quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
Well, i'm not exactly sure what you mean by predators. I've been hit on by gay men before. i don't consider that being hunted by a gay predator, i figure it's a complement because he thought i was good looking and hoped i played for his team. when i told him that, no, i didn't play for his team he accepted it at left me alone.

Hi Nagel,

When I say "gay predator" I am thinking more of the older gays who go after the young kids fresh in the military. This could be older gays from the community surrounding the training base -- or it could be older gays within the military who will take advantage of the new kids who have not yet learned their way around the military.

Yes, like you, as an older man -- I have always been able to handle the situation with gays who approach me in bars and night clubs. These are not the predators I had in mind.

Our young people in the military have volunteered to go in harm's way to protect our way of life. We owe it to them to protect them from gay predators while they are being prepared for their duty.

That is my point -- and I believe, from personal experience, myself and friends, it is a valid point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
I'm always going to be in favor of making the world a more equal, less hated filled place

BINGO! And if it conflicts with ones religious convictions, I say grow up and deal with it.... we live in a multicultural, multi-faith, country of Free Will. Our military should be a melting pot to reflect such.

Hi VP,

So your Roman Catholic church supports the homosexual lifestyle and believes that gays should openly be in the military?

I would have thought differently -- especially seeing how homosexuality and gay predators have affected so many within the Roman Catholic church.

But, if you say the Roman Catholic church supports homosexuality; who am I to argue with you.

Or, was this just another juvenile knee jerk reaction to disagree with Bill Gray?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Please tell me where I said that Catholic Church supports the homosexual lifestyle.

Please don't lie and twist words, it's not very becoming.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Please don't lie and twist words, it's not very becoming.


That's what Bill does when he doesn't have a response.

Dustin
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Please tell me where I said that Catholic Church supports the homosexual lifestyle. Please don't lie and twist words, it's not very becoming.

Okay, VP,

Maybe I misread your post -- it is only YOU, a staunch Roman Catholic, who supports Gays and Homosexuality. Do you also support this among the priests? If in the military -- why not in the church? Both offer predatory access to young people.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Do I support gays?
Absolutely!!!!!!
I support and love all my sisters and brothers. While I may not agree with their lifestyle, it is not my place to cast stones. I am certainly not without sin myself.
So, you can love the sinner, hate the sin. Just like Jesus does.
I think your "predatory" depiction of gays is way off base. And yeah, I have plenty of experience with "gay" people. Never once did I find their spirits to be predatory. On the contrary, I found the gays that I worked with to be more open, loving and meek than most. Are they in sin? Yes. But show me someone who isnt.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
Well, i'm not exactly sure what you mean by predators. I've been hit on by gay men before. i don't consider that being hunted by a gay predator, i figure it's a complement because he thought i was good looking and hoped i played for his team. when i told him that, no, i didn't play for his team he accepted it at left me alone.

Hi Nagel,

When I say "gay predator" I am thinking more of the older gays who go after the young kids fresh in the military. This could be older gays from the community surrounding the training base -- or it could be older gays within the military who will take advantage of the new kids who have not yet learned their way around the military.

Yes, like you, as an older man -- I have always been able to handle the situation with gays who approach me in bars and night clubs. These are not the predators I had in mind.

Our young people in the military have volunteered to go in harm's way to protect our way of life. We owe it to them to protect them from gay predators while they are being prepared for their duty.

That is my point -- and I believe, from personal experience, myself and friends, it is a valid point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


It may well be valid. I cannot confirm or deny its validity. All i can say is that the few times i've been hit on by a gay guy, he was polite and respectful and took No to mean No. I've never experianced your version of the Gay Predator, so I don't really have an opinion on it.

All i really know for a fact is this:

I'm not gay, and because i'm not i don't really have an opinion on the gay lifestyle. whether it's bibilically wrong or not is no concern of mine - it's God's job to dole out judgement. I don't worry that my son will 'be lured into homosexuality' because i personally believe either you are gay, or you aren't. I know you disagree, but we're all entitled to our own opinion. you will claim that the bible proves your point, but i disagree with that as well, so there isn't any point in arguing it. we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one and let it go.

You are correct - we DO owe it to those willing to serve. we owe them everything. i was never of the temprement to serve in the military, but i have worlds of respect for those who do, and did, and that includes you. Smiler

But.. bare with me here...

( This is a hypothetical, merely something to think about....)

