That is what Mr. Green is doing right now. He has been having a food and coat drive for a couple of months now.

 

I still can't find out where Jeremy is warehousing all these coats and food. I'll bet it's a lie and he has been busy stopping prayers. What about it JIMI?

Originally Posted by lexum:

That is what Mr. Green is doing right now. He has been having a food and coat drive for a couple of months now.

 

I still can't find out where Jeremy is warehousing all these coats and food. I'll bet it's a lie and he has been busy stopping prayers. What about it JIMI?

Why do you think that I know anything about this? IF I did, and I don't, why would I volunteer information to a nitwit like you? You are insane.

Originally Posted by BFred07:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
 

The bulldog is just another anarchist.

This coming from the guy who just suggested that the U.S. Supreme Court lies in their rulings 

Where did you get that twisted idea? I called you an anarchist because you advocate openly defying the law.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by BFred07:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
 

The bulldog is just another anarchist.

This coming from the guy who just suggested that the U.S. Supreme Court lies in their rulings 

Where did you get that twisted idea? I called you an anarchist because you advocate openly defying the law.

I am not sure where you went to law school to make such an interpretation but none of what I've said on this subject advocates breaking any laws. I'm curious as to what you might be making reference to?

I wonder what will be next....Florence City Council? I sure hope so. They have been getting by with breaking the law also for far too long.

 

Today is a great day for all Lauderdale County citizens. We have made progress and we are just that much closer to being a truly free and fair state to all our citizens.

 

I say again, Yay Mr. Green! Thank you for putting yourself on the line and taking the heat from the religious nuts. Hopefully none of them will actually follow through with their threats and do you any harm. If they try remember you have the law on your side. Just as you did this time.

 

Since they are already starting to fight amongst themselves, I see this group, that has formed in the last few days to try and fight against our Constitution, falling apart soon. They will probably walk out on the field and say their prayers to their God and make a big show of it this Friday. Maybe they will carry on with the Lords Prayer in the stands for a game or two. Then they will go right back to fighting and arguing over who worships the right way. Hopefully, but doubtfully, they will finally realize they still have the right to pray. Just not over the PA system at our children's school athletic events.

 

 

Yea, I guess stuff like feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, education, shelters for the homeless, soup kitchens, youth programs, free counseling, helping the poor with utility bills to keep the heat on, transporting the elderly & disabled to Dr. appointments, grocery store, etc, helping people with medical bills, and the countless other things that Churches do to help out should not be counted as charity.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mega churches, buying up property to build even bigger mega churches, flim flaming gullible old folks out of their land and estates, pastors/preachers driving expensive cars, jewelry dripping off him and his bleached blonde wife's hands. The mansions and cities of gold they live in while they strut around with gold robes and people kissing their rings, and all the while begging for more and more money.  Go to the appalachias and do some good and then get back to me. Churches do the least they can get away with. Those disabled and elderly they help are members of their congregation. Others can go **** up a rope.

To those who support the Brooks will pray initiative, has it occurred to you that apparently there is no public prayer in city ball games? That would be Florence, Sheffield, Muscle Shoals, Deshler, Russellville. I'm assuming they stopped years ago.

 

As for the food/coat drive, it's simple. If you don't like Mr. Green personally, don't support it. I support Heart's Cry Thrift Store in Elgin. Wonderful people and they will provide food and clothing if a person genuinely needs it. They also do Christmas for two nursing homes.

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I wonder what will be next....Florence City Council? I sure hope so. They have been getting by with breaking the law also for far too long.

 

Today is a great day for all Lauderdale County citizens. We have made progress and we are just that much closer to being a truly free and fair state to all our citizens.

 

I say again, Yay Mr. Green! Thank you for putting yourself on the line and taking the heat from the religious nuts. Hopefully none of them will actually follow through with their threats and do you any harm. If they try remember you have the law on your side. Just as you did this time.

 

Since they are already starting to fight amongst themselves, I see this group, that has formed in the last few days to try and fight against our Constitution, falling apart soon. They will probably walk out on the field and say their prayers to their God and make a big show of it this Friday. Maybe they will carry on with the Lords Prayer in the stands for a game or two. Then they will go right back to fighting and arguing over who worships the right way. Hopefully, but doubtfully, they will finally realize they still have the right to pray. Just not over the PA system at our children's school athletic events.

 

 


Well said.  Good point on the city council, too.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

How has the city council been breaking the law?

****

 

By routinely offering public prayers by Clowncil members "in Jesus' name."  Often this is done with both opening and closing prayers. Should anyone pose objection to this unconstitutional practice, expect an uninformed and intemperate sermonette from Sam Pendleton, who will add to his ludicrous complaint about his freedom of speech being denied the additional complaint that his freedom of religion also is being attacked. Some other members may also join in, the most likely being Hermon Graham, whose East Florence constituency will be ignorantly impressed.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

How has the city council been breaking the law?

