quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by StarryNight:
quote:


You say you are not approving of homosexuality...well yes thenagel, you are. And your son will see this.


And I would venture that theangel's son will turn out to be better adjusted than your children WH. Heaven help them growing up with that attitude instilled into them.

What is YOUR obsession with the gay thing?


My children are grown women. They have given me 4 absolutely wonderful grandchildren...something his son wont be able to do if he goes homosexual. Hie sons life will be cut by twenty years, he will be exposed to more diseases. He will be greatly more likely to commit suicide. Why would he not want his son to be made aware of this?


To a child your words say one thing...your actions says it ALL.


I have 2 grown sons and 1 grandchild. My boys were raised with alot of the same ideals and morals that thenagel is raising his son with. My 2 are heterosexuals. I have a couple of homosexual friends that they spent time with as small children and teens. I have a cousin that is homosexual and very close to my family. If my son's had been born homosexual the only fear I would have would be from people like you making their lives difficult and making them feel like they were less than a man because of their sexual orientation.

You talk about high suicide rates in homosexuals. That is true. You should look at the reason why the numbers are high. It is usually young people and in most cases they are either from a very homophobic families and they fear loosing them or displeasing them or they have been picked on and bullied by homophobic classmates to the point of desperation.

I taught my son's to respect others rights to live their lives as they choose. To not mistreat those that are different from them. I am proud of the men they have become and I am proud to say they also have gay friends and my oldest even has one of his gay friends babysit his son on occasion.

I think you were the one that posted the question about more than one wife? I say if all involved are consenting adults that haven't been forced into the situation then by all means have 100!

When this country starts paying attention to whats really going wrong in this country and not what 2 consenting people do in there bedroom we might see this country be all it should be.

My husband is very heterosexual and he could care less what other men do. Why do you care so much? You say its not about god or country...so.....tell us again about men entering other men. You seem to have thought about it quite abit. I see you made no mention of homosexual women...
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
When you get pass the 'Judge not lest ye be judged', we can discuss it.

quote:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.



YOU can go around condemning people all day, I prefer to offer a kind ear and let God do the rest.


B50...what would you say to a child molester?


Are you seriously equating a child molester to homosexuals? Child molestation has an innocent victim. The child. Homosexuals are mutual consenting individuals. Children being forced to have sex with ANY gender is a crime as it should be. What is wrong with you? Do you really think its the same thing?
quote:
Originally posted by WH:

All men may be created equal, its what happens after creation that counts. Why you brought this up behooves me...it is neither here nor there with our discussion.

i disagree. i treat people with equality, and that peice of paper is one of the reasons why. not the only reason, and not even the main reason, but a contributing factor.


quote:

Yes I think sexual perversion is real. Now you are trying to insert "hate' into the discussion, please don't be dishonest. Where did I say I hated them?


sorry. was just going on the things you've posted and the way you've phrased things in the past. perhaps i was wrong.

quote:

I can only go by what you are posting. It sure appears you are in support of homosexuality, at least your postings dictate as much. To make it simple, I will ask...are you in support of homosexuality?


i'm neither supportive of, nor against homosexuality.
i'm really pretty neutral about it. truly, i don't spend any time out of my day contempating homosexuality until i come here and see you and bill gray obsessing about it. i think it's possible you two spend more time thinking about gay men than most of the gay men that i know.
to me, the fact that they are gay isn't important. it just isn't a factor that i consider important.

when the subject is brought up, like now, then i have to say that i do believe that the line in the bible about for man to lie with a man is pretty explicit and i can't really see a way to wiggle around with it to make it mean anything other than what it says. but then , that's an issue between the gay man and God. i don't have a place in that conversation, and i won't pretend to.


quote:

Actually I think you expecting me to accept homosexuality as right is arrogant, and quite frankly sad, very sad that our country has come to this. As a straight man myself, what would your opinion be if I wanted to have a few more wives?


to answer the question first, my opinion would be that if you're crazy enough to want more than one, go right ahead. you might want to pick someplace else to live, tho, cause that's frowned on in this country. it's not my place to tell soemone else how to live their lives, whether i agree with it or not.

to reply to the other bit, i never asked you to accept anything, let alone expect. i don't really care any more about what you accept than i do about homosexuality. you're pretty much even with gay men in my book. what did irk me was that you seemed to be trying to tell me to make sure i raise my children as judgemental bigots, and that if i didn't i'm a horrible parent. that was a bit annoying, at first. but then i remembered who i was talking to, and was just amused instead.
You beat me to it Jank.

