Skip to main content

Fundies, like Mr. Bill, claim to believe in an Earth (and Universe) that is 6000 years old.

We all know that is nonsense. Even you religious "moderates" out there know it's nonsense.

However, you "moderates" simply say "well, that's his belief, he can enjoy it if he wants". All the while legions of fundies like him try to influence boards of education to entertain their insane beliefs. They elect presidents and senators.

No, moderates, it's not enough that you understand the real world. Your tolerance of your fellow Christians (and Muslims and Jews) who take the Fundy stance is tacit approval of their beliefs.

The fundies have thrown down the gauntlet in Alabama (and Texas, and elsewhere). You are either with them or against them.

Where do you stand? And if you're against them, why don't you say so? Or do you?


DF
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Hi Deep,

Funny, when I was opening the TD Forums I noticed this title in the right panel -- and my immediate response was: "Hello, Deep. Welcome back!"

Somehow, I knew this had to be a discussion begun by our long lost Resident Atheist.

Do I believe the earth is exactly 6000 years old? No. But, I will say it is in the thousands of years -- definitely NOT in the millions or billions of years that you Darwinian Evolutionist need to make your groundless theory work.

Creationists can live within the thousands of years range --which is more logical. Evolutionists drop dead if they cannot have a universe which is billions of years old.

Therefore, you will throw all common sense out the window and declare what you know is not true.

But, that is okay. This gives us more fodder for discussion -- and allows us to share the true Biblical account of Creation. Thank you!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c
quote:
Therefore, you will throw all common sense out the window and declare what you know is not true.



Excellent.

You give believers two choices: Either abandon all reason and accept the "fact" that earth is younger than the invention of beer and agriculture or burn in hell for recognizing the positively overwhelming mountain rage of evidence that the earth and all creation is much much older than we humans are capable of realizing.

It is exactly your kind willful abandonment of reason and insistence on blind faith that is killing religion for the young, science-literate kids in this country, Mr. Gray.

Keep up the good works. I'm sure your God will give you a big "atta boy" for helping the spread of disbelief.

Question: Do you ever wonder why God planted all this evidence to make it appear that the world is much older than you say?
quote:
Originally posted by Rancid Apple:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Creationists can live within the thousands of years range -- which is more logical. Evolutionists drop dead if they cannot have a universe which is billions of years old. Therefore, you will throw all common sense out the window and declare what you know is not true.

Excellent. You give believers two choices: Either abandon all reason and accept the "fact" that earth is younger than the invention of beer and agriculture or burn in hell for recognizing the positively overwhelming mountain rage of evidence that the earth and all creation is much much older than we humans are capable of realizing. It is exactly your kind willful abandonment of reason and insistence on blind faith that is killing religion for the young, science-literate kids in this country, Mr. Gray. Keep up the good works. I'm sure your God will give you a big "atta boy" for helping the spread of disbelief. Question: Do you ever wonder why God planted all this evidence to make it appear that the world is much older than you say?

Hi Rancid,

Once again, like most non-believers, you have taken one small comment, one small thought -- and built your theology around it. No mature Christian believer will tell you that your salvation is based upon what you believe about Creation and Evolution. We are saved -- by the grace of God -- through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING ELSE (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, what one believes about the Creation, about eschatology, about baptism, etc., does not affect his/her salvation.

However, it does affect your peace of mind, your sense of eternal security. Faith is built upon a bedrock. That bedrock is the Rock of Christianity, the Rock of our salvation, Jesus Christ. The foundation of the Bible is based upon Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." If that is false -- then, how can one believe anything else written in the rest of the Bible? And, of course, this is why atheists and secularist fight so hard to disprove the Genesis account of the Creation. Discredit that -- and you will discredit all belief in God. But, sorry, they have already lost that war.

The foundation of our Christian faith is based upon John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word was, and is, God -- the Word is Jesus Christ. And, all who believe and receive (John 1:12) Him as Lord and Savior are Christ Followers, Christian believers. We have eternal security in Him. We have peace in Him.

When Jesus Christ tells us, in Mark 10:6, "But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female'* -- we have to realize what He is telling us. He is telling us that "from the beginning of the creation" God made Adam and Eve. I do not know of any scientist who will openly declare that Adam and Eve were created "billions" of years ago. No, they were created "thousands" of years ago. Therefore, the Creation was "thousands" of years ago -- not "billions" of years ago.

