quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
DO WE NEED ANY FURTHER PROOF?
Nah, you Fundies don't bother yourselves with trivial things such as 'proof'....of ANYTHING.
quote:Do you need the complete details of the design of your car, all the minute engineering secrets -- before you will get in your car and drive to work? Or, do you just rely upon the manufacturer's User's Manual for the useful facts you need, such as type of gas, tire air pressure, etc., which allow you to drive safely?
If you are taking a trip -- do you demand all the minute engineering details about the plane before you will fly -- or do you fly on faith?
God did not need to tell us all the details about how He created the heavens and the earth. All He needed to do was to give us His plan for our salvation and a guideline for Christian living. This, the Bible does very well.
As I need more information; He has always revealed to me what I needed to know -- when I needed the information. And, most often He has done this through His Written Word, the Bible.
Something to consider; if you have trouble understanding and gaining spiritual understanding and revelations from the Bible -- maybe the fault is in you. It could be that your spiritual eyes are blind and like the blind man trying to understand a sunset; you cannot comprehend what people are telling you about the sunset; for you have never seen one before.
And, having never possessed spiritual discernment; you cannot understand the spiritual aspects of the Bible and Christianity.
A poor analogy Bill. I may not need to know all the minute details that go into my car, plane or computer but if I wanted to I could actually know them and that's a fact. It's a fact that every single last detail is known and well documented. It's a fact that the materials are designed and created. It's a fact that here are various comprehensive schematics, books and other documents that can explain every single detail that I could ever want to know. No such knowledge is remotely available by way of your god. There are no facts when it comes to your god. There are no proofs. Just the fanciful guesses and assertions of ancient people in regards to how things might be.
I suspect that my "spiritual eye" as you say, is not blind. But rather it's bored to pieces by the transparent nonsense and the many convolutions that the faithful have to endure to try to defend their beliefs in something that they want so desperately to believe, but have no proof of. Trust me, I'm much more discerning than you are. It takes discernment to recognize and distinguish fact from fiction. I'm not the one arguing for the magical father in the sky.
Plus I also think it's abundantly arrogant for a believer to pretend to know and confidently espouse the reasons behind the "mysterious ways" and intentions of GOD. Besides, any average-strength god would not need any defenders or interpreters because there could be no doubters as to it's existence.
Australopithecus,
I'm enjoying your posts here. You've raised the average IQ of this entire forum quite a bit. Thanks.
I'm enjoying your posts here. You've raised the average IQ of this entire forum quite a bit. Thanks.
Aw shucks Mr. Gene, you're making my IQ blush!
you can call me Billy Joe Bob Gene, and you're very welcome.
quote:Originally posted by A. Robustus:
No such knowledge is remotely available by way of your god. There are no facts when it comes to your god. There are no proofs. Just the fanciful guesses and assertions of ancient people in regards to how things might be.
Hi Robust,
Actually, there is amazing PROOF of God and the validity of the Bible -- Prophecy.
Over 1800 prophecies -- and virtually all of them fulfilled -- is absolute proof.
You seem to be a fairly intelligent person. You tell us the odds of 1800 prophecies and every one being fulfilled. What kind of number does this represent? Do the math. What is 1 to the 1800 power?
That, my Friend, is greater proof than all your science books stacked on top of one another.
Of course, you will poo poo this -- for that is the only answer an atheist has when faced with a question he/she cannot answer. It is either forced ridicule, or "stupid" or "ignorant" and a few other chosen atheist answers.
And, all our Friend "Deep Billy Bob" can do is to parrot his bible from Darwin/Dawkins/Hitchens and their canned insults.
The sad thing is that our atheist Friends are so predictable. If they did not have their DDH bible -- they would be speechless.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Actually, there is amazing PROOF of God and the validity of the Bible -- Prophecy.
Over 1800 prophecies -- and virtually all of them fulfilled -- is absolute proof.
You seem to be a fairly intelligent person. You tell us the odds of 1800 prophecies and every one being fulfilled. What kind of number does this represent? Do the math. What is 1 to the 1800 power?
That, my Friend, is greater proof than all your science books stacked on top of one another.
Of course, you will poo poo this -- for that is the only answer an atheist has when faced with a question he/she cannot answer. It is either forced ridicule, or "stupid" or "ignorant" and a few other chosen atheist answers.
And, all our Friend "Deep Billy Bob" can do is to parrot his bible from Darwin/Dawkins/Hitchens and their canned insults.
You are a prophet Bill. You have correctly predicted that I would "poo poo" your proof of God and prophesy claim. But it's not because it's a question I can't answer but because it's another easy one to dispel. And I'll do it without insults or "DDH".
First off, unless you can actually PROVE that ~1800 biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, it is just an empty grandiose statement.
Similar to: Over 1800 unicorns -- virtually all of them pink -- power my lawnmower.
Second, even if I were to agree with the claim (I don't and have proof) that there are 1800+ biblical prophesies, of which virtually all of them have been fulfilled... "virtually" just doesn't cut it when considering the source is the all-knowing creator of everything. A claim of high accuracy is not proof of anything. Even a 100% accuracy of biblical prophesy is not PROOF of the actual existence of yours or any gods or the validity of the rest of the text in the Bible. It would just be proof of the impressive predictive statements in a book.
