https://www.foxnews.com/scienc...ns-of-ice-last-month

"A staggering 217 billion tons (197 billion metric tons) of meltwater flowed off of Greenland's ice sheet into the Atlantic Ocean this July. The worst day of melting was July 31, when 11 billion tons (10 billion metric tons) of melted ice poured into the ocean.

This massive thaw represents some of the worst melting since 2012, according to The Washington Post. That year, 97% of the Greenland ice sheet experienced melting. This year, so far, 56% of the ice sheet has melted, but temperatures — 15 to 20 degrees Fahrenheit above average — have been higher than during the 2012 heat wave. All told, this July's melt alone was enough to raise global average sea levels by 0.02 inches (0.5 millimeters), according to the Post."

 

--------------------------------

But don't worry - Anthropogenic Climate Change is just a vast science conspiracy.

Original Post
Jack Hammer posted:

I see where other parts of the globe have found additional ice,

it's all good.! 

Oh?  Where?

"A newly completed 40-y record of satellite observations is used to quantify changes in Antarctic sea ice coverage since the late 1970s. Sea ice spreads over vast areas and has major impacts on the rest of the climate system, reflecting solar radiation and restricting ocean/atmosphere exchanges. The satellite record reveals that a gradual, decades-long overall increase in Antarctic sea ice extents reversed in 2014, with subsequent rates of decrease in 2014–2017 far exceeding the more widely publicized decay rates experienced in the Arctic. The rapid decreases reduced the Antarctic sea ice extents to their lowest values in the 40-y record, both on a yearly average basis (record low in 2017) and on a monthly basis (record low in February 2017).?"

https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...lining-dramatically/

 

"In May, Chinese scientists said Tibetan glaciers had shrunk 15 percent - around 8,000 square km (3,100 square miles) - over the past 30 years."

https://www.scientificamerican...mest-in-2-000-years/

Preliminary data reported from the reference glaciers of the World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS) in 2018 from Argentina, Austria, China, France, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal, Norway, Russia, Sweden, Switzerland and United States indicate that 2018 will be the 30th consecutive year of significant negative annual balance (> -200mm); with a mean balance of -1247 mm for the 25 reporting reference glaciers, with only one glacier reporting a positive mass balance (WGMS, 2018).

http://www.realclimate.org/ind...ther-decade-of-loss/

---------------------------------------------------

But don't worry - it's only a vast science conspiracy.

Conspiracy theories and the Koch boys aren't needed, all one needs is soot from the industrial revolution and sunlight:

https://science.nasa.gov/scien...nasa/2013/03sep_soot

https://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=41854

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/g...3/1223blacksoot.html

Add the fact that in the last 40 years people in North America and Europe put scrubbers on most large smokestacks, the air has become clearer and the melt will increase.

 

Stanky posted:

Conspiracy theories and the Koch boys aren't needed, all one needs is soot from the industrial revolution and sunlight:

https://science.nasa.gov/scien...nasa/2013/03sep_soot

https://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=41854

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/g...3/1223blacksoot.html

Add the fact that in the last 40 years people in North America and Europe put scrubbers on most large smokestacks, the air has become clearer and the melt will increase.

 

I guess soot explains the hottest June on record

https://weather.com/news/clima...-2019-earths-warmest

and the hottest July on record

https://www.livescience.com/66...test-month-ever.html

 

OldSalt posted:
Stanky posted:

Conspiracy theories and the Koch boys aren't needed, all one needs is soot from the industrial revolution and sunlight:

https://science.nasa.gov/scien...nasa/2013/03sep_soot

https://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=41854

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/g...3/1223blacksoot.html

Add the fact that in the last 40 years people in North America and Europe put scrubbers on most large smokestacks, the air has become clearer and the melt will increase.

 

I guess soot explains the hottest June on record

https://weather.com/news/clima...-2019-earths-warmest

and the hottest July on record

https://www.livescience.com/66...test-month-ever.html

 

According to a climate scientist, the quality of that data might be in question:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/20...e-warmest-on-record/

Anyway, we weren't talking world temperatures; we were talking about melting glaciers. You don't believe NASA? And by the way, even NASA will spot increasing atmospheric clarity (aerosols) with a good chunk of global warming just like they gave melting glacial ice about 25% credit for the warming of the atmosphere last century.

