Frog trust me it will all work out. You atheist have won the battle. No pray’n at Brooks.
Jeremy Green will pass out a couple of coats and a sack full of beenie weenies. Dark angle will go to Aldis, sack up a few specials. The stuff will eventually go to the Salvation Army where folks are trained in benevolence and the Greenies will poke their chests out and holler suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuweeeeeeeeeeee.
Semi, apparently football means more to them than their religious convictions.
As someone who is concerned with how we are going to keep the hungry feed and warm this winter, I am offended that they are making money on t-shirt sales in hopes of raising enough to hire a lawyer and do away with our 1st Amendment rights.Of course this is all in vain. There is no way this will happen. They are so worked up that they are even more delusional and illogical than ever.
The hate this group is spewing, and the threats they are using to intimidate those of us that are dedicated to upholding the Constitution, is down right scary.
I may agree with part of your post, but remember, you are now trying to tell others what to do with their money. (I disgree with their take on this also) and in so doing trying to take away their rights to spend at their discretion.
Well dog, I am as moral or more so than the christians. I'd say more. Anyway, could you answer my question-can we disobey a law because we think it is unjust? Yes or no.
In my opinion, YES. Apparently the courts, on occasion, do as well. Otherwise, jury nullification wouldn't exist.
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Then in my opinion you have no right to ever complain when someone breaks any law.
You need to do more studying on the subject before commenting so absurdly.
What's absurd about it? You apparently think if you don't like a law you don't have to obey it, but you'd have a problem with someone else thinking that. Sounds like you're the one with the absurd opinion.
These people are misguided, but now William Valentine is not even allowing a moment of silence. I'm not sure why. Is this Valentine's Idea? The FFRF's idea? Green's idea? Whose idea? Other schools allow this time for reflection or whatever one wishes to call it.
William Valentine is not running for re-election, but he has hurt other school board members in not giving them advance notice of his news release. Please don't judge the entire board on Valentine's actions.
Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:
I may agree with part of your post, but remember, you are now trying to tell others what to do with their money. (I disgree with their take on this also) and in so doing trying to take away their rights to spend at their discretion.
________________________
Where is Dark saying she wants to tell others what to do with their money??? What I read was that she's offended that they're making money on t-shirts when there's much more important things that the money could be used for.
Can someone quote me a Bible verse that says forming a gang and hiring a lawyer to get to pray over loudspeakers in that situation is the blessed and Christian thing to do? No one said don't pray.
I think it's in the book of Genesis where it says to form a group on a Facebook page, search the internet for the best lawyer that you can find, and sell t-shirts so that the lawyer can be paid to go and make it legal to pray over a school funded PA system!
Seriously, you people don't like their cause so you call it un Christian if they do not do as you see fit with the money that they raise, can you not think of a better argument?
Can someone quote me a Bible verse that says forming a gang and hiring a lawyer to get to pray over loudspeakers in that situation is the blessed and Christian thing to do? No one said don't pray.
I think it's in the book of Genesis where it says to form a group on a Facebook page, search the internet for the best lawyer that you can find, and sell t-shirts so that the lawyer can be paid to go and make it legal to pray over a school funded PA system!
Seriously, you people don't like their cause so you call it un Christian if they do not do as you see fit with the money that they raise, can you not think of a better argument?
I don't personally care what they do with their money as long as it's legal, and I never said I did. The un-Christian part is the nastiness and threats to boycott people based on religion or other threats made to anyone. That is not helpful or kind whichever side does it.
These people are misguided, but now William Valentine is not even allowing a moment of silence. I'm not sure why. Is this Valentine's Idea? The FFRF's idea? Green's idea? Whose idea? Other schools allow this time for reflection or whatever one wishes to call it.
William Valentine is not running for re-election, but he has hurt other school board members in not giving them advance notice of his news release. Please don't judge the entire board on Valentine's actions.
I can't see why Greene would care about a moment of silence...? I have no idea on the others. I don't see how a moment of silence is a bad thing...hmmm.
the Greenies will poke their chests out and holler suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuweeeeeeeeeeee.
Hurmmm? When did I become a greenie?
the Greenies will poke their chests out and holler suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuweeeeeeeeeeee.