That 'child molester' is a pedophile. A pedophile is NOT a rational thinking individual. A pedophile may be heterosexual as well as homosexual.


What would I say to one? 50 years, no parole.

As for the case of homosexuals, WH, you and Bill make a great pair. You judge them, pass sentence and hang them all in one swoop. Then you brag about how great a Christian you are.


You're enough to make a Christian feel disgusted. I can only pray for people to understand that not all religious people behave or think like you two.
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms.

AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
something his son wont be able to do if he goes homosexual. Hie sons life will be cut by twenty years, he will be exposed to more diseases. He will be greatly more likely to commit suicide. Why would he not want his son to be made aware of this?


ROFL.
because, unlike you, i don't believe that someone can 'go homosexual'. i believe that either a person is or is not gay.
i understand that you think gay spreads by contact, but i can't help that. maybe you believe that elvis is still alive as well. i can't help what silly things you believe.
but i cna make sure my children aren't raised believe the same silly things that your kids were. i can only hope that as they grew up they learned that their father was a loon and have dismissed a lot of the crap you probably fed to them as gospel.

some of the stats you listed have soem truth to them, especailly the one about suicide. have you considered why it might be? could it be because frightend, confused young men and women unsure of themselves and their feelings are persecuted and harassed and made to feel abnormal and hated by people liek you. they are made to feel they have no worth and no place in this world by people liek you.

my son is aware of things like that - that bullies can make people feel so bad about themselves that they would rather die that face another day of it. he is aware that bullies come in all shapes sizes and ages. he is also aware that the one key thing that 90% of all bullies have in common is that they feel like outsiders and and freaks themselves, so they torture others to make themselves feel bigger, better, and more important.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms. AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?

Hi B50,

Ground zero for AIDS, i.e., the first recognized, known, and recorded case of AIDS was a European Male Flight Attendant (I believe he was from the Netherlands) who was frequenting gay bars and bath houses in San Francisco. This is well documented.

Now, he may have played with monkeys in his travels -- but, he is the Ground Zero AIDS case for medical purposes.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Photos (1)
@ jankinonya...



quote:
I taught my son's to respect others rights to live their lives as they choose.



Tell me then...why can't I live my life as I want?

As for the rest of your homosexual support...your sons just may not be all you think...you are who you associate with.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
When you get pass the 'Judge not lest ye be judged', we can discuss it.

quote:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.



YOU can go around condemning people all day, I prefer to offer a kind ear and let God do the rest.


B50...what would you say to a child molester?


Are you seriously equating a child molester to homosexuals? Child molestation has an innocent victim. The child. Homosexuals are mutual consenting individuals. Children being forced to have sex with ANY gender is a crime as it should be. What is wrong with you? Do you really think its the same thing?



Both are a form of sexual perversion.

Here is a good read for you.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
You beat me to it Jank.

That 'child molester' is a pedophile. A pedophile is NOT a rational thinking individual. A pedophile may be heterosexual as well as homosexual.


What would I say to one? 50 years, no parole.

As for the case of homosexuals, WH, you and Bill make a great pair. You judge them, pass sentence and hang them all in one swoop. Then you brag about how great a Christian you are.


You're enough to make a Christian feel disgusted. I can only pray for people to understand that not all religious people behave or think like you two.



Oh, I sure thought you made this statement...

"The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so."



BTW...I am not a Christian and have never claimed to be.
quote:
i disagree. i treat people with equality, and that peice of paper is one of the reasons why. not the only reason, and not even the main reason, but a contributing factor.