If I could tell you the odds against 1800 pink unicorns powering my lawnmower, it wouldn't make the statement of 1800 pink unicorns powering my lawnmower any more true.
You should at least demand an inerrantly PERFECT batting average of unfailing prophecy and world-wide agreement that all Bible prophesies have come true in order to even begin to accept the extraordinary claims in the Bible. One can simply not expect less from the author of a book who also happens to be perfect, has the power to create the universe and determine the outcomes of sporting events and Grammy awards. Don't hold your god to such low standards. Raise the bar of expectations and evidence for your god. Such a powerful god should be easy for you to prove. It should be a breeze for Him to produce indisputable evidence. It's God for Christ's sake. He has the power to intelligently design everything that has ever existed, yet somehow can't prove it to anyone.
Bill, if you are honest with yourself you'll realize none of what you've stated in the previous quote above (even if true!) is "amazing" or "absolute proof" of "of God and the validity of the Bible" as you claim.
Simply stated, there are more proofs in a single, outdate fifth-grade science or math book than in the entire 1189 chapters of the Bible.
p.s. BTW, here's one simple to understand and incorrect Bible foretelling and it's not from some two-bit disciple or prophet, but from the LORD God himself. You don't even have to look deep to find it either. It's right inside the front cover, in Genesis: God tells Adam that he will die on the day that he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, yet Adam eats from the tree and lives for another 930 years. (Genesis 2:17 & 5:5) Based on this alone, your god is either a liar; doesn't know the future; doesn't control life or death; doesn't know what He's talking about; is bluffing; made a mistake and changed His mind (a perfect being should have no reason to repent); is not perfect; or all of the above.
quote:Originally posted by A. Robustus:
First off, unless you can actually PROVE that ~1800 biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, it is just an empty grandiose statement.
Similar to: Over 1800 unicorns -- virtually all of them pink -- power my lawnmower.
Where can i get one of these?
My daughter would love it.
quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
you can call me Billy Joe Bob Gene, and you're very welcome.
May I simply call you BG?
quote:If I could tell you the odds against 1800 pink unicorns powering my lawnmower, it wouldn't make the statement of 1800 pink unicorns powering my lawnmower any more true.
But I would certainly want to come witness this lawnmower ans see this for myself.
Checkmate atheist!
They'd have to be awfully small unicorns. And why don't they just eat the grass?
I want to see them, too.
BG
I want to see them, too.
BG
1800 prophecies over thousands of years? and virtually all fulfilled? first, does virtually mean most were?
second, david koresh (of waco fame) had almost 200 prophecies of which 100% were fulfilled. what are the odds of that bill and what does it prove?
second, david koresh (of waco fame) had almost 200 prophecies of which 100% were fulfilled. what are the odds of that bill and what does it prove?
quote:Originally posted by tcf531:
1800 prophecies over thousands of years? and virtually all fulfilled? first, does virtually mean most were? second, david koresh (of waco fame) had almost 200 prophecies of which 100% were fulfilled. what are the odds of that bill and what does it prove?
Hi TCF,
So, you are a David Koresh follower. Congratulations!
But, you are a wee bit late. He is already in his eternal domain -- and his exit was only a warm-up for it. You better hurry if you want to catch up to him.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Tell us more about David Koresh... Wow! 100% prophesy fulfillment! That's exciting!
WB
WB
quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Tell us more about David Koresh... Wow! 100% prophesy fulfillment! That's exciting!WB
Hi Deep,
You will have to ask TCF. He seems to be the David Koresh follower.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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I'm glad you find my utterances deep, Brother Bill Gray. You can call me Billy Joe Bob Gene.
TR
TR
Out of curiosity, how many people here have taken college level biology or genetics courses recently?
Like, I believe in God unequivocally, but evolution is basically like algebra, it can be proven. Faith and science can be reconciled, and many people would probably be surprised that scientists are a religious bunch.
Like, I believe in God unequivocally, but evolution is basically like algebra, it can be proven. Faith and science can be reconciled, and many people would probably be surprised that scientists are a religious bunch.
quote:. Faith and science can be reconciled,
that is the most intelligent thing I've read in a while.
(and yes, to both biology, and genetics)
quote:Originally posted by A. Robustus:
p.s. BTW, here's one simple to understand and incorrect Bible foretelling and it's not from some two-bit disciple or prophet, but from the LORD God himself. You don't even have to look deep to find it either. It's right inside the front cover, in Genesis: God tells Adam that he will die on the day that he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, yet Adam eats from the tree and lives for another 930 years. (Genesis 2:17 & 5:5)
I'm not saying that I believe what the Bible says but when God told Adam that he would die on the day he ate from the tree of knowledge, God was speaking of a spiritial death.
quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
I'm glad you find my utterances deep, Brother Bill Gray. You can call me Billy Joe Bob Gene.
TR
Hi my Friend,
After three years of calling you Deep -- it is difficult to change in mid-river -- regardless of how many initials you use. Besides that name is just too long. So, if you don't mind, so that I do not get confused, I think I will stay with Deep.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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