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quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Braylan,

Of course they are the same god. They are the god of Abraham.

I'm afraid your post does nothing to support the implication of this thread's title.

DF


I can't argue with your ignorance pertaining to the God of the Israelites. Please study why God lead his people out of Egypt (Exodus). Then get back to me!

One more thing, I understand that you see it as the God of Abraham, however you must understand a couple of things. Issac was the Jewish born decendant that kept the true covenant with God, Ishmael was the other son that went his way and possibly taught originally the same Religion of Abraham but somehow down the line it got misinterpreted and mis-aligned from the true God and therefore with the adoption of all the other "gods with a little g" there is now called something "Muslim faith of Islam" which in fact is very similar but but very much more different in theology!

Study the 2 for yourself and you will see the difference.

Good day!
Braylan, you are more deranged than usual. The Islamic view of the universal creator God as revealed through Abraham is precisely the same as the Hebrew Bible's. Who are the prophets of Islam before Mohammed? They are Ibrahem, Noah, and Musa and Isa, that is to say Abraham, Noah, Moses, and Jesus. And let's not forget the Virgin birth of Isa by Miryan, either in the Koran or the place of Yaya (John the Baptist).

What do you think the word Allah means? The exact same thing as the Hebrew word El and Yah.

Salaam = Shalom. Mohammed found the people of the Hejaz a mixture of native pagan worship, centered in idols and the black rock in the Kaaba, and also Mizrahi Jewish and Christian sects. He purged the Kaaba of the idols and preached monotheism and a reform of Hejazi social norms, such as burying unwanted daughters alive. One hundred years later the troops led by his successors as leaders of the new faith were in Europe and had conquered the Christian lands of the Middle East, Egypt and even making progress in France.

Do you get stuff by some sort of revelation or do you just make up stuff as you go along? Can you read other than Bible tracts and the Left Behind series? Where did you study history or did you have to draw a pirate on the back of a matchbook to get your certification?
Hi Neal,

This excerpt from an Iranian web site tells us about Allah:

From the web site: Link

What is the meaning of Allah?

Many have been discussing this issue, so if I may inform you of what I know about the subject. Shall this be of help to the seekers of the truth.

Allah was originally a large size black rock in Ka'abah, Mecca. Ka'abah was originally a cubical house of totem worship for worshiping totems (Bot). Many tribes in Arabia were respecting and worshiping these totems. Mohammed's uncle was originally the guardian of this house of Rocks! According to the scriptures, when Islam came to power, the house of the holy and the promised land, also the direction which the Muslim were praying to, was Jerusalem.

Mohammed had a political deal going on with Quraish and other local Arab tribe leaders who were financially supporting him; therefore, he transferred the main Islamic Attraction, house of the holy and the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca and of course Ka'abah. He did not just get up one day and announced it like that! He went in and out of the famous cave on top of the mountain and of course Allah and Angel Gabriel came to him in a vision, and then he released a verse and only then he changed the prayer direction from Jerusalem to Mecca.

The basic reason behind this decision was economical. Rich tribal lords of Arabia promised to financially and militaristically back Mohammed up and in return Mohammed returned the favor by making Mecca a tourist attraction and the center for Islam, so all the money from Haj (pilgrimage), and other holy donations would flow and wave towards Mecca.

In addition, later on Mohammed had always sent a fixed share of the material and wealth stolen (loots of the battles) from the defeated tribes, civilizations and nations, to these tribal lords of Quraish and others who supported him. A fixed amount (a share) from "Qanimat" (Qanima) was always going directly to these tribal lords.

In Ka'abah there was Allah the largest Rock in black color, which was the main God. As some scholars written, he was named after the Moon God and a reflection of the Moon. Then there were four other Rocks placed around Allah in four corners of Ka'abah representing the lower Gods such as iLat, Lat, Uzza and Manat which were Allah's Children (some mentioned Daughters) and they were siblings.

Some scholars argue that Allah The Moon God had four daughters, yet some argue that the four corner rocks of Ka'abah were three daughters/Siblings and one mother "iLat" (The Sun Goddess). However they all agree that Allah was placed in the center of Ka'abah and the four minor God/Goddesses were posted on four-corners of Ka'abah around him.


The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was never a large black rock. The God of the Christian Bible was never a large black rock.

No, God has always existed. That is why He is God. He is omniscient -- all knowing; He is omnipotent -- all powerful; He is omnipresent -- in all places.

Satan, the Rock of Islam, nor any other religious deity or leader can make this claim.

I am surprised you never learned this in your Episcopalian studies which led to your certification. Keep denigrating God and His Bible -- and your certifications will not do you much good when you stand before Jesus Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
Once again Bill the Holy has topped himself with his credulous nature. This is most certainly not an Iranian site, rather a dissident anti-Islamic, pro-West, pan-Persian site. One notes that there is no country suffix in the address, and that is for a reason: it comes from the USA. This would never be tolerated for one second in Iran.