Absolutely laughable. Your morals are determined by what someone else says? I make my own decisions, no one tells me how I should think.


quote:
sorry. was just going on the things you've posted and the way you've phrased things in the past. perhaps i was wrong.


Actually, you got caught being dishonest. The quote feature is alive and well.


quote:
i'm neither supportive of, nor against homosexuality.
i'm really pretty neutral about it. truly, i don't spend any time out of my day contempating homosexuality until i come here and see you and bill gray obsessing about it. i think it's possible you two spend more time thinking about gay men than most of the gay men that i know.
to me, the fact that they are gay isn't important. it just isn't a factor that i consider important.

when the subject is brought up, like now, then i have to say that i do believe that the line in the bible about for man to lie with a man is pretty explicit and i can't really see a way to wiggle around with it to make it mean anything other than what it says. but then , that's an issue between the gay man and God. i don't have a place in that conversation, and i won't pretend to.


Well you were the one that brought God and the bible into this, not me. I could care less what the bible says...why you keep referring to this is beyond me.

Yes thenagel...you are supporting homosexuality. I have never seen a liberal that would admit what they are doing. Why do you think you have a right to condemn me for my views?

quote:
to answer the question first, my opinion would be that if you're crazy enough to want more than one, go right ahead. you might want to pick someplace else to live, tho, cause that's frowned on in this country. it's not my place to tell soemone else how to live their lives, whether i agree with it or not.

to reply to the other bit, i never asked you to accept anything, let alone expect. i don't really care any more about what you accept than i do about homosexuality. you're pretty much even with gay men in my book. what did irk me was that you seemed to be trying to tell me to make sure i raise my children as judgemental bigots, and that if i didn't i'm a horrible parent. that was a bit annoying, at first. but then i remembered who i was talking to, and was just amused instead.


Oh...I see...homosexuality IS NOT frowned upon in this country...is that what you think? You brought your son into this...not me. This statement from you is really the kicker...

quote:
it's not my place to tell soemone else how to live their lives, whether i agree with it or not.



Why are trying to tell me how to live my life then? You my friend are a liberal hypocrite. Any time you feel like it you can retract the lie you have perpetrated on me with the "HATE" references. I doubt you are man enough to do that though.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms.

AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?


Now you are in support of beastiality?
quote:
Oh...I see...homosexuality IS NOT frowned upon in this country...is that what you think?



Well, black people are frown upon in this nation, too by ignorant people. Your point is?
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms. AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?

Hi B50,

Ground zero for AIDS, i.e., the first recognized, known, and recorded case of AIDS was a European Male Flight Attendant (I believe he was from the Netherlands) who was frequenting gay bars and bath houses in San Francisco. This is well documented.

Now, he may have played with monkeys in his travels -- but, he is the Ground Zero AIDS case for medical purposes.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Try again Bill.


What type of virus is HIV?

HIV is a lentivirus, and like all viruses of this type, it attacks the immune system. Lentiviruses are in turn part of a larger group of viruses known as retroviruses. The name 'lentivirus' literally means 'slow virus' because they take such a long time to produce any adverse effects in the body. They have been found in a number of different animals, including cats, sheep, horses and cattle. However, the most interesting lentivirus in terms of the investigation into the origins of HIV is the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV) that affects monkeys.
So did HIV come from an SIV?
It is now thought that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees.

It is now generally accepted that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus because certain strains of SIVs bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV.

HIV-2 for example corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the sooty mangabey (also known as the White-collared monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa.

The more virulent, pandemic strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, was until recently more difficult to place. Until 1999, the closest counterpart that had been identified was SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. However, this virus still had certain significant differences from HIV.
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
You beat me to it Jank.

That 'child molester' is a pedophile. A pedophile is NOT a rational thinking individual. A pedophile may be heterosexual as well as homosexual.


What would I say to one? 50 years, no parole.

As for the case of homosexuals, WH, you and Bill make a great pair. You judge them, pass sentence and hang them all in one swoop. Then you brag about how great a Christian you are.


