Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion "Fundamentalism and Moderates" begun by our atheist Friend, Deep, before his most recent banning from the TimesDaily Religion Forum -- and in a recent resurrection of this discussion by Jeeping; the subject of the days of Creation surfaced. In the course of this discussion, we have tiptoed through the time of the Creation, i.e., billions of years versus thousands of years. Then, someone tossed in the Gap Theory; a Liberal attempt to make God fit science. And, then, in Jeeping's recent revival, on to the actual days of Creation: Lunar days -- or periods of millions of years?

At this point, I suggested:

The Hebrew word for "day" is "yom" or "yohm" -- and the Greek word for "day" is "hemera." The word "day" -- in both Hebrew and Greek combined -- occurs 1741 times in 1541 verses in the KJV Bible. Of those instances, at least 80% or better refer to a lunar day, i.e, a 24 hour day. There are time when day does refer to a period of time; but, the great majority of the time, it refers to a lunar day.

Now, since we all know that God is capable of creating anything He desires in an instant, in the blink of an eye; the fact that He took six lunar days must have a significance.

God created the heavens and the earth, and all within this universe, including us -- in six lunar days and then He rested on the seventh. This is our model -- that we are to work six days and take a day of rest. The same with our domestic animals used for farming, etc. -- word six days and a day of rest.

Land produces more abundantly if it is planted for six years -- and allowed to lay fallow, uncultivated, during the seventh year.

Yes, God is pretty smart. But, He knew that we humans are not so much -- so, He set down guidelines -- both in His workings and in His Written Word, the Bible. All we have to do is to follow Him and His divine guidelines.

And, my Friend, Barbaro, responds, "I think if would be extremely arrogant for any of us, including Bill, to think we have an idea of how, when, and how much time it took, to create the earth.....it hurts my head to even think about it..."

And, Sofa chimes in with, "Science has a very good understanding of this verified through the convergence of multiple lines of evidence including geologic, cosmological, astronomical, molecular, radiometric, and a dozen other disciplines. It is simply incredible that we will have people living today in this electronic world that still accept the ramblings of the ancient wise men as literal truth. Bill, God gave us the ability to discern His creation through science. Denying science is to deny His gift to you. Willful ignorance just has to be a sin."

Sofa, my Friend, you have listed a number of fields or disciplines of science; but, the one thing you neglected to tell us is that all of these sciences, and all other sciences -- are subsets of Creation. When "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) -- that Creation included the complete spectrum of science and all the laws governing the sciences.

You tell us, "It is simply incredible that we will have people living today in this electronic world that still accept the ramblings of the ancient wise men as literal truth."

Not really incredible when one considers that the most Ancient and Wise, the One who authored all the writings in the Bible which you so frivolously denigrate -- is God Himself. Keep in mind that God is omniscient (all knowing), omnipotent (all powerful), and omnipresent (everywhere present) -- and, that He never has to say, "Oops!" And, this amazing "electronic world" -- guess who gave us the knowledge to create it? Yep! You guess it! GOD!

Then, you tell us, "Bill, God gave us the ability to discern His creation through science. Denying science is to deny His gift to you. Willful ignorance just has to be a sin."

Let's break this down. First, "Bill, God gave us the ability to discern His creation through science."

That is true. But, limiting His Creation to the unfinished fields of science -- is analogous to trying to define the miracle of conception and birth -- by examining the birth control pill.

Then, "Denying science is to deny His gift to you."

Who is denying science? We are merely putting science in its proper perspective, a subset of Creation. I have spent my entire adult working life in the computer field. I began working on computers when they were built from vacuum tubes. If you do not know what a vacuum tube is; ask your grandparents or some other mature person. I worked on and with computers through the vacuum tube era, the transistor era, the integrated circuit era, the VLSI (very large scale integrated circuit) era -- I was teaching seminars and courses on microcomputers before there were such things as PCs (personal computers) and Apples/MACs.

So, I would say that the world of science has been good to me -- and I have great respect for science -- and enjoy studying it. And, I thank God for all the science breakthroughs He has given us.

With all that said -- yes, the Creation was six lunar (24 hours) days -- and God rested on the seventh. If you will go back and study Genesis you will notice that for each of the six days of Creation, each always ends with, "And there was evening and there was morning, the Xth day." But, for the seventh day, this does not occur. Why? Do you suppose it is because we are still in God's day of rest -- and will be until He has finished His intended purpose -- that of bringing all who will, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ; into eternal fellowship with Himself.

I am counted in that eternal fellowship. Are you? As long as your are still breathing on this earth -- it is not to late to accept your "free" ticket on that Glory Train. After you last breath here; your eternal destination is set in concrete. God never has to say, "Oops!" -- but, after this life, He will never say, "Try again!"

But, let me emphasize one more time; we are not saved by what we believe about the Creation; nor how many years we believe it took God to accomplish His masterpiece. We are not saved by what we believe about the End Times, nor how we view baptism, etc.

We are saved -- by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING else (Ephesians 2:8-9). All the other issues we can discuss, we can debate -- but, we should be willing to occasionally agree to disagree. We should NEVER allow these issues to become divisive among Christian believers.

I will end by saying that Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- is the foundation stone of our Bible. If this is not true; how can we believe anything else in the Bible? And, that is exactly why the atheists will fight so hard to disprove the act of Creation.