This is what the Word of God, the Bible, tells us -- and we know that the Bible was authored by God, for we are told in 2 Timothy 3:16 that ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God. Since God authored the Bible -- and since God is omniscient and omnipotent, He does not make mistakes (no "Oops!" in His vocabulary) -- the Bible is inerrant, the Bible is without error in its moral and spiritual teaching and in its record of historical facts.

And, to add to the validity of the Bible -- it contains thousands of prophecies. Except for the return of Jesus Christ -- ALL of those prophecies have been fulfilled. And, we have both religious and secular verification of most fulfillment's. Yes, the Bible is the Written Word of God -- and it tells us that His act of Creation occurred thousands of years ago.

One does not have to believe that to be a saved Christian. But, one is throwing cold water on the very source of his/her eternal security -- which seems rather foolish to me.

Rancid, I invite you to test Jesus Christ and see if He is not real. Try sincerely asking Him to come in and be your Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20) -- and see the difference it will make in your life. I will be happy to assist you in this in any and all possible ways.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROS_BIB-2_InBeginning
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
We do say if we agree or if we disagree with extremists. I think you were too ticked off to hear us...well, that, or you likely disagreed with us as well. Razzer


My dear Joy,

If a moderate Christian is inclined to believe that she is born with Original Sin (an ancient woman eating a fruit), and that the human sacrifice of a self-professed god/man 2000 years ago gives her the ability to erase that sin... hasn't that person agreed to a preposterous proposition?

Is the 6000 year old Earth an order of magnitude more difficult to believe?


DF
You think it a preposterous proposition to believe God exists. I think it a preposterous proposition to think everything you see around you happened totally by chance. What I believe requires less faith.

I don't fear anything Science has to offer, not threatened by it in the least, welcome the knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
You think it a preposterous proposition to believe God exists. I think it a preposterous proposition to think everything you see around you happened totally by chance.



THAT'S what gets me. Sure, maybe it could have all started because of some deity's grand plan.

But to believe that would require me to believe in 'magic'. I can't bring myself to do that.

To a logical person like me, for 'magic' to work and be believeable, it requires 'faith' and some ignorance to work.
I do understand the very basics of how physical things happen. Yes! There IS order in chaos! It has been proven. All of this could have started by chance-but it started for an actual, physical reason. It continues to evolve and function the same way it started.
Just because something doesn't make sense to somebody doesn't mean it doesn't make sense at all. Just means that 'somebody' can't see the sense it's making yet.

The earth is way older than the bible says it is. We've all seen proof of that. (Well...Those of us who've been fortunate enough to have been able to ever get out of the county, anyway..).

We've seen Fossil impressions of Trilobites..
We've seen dinosaur bones...
We've seen Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man's bones...
We've seen evidence of not a flood, but an ice age...

They're real, they happened. They exist.

Ya can't deny 'em.

....UNLESS..... Ya/believe/in/'magic.'

Needless to say... as much as the belief in "God" sounds all nice and neat, I gotta say that in light of the fact that there's no evidence to prove his existence other than an apparent fable and a whole localized bunch of religious fanatics following it-I'd hafta say I'm against the Fundies.

To me, The concept of a central deity that rules all that exists is outdated, unscientific, and completely backwards. Religion is a crutch for weak minded people who can't think for themselves.
Last edited by Road Puppy
To believe everything around you is here by chance would require you to believe in magic. Smiler

I don't deny anything that is irrefutable from Science.

God drew me to him & I accepted Christ as Savior, later as Lord of my life. Since that time, my faith has grown through the evidence given me through a lifetime with him, his work in my life & experiences that cannot be explained away. That is evidence for me, not for you. The first step was faith, to believe. You don't. I do. That separates us & our paths.

Science, however, belongs to both of us. Smiler Nuts turn it into a competition. It's not.

=================================================================
Last edited by _Joy_
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
To believe everything around you is here by chance would require you to believe in magic. Smiler

I don't deny anything that is irrefutable from Science.


Hmm. Maybe I didn't state that clearly enough before.
I don't believe everything around me occurred by happenstance. It started because of, followed and is still following a logical, physical progression, from start to present. I believe it happened for a physical reason, not an 'emotional' one. That is not 'magic.' That is logic.