You're enough to make a Christian feel disgusted. I can only pray for people to understand that not all religious people behave or think like you two.



Oh, I sure thought you made this statement...

"The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so."



BTW...I am not a Christian and have never claimed to be.


I am not judging your purpose in life and whether you will have an eternity in Heaven or Hell, I am making the statement that your views disgust me, just like any racist disgust me.
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms.

AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?


Now you are in support of beastiality?


You're as warped as Bill.
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ jankinonya...



quote:
I taught my son's to respect others rights to live their lives as they choose.



Tell me then...why can't I live my life as I want?

As for the rest of your homosexual support...your sons just may not be all you think...you are who you associate with.


No one is stopping you from living your life as you want.....unless that means taking rights away from other American's. Then we got a problem.

My sons are wonderful men. I am proud of them in every way. If they had been homosexual that would have been fine with me. They know that and would have no reason to hide it from me. You don't catch homosexuality like a cold for goodness sake. If so we all would be. I am sure even you have came in contact with one in your life time, whether you knew it or not. What about yours...do you think with the attitude you have towards people who are different (or so you say) than you that your daughters would feel they could tell you something like "I am a lesbian"..? I seriously doubt it.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Oh...I see...homosexuality IS NOT frowned upon in this country...is that what you think?



Well, black people are frown upon in this nation, too by ignorant people. Your point is?


How stupid. You are inadvertently saying you frown on black people.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
You beat me to it Jank.

That 'child molester' is a pedophile. A pedophile is NOT a rational thinking individual. A pedophile may be heterosexual as well as homosexual.


What would I say to one? 50 years, no parole.

As for the case of homosexuals, WH, you and Bill make a great pair. You judge them, pass sentence and hang them all in one swoop. Then you brag about how great a Christian you are.


You're enough to make a Christian feel disgusted. I can only pray for people to understand that not all religious people behave or think like you two.



Oh, I sure thought you made this statement...

"The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so."



BTW...I am not a Christian and have never claimed to be.


I am not judging your purpose in life and whether you will have an eternity in Heaven or Hell, I am making the statement that your views disgust me, just like any racist disgust me.


Your views disgust me. It is really low to try to bring racism into this. What has that got to do with this?

Oh I know...you don't have anything else.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
@ jankinonya...



quote:
I taught my son's to respect others rights to live their lives as they choose.



Tell me then...why can't I live my life as I want?

As for the rest of your homosexual support...your sons just may not be all you think...you are who you associate with.


No one is stopping you from living your life as you want.....unless that means taking rights away from other American's. Then we got a problem.

My sons are wonderful men. I am proud of them in every way. If they had been homosexual that would have been fine with me. They know that and would have no reason to hide it from me. You don't catch homosexuality like a cold for goodness sake. If so we all would be. I am sure even you have came in contact with one in your life time, whether you knew it or not. What about yours...do you think with the attitude you have towards people who are different (or so you say) than you that your daughters would feel they could tell you something like "I am a lesbian"..? I seriously doubt it.


My daughters are well aware of how the life cycle works.

Since you are so interested in rights...what happened to my right to live a life free of sexual perversion and perverted sexual influence perpetrated by the govt.
Originally posted by WH:
quote:


Absolutely laughable. Your morals are determined by what someone else says? I make my own decisions, no one tells me how I should think.


no, my morals are as i choose them. to pretend that nothing or no one has any influence on my view of morality is just silly. surely you aren't suggesting that you came out of the womb with a pre set conception of right and wrong and that it never changed as you grew. then again, that might explain a few things about you.

quote:
sorry. was just going on the things you've posted and the way you've phrased things in the past. perhaps i was wrong.

