Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What did he lie about concerning the prayer before the ballgame? And who is shoalander? Is she/he employed?

_____________________________

 

Here ya go Best..

 

http://shoalandaspeaks.blogspo...-right-or-wrong.html

 

Shoalanda speaks is basically a local gossip rag. Some people in the community enjoy reading the "Enquirer" like blogs that are found there. Its not news by any stretch of the imagination. Just some busy body that likes to gossip and has made a (small) name for themselves by trying to ruin peoples lives and name in the area.

 

===

The stupid irony of a secretive and anonymous person (Shoalanda) attacking the personal life of a named person, based on what's written on a FB page. What any of that has to do with Constitutional violations, I haven't a clue. It's just a pure attempt at defamation and used as a loud warning to others in the community not to stand up for what's just and legal, or else.  We are all indebted (even Christians) to Mr. Green for his courage and conviction to do what's right.

 

The last time another friend of mine contacted the FFRF to complain about another illegal act in a Florence school and chose to remain anonymous, the complainant was often attacked (in online comments) as a gutless coward. Yet all the complainant was trying to do was protect the identity of their children from the kind of vile harassment and death threats that Mr. Green is currently being subjected to.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What did he lie about concerning the prayer before the ballgame? And who is shoalander? Is she/he employed?

_____________________________

 

Here ya go Best..

 

http://shoalandaspeaks.blogspo...-right-or-wrong.html

 

Shoalanda speaks is basically a local gossip rag. Some people in the community enjoy reading the "Enquirer" like blogs that are found there. Its not news by any stretch of the imagination. Just some busy body that likes to gossip and has made a (small) name for themselves by trying to ruin peoples lives and name in the area.

 

===

The stupid irony of a secretive and anonymous person (Shoalanda) attacking the personal life of a named person, based on what's written on a FB page. What any of that has to do with Constitutional violations, I haven't a clue. It's just a pure attempt at defamation and used as a loud warning to others in the community not to stand up for what's just and legal, or else.  We are all indebted (even Christians) to Mr. Green for his courage and conviction to do what's right.

 

The last time another friend of mine contacted the FFRF to complain about another illegal act in a Florence school and chose to remain anonymous, the complainant was often attacked (in online comments) as a gutless coward. Yet all the complainant was trying to do was protect the identity of their children from the kind of vile harassment and death threats that Mr. Green is currently being subjected to.

__________________________________

 

Good point A.R. Da mned if you do and da mned if you don't.

 

It is down right scary really. If you think differently or have a dis-belief in God in this area you face the real possibility of being not only ostracized but also physically threatened.

 

Where do we live again? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Oh no thats right, we live in the free democratic country of America. For a minute there I was unsure.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

LOL what is up the the copyright symbol on your post Crusty? I love it!

__________

Glad you asked, it is actually pertinent to the current discussion.  See my thread in Miscellaneous.

©

________________

 

Ok, I went, I read, I LOL! That is hilarious Crusty.  I really hate to even bring up SS because I hate to give that witch hunt of a blog the publicity. Apparently they can't come up with their own material so they have resorted to plagiarizing others. Not surprised really.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

LOL what is up the the copyright symbol on your post Crusty? I love it!

__________

Glad you asked, it is actually pertinent to the current discussion.  See my thread in Miscellaneous.

©

________________

 

Ok, I went, I read, I LOL! That is hilarious Crusty.  I really hate to even bring up SS because I hate to give that witch hunt of a blog the publicity. Apparently they can't come up with their own material so they have resorted to plagiarizing others. Not surprised really.

 

 

Dark, I do usually like your ideas even if I don't agree but that's twice tonight you've told an untruth. That's about as bad as claiming you work at Google. SS said it was quoting a forum member and that's not plagiarizing. You know as well as I do what plagiarizing is and that's not it. It's kinda funny that Crusty and SS think alike on the hospital thing, but he's unhappy over something else and won't give them credit for having a good blog. I've read todays and they say they'll be reviewing the Brooks people tomorrow. What are you going to do when they tear them apart? Change your mind real suddenly? Admit you were wrong?

best, I like you, but please don't twist my words. I mentioned he lived at home in reply to Lexum. I don't think Green is going anywhere because he needs money. The employment is not important. He could be a ditch digger. Just don't lie to me and say you work on Wall St. I'll think much more of you as an honest ditch digger than someone who lies to me about it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I didn't twist your words. I said they don't like the message so they want to "kill" the messenger. I also said it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of him, he's still right, and if people really wanted to dig into others lives like that I'm sure there is plenty of "dirt" to be found on them. And NO offense but I don't think there's anything mr. green could do to make you think more of him.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What did he lie about concerning the prayer before the ballgame? And who is shoalander? Is she/he employed?

_____________________________

 

Here ya go Best..