Is it possible that your biblical beliefs cause you to see a greater threat than is really there? i know you like to think you don't discriminate, but instead try to bring the gays out of sin. to most of the rest of us it looks like discrimination and fear and ahtred towards homosexuals. i'm not accusing you of this, i'm simply stating that this is what it looks like to most of us.

so, i wonder if your concern of the threat of gay predators in the military isn't because of your deep seated belief that homosexuality is passed from person to person like the flu, and with each ' conversion' spreads sin with it?

See.. until you, I've never met anyone who mentioned 'gay military predators' other than one marine who, while discussing the Navy's predator drones, who said "Dude, Predator's are gay. they're so the POGe's scan just play nintendo on the ships and not get their uniforms dirty."
( but i think this isn't what you mean)

i've known several people in the various services, including coast guards, and some of them i've known very well. none of them have ever mentioned feeling threatened in the way you mention.

i'm not saying you are lying or anything... i'm saying perhaps you see a greater threat than is really there, because of a couple of bad experiances you had. perhaps you were the extreme exception, and not the rule.

it's just a thought. /shrug
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:


When I say "gay predator" I am thinking more of the older gays who go after the young kids fresh in the military. This could be older gays from the community surrounding the training base -- or it could be older gays within the military who will take advantage of the new kids who have not yet learned their way around the military.


Wellnow. I would think that if a recruit couldn't handle getting hit on by a polesmoker, he probably wouldn't make it through training anyway. After all-They ARE there preparing to deal death and destruction on an enemy far more formidable than the average nancyboy. Then again, mebbe the Air Force is different. I mean, "fly truck-push button-fly home."
Not a lotta contact sport there. I suppose in the other branches where fighting is done on the ground-more up close and personal the recruits end up a bit tougher. HOOAH!
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?


*I* tell him.


Thats what I thought. You are sadly mistaken how children learn.
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
I guess this guy was born this way.

I bet I don't get a response out of dusty boy or davy.


it's possible.
it hasn't been determined at this time what causes a scociopath or a child molester. they think that sometimes childhood trauma *can* contribute, but not always. otherwise there would be a lot more around.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?




*I* tell him.


Thats what I thought. You are sadly mistaken how children learn.


i see.
and your opinion is?

More importantly, why should i care what you think?
Last edited by thenagel
I didn't have to google long to find this: http://www.military.com/news/a...t-for-being-gay.html

News flash: There have always been homosexuals in the military. I've met homosexual veterans. I didn't kiss them, but I've met them.

There have been homosexuals in the military always. Since Alexander the Great, and beyond.

Imagine this: If homosexuals can identify themselves as such, then there is not the current ambiguity as to who is gay and who is not.


Wouldn't that be better?
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?




*I* tell him.


Thats what I thought. You are sadly mistaken how children learn.


i see.
and your opinion is?



What lesson do you think your son learns when you, his Father, approves of homosexuality?
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?




*I* tell him.


Thats what I thought. You are sadly mistaken how children learn.


i see.
and your opinion is?



What lesson do you think your son learns when you, his Father, approves of homosexuality?


that all men are created equal, and no one should be discriminated against because of race, religion, creed, sexual preferance or nation of origin.

i never said i ' approved' of homosexuality.
in fact, i agree that the bible says that it is an abomonation, and ergo, a sin.
HOWEVER - I am not God, nor do i presume to have his authority to judge my fellow man based upon his rules. i can judge if someone is worth my time. i can judge if someone is the sort of person i want to get to know. i can judge whether or not a person is lying, full of crap, or a general waste of air. i can make mundane judgements about how things affect my life here on earth.

i cannot pass judgements for the divine. it's not my place to decide whether or not someone sins by their lifestyle.
and because of that i try my best to treat people equally. gay, straight, black white, redhead, blonde, jew, muslim, i don't care. we are all equal in the eyes of God, and until He decides otherwise, all are equal in my eyes. He may judge, but i cannot.

and i've taught my son the same thing. he doesn't have the authority to pass judgements on man that are reserved for God.
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
god has no such rights, either.

Hi my Deep/Fish Friend,

God has the right to do what He wants. After all, we are His creation; He is not our Creation.

But, then again, telling this to an atheist is like spitting into the wind. Yet, for the sake of those whose spirits are not dead -- I will say it.

It is funny how an atheist will totally deny God; then, turn around and tell us that God does not have the right to judge us. If there is no God, it is a moot point.

Yet, if there IS a God; it becomes a very important point.