Actually, you got caught being dishonest. The quote feature is alive and well.


did i? how is that? i made a presumpton and then apologized for it. this is dishonest how?



quote:

Well you were the one that brought God and the bible into this, not me. I could care less what the bible says...why you keep referring to this is beyond me.


another mistaken assumption on my part, i guess. generally when someone is as vehmently anti-gay as you are, it's typical for them to say 'but the bible tells us to hate ***s!'
of course, it's also typical for the person arguing with them to pull out the old ' well, the reason you hate them so muc his because you're gay and can't admit it even to yourself, so you overcompensate with hatred."
but i'm not going there. i don't go there. i don't understand why in this day it isn't possible to just be a hetro male. your either gay, afraid that your gay so you end up a homophobe, or closeted gay and tryign to cover your tracks so people don't find out.
i don't think you're secretly gay. i do think you're oddly obsessed with gay men, but that doesn't make you gay, it just makes you weird.
i apologized for assuming your feelings towards homosexuality were based on the bible.

quote:

Yes thenagel...you are supporting homosexuality. I have never seen a liberal that would admit what they are doing. Why do you think you have a right to condemn me for my views?


i see. so because i don't condemn homosexuality, i support it? i'm either with you or against you, with no room for a middle ground?
i reject that as stupid. i'm also not a liberal. neither am i conservative. or rather, i'm a little of both.
i don't condemn you for your views. your views condemn you as an ignorant fear-monger. 60 years ago there were many people exactly like you, but then they were the ones putting the signs that said 'whites only' in their shop windows. they did it because they KNEW ' the colored' were the downfall of american society. today, that's all a thing of the past (except for a few pathetic holdouts) and the new target of fear and hate are the gays. eventually, that will be over as well, and we can start takeing steps towards real civilization.
eventually, a person will be judged for what they can offer and what they are capable of, and not for their color, their gender, or their partner.

quote:


Oh...I see...homosexuality IS NOT frowned upon in this country...is that what you think? You brought your son into this...not me. This statement from you is really the kicker...


i didn't say it wasn't.
and excuse me, but...

quote:

Posted 04 June 2010 07:24 PM
@ thenagel...


How does your son learn right from wrong?
Posts: 411 | Location: Huntsville Al. | Registered: 15 November 2009

yes, you most certainly did bring my son into this.


quote:



Why are trying to tell me how to live my life then? You my friend are a liberal hypocrite. Any time you feel like it you can retract the lie you have perpetrated on me with the "HATE" references. I doubt you are man enough to do that though.


i'm not trying to tell you how to do anything. i couldn't possibly care any less what you do or how you live. i'm not exactly sure how you could think that i was?
all i've said is that i won't be teaching my children the same messed up rules you taught yours. if that is telling you how to live your life, then so be it.
how can i retract anything, when your words prove what you claim to be a lie?

ok. i'm tired of this, and tired of you. i've laughed at your posts before, but until now i never realized what a tired old joke you were.
quote:
Originally posted by WH:


Yes thenagel...you are supporting homosexuality. I have never seen a liberal that would admit what they are doing. Why do you think you have a right to condemn me for my views?


It's your lucky day!!! I'm a liberal and I freely admit to supporting homosexuality! Woohoo! Now you can check that off you list of "nevers"

As for condemning you for your views.. That is our right as American citizens. You seem to have no problem condemning homosexuals as is your right too. No one is trying to force you into a homosexual life style for goodness sake.



Why are trying to tell me how to live my life then? You my friend are a liberal hypocrite. Any time you feel like it you can retract the lie you have perpetrated on me with the "HATE" references. I doubt you are man enough to do that though.[/QUOTE]

Please show us how anyone tried to tell you how to live your life? As far as I have read you were the only one telling me and thenagel that our children would somehow suffer if we did not teach them to think as you did. Oh yeah and the "hate reference has already been addressed. Thenagel told you a few post back that if he had misinterpreted your post then he was in fact wrong. Get over it. However I will say and I will not retract that you are obviously a bigot. You have yet to tell us why you think its any of your business or concern if 2 consenting adults have sex. Regardless of their gender. So far you have said its not because of religion or the constitution only that it somehow bothers you that men have sex with men. Why? Its their right as Americans to love who ever they want. I feel compelled to say as long as they are consenting adults due to the fact that you keep trying to equate child molesters to homosexual men. One has a victim the other has fun....not the same thing by a long shot.