 

http://shoalandaspeaks.blogspo...-right-or-wrong.html

 

Shoalanda speaks is basically a local gossip rag. Some people in the community enjoy reading the "Enquirer" like blogs that are found there. Its not news by any stretch of the imagination. Just some busy body that likes to gossip and has made a (small) name for themselves by trying to ruin peoples lives and name in the area.

 

===

The stupid irony of a secretive and anonymous person (Shoalanda) attacking the personal life of a named person, based on what's written on a FB page. What any of that has to do with Constitutional violations, I haven't a clue. It's just a pure attempt at defamation and used as a loud warning to others in the community not to stand up for what's just and legal, or else.  We are all indebted (even Christians) to Mr. Green for his courage and conviction to do what's right.

 

The last time another friend of mine contacted the FFRF to complain about another illegal act in a Florence school and chose to remain anonymous, the complainant was often attacked (in online comments) as a gutless coward. Yet all the complainant was trying to do was protect the identity of their children from the kind of vile harassment and death threats that Mr. Green is currently being subjected to.


Pretty ironic that the very people who are staunchly protecting their right to yell prayers to God/Jesus over a PA system are harassing someone and threatening him with death

 

I am not saying at all that he is perfect (who is?) or that he is what I am using as an example, but a prostitute can be raped and a pickpocket can be mugged.  No matter who the person is or what level of society is an illegal act is still illegal and should be stopped.  I'm not saying he is anything of the sort, but attacking his character or what he does for a living (his point is legitimate) sounds pretty hateful and is irrelevant. I wonder what the same people would be saying if he would suing to pray somewhere or to put a Nativity set in the downtown park?  I would bet he would be a courageous Christian then.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What did he lie about concerning the prayer before the ballgame? And who is shoalander? Is she/he employed?

_____________________________

 

Here ya go Best..

 

http://shoalandaspeaks.blogspo...-right-or-wrong.html

 

Shoalanda speaks is basically a local gossip rag. Some people in the community enjoy reading the "Enquirer" like blogs that are found there. Its not news by any stretch of the imagination. Just some busy body that likes to gossip and has made a (small) name for themselves by trying to ruin peoples lives and name in the area.

 

===

The stupid irony of a secretive and anonymous person (Shoalanda) attacking the personal life of a named person, based on what's written on a FB page. What any of that has to do with Constitutional violations, I haven't a clue. It's just a pure attempt at defamation and used as a loud warning to others in the community not to stand up for what's just and legal, or else.  We are all indebted (even Christians) to Mr. Green for his courage and conviction to do what's right.

 

The last time another friend of mine contacted the FFRF to complain about another illegal act in a Florence school and chose to remain anonymous, the complainant was often attacked (in online comments) as a gutless coward. Yet all the complainant was trying to do was protect the identity of their children from the kind of vile harassment and death threats that Mr. Green is currently being subjected to.

__________________________________

 

Good point A.R. Da mned if you do and da mned if you don't.

 

It is down right scary really. If you think differently or have a dis-belief in God in this area you face the real possibility of being not only ostracized but also physically threatened.

 

Where do we live again? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Oh no thats right, we live in the free democratic country of America. For a minute there I was unsure.


It is scary and what i was saying about discrimination.  It's also another argument for separation of church and state.  Wouldn't it be awful if you happened to be a different faith (or no religion) and knew you couldn't come out and say that to many people in your community?

 

Oh wait.....hmmm.  

I just thought I would mention that when a person is technically employed by a temp company or a contractor that isn't a big one (such as hired through a company to do work for another one that s/he works with instead of the one that actually hired him) it is common to associate your job with that big company.

 

I worked for a temp agency for a couple of years technically, but I worked at a major telecomm in security.  Now technically I was hired by the temp place, but I hardly saw them, worked directly with the telecomm people, and if asked I said I worked in ........... security.  I did in my view and although I was hired through the other place I didn't think of them most of the time unless they decided to be annoying..lol.

 

So although he may technically work for that other company, he apparently does work for Google perhaps?  Anyway, I'm not saying he needs to be saying he works for Google, but that perhaps he wasn't deliberately trying to lie.  I have no idea and realize it isn't exactly the same thing, but I am just saying it doesn't make him an evil liar necessarily if he does work for Google...not sure how much sense I made there, but no one I knew who worked for the temp agency (my job wasn't a temp job) said, "I work for x temp agency".  We weren't lying, but we worked for the telecomm in our minds...I never really thought of anyone thinking that was a lie since it wasn't.  They hired the agency to fill those positions, so they did indirectly pay the salary and the work was for them.

 I wonder what the same people would be saying if he would suing to pray somewhere or to put a Nativity set in the downtown park?  I would bet he would be a courageous Christian

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yes, they would be behind him all the way and the description would be a young man, struggling to make a living in this economy, forced to live with his parents until things turn around for him, blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by frog:

I just thought I would mention that when a person is technically employed by a temp company or a contractor that isn't a big one (such as hired through a company to do work for another one that s/he works with instead of the one that actually hired him) it is common to associate your job with that big company.

