiced in the past, is allowed in public school classrooms or other public school venues.

 

I continue to be astonished at the dissonance, within the conservative ranks, exemplified by those who favor that kind of prayer in the public schools.  The same people who insist that “the government needs to stay out of our private lives” and that the “government which governs best is the government which governs least” are nevertheless willing to allow government to design, prescribe and control the religious exercises of captive audiences of public school children in public (i.e. GOVERNMENT-operated) public school classrooms.

 

Go figure!

I yam what I yam and that's all I yam--but it is enough!

Original Post

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You wouldn't be against it if you didn't see it as your chance to take a swing at conservatives. The entire school can't be made up of conservatives, and this has gone on for 10 years. BTW, there goes the argument that schools don't have prayer. No matter how many examples they're given christians will still argue it doesn't happen. On the comments page there it gets heated with atheists being blamed once again for people who are doing unlawful things getting called on it. Some want the entire group to stand and recite a prayer before a game. Fine, if they insist I can see others demanding equal time so to speak,and pretty soon they won't be able to have games at all. What I don't understand is why they feel they have to pray before the game. It's a sporting event, not a church meeting. Pray or have your "moment of silence" before you leave home.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

You wouldn't be against it if you didn't see it as your chance to take a swing at conservatives. The entire school can't be made up of conservatives, and this has gone on for 10 years. BTW, there goes the argument that schools don't have prayer. No matter how many examples they're given christians will still argue it doesn't happen. On the comments page there it gets heated with atheists being blamed once again for people who are doing unlawful things getting called on it. Some want the entire group to stand and recite a prayer before a game. Fine, if they insist I can see others demanding equal time so to speak,and pretty soon they won't be able to have games at all. What I don't understand is why they feel they have to pray before the game. It's a sporting event, not a church meeting. Pray or have your "moment of silence" before you leave home.

*****

 

I am, and long have been, against government-directed religious observances, irrespective of whether they are promoted by conservatives, liberals, Rosicrucians, animists, Druids or any other faction, cult, or  coven whatsoever. The reason I referred to conservatives is because approximately 99.999% of the blithering that I hear and read about "bringing prayer back to the schools" or "taking back this country for God" or other such unconstitutional, ignorantly advanced objectives originates within the conservative sector.

I wish our local School board would get a letter from the FFRF.  At the high school my nephew goes to, (Wilson) they do it all the time. I have also gone to a game at Brooks and it was the same thing. The prayer was said in Jesus name Amen.

 

Unconstitutional.

 

For the kids that want to pray before a game there is nothing stopping them. They can pray to the deity of their choice. For it to be led over the loud speaker and directed at one particular deity is just wrong.

 

Great job Arab Principal!!!!

Hi all,

 

Gee, based upon your logic -- the schools not only should, but MUST remove all water fountains from school property.  Why?  Because having water fountains on school property means that MY CHILDREN will have to drink water because the other kids are drinking water.

 

And, also, remove all urinals -- for, if a girl should accidentally wander into the wrong toilet she may get an inferiority complex because she cannot pee in the urinal.

 

After all, we MUST be fair to ALL the students.  Therefore, drinking fountains and urinals on school property are UNCONSTITUTIONAL! 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

Gee, based upon your logic -- the schools not only should, but MUST remove all water fountains from school property.  Why?  Because having water fountains on school property means that MY CHILDREN will have to drink water because the other kids are drinking water.

 

And, also, remove all urinals -- for, if a girl should accidentally wander into the wrong toilet she may get an inferiority complex because she cannot pee in the urinal.

 

After all, we MUST be fair to ALL the students.  Therefore, drinking fountains and urinals on school property are UNCONSTITUTIONAL! 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

--

This is the most intensely nitwitted thing I've read in a while. For shame.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

Gee, based upon your logic -- the schools not only should, but MUST remove all water fountains from school property.  Why?  Because having water fountains on school property means that MY CHILDREN will have to drink water because the other kids are drinking water.

 

And, also, remove all urinals -- for, if a girl should accidentally wander into the wrong toilet she may get an inferiority complex because she cannot pee in the urinal.

 

After all, we MUST be fair to ALL the students.  Therefore, drinking fountains and urinals on school property are UNCONSTITUTIONAL! 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

--

This is the most intensely nitwitted thing I've read in a while. For shame.

 

**********************

Amen, Winston! Bill has sunk to a new level of irrelevance and polemic incompetence. His last commentary on this topic is appropriately disposed of in either a urinal or a toilet, being on a par with the materials that normally find their way to these conveniences.

Bill Gray, you and other theocratically-inclined persons tend to avoid the argument I made above, specifically:

 

<<<<<"I continue to be astonished at the dissonance, within the conservative ranks, exemplified by those who favor that kind of prayer in the public schools.  The same people who insist that “the government needs to stay out of our private lives” and that the “government which governs best is the government which governs least” are nevertheless willing to allow government to design, prescribe and control the religious exercises of captive audiences of public school children in public (i.e. GOVERNMENT-operated) public school classrooms.>>>>>>>

 

Why don't you address this matter straight on?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

And, also, remove all urinals -- for, if a girl should accidentally wander into the wrong toilet she may get an inferiority complex because she cannot pee in the urinal.

Bill

_____________________

Good grief!!! What does where you pee have to do with prayer????