You can think whatever you want to about this it really doesn't matter. This country will soon make it legal for gays to marry and they already have all other rights that you and I have so regardless of your opinion it just really doesn't matter. I guess what I am saying is, think how you want, live how you want, believe what ever you want just don't try and take away others rights to do so or else I and many others will be there to defend them.

Now you can go back to thinking about men entering other men.........its your right. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by WH:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
You beat me to it Jank.

That 'child molester' is a pedophile. A pedophile is NOT a rational thinking individual. A pedophile may be heterosexual as well as homosexual.


What would I say to one? 50 years, no parole.

As for the case of homosexuals, WH, you and Bill make a great pair. You judge them, pass sentence and hang them all in one swoop. Then you brag about how great a Christian you are.


You're enough to make a Christian feel disgusted. I can only pray for people to understand that not all religious people behave or think like you two.



Oh, I sure thought you made this statement...

"The Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't judge and I don't pretend to have the authority to do so."



BTW...I am not a Christian and have never claimed to be.


I am not judging your purpose in life and whether you will have an eternity in Heaven or Hell, I am making the statement that your views disgust me, just like any racist disgust me.


Your views disgust me. It is really low to try to bring racism into this. What has that got to do with this?

Oh I know...you don't have anything else.


OK, I should have said discrimination, but its the same thing. You hate an entire group of people based on an arbitrary point. You hate all homosexuals, regardless of who they are. Same as racism or any other form of discrimination. I'm glad my views disgust you, that shows me that I'm doing the right thing. If you agreed, I would have to do a whole of rethinking.

Enjoy your life and stop trying to dictate to others.
@ B50M


quote:
OK, I should have said discrimination, but its the same thing. You hate an entire group of people based on an arbitrary point. You hate all homosexuals, regardless of who they are. Same as racism or any other form of discrimination. I'm glad my views disgust you, that shows me that I'm doing the right thing. If you agreed, I would have to do a whole of rethinking.

Enjoy your life and stop trying to dictate to others.


Why must you insist that I hate homosexuals? I have stated several times in this thread that is not the case. Are you always this dishonest?
@ jankinonya...

I must admit you had me fooled . I now see that you are a homosexual.

After reading some of your other postings and seeing how you are bigoted against Christians, it is all coming together now. I am used to homosexuals using some pretty underhanded tricks.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Oh...I see...homosexuality IS NOT frowned upon in this country...is that what you think?



Well, black people are frown upon in this nation, too by ignorant people. Your point is?


Sofa King you are too funny. Come back when your intellect matures.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Just read the link. Lots of 'certifiable' research in that. No mention of anyone using condoms. AIDS came from monkeys. Want to take a stab at that one WH?

Hi B50,

Ground zero for AIDS, i.e., the first recognized, known, and recorded case of AIDS was a European Male Flight Attendant (I believe he was from the Netherlands) who was frequenting gay bars and bath houses in San Francisco. This is well documented.

Now, he may have played with monkeys in his travels -- but, he is the Ground Zero AIDS case for medical purposes.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Try again Bill.


What type of virus is HIV?

HIV is a lentivirus, and like all viruses of this type, it attacks the immune system. Lentiviruses are in turn part of a larger group of viruses known as retroviruses. The name 'lentivirus' literally means 'slow virus' because they take such a long time to produce any adverse effects in the body. They have been found in a number of different animals, including cats, sheep, horses and cattle. However, the most interesting lentivirus in terms of the investigation into the origins of HIV is the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV) that affects monkeys.
So did HIV come from an SIV?
It is now thought that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees.

It is now generally accepted that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus because certain strains of SIVs bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV.

HIV-2 for example corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the sooty mangabey (also known as the White-collared monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa.

The more virulent, pandemic strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, was until recently more difficult to place. Until 1999, the closest counterpart that had been identified was SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. However, this virus still had certain significant differences from HIV.