Hurmmm? When did I become a greenie?
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Crusty, have you checked your PM's in the last few days?
Seriously, you people don't like their cause so you call it un Christian if they do not do as you see fit with the money that they raise, can you not think of a better argument?
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The point that some of us was trying to make was that instead of throwing money away to try & change a law that could take years & thousands of dollars was to use the money instead to feed/cloth the poor & homeless.
If a Christian doesn't see that, then by all means, use the money to sue!
Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:
I may agree with part of your post, but remember, you are now trying to tell others what to do with their money. (I disgree with their take on this also) and in so doing trying to take away their rights to spend at their discretion.
________________________
Where is Dark saying she wants to tell others what to do with their money??? What I read was that she's offended that they're making money on t-shirts when there's much more important things that the money could be used for.
Semi, that's a judgment on her part. I said I agreed, but is it our place to judge how others spend their money?
Semi, that's a judgement on her part. I said I agreed, but is it our place to judge how others spend their money?
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Christians judge Atheist, non-believers, & doubters every day. I don't think she was judging by saying she was offended & giving her opinion as to what was more important that the money could be used for.
That's my opinion, Dark may not agree that's what she meant.
Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:
I may agree with part of your post, but remember, you are now trying to tell others what to do with their money. (I disgree with their take on this also) and in so doing trying to take away their rights to spend at their discretion.
________________________
Where is Dark saying she wants to tell others what to do with their money??? What I read was that she's offended that they're making money on t-shirts when there's much more important things that the money could be used for.
Semi, that's a judgment on her part. I said I agreed, but is it our place to judge how others spend their money?
____________________________
Since I am not a Christian, I judge at will. 
I think its tasteless and very telling that they all go on and on about Jesus and his work and then worry more about whether they can pray to a captive audience over a PA system than what this kind of effort could do for the unfortunate and the ones that their Jesus told them to care for. I for one don't take anything they say seriously. You are either a Christian or you are not. Pick one and stick to it. I might have a little more respect for some of them if they did.
So normally I don't tell people what to do with their money, but in this case since they are all insisting they are doing God's work I think they should actually put their money where their mouth is.
FTR, Dark, I agree that some "Christians" are notorious for their not putting their money where their mouth is--see anti-abortionists who don't help the poor. I still have no right to tell anyone what they can say on FB or how they can use their presumably hard-earned money.
We can comment all we want on how this group is not thinking before they speak, but we can't tell them they can't do it. At least that's what I remember from government class 30 years ago.
FTR, Dark, I agree that some "Christians" are notorious for their not putting their money where their mouth is--see anti-abortionists who don't help the poor. I still have no right to tell anyone what they can say on FB or how they can use their presumably hard-earned money.
We can comment all we want on how this group is not thinking before they speak, but we can't tell them they can't do it. At least that's what I remember from government class 30 years ago.
____________________
I did not tell them they can't do it. That would be silly and very presumptuous of me to think that I could. I have absolutely no power or control over the idiotic stuff they post on FB. I also have no control over where their money goes, so I can't tell them what to do with it. I CAN say that I think what they are saying is ridiculous and what they are doing with the money is a huge waste when it could be used for so much good.
I do believe that is a comment Fire. Not a forced directive.
Well dog, I am as moral or more so than the christians. I'd say more. Anyway, could you answer my question-can we disobey a law because we think it is unjust? Yes or no.
In my opinion, YES. Apparently the courts, on occasion, do as well. Otherwise, jury nullification wouldn't exist.
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Then in my opinion you have no right to ever complain when someone breaks any law.
You need to do more studying on the subject before commenting so absurdly.
What's absurd about it? You apparently think if you don't like a law you don't have to obey it, but you'd have a problem with someone else thinking that. Sounds like you're the one with the absurd opinion.
Once again, you ASSume too much.
And in MY opinion, that atheist group that puts up billboards all over the place is wasting money that could be used to help the poor too.
And in MY opinion, that atheist group that puts up billboards all over the place is wasting money that could be used to help the poor too.