 

I worked for a temp agency for a couple of years technically, but I worked at a major telecomm in security.  Now technically I was hired by the temp place, but I hardly saw them, worked directly with the telecomm people, and if asked I said I worked in ........... security.  I did in my view and although I was hired through the other place I didn't think of them most of the time unless they decided to be annoying..lol.

 

So although he may technically work for that other company, he apparently does work for Google perhaps?  Anyway, I'm not saying he needs to be saying he works for Google, but that perhaps he wasn't deliberately trying to lie.  I have no idea and realize it isn't exactly the same thing, but I am just saying it doesn't make him an evil liar necessarily if he does work for Google...not sure how much sense I made there, but no one I knew who worked for the temp agency (my job wasn't a temp job) said, "I work for x temp agency".  We weren't lying, but we worked for the telecomm in our minds...I never really thought of anyone thinking that was a lie since it wasn't.  They hired the agency to fill those positions, so they did indirectly pay the salary and the work was for them.

=====================

I know what you're saying frog but too many people make this more complicated

than it is. You technically work for the place that hires you. The temp company

is just a waiting room to stage people after the drug screen, medical history,

felony reports and other stuff the big company doesn't want to do.

Hiring and firing is easier and less expence this way. Less personal.

 

True, VIC.  I guess it's more exciting the way it's being portrayed though...lol.  If I had said I worked for x temp company that wouldn't have represented what I did.  I worked for the telecomm for I believe 2 years and became supervisor of the little security group there.  Saying I worked for the telecomm was more accurate.  I have no idea on this person, but saying you work for an obscure online hiring company doesn't help people know what you do.  If the guy does the Google search engine work than who cares who hired him?  It isn't as if he made it up and doesn't have a job.

 

And who cares where he lives?  That has nothing to do with the suit.

I've read todays and they say they'll be reviewing the Brooks people tomorrow. What are you going to do when they tear them apart? Change your mind real suddenly? Admit you were wrong?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Info, I'm missing something. Where does it say they're "reviewing" the Brooks people? What Brooks people? I looked and it's the same thing that's been on there for the last two days. As far as it being a good blog, it looks just like a "comment" site to me, something anyone could do.  So OK, what am I missing?

 

Originally Posted by Infomercial:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

LOL what is up the the copyright symbol on your post Crusty? I love it!

__________

Glad you asked, it is actually pertinent to the current discussion.  See my thread in Miscellaneous.

©

________________

 

Ok, I went, I read, I LOL! That is hilarious Crusty.  I really hate to even bring up SS because I hate to give that witch hunt of a blog the publicity. Apparently they can't come up with their own material so they have resorted to plagiarizing others. Not surprised really.

 

 

Dark, I do usually like your ideas even if I don't agree but that's twice tonight you've told an untruth. That's about as bad as claiming you work at Google. SS said it was quoting a forum member and that's not plagiarizing. You know as well as I do what plagiarizing is and that's not it. It's kinda funny that Crusty and SS think alike on the hospital thing, but he's unhappy over something else and won't give them credit for having a good blog. I've read todays and they say they'll be reviewing the Brooks people tomorrow. What are you going to do when they tear them apart? Change your mind real suddenly? Admit you were wrong?

__________________________

 

Actually I was only going on what Crusty said and from the re****tion SS has. If SS actually did give credit then I do retract the plagiarizing statement. However, I will feel the same way about SS no matter what they have to say about the Brooks group. My opinion of SS was formed long ago and I don't see it changing. Why does SS feel the need to "tear apart" anyone?

 

Also, I had no idea what it was that Crusty was saying they used of his in the blog. Seems you have a lot of knowledge of the goings on over there at SS. That is very interesting.  Me and Crusty are of the same opinion when it comes to SS. I don't give them credit for being a "good blog" either. It is nothing more than a gossip blog and not a very good one at that. My opinion of SS didn't start with this personal attack on Mr. Green.

Originally Posted by Infomercial:

 

 

You know as well as I do what plagiarizing is and that's not it. It's kinda funny that Crusty and SS think alike on the hospital thing, but he's unhappy over something else and won't give them credit for having a good blog. I've read todays and they say they'll be reviewing the Brooks people tomorrow. What are you going to do when they tear them apart? Change your mind real suddenly? Admit you were wrong?

_______________

 

Just to set the record straight, so there is no misunderstanding:  Shoalanda's blog is the worst kind of gossip, half-truths, innuendo, and misdirection.  Shaolanda is a hack, and just because she gets something right on occasion makes her no more credible than a street corner huckster.  ©

Originally Posted by frog:

Who are they supposed to be tearing apart?  I am confused again...lol.

_________________

 

The Christians that have formed a facebook group called "Brooks Lions will Pray" They are the ones that have been the most vocal about the issue and are selling t-shirts to fund their cause to keep breaking the law and have prayer at the football games.