Rumor has it the Chimpanzee was a willing partner though... Big Grin
Hi B50,

You are right. This article does indeed show that the HIV virus did originate from monkeys and chimps:

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The Origin Of AIDS And HIV -- And The First Cases of AIDS
http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

The origin of AIDS and HIV has puzzled scientists ever since the illness first came to light in the early 1980s. For over twenty years it has been the subject of fierce debate and the cause of countless arguments, with everything from a promiscuous flight attendant to a suspect vaccine programme being blamed. So what is the truth? Just where did AIDS come from?

The first recognised cases of AIDS occurred in the USA in the early 1980s (more about this period can be found on our History of AIDS page). A number of gay men in New York and California suddenly began to develop rare opportunistic infections and cancers that seemed stubbornly resistant to any treatment. At this time, AIDS did not yet have a name, but it quickly became obvious that all the men were suffering from a common syndrome.

The discovery of HIV, the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, was made soon after. While some were initially resistant to acknowledge the connection (and indeed some remain so today), there is now clear evidence to prove that HIV causes AIDS. So, in order to find the source of AIDS, it is necessary to look for the origin of HIV, and find out how, when and where HIV first began to cause disease in humans.

What happened in 1999?

In February 1999 a group of researchers from the University of Alabama announced that they had found a type of SIVcpz that was almost identical to HIV-1. This particular strain was identified in a frozen sample taken from a captive member of the sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes troglodytes (P. t. troglodytes), which were once common in west-central Africa.

The researchers (led by Paul Sharp of Nottingham University and Beatrice Hahn of the University of Alabama) made the discovery during the course of a 10-year long study into the origins of the virus. They claimed that this sample proved that chimpanzees were the source of HIV-1, and that the virus had at some point crossed species from chimps to humans.

Their final findings were published two years later in Nature magazine2. In this article, they concluded that wild chimps had been infected simultaneously with two different simian immunodeficiency viruses which had "viral sex" to form a third virus that could be passed on to other chimps and, more significantly, was capable of infecting humans and causing AIDS.

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My original understanding of the origin seems to have come from early reporting which was not altogether accurate, as shown in thie article:

History Of AIDS: 1987-1992
http://www.avert.org/aids-history87-92.htm

In the autumn, a book by Randy Shilts called "And the Band Played On'"was published, which chronicled the early years of the AIDS epidemic.35 Shilts' book made an important contribution to documenting the history of AIDS, but his view of "the facts about AIDS," as well as his opinions, differ greatly from others on a number of occasions.

Shilts was the first to identify a French-Canadian flight attendant called Gaetan Dugas as "Patient Zero." Shilts claimed that Gaetan Dugas played a key role in the early spread of AIDS in America, and the story of "Patient Zero" was widely publicised by the media. But there never was a Patient Zero.

"There's no Patient Zero. It's lots and lots people moving around from New York to San Francisco, and the rest of the world. If there ever was an original Patient Zero, it would have been back in the mid-Seventies. But there isn't an original Patient Zero." -- Andrew Moss Quote from "The AIDS Epidemic in San Francisco: the medical response, 1981-1984," Volume II, an oral history conducted 1992, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 1996

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God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
I am used to homosexuals using some pretty underhanded tricks.


My, my ,this is a pretty interesting statement from someone who is NOT bigoted against homosexuality.
In my lifetime, I have noted some widespread heterosexual lies/adultery/perversion and disgusting behavior too. Are you saying homosexuals are more akin to be "deceitful".

PS- And Sofa was making a smart statement, by the way- uneducated/stupid people also consider black people to be "looked down" upon. ALL men are created equal. Some folks just don't understand the meaning of EQUAL.
quote:
My, my ,this is a pretty interesting statement from someone who is NOT bigoted against homosexuality.
In my lifetime, I have noted some widespread heterosexual lies/adultery/perversion and disgusting behavior too. Are you saying homosexuals are more akin to be "deceitful".




Did I say homosexuals are more deceitful? Just read what I say...don't change what I say to fit your agenda.


quote:
PS- And Sofa was making a smart statement, by the way- uneducated/stupid people also consider black people to be "looked down" upon. ALL men are created equal. Some folks just don't understand the meaning of EQUAL.