Roy Spencer, the climate scientist with connections to big oil, like Exxon-Mobile, who's scientists knew about anthropogenic climate change in the '70s, then buried that knowledge and began a misinformation campaign?  Roy Spencer the climate scientist who has a history of " making serial mistakes that other scientists have been forced to uncover."

https://www.facingsouth.org/20...l-industry-ties.html

https://www.scientificamerican...almost-40-years-ago/

Sorry, that's no good.

Sure, I believe NASA.  Industrial soot no doubt has an impact on glacial melting.  But, it doesn't account for all of the melting.  Only a combination of increases in global temperature and the impact of soot can explain the world-wide retreat of glaciers.

"Scientists are also finding that glaciers reveal clues about global warming. How much does our atmosphere naturally warm up between Ice Ages? How does human activity affect climate? Because glaciers are so sensitive to temperature fluctuations accompanying climate change, direct glacier observation may help answer these questions. Since the early twentieth century, with few exceptions, glaciers around the world have been retreating at unprecedented rates. Some scientists attribute this massive glacial retreat to the Industrial Revolution, which began around 1760. In fact, several ice caps, glaciers and ice shelves have disappeared altogether in this century. Many more are retreating so rapidly that they may vanish within a matter of decades.

Scientists are discovering that production of electricity using coal and petroleum, and other uses of fossil fuels in transportation and industry, affects our environment in ways we did not understand before. Within the past 200 years or so, human activity has increased the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere by 40 percent, and other gases, such as methane (natural gas) by a factor of 2 to 3 or more. These gases absorb heat being radiated from the surface of the earth, and by absorbing this heat the atmosphere slowly warms up. Heat-trapping gases, sometimes called “greenhouse gases,” are the cause of most of the climate warming and glacier retreat in the past 50 years. However, related causes, such as increased dust and soot from grazing, farming, and burning of fossil fuels and forests, are also causing glacier retreat. In fact, it is likely that the earliest parts of the recent glacier retreats in Europe were caused by soot from coal burning in the late 1800s."

And, since it's my topic, I can take it anywhere related to the original post, thank you very much.

So, YOU don't believe NASA?

Climate Change: How Do We Know?

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

 

 

OldSalt posted:

Roy Spencer, the climate scientist with connections to big oil, like Exxon-Mobile, who's scientists knew about anthropogenic climate change in the '70s, then buried that knowledge and began a misinformation campaign?  Roy Spencer the climate scientist who has a history of " making serial mistakes that other scientists have been forced to uncover."

https://www.facingsouth.org/20...l-industry-ties.html

https://www.scientificamerican...almost-40-years-ago/

Sorry, that's no good.

Sure, I believe NASA.  Industrial soot no doubt has an impact on glacial melting.  But, it doesn't account for all of the melting.  Only a combination of increases in global temperature and the impact of soot can explain the world-wide retreat of glaciers.

"Scientists are also finding that glaciers reveal clues about global warming. How much does our atmosphere naturally warm up between Ice Ages? How does human activity affect climate? Because glaciers are so sensitive to temperature fluctuations accompanying climate change, direct glacier observation may help answer these questions. Since the early twentieth century, with few exceptions, glaciers around the world have been retreating at unprecedented rates. Some scientists attribute this massive glacial retreat to the Industrial Revolution, which began around 1760. In fact, several ice caps, glaciers and ice shelves have disappeared altogether in this century. Many more are retreating so rapidly that they may vanish within a matter of decades.