_______________________________

 

Crusty I may have to somewhat retract that statement. There have been many cases where citizens have sued their local government councils for violation of the Establishment Clause and have won, but the SCOTUS is still somewhat wishy washy on this one.The Florence City Council routinely lead sectarian prayers before their meetings.

 

Here are a few examples.

 

The legal benchmark for legislative prayer remains the 1983 Supreme Court decision, Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783 (1983), which ruled that the Nebraska legislature's tradition of opening with a prayer by a paid chaplain was constitutional. Nebraska State Senator Ernie Chambers challenged the practice as violative of the Establishment Clause. The Marsh decision carved out a very narrow exception to the Establishment Clause, as well as established Court doctrine, as a nod to history and custom; however, the Court made clear that “Standing alone, historical patterns cannot justify contemporary violations of constitutional guarantees . . . ” Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783, 790 (1983). In the Court's language:

To invoke Divine guidance on a public body entrusted with making the laws is not, in these circumstances, an “establishment” of religion or a step toward establishment; it is simply a tolerable acknowledgment of beliefs widely held among the people of this country.

If a legislative prayer were to exceed the confines of the circumstances outlined in Marsh, then no such exception would apply. First and foremost, the prayer opportunity must not be “exploited to proselytize or advance any one, or to disparage any other, faith or belief.” Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783, 794 (1983). This applies to the content of the prayers, the selection of the prayer leaders, be they clergy, representatives, or government officials, and the audience to whom the prayer is addressed. The audience in Marsh was construed as comprising only legislators, represented by the plaintiff, Sen. Ernie Chambers. The Court found that such an audience would not be “readily susceptible to 'religious indoctrination'.”

 

 

Subsequent Supreme Court and lower federal court decisions serve as clarifications of the Marsh v. Chambers analysis, particularly with regard to the content of legislative prayers.

 

In County of Allegheny v. ACLU Greater Pittsburgh Chapter, 492 U.S. 573 (1989), The Court found that, even if history and custom had saved non-sectarian legislative prayer, “history cannot legitimate practices that demonstrate the government's allegiance to a particular sect or creed.” Additionally, the Court reiterated that “not even the 'unique history' of legislative prayer, can justify contemporary legislative prayers that have the effect of affiliating the government with any one specific faith or belief.” The Court continued, “The legislative prayers involved in Marsh did not violate this principle because the particular chaplain had 'removed all references to Christ.'” Therefore, while non-sectarian legislative prayer could fall within the constraints of the Marsh exception, legislative prayer which has the effect of either proselytizing or advancing or disparaging or demonstrating the government's allegiance to or affiliating the government with any particular faith or belief, cannot fall within the constraints of the Marsh exception, regardless of history or custom. The strong sectarian nature of legislative prayer, and/or the inclusion of sectarian references to deities, saints, and/or prophets, could indicate an Establishment Clause violation. It is significant that the U.S. Supreme Court has recently twice upheld the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals requiring that city-led prayers be nonsectarian.

 

So it would be a harder fight and not nearly as clear cut as the prayer in school.

I don't watch the council meetings because I can't get drunk enough to enjoy even that level of ridiculousness.  However, I wonder this:  when they pray, are they praying amongst themselves, or are they forcing a prayer on the attendees as well.  The first would seem to be protected, the second illegal.  Just "thinling" here.  ©

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I don't watch the council meetings because I can't get drunk enough to enjoy even that level of ridiculousness.  However, I wonder this:  when they pray, are they praying amongst themselves, or are they forcing a prayer on the attendees as well.  The first would seem to be protected, the second illegal.  Just "thinling" here.  ©

***

They are praying in a room where numerous other persons are present beyond the Clowncil members themselves, and their Clowncil meeting goes into many homes via cable TV. They do indeed invoke the name of Jesus.  It appears obvious that this practice constitutes the kind of "endorsement" of a particular belief, which  the courts have consistently held to be unconstitutional.

I think you are right Contendah, but because there have been some unclear verdicts on the matter it may be a tougher case to win. The prayers are always to the Christian God and ending in Jesus name amen.  I feel they are definitely violating the law but it would probably take a full blown law suit to get them to stop.

Originally Posted by lexum:

In such a short time I have determined that Bestworking has a hate for Christian believers.

What is it best? Why all the hate?. What line of work are you in?

_________________________________

You have determined wrong. She doesn't hate Christian believers. She has said many times that she doesn't want Christianity forced on her, just as many don't.

She's probably like myself in that I despise those "Christians" that just wear the hat.

I assume you're one of those?

I have a question for anyone that would care to answer.

There are people in this world that is hungry, without a home, people suffering with diseases & many kinds of sickness. Children/babies that are being abused & killed.

Why is it so important that some people feel the need to pray for, of all things, a ballgame?

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I think you are right Contendah, but because there have been some unclear verdicts on the matter it may be a tougher case to win. The prayers are always to the Christian God and ending in Jesus name amen.  I feel they are definitely violating the law but it would probably take a full blown law suit to get them to stop.