Which is true: God or no God?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
that all men are created equal, and no one should be discriminated against because of race, religion, creed, sexual preferance or nation of origin.

i never said i ' approved' of homosexuality.
in fact, i agree that the bible says that it is an abomonation, and ergo, a sin.
HOWEVER - I am not God, nor do i presume to have his authority to judge my fellow man based upon his rules. i can judge if someone is worth my time. i can judge if someone is the sort of person i want to get to know. i can judge whether or not a person is lying, full of crap, or a general waste of air. i can make mundane judgements about how things affect my life here on earth.

i cannot pass judgements for the divine. it's not my place to decide whether or not someone sins by their lifestyle.
and because of that i try my best to treat people equally. gay, straight, black white, redhead, blonde, jew, muslim, i don't care. we are all equal in the eyes of God, and until He decides otherwise, all are equal in my eyes. He may judge, but i cannot.

and i've taught my son the same thing. he doesn't have the authority to pass judgements on man that are reserved for God.


Oh, Thenagel...///bows to you! Smiler Perfectly stated!
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Seems I'm not familiar with the lingo here yet. Why does Bill call me "Deep/Fish"? Is it a compliment or an insult?

Hi Deep,

Actually, it is neither; only the facts. But, after reading more of your posts, I should have only written "Deep."

Welcome back! How long will you stay this time before your mouth/typing finger gets you in hot water and you get invited to leave again?

But, I do welcome you back -- for your atheist comments gave me many platforms from which to share the Gospel.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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maybe not insane, but just paranoid. He has also accused me of posting under different names....it's all that pollution in Californication. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?




*I* tell him.


Thats what I thought. You are sadly mistaken how children learn.


i see.
and your opinion is?



What lesson do you think your son learns when you, his Father, approves of homosexuality?


that all men are created equal, and no one should be discriminated against because of race, religion, creed, sexual preferance or nation of origin.

i never said i ' approved' of homosexuality.
in fact, i agree that the bible says that it is an abomonation, and ergo, a sin.
HOWEVER - I am not God, nor do i presume to have his authority to judge my fellow man based upon his rules. i can judge if someone is worth my time. i can judge if someone is the sort of person i want to get to know. i can judge whether or not a person is lying, full of crap, or a general waste of air. i can make mundane judgements about how things affect my life here on earth.

i cannot pass judgements for the divine. it's not my place to decide whether or not someone sins by their lifestyle.
and because of that i try my best to treat people equally. gay, straight, black white, redhead, blonde, jew, muslim, i don't care. we are all equal in the eyes of God, and until He decides otherwise, all are equal in my eyes. He may judge, but i cannot.

and i've taught my son the same thing. he doesn't have the authority to pass judgements on man that are reserved for God.



Hold up a minute. Why are you referring to the constitution and God?

What has either to do with OUR discussion?

You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.
quote:


You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.


And I would venture that theangel's son will turn out to be better adjusted than your children WH. Heaven help them growing up with that attitude instilled into them.

What is YOUR obsession with the gay thing?
You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.

Yes! His son will see that his father does not presume to judge other people. He can love and accept people for whom they are. He doesnt have to agree with it, but he is not correct to condemn and cast stones either.
Let me ask you a question- if your son came to you and told you he was gay, would you kick him out of the house? Disown him?
quote:
Originally posted by WH:


Hold up a minute. Why are you referring to the constitution and God?


Ohh.. I dunno. possibly because the line is " all men are CREATED equal... and since God is the Creator, i thought it somewhat appropriate.


quote:

What has either to do with OUR discussion?


quite a lot, really.
odd that you don't see it.
if it weren't for God, your position of homosexuality being wrong would be pretty pointless, don't you think? If not for the constitution guarenteeing equality, it also would be a pretty pointless discussion.

this is of course, assuming that your anti-gay stance is based on something real and not just from fear and ignorance on your part - hate for hate's sake because they are different therefore they should be shunned and punished.

quote:

You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.


Interesting. now you're a mind reader? you can read this post and you can see into my mind and heart and now what i think better than i do?
Most Impressive. Also quite arrogant, and very laughable.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.

Yes! His son will see that his father does not presume to judge other people. He can love and accept people for whom they are. He doesnt have to agree with it, but he is not correct to condemn and cast stones either.
Let me ask you a question- if your son came to you and told you he was gay, would you kick him out of the house? Disown him?


I'm guessing he would cast a lot of stones, till death.

The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so.

Hi B50,

If you are a Christian believer, Matthew 18:15-17 not only gives you the authority -- but, also the marching orders to do so within the church, the body of Christ.

And, Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15 gives you the authority and the marching orders to do so outside the body of Christ, the church.

Either way, as the saying goes, "Just do it!" -- instead of sitting on your butt denying what Jesus Christ has asked of you and all Christian believers.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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When you get pass the 'Judge not lest ye be judged', we can discuss it.

quote:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.