I'm not sure which ones you mean, but if they are anything that isn't helpful I don't see the point either. If they have a number to call for support or provide information or something similar cool, but I would wonder if they equal the numbers of signs up to make sure people are saved.
I figure we can all keep arguing or we can learn to all live here peacefully together. Hasn't AL had enough history of hatred and bigotry that we haven't learned to see past color, religion, or other differences to practice some reasonable discourse and compassion for each other? I'm not referring to you personally in this comment, No, but just in general. We can unite or divide...what we we want our legacy to be in this life? We made the planet a bit better place or we got as many digs in or proved how right we were more times than our neighbor?
Frog, I'm just pointing out that lots of different groups, associations, clubs, AND individuals spend their money on things other than helping the poor. To single out this group selling t-shirts, saying they should be helping the poor instead of hiring a lawyer is hypocritical unless one spends every penny of discretionary income on charity. Anyone who has a big screen TV, an ATV, or any other "toy" is dishonest if they point fingers at others for "wasting" their own money.
These people are misguided, but now William Valentine is not even allowing a moment of silence. I'm not sure why. Is this Valentine's Idea? The FFRF's idea? Green's idea? Whose idea? Other schools allow this time for reflection or whatever one wishes to call it...
===
You seem as paranoid and full of holes as Shoalanda (hmm...)
Mr. Green or FFRF had nothing to do with it. I think once they got clued in by James Irby on how illegal they've been and what the slap-down would be in continuing, they got so scared that they've chosen to instead go with an implicit moment of silence in between standing up ... and the national anthem LOL.
Effective immediately, football games are not to be opened with a prayer that is in anyway led, directed, organized, or encouraged by Lauderdale County Board of Education employees. To be clear. no employee may lead. direct. organize. or encourage prayer. Personnel may neither advance nor inhibit prayer.
Additionally, no student, parent, volunteer, or anyone else may use the public address system of the stadium or school to lead, direct, organize, or encourage prayer.
To that end, football games are to be opened with the following announcement by the public address system's designated announcer:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, please stand ............................... and now,our NationalAnthem."
(The announcer should give an appropriate amount of time for the crowd to prepare for the presentation of the National Anthem.)
Frog, I'm just pointing out that lots of different groups, associations, clubs, AND individuals spend their money on things other than helping the poor. To single out this group selling t-shirts, saying they should be helping the poor instead of hiring a lawyer is hypocritical unless one spends every penny of discretionary income on charity. Anyone who has a big screen TV, an ATV, or any other "toy" is dishonest if they point fingers at others for "wasting" their own money.
Well, I think the implied and sometimes outright statement that they are in some way better or have higher standards than others who aren't Christian kind of puts them at risk for being scrutinized a bit more than those who just do their thing and don't try to tell others what is right. Yes, of course all the groups you mentioned above "waste" money in one way or another I suppose...but if they aren't telling others how lacking they are in values and morals it comes across a bit differently.
I think personally if they want to use it for that, fine, but really if the fight is over them getting to pray over a loudspeaker they might want to get used to being called out for not doing something "Christian" with it. Doesn't matter to me personally in the least what they do with it if it isn't illegal.
good grief frog you people have won the prayer at Brooks battle; what else do you want, a pound of flesh?
good grief frog you people have won the prayer at Brooks battle; what else do you want, a pound of flesh?
Was that a joke or serious? Just checking...I would just like to see people being kind to one another and not being hateful based on what church someone goes to or doesn't. Or maybe you were joking?
" ...but if they aren't telling others how lacking they are in values and morals it comes across a bit differently."
Frog, in this very thread there are many posts from ATHEISTS doing exactly that. DA and Jennifer constantly claim that they are more "moral" than Christians. Sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And for atheists to tell Christians that they should be held to a higher standard is laughable. We should be held to a higher standard because........we are "delusional"?
good grief frog you people have won the prayer at Brooks battle; what else do you want, a pound of flesh?
***
We did not win. The abused and vilified Mr. Green, who was simply seeking to have the constitution honored and respected, is the clear winner here. The losers are the tunnel-visioned throwbacks who refused to intelligently acknowledge the obvious violation by the school system, something that anyone with a computer and a desire to understand could have found out in a few minutes of Googling.