 

They have all decided to band together, regardless of denomination, and work for a cause. Which would be awesome if they were actually using their power and money for something worthwhile like feeding the hungry in our area or putting coats on the backs of children this winter. That is what Mr. Green is doing right now. He has been having a food and coat drive for a couple of months now. Instead they plan on using the money they raise to pay for a lawyer.

I agree Crusty. The whole thing just stinks. Reeks really. She also keeps insinuating that he (Mr. Green) was forced or coerced into doing this by more prominent members of the community. I wonder who she will target next with her blog? As I said I did not care for her tactics before this and I have no reason to change my mind about her even if she uses the same kind of nastiness towards the Brooks prayer group.

 

What Mr. Green did was use his rights as an American to file a complaint or grevience. Now he is being called a liar, a criminal and a patsy by someone that is too much of a coward to use her real name as she does so.

Now everyone knows about it.

 

Religion - US
Atheist Group Tries to Stop Prayers at High School Football Games That Include ‘Jesus’

By Todd Starnes
Published October 26, 2011
| FoxNews.com

An Alabama school district has been accused of allowing prayers that invoke the name of Jesus during high school football games, according to a complaint filed by a national atheist organization.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation said the Lauderdale County school district has violated the First Amendment by allowing the prayers at Brooks High School.

School superintendent Bill Valentine confirmed to Fox News that he had received the complaint.

“We’ve referred that complaint to our attorney and we are in the process of reviewing it,” he said.

The complaint was lodged by a single resident who objected to the student-led prayer before high school football games played on school property.

The Times Daily newspaper identified the complainant as Jeremy Green. In an email to the newspaper, Green said he was taking a stand for the so-called “separation of church and state in an effort to protect the constitutional rights of the non-religious.”

“It is not the job of the public school system to endorse religion,” he wrote.

Valentine said that to his knowledge, no one has ever lodged a complaint with the school system about the prayers.

The Freedom from Religion Foundation filed a similar complaint against a school in Arab, Ala. That school decided to end pregame prayers and instead offer a moment of silence.

Valentine said they haven’t made any decision about prayers for Friday night’s football game.

He said the complaint has generated lots of telephone calls – mostly in support of keeping the prayers. He added that most callers have been understanding and “seem to appreciate the quandary we find ourselves in.”

Lauderdale County has about 8,600 students enrolled in public schools and Valentine said the community has a very active religious community.

Among those is David McKelvey, pastor of the nearby First Baptist Church, Killen. He discussed the controversy during his Sunday sermon.

“It’s very sad,” McKelvey told Fox News. “I would think that any other prayer from another religion would not receive this kind of negativity.”

McKelvey said he’s attended football games when students deliver prayer and to his knowledge they have always been benign – mostly prayers for the players, the coaches, the referees and the fans.

“They are in the Christian context with the student ending the prayer in Jesus’ name,” he said.

The pastor called the complaint “unfortunate” but not surprising. Christianity, he said, is under attack.

“It’s going on all over the place,” he said. “You just hate for it to be coming to your doorstep.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011...clude/#ixzz1bzjoYwR8

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by frog:

Who are they supposed to be tearing apart?  I am confused again...lol.

_________________

 

The Christians that have formed a facebook group called "Brooks Lions will Pray" They are the ones that have been the most vocal about the issue and are selling t-shirts to fund their cause to keep breaking the law and have prayer at the football games.

 

They have all decided to band together, regardless of denomination, and work for a cause. Which would be awesome if they were actually using their power and money for something worthwhile like feeding the hungry in our area or putting coats on the backs of children this winter. That is what Mr. Green is doing right now. He has been having a food and coat drive for a couple of months now. Instead they plan on using the money they raise to pay for a lawyer.


I think that says a lot about the situation and those involved.  T-shirts to fund having one philosophy, illegal, forced upon anyone who decides to come see a football game.  Your point is good, too.  Funny no one in favor of the prayers happened to mention he (the supposed liar who lives with his mother or whatever) has been having the food and coat drive and they are raising funds for a lawyer.  Interesting...I wonder what Jesus would say about that?

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I agree Crusty. The whole thing just stinks. Reeks really. She also keeps insinuating that he (Mr. Green) was forced or coerced into doing this by more prominent members of the community. I wonder who she will target next with her blog? As I said I did not care for her tactics before this and I have no reason to change my mind about her even if she uses the same kind of nastiness towards the Brooks prayer group.

 

What Mr. Green did was use his rights as an American to file a complaint or grevience. Now he is being called a liar, a criminal and a patsy by someone that is too much of a coward to use her real name as she does so.


Hmm...that doesn't sound very Christian to me either personally.

My problem with this is that Mr. Green, and many like him, just want attention, and they want to use the power of the courts to force their will upon others.  Why should a majority not have its way?  What does a simple publically voiced prayer hurt?  I can understand his disbelief and will respect it, however it should not mean that the ideas of a small minority should affect the actions of so many.  He does not want the public access of the prayergiver executed by the school, yet I assure you he would likely.have no problem with our tax dollars supplementing a gay rights parade, or a federal supported abortion clinic.

