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I would like to know your thoughts on this? I am not sure what to believe on this.


Going to Heaven
For countless centuries many ‘believers’ have been comforted by the teaching that when they die their ‘immortal souls’ go to heaven. We know that the Bible teaches that no one has an immortal soul, or any spark of immortality and that no one goes to heaven and nor does any part of them, neither their body or what folk think is their soul.

HOW DID THE HEAVEN GOING ‘THEORY’ DEVELOP?

When the Lord, as a preamble to His Sermon on the Mount, recited what has become known as the ‘beatitudes’, He said to the disciples, in Matt. 5:10… "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven". Then in verse 12 He adds.. "Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN."

When death stares a person ‘in the face’ so to speak, it is an enormous comfort to have those words repeated to them or used at a funeral and it is quite usual to hear an officiating Parson claim that because the Lord Jesus promised the ‘reward in heaven’, then we can be assured that the ’immortal soul’ of the person being buried has already found its way to heaven and no doubt is looking down on the funeral ceremony. That the Bible does not teach such simplistic ideas never occurs to many who hear them. Not only so, in the years of the writer of this pamphlet, never once have I heard a Parson say that the soul of even a terribly wicked person has gone anywhere else but to heaven.

Many present day Christians are under the impression that their ‘immortal soul’ goes straight to heaven at death and there it praises the Father for all time.

However, a study of the Scriptures shows that the disciples and Apostles believed the teachings of their Scriptures, that all life and memory and thoughts ceased at death and man went back to the ground, from which he was created in the first place and the breath of life given to him at his birth, went back to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

WHAT THEN IS THE STATE OF MANKIND IN DEATH?

The beliefs of the Christian Church developed from the beliefs of the Jews, many of whom formed the basis of the early Church. The Jews of the days of the Lord Jesus learnt their beliefs from the Old Testament and thus you find no arguments against the teachings of Jesus on the important matter of the death state. Their belief was that before the child breathes at birth it is a dead soul but immediately God gives the child the breath of life it becomes a "living soul" (Hebrew is Nephesh= ‘a breathing creature’ Gen 2:7). It can only be obvious that when that person dies the situation is reversed… it becomes a dead soul, or person, as it was before the breath of life came into its nostrils. King Solomon wisely pointed out , "The living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything" (Ecc 9:5)

The Jews of every century since the times of King David, have always revered this wonderful King of Israel and his teachings in the Psalms. In Psalm 104, David speaks of many of the living things the Father created and he says, (V.30), "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" and in V.29, "Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust."

In Psalm 6:5, the great King David relates death to the grave and writes.. "In death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Obviously King David’s perception of death was simply that of which he spoke in Psalm 115:17, "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence (the grave)" Surely if David was indeed a ‘man after God’s own heart’, he would know the truth about death and ‘life after death’. He did…..his view of death was very clear and is expressed in Psalm 146:4, "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day his thoughts perish." These simple truths show clearly that when man dies he goes back to the ground to silence, not to heaven to praise God. The Apostle John made sure we learn of this by writing, "No man hath ascended up to heaven" (John 3:13).

The Apostle Peter preaching on the Day of Pentecost with the Disciples, plainly declares… "David is both dead and buried and his sepulchre is with us unto this day…..David is NOT ASCENDED into the heavens.".(Acts 2:29,34) Peter was saying that David’s bones were still in the sepulchre in Israel and that NO part of him was in heaven.

DOES ANY PART OF MAN GO TO HEAVEN AT DEATH?

Solomon tells us that the only part of man that ‘goes to heaven’ at death, or, to the Father, is the breath of life He gives us in the first place. "The Spirit ( Heb ruwach= breath) shall return to God who gave it" (Ecc. 12:7)

The Bible says nothing about Abraham going to heaven…Gen.25:8 says "he was gathered to his people"…where were they? In the same place as he was…in the grave, certainly NOT in heaven. Gen. 35:29 says the same about Isaac and Gen 49:33 the same about Jacob. Like David they all went to the grave and David said, " O God…thou shalt quicken me again and bring me UP AGAIN FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE EARTH"( Psalm 71:20). Surely if David thought he was going to heaven he would have asked God to bring him down, NOT UP!

The prophet Daniel apparently did not believe people went to heaven at death ….he believed people were in the grave and said.. "Many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth, shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan. 12:2)

The Apostle Paul did not teach that people had immortal souls, which would go to heaven praising the Father eternally. No, he said that when the Trumpet blows at Christ’s return, "this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Cor.15:53), showing that no man or woman possesses any spark of immortality…no immortal soul dwelling in heaven, in other words.

The Apostle John apparently did not believe that the "saved’ went to heaven either, for he wrote the following words of Jesus… "No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me, draw him; and I will RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY." (John 6:44). Why would Jesus say He would RAISE people UP, if they were in heaven. Obviously He did not teach they would be in heaven, but rather, in the grave, from which they would be raised.