Your statement is stupid and uneducated. Racists come in all shapes and forms, not just the stupid and uneducated. Sofa King is trying to tie homosexuality in with racism...that is very unfair to people that have been discriminated against because of the color of their skin. This is one of those "underhanded" techniques I referred to.


Why are you trying to violate my constitutional right to speak my opinion?

You my friend are a bigot against people like me that believe in the family.
Discrimination against gay people is akin to racism. African Americans were (and are) discriminated against because of the color of their skin, something they cannot do anything about. I know the homophobes on here do not believe it, but you are either gay or you are not and there isn't a thing you can do to change who you are. So essentially, gays are discriminated against by being born that way.
Sorry I'm late replying, internet has been up and down like a yoyo.

Bill, thank you for realizing your error. Since we are now on the same page and the AIDS virus did come from chimps, that would throw out that 'God did it to punish homosexuals'.

WH, you have likened homosexuals to child molesters, and people who engaged in bestiality. I would say that shows a distinct hatred.

You may speak out all you want to, just remember we all have that same right to comment back.
quote:
Did I say homosexuals are more deceitful? Just read what I say...don't change what I say to fit your agenda.


What you said was:

quote:
I am used to homosexuals using some pretty underhanded tricks.

what did you mean by that?
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, thank you for realizing your error. Since we are now on the same page and the AIDS virus did come from chimps, that would throw out that 'God did it to punish homosexuals'.

Hi B50,

I have never believed that God punishes people for being gay. Through the effects of our own sins; we punish ourselves. If I were a non-believer who took drugs or got drunk -- and, because of this action I have an accident and am maimed; this is not God punishing me, this is my own action causing me harm. Yet, if I then become a believer -- I am forgiven -- but, I am still a maimed believer.

God does not punish anyone for being gay. However, a person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle cannot be a Christian -- for the two are polar opposites. A person can fool himself into believing he is living a Christian life; but, he is not. A person can find churches which will tell him his homosexual lifestyle if okay with God -- but, that church and its leaders are misleading this person.

Gay theologians will attempt to rewrite the Genesis account of Sodom saying that their sin is really being inhospitable -- but, that theologian is lying to himself and to all who follow him.

Just as a Christian believer cannot be possessed by demonic spirit; a Christian believer cannot live a homosexual lifestyle.

The person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle is punishing himself by denying Jesus Christ and by not being born again. As Jesus Christ tells us in John 3:3, "You must be born again to see the kingdom of God" -- and a person living a homosexual lifestyle is not born again.

Therefore, he is bringing a self imposed condemnation, i.e., punishment upon himself. He is punishing himself by condemning himself to live eternally with Satan, rather than living eternally with God.

Yet, up until that last breath -- that self imposed punishment can be reversed if this person will sincerely turn from the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ, i.e., repent and believe. But, one must pray that this last breath does not come unexpectedly -- before this person has a chance to repent and believe.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by David L.:
Discrimination against gay people is akin to racism. African Americans were (and are) discriminated against because of the color of their skin, something they cannot do anything about. I know the homophobes on here do not believe it, but you are either gay or you are not and there isn't a thing you can do to change who you are. So essentially, gays are discriminated against by being born that way.



Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Sorry I'm late replying, internet has been up and down like a yoyo.

Bill, thank you for realizing your error. Since we are now on the same page and the AIDS virus did come from chimps, that would throw out that 'God did it to punish homosexuals'.

WH, you have likened homosexuals to child molesters, and people who engaged in bestiality. I would say that shows a distinct hatred.

You may speak out all you want to, just remember we all have that same right to comment back.



All three...child molester, bestiality and homosexual are all form of sexual perversion. That is a fact. Why must you insist there is hate involved?


Trust me...I WILL speak out all I want... Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
Did I say homosexuals are more deceitful? Just read what I say...don't change what I say to fit your agenda.


What you said was:

quote:
I am used to homosexuals using some pretty underhanded tricks.

what did you mean by that?



No time for teaching basic reading comprehension...try again in a year or two.

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