No, Mr. Green is an attention *****.  One who like so many others in our nation today feels like he best represents the opressed and downtrodden.  I don't believe in the tooth fairy, yet I am not out making a statement against him, or her.  I don't beleive in Santa Claus, yet you do not hear of me going before the town council and attempting to have him thrown from the parade.  God forbid we get started on beliefs about the Easter Bunny.  Yet I do believe in God, it is my right to do so, and to pray if I wish.  If a majority is joined together and wishes to execute that right, one person should not prevent them from doing so. The spoken prayer of a young man or woman at a ball game is not going to destroy the atheist movement.  Mr. Green will likely win his crusade against the church in regards to the LCHS, but his long term gains may be more than he is bargaining for.  My question to Mr. Green is that what if I am wrong and there is no God, what have I lost?  Compared to him and if he is wrong, and there is a God? what does he lose?

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

America is sliding down a slippery slope from which it may not recover, all because of liberalism, anti-Christian court rulings and minority (pick one)-held beliefs becoming the norm, rather than the rule. Collectively, America has asked....no, BEGGED....for it for the past 40 years. She may very well choke on it.


After all, this is your America and not anyone else's unless they agree with you completely.  So I guess it is only fair that you should get to decide personally what everyone else in your whole country gets to do.

 

 

Isn't this EXACTLY what the aetheist and Muslims are doing? WHY is it OK for THEM...but NOT for Christians? WHat about OUR rights?

If he only wanted attention I'm sure there are plenty of better ways to get it besides kicking over a "fire ant" hill called religion. If you have to ask what it "hurts" you probably won't accept any answer. You may respect his disbelief on the one hand but on the other you think it should be kept to himself. Kinda the same thing atheists think about the christian's belief isn't it?

What about your rights dog? Which ones have you lost? You lump atheists and muslims together and completely ignore the question I ask you earlier about who you feel is changing this country. How do you feel about other christians taking away your "rights", or at the very least thumbing their noses at our laws?

Originally Posted by b50m:

Now everyone knows about it.

 

Religion - US
Atheist Group Tries to Stop Prayers at High School Football Games That Include ‘Jesus’

By Todd Starnes
Published October 26, 2011
| FoxNews.com

An Alabama school district has been accused of allowing prayers that invoke the name of Jesus during high school football games, according to a complaint filed by a national atheist organization.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation said the Lauderdale County school district has violated the First Amendment by allowing the prayers at Brooks High School.

School superintendent Bill Valentine confirmed to Fox News that he had received the complaint.

“We’ve referred that complaint to our attorney and we are in the process of reviewing it,” he said.

The complaint was lodged by a single resident who objected to the student-led prayer before high school football games played on school property.

The Times Daily newspaper identified the complainant as Jeremy Green. In an email to the newspaper, Green said he was taking a stand for the so-called “separation of church and state in an effort to protect the constitutional rights of the non-religious.”

“It is not the job of the public school system to endorse religion,” he wrote.

Valentine said that to his knowledge, no one has ever lodged a complaint with the school system about the prayers.

The Freedom from Religion Foundation filed a similar complaint against a school in Arab, Ala. That school decided to end pregame prayers and instead offer a moment of silence.

Valentine said they haven’t made any decision about prayers for Friday night’s football game.

He said the complaint has generated lots of telephone calls – mostly in support of keeping the prayers. He added that most callers have been understanding and “seem to appreciate the quandary we find ourselves in.”

Lauderdale County has about 8,600 students enrolled in public schools and Valentine said the community has a very active religious community.

Among those is David McKelvey, pastor of the nearby First Baptist Church, Killen. He discussed the controversy during his Sunday sermon.

“It’s very sad,” McKelvey told Fox News. “I would think that any other prayer from another religion would not receive this kind of negativity.”

McKelvey said he’s attended football games when students deliver prayer and to his knowledge they have always been benign – mostly prayers for the players, the coaches, the referees and the fans.

“They are in the Christian context with the student ending the prayer in Jesus’ name,” he said.

The pastor called the complaint “unfortunate” but not surprising. Christianity, he said, is under attack.

“It’s going on all over the place,” he said. “You just hate for it to be coming to your doorstep.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011...clude/#ixzz1bzjoYwR8

 

 

 

 


It is sad, but not for the reason the pastor thinks.  So he thinks that if Islamic prayers, specifically Catholic ones even, UU or Humanist, Hindu, or some other prayers were said instead that there would be hugging and happiness all over?  They are benign to him because that is his faith and the idea is totally reasonable and pleasant to him.  Christianity is under attack because they can't yell prayers over a loudspeaker?  Okay...lol.  