Scientists are discovering that production of electricity using coal and petroleum, and other uses of fossil fuels in transportation and industry, affects our environment in ways we did not understand before. Within the past 200 years or so, human activity has increased the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere by 40 percent, and other gases, such as methane (natural gas) by a factor of 2 to 3 or more. These gases absorb heat being radiated from the surface of the earth, and by absorbing this heat the atmosphere slowly warms up. Heat-trapping gases, sometimes called “greenhouse gases,” are the cause of most of the climate warming and glacier retreat in the past 50 years. However, related causes, such as increased dust and soot from grazing, farming, and burning of fossil fuels and forests, are also causing glacier retreat. In fact, it is likely that the earliest parts of the recent glacier retreats in Europe were caused by soot from coal burning in the late 1800s."

And, since it's my topic, I can take it anywhere related to the original post, thank you very much.

So, YOU don't believe NASA?

Climate Change: How Do We Know?

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

 

 

Ah, if NASA is to believed, then Dr.s Christy and Spencer should be believed because it's their tabulated data! Christy did err in forgetting to factor in orbital decay a couple of decades ago (corrected), but then again Dr. Hanson has been correcting his computer models as well attempting to yet produce a predictive model. Mebbe I should pull up a hit piece on him!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...-hansens-statistics/

As to accepting the notion that the computer model a true believer accepts as proof, it might be a good idea to first come up with a model that can predict actual correct temperatures.

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/clip_image0028.jpg

 

Jack Hammer posted:
Just watching how fast the melting is happening I have to believe the
Christmas tsunami and the after effects on the jet stream and the altered
direction of north has had an large impact on the weather.

About the magnetic pole drift, there has been some research.  From 2007:

"A proposed mechanism involves variations in the geometry of the geomagnetic field (f.i. tilt of the dipole to lower latitudes), resulting in enhanced cosmic-ray induced nucleation of clouds. No forcing factor, be it changes in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere or changes in cosmic ray flux modulated by solar activity and geomagnetism, or possibly other factors, can at present be neglected or shown to be the overwhelming single driver of climate change in past centuries. Intensive data acquisition is required to further probe indications that the Earth’s and Sun’s magnetic fields may have significant bearing on climate change at certain time scales."

https://www.fs.usda.gov/ccrc/library/biblio/485

And from 2018:

"Conclusions

We have applied for the first time a recent statistical tool, transfer entropy, to shed light on the question of a possible link between the Earth’s magnetic field and climate and provide new perspectives in its future analysis. In this work, we have analyzed two real time series with an analogous evolution for the last 300 years, the South Atlantic Anomaly area extent on the Earth’s surface and the Global Sea Level rise. We have analyzed the anomalies of both time series, after removing the long term trend. The results seem to support the existence of an information flow between SAA and GSL anomalies, with larger information transferred from SAA to GSL and a confidence level about 90%. The found connection does not mean that the geomagnetic field is fully responsible of the climate changes, rather that it is an important driving component to the variations of the climate. This result is especially relevant because could help to find a physical mechanism able to explain this connection by discarding those in which the climate controls the geomagnetic field and supporting the mechanisms associated to the geomagnetic field."

https://journals.plos.org/plos...journal.pone.0207270

 

Stanky posted:

 

 

 

Ah, if NASA is to believed, then Dr.s Christy and Spencer should be believed because it's their tabulated data! Christy did err in forgetting to factor in orbital decay a couple of decades ago (corrected), but then again Dr. Hanson has been correcting his computer models as well attempting to yet produce a predictive model. Mebbe I should pull up a hit piece on him!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...-hansens-statistics/

As to accepting the notion that the computer model a true believer accepts as proof, it might be a good idea to first come up with a model that can predict actual correct temperatures.

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/clip_image0028.jpg

 

Don't know where you got your graph, but here's another that shows a different story:

CMIP5 (circa 2011)

http://www.realclimate.org/images//cmp_cmip5_sat_ann-2.png

Last discussion (2015). Model spread is the 95% envelope of true global mean surface temperature anomalies from all CMIP5 historical simulations (using the RCP4.5 projection post-2005). Forcing adjustment is updated from Schmidt et al. (2014). Observations are the standard quasi-global estimates of anomalies with no adjustment for spatial coverage or the use of SST instead of SAT over the open ocean. Last updated 7 Feb 2019.

http://www.realclimate.org/ind...red-to-observations/

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