As in:

(This + That = Another thing.)
(This + That + Something Else divided by "Holy Crap!" = Something entirely different.)
(This + Something entirely different - Another thing = Uh-oh....We dunno what to call that result 'cause it's dead and it doesn't really matter anymore, now does it?)

(This + That + Another thing + Something entirely different = Shazam! New and Improved(tm) Something entirely different! )

According to Chaos Theory, "chance" isn't even really "chance." I believe that nothing happens by accident. Even accidents aren't really accidental. There's always a logical, physical purpose. I just can't believe it was on account of the desires of a supreme being.
It's mathematically impossible for it to have happened by chance or to have happened period. Yet, here we are. How? I've spent tormented hours looking through text that I thought would be a little more exciting. I found a who, not a what, extremists with an agenda - on both sides of this supposed debate that makes no logical sense. Mowing through the garbage to get at the truth is rather difficult.

You believe whatever you want. I don't think Science and God are in debate. I don't find them to be in conflict.

Instead of trying to prove the spiritual with the physical or trying to prove the physical with the spiritual, they should stick to proving the physical with the physical and the spiritual with the spiritual. Then they'd have nothing to fuss about...maybe. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
It's mathematically impossible for it to have happened by chance or to have happened period. Yet, here we are. How? I've spent tormented hours looking through text that I thought would be a little more exciting. I found a who, not a what, extremists with an agenda - on both sides of this supposed debate that makes no logical sense.



How? Well it makes sense to me that it all started with basics. Elements, then chemicals and energy, then simple life forms, then more complex ones over a very long time period happening in a place where the environment was coducive to life starting and evolving.
The bible would have me belive that a central, supreme being that always was just one day decided to 'whomp up' mankind in pretty much their current state of evolution with no regard to actual evidence of evolution whatsoever. Just "POOF!" (And it was good(tm) )

Which brings me to another thing you said:

Mowing through the garbage to get at the truth is rather difficult.

Depending upon where I'm standing-it certainly is. Big Grin

I DO wonder just where the heck the "basics" I speak of came from... By my own logic, everything IS for a reason. Everything came from or started somewhere. I just don't yet have that particular knowledge. Does it mean "God" is responsible for their creation? Maybe. I dunno. I cannot blindly believe that until I have exhausted all the means I'm capable of using to find that particular truth.
The reason it is mathematically impossible is because of how many variables had to have been perfectly aligned & all in the exact right amounts & all at exactly the right time. If we are here even though there is no way that we can be, for me, it points to a creator, a being to force that to happen. I understand if you don't see it that way.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
The reason it is mathematically impossible is because of how many variables had to have been perfectly aligned & all in the exact right amounts & all at exactly the right time.


That all depends on your perspective.

"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.' " Douglas Adams - Author of Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe.
quote:
Originally posted by The Artist Formerly Known as DeepFat:
Fundies, like Mr. Bill, claim to believe in an Earth (and Universe) that is 6000 years old.

We all know that is nonsense. Even you religious "moderates" out there know it's nonsense.

However, you "moderates" simply say "well, that's his belief, he can enjoy it if he wants". All the while legions of fundies like him try to influence boards of education to entertain their insane beliefs. They elect presidents and senators.

No, moderates, it's not enough that you understand the real world. Your tolerance of your fellow Christians (and Muslims and Jews) who take the Fundy stance is tacit approval of their beliefs.

The fundies have thrown down the gauntlet in Alabama (and Texas, and elsewhere). You are either with them or against them.

Where do you stand? And if you're against them, why don't you say so? Or do you?


DF


Deep
A lot of believers reject the notion of a 6000 year universe. Many accept a gap theory that between the first verse of Genesis and the second a great deal of time elapsed. I believe God created the universe I don't pretend to understand how. I've personally never believed time had much meaning with God.

That said "fundies" have as much right to influence the political process as any other group. Personally I think many of my fundamentalist brethren take up too much time with politics and have stated so in my church.

Putting up with things (and people) you don't like is a part of freedom.
Well, it's like a wise old bishop once at a lovely dinner after his second bot -- um, make that "taste" of port: "Religion is a lot like alcohol: both are fine when taken in moderation, now what House and what year was that we now sample Mr. Hughes?" "Niepoort 1963, sir."