I peed in a urinal once. Had to cause the ladies bathroom was out of order. My husband guarded the door for me. Didn't hurt my complex at all, but made my bladder feel a lot better. When you gotta go, you go wherever.

This is the most intensely nitwitted thing I've read in a while. For shame.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That was AR's post. Winston is all for the prayer.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

<<<<<"I continue to be astonished at the dissonance, within the conservative ranks, exemplified by those who favor that kind of prayer in the public schools.  The same people who insist that “the government needs to stay out of our private lives” and that the “government which governs best is the government which governs least” are nevertheless willing to allow government to design, prescribe and control the religious exercises of captive audiences of public school children in public (i.e. GOVERNMENT-operated) public school classrooms.>>>>>>>

 

Why don't you address this matter straight on?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What do you want addressed? As I posted, this couldn't have happened unless the majority went along with it, so why would you even try to claim that all the people attending the games were "right wing" religious nuts so to speak? Face it, there are as many religious nuts on the left as there are on the right.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

This is the most intensely nitwitted thing I've read in a while. For shame.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That was AR's post. Winston is all for the prayer.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

<<<<<"I continue to be astonished at the dissonance, within the conservative ranks, exemplified by those who favor that kind of prayer in the public schools.  The same people who insist that “the government needs to stay out of our private lives” and that the “government which governs best is the government which governs least” are nevertheless willing to allow government to design, prescribe and control the religious exercises of captive audiences of public school children in public (i.e. GOVERNMENT-operated) public school classrooms.>>>>>>>

 

Why don't you address this matter straight on?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What do you want addressed? As I posted, this couldn't have happened unless the majority went along with it, so why would you even try to claim that all the people attending the games were "right wing" religious nuts so to speak? Face it, there are as many religious nuts on the left as there are on the right.

*****

I never claimed that all the people attending the games were conservartives.  If you disagree, then please show me where I did that.

 

You theocrats just never seem to get it.  It is is irrelevant, as a constitutional matter, whether the majority wants it or not.  The Constitution, and most especially the First Amendment, protects the rights of minorities, and it prohibits the imposition of majority religious views, doctrines and practices upon minorities by instrumentalities of civil government! Yes, are were likely some "liberals" at the football games in Decatur and elsewhere in Alabama, and yes, they "went along with it" in the sense that they did not object to the particular prayers being said, but that does no mean that they all endorsed the practice of praying government-sanctioned sectarian prayers in a public venue.  As a practical matter, a "liberal", atheist, or anyone else posing objection to such a practice bears the very substantial risk that he and his family will become the objects of community vilification and even violence.  Thus, as a practical matter, it is rare for "liberals"  within a community to protest such unconstitutional practices.

 

I place "liberal" in quotes because I do not regard the insistence of citizens that the constitution be respected as a liberal position.  If anything, it is conservative in the sense that it stands in defense of the constitution, something that good, patriotic Americans should always do.

 

Finally, I do not characterize any of those attending the games as right wing religious nuts.  I simply disagree with those among the attendees and anyone else  who supports the notion that civil government has the right to direct religious activities in the public schools.   I stand with the U.S. Supreme Court in that matter.  You apparently do not

I continue to be astonished at the dissonance, within the conservative ranks, exemplified by those who favor that kind of prayer in the public schools.  The same people who insist that “the government needs to stay out of our private lives” and that the “government which governs best is the government which governs least” are nevertheless willing to allow government to design, prescribe and control the religious exercises of captive audiences of public school children in public (i.e. GOVERNMENT-operated) public school classrooms.

 

Go figure!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Finally, I do not characterize any of those attending the games as right wing religious nuts.  I simply disagree with those among the attendees and anyone else  who supports the notion that civil government has the right to direct religious activities in the public schools.   I stand with the U.S. Supreme Court in that matter.  You apparently do not

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

You kinda contradicted yourself bettern-nun. Now how do you figure I don't "stand" with the court? You're pulling a bill, trying to slant it to your way of thinking without letting the truth get in the way.

****

 

No contradiction from me, Bestworking. If you see one, then kindly point it out.Vague and unexplicated accusations do not compute with me.  Where is the "contradiction"??

 

And how does one "kinda" contradict oneself?  Isn't "kinda contradicted" sort of like "kind of pregnant"?

Read your own posts bettern-nun. What's "vague" about posting your own words back to you? You absolutely blame the conservatives, then you want to crawfish when that's pointed out to you. DA, it's not about the majority, it's about bettern-nun wanting to make it seem that the majority here is the religious right. Bettern-nun,  "kinda contradicted yourself" is an expression but I'll clear it up-you contradicted yourself.

If Congress passed legislation mandating all high schools to pray before football games, that would be unconstitutional.

 

If a community chooses to express their religious beliefs publicly, it's not unconstitutional.

 

I've been to high school games where they allow a local pastor or chaplain a few moments to say a brief prayer. No one is forced to pray, no one is condemned for not praying. It simply happens and it's over.

 

I believe very strongly in freedom of expression. Silencing the majority simply because a handful of people disagree is wrong.

 

It doesn't matter if it was a Muslim prayer, Jewish prayer, Hindu prayer, Wiccan prayer, or whatever. Preventing freedom of expression simply because one or two people may be uncomfortable for a moment is wrong.

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