***

I certainly hope that the school system does not devote its scarce funds to finance a defense against a lawsuit that they would seem destined to lose.  With currently strained school budgets,

the money would be better spent on library books and toilet paper. 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Mega churches, buying up property to build even bigger mega churches, flim flaming gullible old folks out of their land and estates, pastors/preachers driving expensive cars, jewelry dripping off him and his bleached blonde wife's hands. The mansions and cities of gold they live in while they strut around with gold robes and people kissing their rings, and all the while begging for more and more money.  Go to the appalachias and do some good and then get back to me. Churches do the least they can get away with. Those disabled and elderly they help are members of their congregation. Others can go **** up a rope.


So what you're saying is that there should be a limit on the size building a non profit organization can use and a cap on how many people their building can serve? And you are also saying that non profit groups should have a minimum standard set by you on what percentage of their efforts are done in Appalacia?

BTW, the elderly & disabled that get transportation and home repairs from Churches are not always members of the congregation they receive help from.

Originally Posted by BFred07:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
 whose East Florence constituency will be ignorantly impressed.


Thanks better, you've just insulted all of East Florence

****

 

Not "insulted," but correctly characterized.  Regrettably,  ignorance and emotional bias relative to the school prayer issue contaminates the thinking of great majority of the citizens of Florence, irrespective of which part of the city they live in.  That is not an insult to the majority, but an acknowledgement of fact.

Originally Posted by BFred07:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Mega churches, buying up property to build even bigger mega churches, flim flaming gullible old folks out of their land and estates, pastors/preachers driving expensive cars, jewelry dripping off him and his bleached blonde wife's hands. The mansions and cities of gold they live in while they strut around with gold robes and people kissing their rings, and all the while begging for more and more money.  Go to the appalachias and do some good and then get back to me. Churches do the least they can get away with. Those disabled and elderly they help are members of their congregation. Others can go **** up a rope.


So what you're saying is that there should be a limit on the size building a non profit organization can use and a cap on how many people their building can serve? And you are also saying that non profit groups should have a minimum standard set by you on what percentage of their efforts are done in Appalacia?

BTW, the elderly & disabled that get transportation and home repairs from Churches are not always members of the congregation they receive help from.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I posted what I meant. You take it any way you want to take it. I set no standard for anything. It wouldn't do any good for anyone to suggest anything to the greedy churches. If anyone did get between them and their money you can bet that THEN you would see them all start crying about "separation of church and state". 

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

So dog, does that mean that we can disobey any law we think is unjust whether or not you do?

Study Jefferson, then come back and ask the same question.

________________________________

 

In this topic we are talking about the 1st Amendment. Our Constitution is the very basis for all our laws. Do you really think that Jefferson felt the Constitution was unjust? He himself interpreted the 1st Amendment in the same manner in which it is being applied to prayer over the PA system during school football games.

 

Maybe you should read his letter to the Danbury Baptist.

Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.

Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?

Non of you that’s how many.

I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.

Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.

Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.

Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?

Non of you that’s how many.

I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.

Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Who have I hurt buffalo and how have I hurt them? No, I don't attend Brooks games, I don't live there. Plenty of you hatefilled christians posting about it don't live there or attend the games either. It's not just a handful of atheists, plenty of christans don't agree with the prayers either. Why should I have my mail stopped? I pay taxes and I buy the stamps or pay to ship packages. I get no service from the government for free. If you want fairness stop delivering mail or packages to churches. They pay no taxes but still get the service. And one thing you got right, nothing you say makes a lick of sense.

Originally Posted by lexum:

but best, you see: your getting mail delivery offends me.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Good. Churches not paying taxes but wanting a say in government offends me. I hope it keeps you up at night being offended that I get mail service that I pay for. I sleep fine btw.

 

Originally Posted by lexum:

Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.

Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?

Non of you that’s how many.

I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.

Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.


Lol.  Your whole post makes so little sense and is just an attempt to argue.  It isn't worth commenting on besides saying those things aren't even related and you know it.  

 

Really...mail service?  If people can't pray before a game they won't go?  Now that is mature.  You have outdone yourself.  I thought I was reading something my kids would say with arms folded and a pout.  If I can't have candy then she can't wear her jacket in the snow...lol.  Same type of logic...lol.

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by lexum:

Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.

Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?

Non of you that’s how many.

I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.

Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.


Lol.  Your whole post makes so little sense and is just an attempt to argue.  It isn't worth commenting on besides saying those things aren't even related and you know it.  

 

Really...mail service?  If people can't pray before a game they won't go?  Now that is mature.  You have outdone yourself.  I thought I was reading something my kids would say with arms folded and a pout.  If I can't have candy then she can't wear her jacket in the snow...lol.  Same type of logic...lol.

So, when Christians are forced to obey the law, it "hurts" them? What a bunch of anarchists.

Originally Posted by lexum:

frog, are you saying your insistance of no prayer is not SILLY?


It would seem that way only to someone who feels that insisting that everyone else pray as s/he does is reasonable and fair.  To the rest of the population it is that or whatever other word a particular person wants to use.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post

×
×
×
×