We note the huge image on the masthead of Zoroaster. We note cartoons mocking the Shia, the Arabs, the mullahs and the idea of an Islamic Iran within the website. We even note a cartoon of Mohammed with an erection holding Ayesha's hand (his second young bride). Do you honestly think this is an Iranian site after you spend 5 minutes browsing through its contents?

You probably do, since you think the world is 6000 years old and a talking snake made us all into sinners.

You are an embarrassment (even to other crazed religious doomsday cultists, and that is quite an accomplishment given all the pink wigged women, snake handlers and faith healers out there).

Do you find these sites on your own, this persianpoliticalclub and Berean Call on your own, or is there an index that you use, much like my self-made index of "crazy weird conspiracy and religious outrages" sites?

Are you collecting these posts for background on a massive novel, or are you really that stupid on your own?

Do you think this came from an Iranian site?

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Man, Bill, you are one egotistical sorry butt old liar, aren't you?

Admit you lied when you said that was from an Iranian site when it clearly is not.

You lie so much I would have to go out at 5 a.m. and face east to see the sun rise myself if you told me it always rose in the east.

Your ego is surpassed by the tiresome nature of your cult's sermons, offered to all for no good reason and only serving to defame the Christian religion as a cult of lunatics.

You tout lunatics and frauds in the name of God when you are part of the problem that faces the world: you crave to control peoples' lives for no reason save for the power, whether you claim it is for salvation from the terrors in the night or those across the water or else to thwart those acting as imps of Satan.

Can you even actually read? I mean read critically, analyzing what is before you, like a child does not.

Have a turd sandwich with your crow, old man.
quote:
Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
Man, Bill, you are one egotistical sorry butt old liar, aren't you?

Admit you lied when you said that was from an Iranian site when it clearly is not.

You lie so much I would have to go out at 5 a.m. and face east to see the sun rise myself if you told me it always rose in the east.

Your ego is surpassed by the tiresome nature of your cult's sermons, offered to all for no good reason and only serving to defame the Christian religion as a cult of lunatics.

You tout lunatics and frauds in the name of God when you are part of the problem that faces the world: you crave to control peoples' lives for no reason save for the power, whether you claim it is for salvation from the terrors in the night or those across the water or else to thwart those acting as imps of Satan.

Can you even actually read? I mean read critically, analyzing what is before you, like a child does not.

Have a turd sandwich with your crow, old man.

Hi Neal,

And, you, my Friend, are one sick, hatred filled person. I have never in my life met a person who demands to be called a Chrisitian -- yet, hates the Bible and all Christians like you.

Neal, you really need help; help that only God can give -- for you are too full of hatred for any one man.

My Friend, hatred is like a cancer; it eats you up from the inside -- and right now, I would guess that you have a 100 pound hate tumor within you.

I sincerely pray that God will help you. However, you have to seek His help for this to happen -- and the way you hate everything Christian; I doubt this will happen. So sad.

By the way, the web site which has you in such a hate-filled tizzy is named "Iran Politics Club." Now, if I had a web site called the Alabama Horse Web Site; you would almost be able to guess it was from Alabama -- or it was about Alabama horses.

So, I would presume that a site named "Iran Politics Club" is from Iran or is about Iran and Iranian Politics. Would you say that is a good guess? Thank you.

Neal, you really need to get out of the library and get a life.

And, one last minute thought: you also have zero class, my Friend.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I really hate to bring logic or reason or truth to a religious discussion but I just completed a course in world religion. The God of the Jews, the Christians, and Islam is are in fact all one in the same. Just as Jesus brought a new message to the Jews, Mohamed was a prophet with a newer message for the believers. I liken it to software updates. This would make Islam the latest word of god and make previous versions of gods word out of date if not obsolete.
Of course a truly enlightened and educated person would reject all of these as mythology.
quote:
Originally posted by Netracer41:
I really hate to bring logic or reason or truth to a religious discussion but I just completed a course in world religion. The God of the Jews, the Christians, and Islam is are in fact all one in the same. Just as Jesus brought a new message to the Jews, Mohamed was a prophet with a newer message for the believers. I liken it to software updates. This would make Islam the latest word of god and make previous versions of gods word out of date if not obsolete.
Of course a truly enlightened and educated person would reject all of these as mythology.

Hi Net,

You may have completed a course in World Religions; but, you learned not much about God and Allah. That is similar to saying that Mother Teresa and Charles Manson are the same. T'aint so, my Friend.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
*shaking my head*

He's stupider than I thought. And that's saying something.

DF


It's denial and arrogance. Denial is rampant in the fundamentalist community. They all need the Bills of the world to reassure them that their biblically derived superiority is secure enough to trump scientific fact. Bill's not stupid, neither was Brother Jim Jones or Brother Oral Roberts, only arrogant enough to set himself up as the Word of God.

Most fundamentalists are ignorant hypocrites, who think that "Praising the Lord!!!!" will get their sorry souls into heaven; that they can actually get to heaven because the God they created in their own image is just as ignorant as they are and can be fooled. But that is just my take.

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