And, John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1) -- is the foundation stone of our Christian faith. If this is not true, if Jesus Christ is not deity, if Jesus Christ is not God -- then none of us have a hope. And, that is exactly why the atheists will fight so hard to deny God and to deny Jesus Christ. This is Satan's futile attempt to defeat Christ.

To close the Biblical parenthetical declaration -- we have Revelation 22:13, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." and in Revelation 22:20, "He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

So, my Friends, let's discuss all the Biblical issues; let's enjoy occasionally butting heads over issues; let's present our positions and allow others to present theirs; let's agree or refute those positions -- for these type discussions, which I liken to a good Bible study, will help us all grow and mature in our knowledge of God's Word. But, let us never allow these discussions to become divisive among Christian brothers and sisters. And, let's encourage our non-believing Friends to join our discussions -- for we never know which small seed may grow into eternal salvation for just one more person.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Photos (1)
Original Post
quote:
We are saved -- by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING else (Ephesians 2:8-9). All the other issues we can discuss, we can debate -- but, we should be willing to occasionally agree to disagree. We should NEVER allow these issues to become divisive among Christian believers.



Thank you for answering the question. I had to reread your post, at first I thought you were accusing me of arguing just to be arguing, but once I reread it I understood you were recapping the other topic.

Your interpretation of Genesis makes sense and, while I am not quite ready to look at it exactly as you, I do see the thought behind your belief in Lunar days.

I quoted you above, a quote I really thought to be the best part of your post. we should be willing to occasionally agree to disagree. Too often people get caught up in the 'thats not what I believe' mentality and cannot open themselves up to (at least) listen to others. My biggest issue personally is that I have a problem telling someone else that their belief is wrong. I've never though of it as being my place to critisize someone for their religious beliefs just because they are not the same as my own. That is the only downfall of 'debating' this topic. It is so much worse than politics because you usually are not successful in swaying folks to believe as you do, so the debate quickly becomes an argument because no one is listening to anyone else. But, as I have heard many times before, there is victory in just one person won. So I guess I have to take my hat off to the people that can go out there and stick to their convictions, whatever they might be ;o)

Jeepin
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
We are saved -- by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING else (Ephesians 2:8-9). All the other issues we can discuss, we can debate -- but, we should be willing to occasionally agree to disagree. We should NEVER allow these issues to become divisive among Christian believers.

Thank you for answering the question. I had to reread your post, at first I thought you were accusing me of arguing just to be arguing, but once I reread it I understood you were recapping the other topic.

Your interpretation of Genesis makes sense and, while I am not quite ready to look at it exactly as you, I do see the thought behind your belief in Lunar days.

I quoted you above, a quote I really thought to be the best part of your post. we should be willing to occasionally agree to disagree. Too often people get caught up in the 'that's not what I believe' mentality and cannot open themselves up to (at least) listen to others. My biggest issue personally is that I have a problem telling someone else that their belief is wrong. I've never though of it as being my place to criticize someone for their religious beliefs just because they are not the same as my own. That is the only downfall of 'debating' this topic. It is so much worse than politics because you usually are not successful in swaying folks to believe as you do, so the debate quickly becomes an argument because no one is listening to anyone else. But, as I have heard many times before, there is victory in just one person won. So I guess I have to take my hat off to the people that can go out there and stick to their convictions, whatever they might be . Jeepin

Hi Jeepin,

While I never want to "argue" politics or religion -- you are right that there are times when me must speak up. I agree that it is difficult to tell someone they are wrong about religion or Christianity. And, if it is just a matter of non-essential doctrines, i.e, how a person is to be baptized; whether a church should have music or not; whether a person should speak in tongues; etc. -- it is best to not tell them if we believe they are wrong; for in their faith, they are not wrong.

However, if it is an Essential Christian Doctrine: the deity of Jesus Christ, the Bible as the Word of God, the Trinity, etc. -- then, if a person is walking the wrong path, it is our duty to tell him/her.

And, on the Religion Forum, when an atheists or non-believer is sharing their non-Christian faith; it is our duty to refute their teachings. Not that we will change their minds, although God has done greater miracles; but, because of the others reading the Religion Forum. There are now over 10,000 registered members on the TimesDaily Forums -- and only God knows how many who do not register, but come to read what is written. If we allow even one of those to be misled -- or to be led away from God; that loss is upon our shoulders.

Do all 10,000 plus members and the unknown number of non-member readers ALL read the Religion Forum? No. However, I am sure that many do at least take a peak at what we write here. We owe it to them to make sure that the true Word of God is presented, to the best of our abilities.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Photos (1)
This train will not stop at Jamaica. This train will stop in Patchauge to switch from diesel to electric engines. This train will not stop in Queens County. This train will not stop in Nassau County. This is a direct Southshore Line Train to Gare Crazytown.
quote:
Originally posted by Aude Sapere:
This train will not stop at Jamaica. This train will stop in Patchauge to switch from diesel to electric engines. This train will not stop in Queens County. This train will not stop in Nassau County. This is a direct Southshore Line Train to Gare Crazytown.

THEN, THERE ARE SOME WHO WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT -- THEY FORGOT TO ACCEPT THEIR "FREE TICKET" WHEN THE LORD OFFERED IT!"

Attachments

Photos (1)

Add Reply

Likes (0)

×
×
×
×