YOU can go around condemning people all day, I prefer to offer a kind ear and let God do the rest.
quote:
Matthew 18:15-17



A Brother Who Sins Against You
15"If your brother sins against you,[a] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[b] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.



I take this to mean a sin against someone personally Bill, not condemning every one who has sinned and then treating them like pagans. I can see where you would get that out of it.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
YOU can go around condemning people all day, I prefer to offer a kind ear and let God do the rest.

Hi B50,

In other words, YOU want God to do all the work -- and, let you just sit back and reap all the benefits.

I wonder if that is what Jesus Christ intended when He gave us marching orders in Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, and Mark 16:15?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Matthew 18:15-17 A Brother Who Sins Against You

Matthew 18:15-17,"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

I take this to mean a sin against someone personally Bill, not condemning every one who has sinned and then treating them like pagans. I can see where you would get that out of it.

Hi B50,

If this passage meant only that sin against you personally; why would He tell us to take it before the whole church? No, when this passage says "sins against you" it is referring to a sin against the body of Christ, the church. This passage can be related to 1 Corinthians 5 and 6 where Paul writes more about personal sins which affect the whole church, i.e, incest, law suits among Christians, etc.

In this passage, Jesus Christ is telling us that, if a brother/sister is living a life which is detrimental to the body of Christ, and to himself/herself, we must reprove him/her in private. If that person will not listen, then we are to take 2 or 3 mature Christians with us and reprove this person.

If he/she still refuses to change that action or lifestyle which is harmful to his/her walk with the Lord and the body of Christ -- then, we are to take that person before the congregation. If he/she still refuses to change -- we ask him/her to leave the church. This is not to condemn them; but in the hope that this will cause the person to reconsider their actions. If then, he/she still insists upon following the wrong path -- we must choose to protect the church from this distraction and bad influence.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Hi B50,

In other words, YOU want God to do all the work -- and, let you just sit back and reap all the benefits.

I wonder if that is what Jesus Christ intended when He gave us marching orders in Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, and Mark 16:15?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,


Well Bill, He is the one who opens the heart and the mind, not me. If He is NOT doing 'all the work', then worshiping Him would be a little silly.

Matthew 18 clearly says, 'If your brother sins against you', you are to talk in private, then use other Christians to help that one person who sinned against you. Not the entire church.

As for your last line, I guess your church kicks out all the known homosexuals, or do you have a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy?
quote:
Ohh.. I dunno. possibly because the line is " all men are CREATED equal... and since God is the Creator, i thought it somewhat appropriate.



All men may be created equal, its what happens after creation that counts. Why you brought this up behooves me...it is neither here nor there with our discussion.


quote:
if it weren't for God, your position of homosexuality being wrong would be pretty pointless, don't you think?



No. God has nothing to do with my thinking homosexuality is wrong. I think it is wrong for one man to let another man enter his body for sexual gratification. Either is not showing respect for themselves, they certainly wont receive any respect from me.


quote:
If not for the constitution guarenteeing equality, it also would be a pretty pointless discussion.



The constitution doesn't guarantee equality.


quote:
this is of course, assuming that your anti-gay stance is based on something real and not just from fear and ignorance on your part - hate for hate's sake because they are different therefore they should be shunned and punished.



Yes I think sexual perversion is real. Now you are trying to insert "hate' into the discussion, please don't be dishonest. Where did I say I hated them?


quote:
Interesting. now you're a mind reader? you can read this post and you can see into my mind and heart and now what i think better than i do?


I can only go by what you are posting. It sure appears you are in support of homosexuality, at least your postings dictate as much. To make it simple, I will ask...are you in support of homosexuality?

quote:
Most Impressive. Also quite arrogant, and very laughable.



Actually I think you expecting me to accept homosexuality as right is arrogant, and quite frankly sad, very sad that our country has come to this. As a straight man myself, what would your opinion be if I wanted to have a few more wives?
quote:
Originally posted by StarryNight:
quote:


You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.


And I would venture that theangel's son will turn out to be better adjusted than your children WH. Heaven help them growing up with that attitude instilled into them.

What is YOUR obsession with the gay thing?


My children are grown women. They have given me 4 absolutely wonderful grandchildren...something his son wont be able to do if he goes homosexual. Hie sons life will be cut by twenty years, he will be exposed to more diseases. He will be greatly more likely to commit suicide. Why would he not want his son to be made aware of this?


To a child your words say one thing...your actions says it ALL.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
When you get pass the 'Judge not lest ye be judged', we can discuss it.

quote:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.



YOU can go around condemning people all day, I prefer to offer a kind ear and let God do the rest.


B50...what would you say to a child molester?

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