One of the last messages of hope the Lord Jesus left was, "Behold I come quickly and my reward (eternal life) is with me to give every man according as his works shall be." (Rev 22:12). If a person is in heaven enjoying the reward of immortality, what is the use of the second coming of the Lord Jesus and the resurrection of the body? The simple truth is that no part of man goes to heaven…he sleeps in the grave until called forth by the Lord Jesus, as he did when He resurrected Lazarus. Lazarus ‘slept’ in the grave, not heaven (John 11:11).

http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/aboutman/goingtoheaven.asp
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Hell and the Grave
"For You will not leave my SOUL IN SHEOL (Hell in the Authorised Version), nor will You allow Your Holy One to see CORRUPTION." Psalm 16:10

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my BED IN HELL behold, You are there." Psalm 139:8

'Hell' is not a translation
'Hell' is not a translation. It is a word that has been inserted by translators into the Bible because of their preconceived ideas about a place of eternal torment. This idea is fast losing ground today as modern translators realise that Hebrew words like 'sheol', simply meant the grave to the original inspired writers of the Scriptures. The translators are still very shy though, and in many instances have left the word 'sheol' untranslated in modern Bible versions. This is because they can see that this word obviously means 'the grave' and not the traditional meaning. Rather than admit this though, and the folly of using the inserted word 'hell' in the past, they have just left the Hebrew word 'sheol' untranslated many times, and left the readers to make up their own minds.

Comparing old and new translations
The following are two interesting examples of how translating has changed by comparing the King James Version (A.V.)and the New King James Version (N.K.J.V.) of Jonah 2:2, and Isaiah 4:14:

Jonah 2:2 A.V. - "out of the belly of HELL cried I" N.K.J.V. - "out of the belly of SHEOL I cried"

Isaiah 4:14 A.V. - "Therefore HELL hath enlarged herself" N.K.J.V. - "Therefore SHEOL has enlarged itself"

You will notice the same situation with Psalm 16:10 quoted as a key verse above.

'Gehenna' the rubbish tip
'Gehenna' or 'The valley of the son of Hinnom' which is what the Greek word means, was the rubbish tip outside of Jerusalem in the time of Jesus which was also used to burn the bodies of criminals who had suffered capital punishment. Most of the occurrences of the word 'hell' in the New Testament refer to this 'place of burning' outside of Jerusalem.

'Hades' the unseen
The word Hades comes from two words: 'A', which is 'Alpha', the first letter of the Greek alphabet and is a negative letter which simply means 'without'. The equivalent in English would be the word 'un'. The other word is 'eido' which means 'to see'. So 'Hades' simply means, 'unseen'. Is the 'hades' of the Bible the same place as that described in Greek Mythology? Websters Dictionary describes Hades as, "the grim god of the lower world dwelling in the abode of the dead conceived as either a dark and gloomy subterranean realm or a remote island beyond the western sea."

Consistent Bible teaching
If we can accept the words quoted from Psalm 16 which prophetically teach that Jesus went to 'sheol' (ie. the grave) when He died, then to be consistent with Bible teaching, we must accept that Peter meant the grave as well when He said that Jesus went to hades when he quotes Psalm 16 in Acts 2:27. Any other explanation would have Old Testament teaching contradicting the New Testament. The fact that the New Testament was written in Greek does not mean that we have to use Greek mythology to interpret Scripture. Today we use words like "lunatic", but this does not mean that we accept that somebody's mental health depends on the phases of the Moon.

Extra info and Bible references
'Hell' is a word that was added (interpolated) to our Bibles and is not a translation of the original language. When we see this word in scripture its true meaning is 'the grave' or 'the pit' in the Old Testament. In the New Testament this word is used with reference to the burning 'rubbish tip' that was outside of Jerusalem, known as 'the valley of the son of Hinnom' or 'gehenna'.

'sheol' in the Hebrew is interpolated 'hell' or translated 'grave' or 'pit' in the Old Testament. Psalm 6:5, 9:17, 30:3; Numbers 16:30,33

'hades' in the Greek is translated 'grave' or interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. 1Corinthians 15:55, Matthew11:21, 16:18

'gehenna' in the Greek is interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. Matthew 5:22, 23:15; Luke 12:5

All Scripture quoted is from the N.K.J.V.



http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/otherbibleteachings/hellandgrave.asp
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
PBA, you sure are confusing! But I think you get a high from it. Roll Eyes




I enjoy research and when I come arcoss something like this, it makes me wonder what other people think. Keep in mind that everything I post does not mean I agree with the post!! Some of my post is to get opinion or just see what folks think of the whatever that was posted. Does that help? Smiler
Posted 21 November 2007 09:53 PM Hide Post
Hell and the Grave
"For You will not leave my SOUL IN SHEOL (Hell in the Authorised Version), nor will You allow Your Holy One to see CORRUPTION." Psalm 16:10

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my BED IN HELL behold, You are there." Psalm 139:8

'Hell' is not a translation
'Hell' is not a translation. It is a word that has been inserted by translators into the Bible because of their preconceived ideas about a place of eternal torment. This idea is fast losing ground today as modern translators realise that Hebrew words like 'sheol', simply meant the grave to the original inspired writers of the Scriptures. The translators are still very shy though, and in many instances have left the word 'sheol' untranslated in modern Bible versions. This is because they can see that this word obviously means 'the grave' and not the traditional meaning. Rather than admit this though, and the folly of using the inserted word 'hell' in the past, they have just left the Hebrew word 'sheol' untranslated many times, and left the readers to make up their own minds.