He would surely change the topic when being forced to answer such a topic as Eve's fruit eating with a learned discourse full of Greek philosophical terms and Hebraicisms peppered with a smattering of Aramaic utterances to the point of bewildering the listener to such a point that they just left satisfied. In other words, when unable to please the gadfly, pepper them with pseudo-erudition, they finding that the written equivalent of a vocal snort of derision from a professed Christian to be an challenge to all that is holy and good like port wine and keeping dogs in the house.
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:
A lot of believers reject the notion of a 6000 year universe. Many accept a gap theory that between the first verse of Genesis and the second a great deal of time elapsed. I believe God created the universe I don't pretend to understand how. I've personally never believed time had much meaning with God.

That said "fundies" have as much right to influence the political process as any other group. Personally I think many of my fundamentalist brethren take up too much time with politics and have stated so in my church.

Putting up with things (and people) you don't like is a part of freedom.

Hi Tigr,

Just out of curiosity -- where do you stand on the Gap Theory -- and regardless of which you believe -- can you support it from Scripture?

Our salvation does not depend up which way we believe on this; but, I have had some interesting discussions on the matter.

And, I agree completely with you that Christians have a right to be in government -- and governmental health will always be a function of to what degree there is Christian influence in government. This is true all the way from local city government -- to federal government.

Most of the regrettable failures in our countries have come from secular influence. A wee bit more God will oil the machine of government and make it run much smoother.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROS_BIB-2_InBeginning
quote:
Originally posted by Rancid Apple:
quote:
Therefore, you will throw all common sense out the window and declare what you know is not true.



Excellent.

You give believers two choices: Either abandon all reason and accept the "fact" that earth is younger than the invention of beer and agriculture or burn in hell for recognizing the positively overwhelming mountain rage of evidence that the earth and all creation is much much older than we humans are capable of realizing.

It is exactly your kind willful abandonment of reason and insistence on blind faith that is killing religion for the young, science-literate kids in this country, Mr. Gray.

Keep up the good works. I'm sure your God will give you a big "atta boy" for helping the spread of disbelief.

Question: Do you ever wonder why God planted all this evidence to make it appear that the world is much older than you say?



Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the Worlds were framed by the word of God, so the things that are seen were not made of the things that are visible.

the Athiest's are going to Hell and want to take everybody they can with them.
quote:
Originally posted by btchpls50m:
Since logic dictates that order does not come from chaos, the formation of the universe from the Big Bang could not have formed into perfect arrangements of planets, stars, nebulae, or galaxies without an outside guiding hand.

Drop a box full of marbles and see if they form a pyramid.


Hey, btch...There IS order in chaos. Just cause it's not the order yer looking for doesn't mean it's not there. Those of us who can get past the whole "divine plan" way of thinking already know this.

That box of marbles prolly won't form a pyramid but those marbles WILL without fail follow the laws of physics-just like the organisms that eventually became 'us' did.

And Al...

I'm not an Atheist, I'm not going to your hell, whatever that is, and you can lead/follow/or get the righteous heck outta the way. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
And Al... I'm not an Atheist, I'm not going to your hell, whatever that is, and you can lead/follow/or get the righteous heck outta the way.

Hi Puppy,

You may not be an atheist -- but, you do the best imitation I have seen in a long time.

You are not going to the hell which Albert mentions? Since there is only one hell -- where have you made your reservations?

You can call it whatever you want -- but be sure to take your hot weather clothing along.

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Charlie-Brown_Snoopy-2_CLOUDS
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
You are not going to the hell which Albert mentions? Since there is only one hell -- where have you made your reservations? You can call it whatever you want -- but be sure to take your hot weather clothing along.


That is perhaps the most cruel thing I've ever seen uttered by someone who "claims" they are a follower of Christ. I'd be you would look down and actually laugh at the poor souls who are sent there while you wallow in your own self-righteousness.

You are a horrible individual and a horrid example of a follower of Jesus. I dont even think I'd pray for you. I think I'll ask God to help blind the atheists to your evilness in hopes of not putting them even further from God's infinite mercy.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
You are not going to the hell which Albert mentions? Since there is only one hell -- where have you made your reservations? You can call it whatever you want -- but be sure to take your hot weather clothing along.
That is perhaps the most cruel thing I've ever seen uttered by someone who "claims" they are a follower of Christ. I'd be you would look down and actually laugh at the poor souls who are sent there while you wallow in your own self-righteousness.