 

The reality is that there are more than just that one person who didn't care for the prayers...I didn't even when I was Christian for the same reasons I don't now, but to speak up and say how a person feels does bring on attacks and character assassination.  I think that is rather obvious from this situation and the reactions the man Green has received.  It isn't that Christianity is under attack, but that finally the people who don't happen to want Christianity to be state or country-sponsored are beginning to speak up.  It's that finally there is opportunity for all groups to be treated fairly...well, sort of I guess.  Not really since this person is being attacked.  

 

You know, when my kids were in kindergarten at a public school here the teacher used to sing Christian songs with the class and made a fairly big deal of it.  I didn't hear about it until school was over, and when my husband mentioned it I asked why he didn't tell me before.  He said he knew I would speak to her about it and he didn't want our daughter treated badly because the teacher (a wonderful teacher) was very religious and he was afraid for the other kids to report to their parents why they couldn't sing church songs any more.  Seriously...this is in Florence City Schools and not a private school.  She came home one day asking me why the teacher (who was very nice to her) and whispered in her ear a few times that Jesus loved her.  Where did that come into the lesson plan?  

 

We used it to explain different people believe differently and surely she was trying to be nice, but she said she told her she didn't believe in Jesus and the teacher corrected her.  She came home confused as to why her teacher would do that.  It was at the very end of the year, but really if I had gone down there to ask her to refrain from that do you bet she would have thought teh same of me or my kids?

 

And this year there is a Bible quote hanging in the room.  I know that if I speak up and ask why it is there my child may be treated differently, and I know this from experience.  I don't see anyone laughing at or teasing the kids for being Christian, but I do see it for kids who aren't.  I know of a mother who had to take her child out and homeschool her because she was taunted by the other students (not FCS but this area) because the child is Wiccan.  The teachers and principal didn't use the opportunity to teach the kids about bullying and tolerance or firmly stop the bullying, so the parent had to quit her job to stay home with her child.  It's just that this Green person had the guts to  speak up is the problem that some have with him, and look at his life now.  Who is being persecuted?

Then please explain it to me so I can understand.  How is Mr. Green's "rights" being trod upon by a simple vocalization of prayer to a God in which he does not believe, in a forum full of people who do believe?  How is he being traumatized or hurt in any way?

If I went to a ball game, where 1000 devil worshippers, or Muslims, or any other group, and they led a vocal prayer to some diety in which I did not believe, nor support, how am I damaged by this?

unless of course, deep down Mr. Green may question his disbelief and feels compelled that others should feel as he does in order for him to feel better about himself.  It is ridiculous and a waste of the court's time and money to even pursue this non-sense.  Local municipalites should be left to their own to decide how they wish to live.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

America is sliding down a slippery slope from which it may not recover, all because of liberalism, anti-Christian court rulings and minority (pick one)-held beliefs becoming the norm, rather than the rule. Collectively, America has asked....no, BEGGED....for it for the past 40 years. She may very well choke on it.


After all, this is your America and not anyone else's unless they agree with you completely.  So I guess it is only fair that you should get to decide personally what everyone else in your whole country gets to do.

 

 

Isn't this EXACTLY what the aetheist and Muslims are doing? WHY is it OK for THEM...but NOT for Christians? WHat about OUR rights?


Oh, you have had your rights forever and if you had your way all the minorities and anyone but white Christian males would be silenced.  All anyone is asking is for equality, but to you that feels threatening because you haven't had to be fair or equal up until now.  No one is telling you not to pray and you know that.  It isn't a small minority, and if we always went by majority preference blacks would be sitting in a different bus and not considered a person, women wouldn't be voting, and this country would be a completely difference place.  Perhaps the country you feel it should be, but not the one everyone else feels it should be...others' opinions and beliefs count too.

The law is the law. It doesn't change to favor your point of view just because you don't like it. Mr. Green will win. Brooks HS and others will lose. No amount of misinformation, ignorant hyperbole and threats from theocratic nutjobs will change that. Brooks and other Lauderdale county schools will have moments of silence replacing official prayers in order to return to compliance with the law. Get used to it. City schools won't be far behind them.

 

Should Brooks or private individuals decide to pursue this matter legally they will be spanked and shown their place. In the process, they'll create even more precedent to bolster the Constitutional mandate of separation of state and church, making it easier for future Mr. Greens. Like I said, get used to it. Eventually, modernity catches up with us in the South and it affects the way we do things. This will be yet another lesson learned (but resented as usual).

Originally Posted by teyates:

My problem with this is that Mr. Green, and many like him, just want attention, and they want to use the power of the courts to force their will upon others.  Why should a majority not have its way?  What does a simple publically voiced prayer hurt?  I can understand his disbelief and will respect it, however it should not mean that the ideas of a small minority should affect the actions of so many.  He does not want the public access of the prayergiver executed by the school, yet I assure you he would likely.have no problem with our tax dollars supplementing a gay rights parade, or a federal supported abortion clinic.