Comparing old and new translations
The following are two interesting examples of how translating has changed by comparing the King James Version (A.V.)and the New King James Version (N.K.J.V.) of Jonah 2:2, and Isaiah 4:14:

Jonah 2:2 A.V. - "out of the belly of HELL cried I" N.K.J.V. - "out of the belly of SHEOL I cried"

Isaiah 4:14 A.V. - "Therefore HELL hath enlarged herself" N.K.J.V. - "Therefore SHEOL has enlarged itself"

You will notice the same situation with Psalm 16:10 quoted as a key verse above.

'Gehenna' the rubbish tip
'Gehenna' or 'The valley of the son of Hinnom' which is what the Greek word means, was the rubbish tip outside of Jerusalem in the time of Jesus which was also used to burn the bodies of criminals who had suffered capital punishment. Most of the occurrences of the word 'hell' in the New Testament refer to this 'place of burning' outside of Jerusalem.

'Hades' the unseen
The word Hades comes from two words: 'A', which is 'Alpha', the first letter of the Greek alphabet and is a negative letter which simply means 'without'. The equivalent in English would be the word 'un'. The other word is 'eido' which means 'to see'. So 'Hades' simply means, 'unseen'. Is the 'hades' of the Bible the same place as that described in Greek Mythology? Websters Dictionary describes Hades as, "the grim god of the lower world dwelling in the abode of the dead conceived as either a dark and gloomy subterranean realm or a remote island beyond the western sea."

Consistent Bible teaching
If we can accept the words quoted from Psalm 16 which prophetically teach that Jesus went to 'sheol' (ie. the grave) when He died, then to be consistent with Bible teaching, we must accept that Peter meant the grave as well when He said that Jesus went to hades when he quotes Psalm 16 in Acts 2:27. Any other explanation would have Old Testament teaching contradicting the New Testament. The fact that the New Testament was written in Greek does not mean that we have to use Greek mythology to interpret Scripture. Today we use words like "lunatic", but this does not mean that we accept that somebody's mental health depends on the phases of the Moon.

Extra info and Bible references
'Hell' is a word that was added (interpolated) to our Bibles and is not a translation of the original language. When we see this word in scripture its true meaning is 'the grave' or 'the pit' in the Old Testament. In the New Testament this word is used with reference to the burning 'rubbish tip' that was outside of Jerusalem, known as 'the valley of the son of Hinnom' or 'gehenna'.

'sheol' in the Hebrew is interpolated 'hell' or translated 'grave' or 'pit' in the Old Testament. Psalm 6:5, 9:17, 30:3; Numbers 16:30,33

'hades' in the Greek is translated 'grave' or interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. 1Corinthians 15:55, Matthew11:21, 16:18

'gehenna' in the Greek is interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. Matthew 5:22, 23:15; Luke 12:5

All Scripture quoted is from the N.K.J.V.



http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/otherbibleteachings/hellandgrave.asp

i meant that it made more sence than burning in hell like most people are told their whole life. if more people understood this,it would take away the power that most religion has over people...
I been to heaven...

I found that the 72 virgins were not all women

The beer was warm

The whiskey was young

There was no fishing allowed

Actual Sex was no longer in vogue as it once was....all they wanted to was talk about it...

There was a extra long distance charge to call back on my cell phone

The tobacco was uncured and had a imitation taste of cuban cigars

You have to enlist for a quite a long time...and I just did not won't to stay that long in one place...

The time share fees at the spa was a killer plus they no longer will take your debit card

Most of the music was reliqious in nature...with country music and Freddy Mercury music not allowed...

To much kneeling required...My knees became sore very quickly...

The portal pottie rent has gone from a quarter to .75 cents

Saw Jesus and God...they both had cotton sticking in their ears...said they were tired of hearing all of that praise on a continous bases

God asked Jesus to go back to earth for another tour of duty and he was found missing....later it was determined he had deserted to another universe....

They were asking for volunteers to play Jesus on earth...but there were no takers...everybody said they were allergic to wood and nails...

OH! Well! Where did that little devil say the beer was cold the women were h--?
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
Have any of you noticed how many newer members we have on here who think they know everything about everyone???

Would be nice if we all were as smart as the NEW PEOPLE, right???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Have any of you noticed how many newer members we have on here who think they know everything about everyone???

Would be nice if we all were as smart as the NEW PEOPLE, right???


KS, Hope you had a good Thanksgiving! I think that a lot of these new members are remakes from the oldies members of the past. They all have attacked me about what I post. I think I know some of them by the way they write.

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