You are a horrible individual and a horrid example of a follower of Jesus. I don't even think I'd pray for you. I think I'll ask God to help blind the atheists to your evilness in hopes of not putting them even further from God's infinite mercy.

Hi Sofa,

Since when is speaking the truth, in a nice way, being cruel. Puppy said to Albert, "I'm not going to your hell, whatever that is, and you can lead/follow/or get the righteous heck outta the way."

Obviously Puppy does not believe there is a hell. And, from other Puppy posts, I would say he/she is not a believer -- at least his/her posts do not indicate that he/she has any interest in a relationship with Jesus Christ. So, I am reminding Puppy that there is, indeed, a hell -- but, only one. There is a one heaven and one hell -- the ONLY two eternal destinations. Every single person who has lived or will live -- will spend eternity in one or the other. Christian believers will spend eternity in heaven with God; non-believers will spend eternity in hell with Satan.

Every individual MUST make that very personal, very eternal, decision for himself/herself. A pastor cannot do it, a bishop or pope cannot do it, a church cannot do it, parents cannot do it -- each person must and will make that eternal decision, that eternal choice, for himself/herself.

You and I have not exchanged ideas very much, so I do not know where you stand on salvation and Jesus Christ. I will remind you that salvation is ONLY by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING ELSE. So, let me ask you: Have you made your eternal reservations yet? If not, I pray that you will today; for we are never promised a tomorrow.

Am I being "cruel" by saying this to you? No. I am being a Christian believer who, like all Christian believers, has been told by Jesus Christ to make sure that everyone hears the Gospel (Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8) -- and to warn those who have not yet put their faith in Jesus Christ. No, not cruel -- caring, loving, following my Master's instructions.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Charlie-Brown_Snoopy-2_CLOUDS
quote:
Am I being "cruel" by saying this to you? No. I am being a Christian believer who, like all Christian believers, has been told by Jesus Christ to make sure that everyone hears the Gospel (Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8) -- and to warn those who have not yet put their faith in Jesus Christ. No, not cruel -- caring, loving, following my Master's instructions.


I have to agree with Bill here. We are called as Christians to spread the gospel- to shout it from the rooftops. To do whatever we can to convert all our fellow man to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Now, I would say this is, indeed a harsh response. But in reading prior posts, it was warranted. I believe that Bill was putting it out there in this guys own "lingo"...
But my opinion,is someone that keeps posting on a religious forum is LOOKING for someone, or something that is missing in his life. Now, we Christians know what he is missing. He is missing Jesus.Perhaps he is not at the point in his life where he is ready to "admit" that. But he is a seeker, to be sure. Otherwise, why all the hostility? People are hostile when they are insecure, and full of doubt and confusion. He claims not to be an atheist...GREAT! Thats a great brick on which to build. So we should pray for a conversion of his heart.
Whether he wants it or not......
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:
A lot of believers reject the notion of a 6000 year universe. Many accept a gap theory that between the first verse of Genesis and the second a great deal of time elapsed. I believe God created the universe I don't pretend to understand how. I've personally never believed time had much meaning with God.

That said "fundies" have as much right to influence the political process as any other group. Personally I think many of my fundamentalist brethren take up too much time with politics and have stated so in my church.

Putting up with things (and people) you don't like is a part of freedom.

Hi Tigr,

Just out of curiosity -- where do you stand on the Gap Theory -- and regardless of which you believe -- can you support it from Scripture?

Our salvation does not depend up which way we believe on this; but, I have had some interesting discussions on the matter.

And, I agree completely with you that Christians have a right to be in government -- and governmental health will always be a function of to what degree there is Christian influence in government. This is true all the way from local city government -- to federal government.

Most of the regrettable failures in our countries have come from secular influence. A wee bit more God will oil the machine of government and make it run much smoother.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

To be honest Bill I had not heard of the gap theory until fairly recently. I understand people like Schofield held to this view. It may sound shallow but I've never studied Genesis very much nor End Time prophecy either. I know God created this universe and He will determine its final fate. Too many Christians get caught up in endless debates about prophecy. I'll do some study and get back with you sometime. God bless.
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:

Deep
A lot of believers reject the notion of a 6000 year universe. Many accept a gap theory that between the first verse of Genesis and the second a great deal of time elapsed. I believe God created the universe I don't pretend to understand how. I've personally never believed time had much meaning with God.