 

You are right.  Many do want to use the power of courts to force their will upon others.  Look at the voting rights bills being drawn up now and the abortion bills, too.  You are right there, but you might not want to use that argument when this is being done by your own group all over the country right now.  What does a moment of silence hurt?  Forcing the will of the majority on civil rights or religious issues gets you sharia law, so I don't think you want that.


You don't respect it or you wouldn't say your way is the right way.  Tax dollars aren't funding gay rights parades or abortions, and the funding goes for other health care services for poor women.  Look it up!  It sounds good to say those things, but they aren't true.  You aren't paying for anyone's abortions and you haven't been.  

No, Mr. Green is an attention *****.  One who like so many others in our nation today feels like he best represents the opressed and downtrodden.  I don't believe in the tooth fairy, yet I am not out making a statement against him, or her.  I don't beleive in Santa Claus, yet you do not hear of me going before the town council and attempting to have him thrown from the parade.  God forbid we get started on beliefs about the Easter Bunny.  Yet I do believe in God, it is my right to do so, and to pray if I wish.  If a majority is joined together and wishes to execute that right, one person should not prevent them from doing so. The spoken prayer of a young man or woman at a ball game is not going to destroy the atheist movement.  Mr. Green will likely win his crusade against the church in regards to the LCHS, but his long term gains may be more than he is bargaining for.  My question to Mr. Green is that what if I am wrong and there is no God, what have I lost?  Compared to him and if he is wrong, and there is a God? what does he lose?


No one is broadcasting prayers to the tooth fairy at a school event over the PA system, so this isn't the same issue, and Christmas Parades aren't public school events.  Once again...no one said you can't pray.  No one said any moment would be destroyed and this really isn't just about atheists.  

 

This isn't about your beliefs or his either.  It isn't up to you what happens to his soul, and when I was Christian I didn't agree with the PA prayers either...it isn't even about believing really.  It's about treating others with respect and being fair to all..and the law.  Why do you even ask the questions in the last bolded part?  This isn't about you praying, him praying, or atheists.  It's about praying prayers over a loudspeaker at a school event.  Would you be as thrilled about the idea if it were Islamic or some other groups' prayers?  No, it is because it's the system to which you happen to be part.  What he loses or gains isn't even part of this topic.  No one said you can't pray all day if you like.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

The law is the law. It doesn't change to favor your point of view just because you don't like it. Mr. Green will win. Brooks HS and others will lose. No amount of misinformation, ignorant hyperbole and threats from theocratic nutjobs will change that. Brooks and other Lauderdale county schools will have moments of silence replacing official prayers in order to return to compliance with the law. Get used to it. City schools won't be far behind them.

 

Should Brooks or private individuals decide to pursue this matter legally they will be spanked and shown their place. In the process, they'll create even more precedent to bolster the Constitutional mandate of separation of state and church, making it easier for future Mr. Greens. Like I said, get used to it. Eventually, modernity catches up with us in the South and it affects the way we do things. This will be yet another lesson learned (but resented as usual).


Well said, although I personally wouldn't call anyone a nutjob...well, not often, anyway.

Originally Posted by teyates:

Then please explain it to me so I can understand.  How is Mr. Green's "rights" being trod upon by a simple vocalization of prayer to a God in which he does not believe, in a forum full of people who do believe?  How is he being traumatized or hurt in any way?

If I went to a ball game, where 1000 devil worshippers, or Muslims, or any other group, and they led a vocal prayer to some diety in which I did not believe, nor support, how am I damaged by this?

unless of course, deep down Mr. Green may question his disbelief and feels compelled that others should feel as he does in order for him to feel better about himself.  It is ridiculous and a waste of the court's time and money to even pursue this non-sense.  Local municipalites should be left to their own to decide how they wish to live.


The point isn't how deep his beliefs are...lol.  So I guess you are saying that when we decide that there are lots more Islamic people here than Christians we can start having Islamic prayers before games?  Or maybe a Wiccan ritual?  Hmm...whatever the Norse religious believers want to pray or say instead of your choice?  You would really be okay with that?

 

If so then why does the idea of a moment of silence so all who wish to pray can, all who wish to send positive energy, think, focus, or relax can all do so bother you so much?  How about the people in charge just acknowledge it isn't legal and stop the public yelled prayers?  No charge for defending it and all views are respected.  If you truly don't mind if another group would speak or pray, then a moment of silence so you can pray could work just as well I would think.

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

The law is the law. It doesn't change to favor your point of view just because you don't like it. Mr. Green will win. Brooks HS and others will lose. No amount of misinformation, ignorant hyperbole and threats from theocratic nutjobs will change that. Brooks and other Lauderdale county schools will have moments of silence replacing official prayers in order to return to compliance with the law. Get used to it. City schools won't be far behind them.

 

Should Brooks or private individuals decide to pursue this matter legally they will be spanked and shown their place. In the process, they'll create even more precedent to bolster the Constitutional mandate of separation of state and church, making it easier for future Mr. Greens. Like I said, get used to it. Eventually, modernity catches up with us in the South and it affects the way we do things. This will be yet another lesson learned (but resented as usual).