That said "fundies" have as much right to influence the political process as any other group. Personally I think many of my fundamentalist brethren take up too much time with politics and have stated so in my church.

Putting up with things (and people) you don't like is a part of freedom.


Wow, I dont visit the religion forum much, was curious about this DF person everyone talks about.

I dont claim to be very knowledgeable about religious subjects, but I have always wondered, why do folks try to apply 'earth' definitions of time to God? Our 'day' is based on the earths rotation, if God created the earth in a day, why would that day just happen to be 24 hours long? God's 'day' could be millions of years long for all we know.

I have a young child now and, as I look at her as she is discovering the world around her, I wonder how much different are we in our knowledge of God and how He works? At what point do we realize that there are some things we are just not capable of understanding during this period of our being, just as a 3 year old is not capable of understanding something as simple as 2+2?

Jeepin
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
Wow, I don't visit the religion forum much, was curious about this DF person everyone talks about.

I don't claim to be very knowledgeable about religious subjects, but I have always wondered, why do folks try to apply 'earth' definitions of time to God? Our 'day' is based on the earths rotation, if God created the earth in a day, why would that day just happen to be 24 hours long? God's 'day' could be millions of years long for all we know.

I have a young child now and, as I look at her as she is discovering the world around her, I wonder how much different are we in our knowledge of God and how He works? At what point do we realize that there are some things we are just not capable of understanding during this period of our being, just as a 3 year old is not capable of understanding something as simple as 2+2? Jeepin

Hi Jeepin,

The Hebrew word for "day" is "yom" or "yohm" -- and the Greek word for "day" is "hemera." The word "day" -- in Hebrew and Greek -- occurs 1741 times in 1541 verses in the KJV Bible. Of those instances, at least 80% or better refer to a lunar day, i.e, a 24 hour day. There are time when day does refer to a period of time; but, the great majority of the time, it refers to a lunar day.

Now, since we all know that God is capable of creating anything He desires in an instant, in the blink of an eye; the fact that He took six lunar days must have a significance.

God created the heavens and the earth, and all within this universe, including us -- in six lunar days and then He rested on the seventh. This is our model -- that we are to work six days and take a day of rest. The same with our domestic animals used for farming, etc. -- word six days and a day of rest.

Land produces more abundantly if it is planted for six years -- and allowed to lay fallow, uncultivated, during the seventh year.

Yes, God is pretty smart. But, He knew that we humans are not so much -- so, He set down guidelines -- both in His workings and in His Written Word, the Bible. All we have to do is to follow Him and His divine guidelines.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROS_BIB-2_InBeginning
You seem to be pretty well versed in bible verses, can you list some that support your belief that the 6 days were lunar days, or do you take that on faith?

Our model is based on what we have always been taught and passed on, but I have never seen it in scripture (not saying its not there, Im not as close to my bible as I should be) that God was working in lunar days. I would be very interested in seeing that in scripture.

As I said, IMHO we are mere children in regards to the 'truth' of how God created the earth and the heavens. We dont have the ability to understand it, and to say that we do is not realistic. Just as my daughter does not have the ability to understand how daddy can make Dora appear on the TV whenever I am willing to let her watch it (DVRs are wonderful), we do not have the ability to understand how we came to be. Do you not think that the 'seven days' could have been His simplified explaination that we could understand and accept?

Jeepin
quote:
Originally posted by barbaros45:
I think if would be extremely arrogant for any of us, including Bill, to think we have an idea of how, when, and how much time it took, to create the earth.....it hurts my head to even think about it...


Thats kindof what I thought too. I really though better of Bill and thought he would at least respond. Just took a walk around religion and found him posting elsewhere. I guess I can safely say he doesnt know.

Jeepin
I am beginning to see a bit of a pattern- he seems to "light some fires" and get people p-o'd and then vanish! Probably just sitting back and watching the fall out in some kind of sadistic manner.
It is strange- because when he is called out on falsehoods, he is not around to reply; but give him an atheist, or someone he feels he can brainwash, and he's all over it like white on rice.
I guess that's human nature, though. But most of us have the maturity to say "Yes, I made an error, or I was harsh, " But it is a childish approach to stir the pot, and then run away. A bully on the internet.Smiler
quote:
I think if would be extremely arrogant for any of us, including Bill, to think we have an idea of how, when, and how much time it took, to create the earth.....it hurts my head to even think about it...



Science has a very good understanding of this verified through the convergence of multiple lines of evidence including geologic, cosmological, astronomical, molecular, radiometric, and a dozen other disciplines.

It is simply incredible that we will have people living today in this electronic world that still accept the ramblings of the ancient wise men as literal truth.

Bill, God gave us the ability to discern His creation through science. Denying science is to deny His gift to you. Willful ignorance just has to be a sin.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
You think it a preposterous proposition to believe God exists. I think it a preposterous proposition to think everything you see around you happened totally by chance. What I believe requires less faith.

I don't fear anything Science has to offer, not threatened by it in the least, welcome the knowledge.


What you believe requires less knowledge of simple statistics.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
It's mathematically impossible for it to have happened by chance or to have happened period. Yet, here we are. How? I've spent tormented hours looking through text that I thought would be a little more exciting. I found a who, not a what, extremists with an agenda - on both sides of this supposed debate that makes no logical sense. Mowing through the garbage to get at the truth is rather difficult.

You believe whatever you want. I don't think Science and God are in debate. I don't find them to be in conflict.

Instead of trying to prove the spiritual with the physical or trying to prove the physical with the spiritual, they should stick to proving the physical with the physical and the spiritual with the spiritual. Then they'd have nothing to fuss about...maybe. Wink


quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
The reason it is mathematically impossible is because of how many variables had to have been perfectly aligned & all in the exact right amounts & all at exactly the right time. If we are here even though there is no way that we can be, for me, it points to a creator, a being to force that to happen. I understand if you don't see it that way.


quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
I don't deny anything that is irrefutable from Science.

God drew me to him & I accepted Christ as Savior, later as Lord of my life. Since that time, my faith has grown through the evidence given me through a lifetime with him, his work in my life & experiences that cannot be explained away. That is evidence for me, not for you. The first step was faith, to believe. You don't. I do. That separates us & our paths.

Science, however, belongs to both of us. Smiler Nuts turn it into a competition. It's not.


And, no, I'm not calling you a nut, Crusty...lol...how exactly did you come to the conclusion that my knowledge of simple statistics is less than your own, I guess you are saying?

===========================================================
Last edited by _Joy_
why are you praying that other people come around to being enlightened to your "thinking"???
My goodness, how very very presumptuous to think that YOU are the one with all the answers.
Maybe we should all be praying for BG to see the error of his ways, and realize the danger in false teachings?? Or do you really KNOW something that the rest of us don't??
Perhaps you have witnessed a vision of Jesus or His Blessed Mother? If this is so, you really should report to the Church authorities, so they may investigate and authenticate this apparition. hmm..do you think????
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123: why are you praying that other people come around to being enlightened to your "thinking"??? My goodness, how very very presumptuous to think that YOU are the one with all the answers. Maybe we should all be praying for BG to see the error of his ways, and realize the danger in false teachings?? Or do you really KNOW something that the rest of us don't?? Perhaps you have witnessed a vision of Jesus or His Blessed Mother? If this is so, you really should report to the Church authorities, so they may investigate and authenticate this apparition. hmm.. do you think????

Hi VP,

Now, I see the source of your confusion. You are supposing I am sharing what Bill Gray thinks. No, I am sharing what the Bible tells us -- for it is the SOLE AUTHORITY for salvation and for Christian living -- given by God to man. You recall this: Sola Scriptura -- by Scripture Alone!

But, please do pray for Bill Gray. I need all the prayers you can send up for me.

Have I witnessed a vision of Jesus Christ? No, but, I HAVE spoken with Him often -- as a matter of fact, multiple times each day. He sends His love.

You say I should report this to the "Church authorities." My Church Authority already knows -- for it to Him that I speak in all my prayers. You do realize that prayer is merely a conversation with your Best Friend, right? And, that Best Friend should be Jesus Christ; at least, for me it is.

My suggestion, VP -- lay aside your book of man-made Traditions; lay aside your Catechism -- and pick up your Bible and study it diligently. This will pay eternal rewards.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROS_BIB-2_SOLE

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×