Well said, although I personally wouldn't call anyone a nutjob...well, not often, anyway.

===

You must not be aware of the craziness and threats that have been slung toward Mr. Green. It is really a sad reminder of some of the people we share our community with. When secularists call these idiots out as examples of the failures of Christendom, we get refuted that they're not possibly Christian, just nutjobs. I think some are both.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

The law is the law. It doesn't change to favor your point of view just because you don't like it. Mr. Green will win. Brooks HS and others will lose. No amount of misinformation, ignorant hyperbole and threats from theocratic nutjobs will change that. Brooks and other Lauderdale county schools will have moments of silence replacing official prayers in order to return to compliance with the law. Get used to it. City schools won't be far behind them.

 

Should Brooks or private individuals decide to pursue this matter legally they will be spanked and shown their place. In the process, they'll create even more precedent to bolster the Constitutional mandate of separation of state and church, making it easier for future Mr. Greens. Like I said, get used to it. Eventually, modernity catches up with us in the South and it affects the way we do things. This will be yet another lesson learned (but resented as usual).


Well said, although I personally wouldn't call anyone a nutjob...well, not often, anyway.

===

You must not be aware of the craziness and threats that have been slung toward Mr. Green. It is really a sad reminder of some of the people we share our community with. When secularists call these idiots out as examples of the failures of Christendom, we get refuted that they're not possibly Christian, just nutjobs. I think some are both.


Good point.  I'm not totally aware of all of it, but you have a point there.  

Christianity, sadly, does not hold the honor of being the only group who is filled with nutjobs and zealots, as evidenced by this man's actions, and those who hold him in reverence.  I am not condoning the actions of either group, just simply pointing out that Mr. Green had nothing to fear from the vocal prayers at the school, and his actions are a ferverent display of someone who is either looking for attention or feels threatened by his Christian neighbors prayers to a God in whom he says he does not believe, 

Originally Posted by lexum:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:

 

Christians have gotten a free pass for a long time when it comes to stuff like this. They're not surrounded by just other christians anymore. It's about time, I think, that they began to realize that.  Welcome to the 00s.  People have evolved past ghosties and fairies by now.

 

Well.........Some of us have.

 

 

 

Free pass from who RP?

Heh. Fr such a self-proclaimed smart guy, buf...Ya sure haven't been following too closely.

 

The free pass is from other christians who happen to be either in local positions of authority such as councilpersons, mayors, school officials (Oh! and did I mention atall the 'every other guy who claims to be a freakin' preacher?').

 

It's OK to do whatever ya wanna when you're surrounded by like-minded people. What they're doing becomes 'normal' after awhile because...well, heck....it's been done that way for as long as any like-minded body can remember.

 

The times, they are a-changin'....

 

Originally Posted by teyates:

Christianity, sadly, does not hold the honor of being the only group who is filled with nutjobs and zealots, as evidenced by this man's actions, and those who hold him in reverence.  I am not condoning the actions of either group, just simply pointing out that Mr. Green had nothing to fear from the vocal prayers at the school, and his actions are a ferverent display of someone who is either looking for attention or feels threatened by his Christian neighbors prayers to a God in whom he says he does not believe, 


You are absolutely right that "nut jobs" come in all flavors

 

I don't think he is held in reverence, but I do appreciate that he did speak up.  He probably wasn't afraid of the prayers, just as I'm sure you wouldn't be afraid of a moment of silence.  The issue here that creates the problem is in my opinion shown by your bolded section.  Your refusal or inability to accept the fact that this man or other people might not feel threatened at all, but be just tired of having one group praying over a PA system when it is illegal to do that at a public school event.  The suit doesn't have anything to do with him liking or not liking anyone, nor does this make him a zealot or an attention seeker.  It makes him a citizen of the US who decided something was illegal and had enough of not speaking up.  It doesn't mean he feels threatened...or maybe he does and should.

 

If it's okay for one religious group to ignore the law and yell it over a loudspeaker perhaps there is something to be threatened about...it says actually that this particular group can get away with ignoring the law.  But that aside, if he were trying to get official pray groups into schools I wonder how many of these same people would be calling him a zealot?  Would he then be a brave Christian?

 

What if he (or I or anyone else) decided to start a tradition of saying before each game over the same PA system something like, "Just a reminder that there is no God and that whatever happens during this game is related to skill, lack of it, or luck.  So in the name of all that is reasonable I ask you all to not pray to your God, but instead to focus on the game while you all treat each other with respect and kindness. Of course we hope no one is injured tonight and that all play a fair game.  Thank you."

 

Is that okay?  It won't threaten your firm beliefs, so I sincerely ask you if that would be okay with you?  It will be said before all sporting events and all official school events over a loudspeaker, by the way, but it won't damage you or shake your faith if you truly believe in God.  Is that okay with you?  No Christian prayers will be said, but variations on this speech will be.

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