These people are misguided, but now William Valentine is not even allowing a moment of silence. I'm not sure why. Is this Valentine's Idea? The FFRF's idea? Green's idea? Whose idea? Other schools allow this time for reflection or whatever one wishes to call it...
===
You seem as paranoid and full of holes as Shoalanda (hmm...)
Mr. Green or FFRF had nothing to do with it. I think once they got clued in by James Irby on how illegal they've been and what the slap-down would be in continuing, they got so scared that they've chosen to instead go with an implicit moment of silence in between standing up ... and the national anthem LOL.
Effective immediately, football games are not to be opened with a prayer that is in anyway led, directed, organized, or encouraged by Lauderdale County Board of Education employees. To be clear. no employee may lead. direct. organize. or encourage prayer. Personnel may neither advance nor inhibit prayer.
Additionally, no student, parent, volunteer, or anyone else may use the public address system of the stadium or school to lead, direct, organize, or encourage prayer.
To that end, football games are to be opened with the following announcement by the public address system's designated announcer:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, please stand ............................... and now,our NationalAnthem."
(The announcer should give an appropriate amount of time for the crowd to prepare for the presentation of the National Anthem.)
I made a big mistake in high school and took French instead of Latin. What does A. Robustus mean?
" ...but if they aren't telling others how lacking they are in values and morals it comes across a bit differently."
Frog, in this very thread there are many posts from ATHEISTS doing exactly that. DA and Jennifer constantly claim that they are more "moral" than Christians. Sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And for atheists to tell Christians that they should be held to a higher standard is laughable. We should be held to a higher standard because........we are "delusional"?
No, I wasn't saying I hold them to a higher standard. I was saying that they have said they do since atheists lie or the other things that atheists are regularly accused of by some who believe they are lacking or lost or have no morals. Remember the thread on values and some said that morals come from God or whatever the exact topic was? And all the comments about how atheists this or that or how they lie that was said on a different thread? These comments are scattered all over here so I don't have the exact quotes to give you. Then on a bigger stage we have people in Congress doing all kinds of things as they proclaim how awful others are who do them. That was what I was referring to, actually.
I'm not sitting here saying that my religion or my morals are better than any other groups', but it doesn't mean I don't have morals or values. It just means I'm not sitting here telling you that atheists have better morals and how evil it is when Christians do this or that. My point was that everyone does things that are wrong and most waste money in someone else's eyes, but since you have no idea what I buy and I'm not tell everyone how I am tied to the only right God and follow the only right book, it tends to come across a bit differently. I didn't say anyone should be held to a higher standard...that is what some Christians say when they keep on about how atheists are somehow inferior and do all those awful things that Christians don't. If they don't hold themselves to a higher standard than why think atheists don't have standards and just do whatever they want? So of course when they do get caught the reaction is a bit different sometimes. Doesn't mean that any group is better or does less wrong, though.
And I didn't speak for anyone but myself. I'm no better than anyone else and I do awesome and not so awesome things every day. So I personally wasn't holding anyone to anything...was just referring to what I have read from some here and experience as well. I didn't ever say anyone was delusional, and I do understand why some believe one way and some another way. I don't even think this relates to religion completely anyway, but just as much who a person is. One person can be atheist and pleasant, intelligent, funny, and tolerant of others, and can have an open mind, while another be rude and annoyingly close-minded. The same goes for Christians and every other religion and group on the planet. I'm not classifying anyone here at any point on the spectrum, but just saying that is how it goes.
So you're saying that those who claim to be more "moral" than others had best watch what they say and do, lest people judge them harshly for their "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude?
You have indeed seen posts from SOME Christians on this forum claiming that God has given them better morals than others. But you have ALSO seen posts from SOME atheists who claim THEY are more moral than Christians.
So far, it looks like both groups contain individuals who are equally guilty. Therefore, the entire point is moot.
So you're saying that those who claim to be more "moral" than others had best watch what they say and do, lest people judge them harshly for their "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude?
You have indeed seen posts from SOME Christians on this forum claiming that God has given them better morals than others. But you have ALSO seen posts from SOME atheists who claim THEY are more moral than Christians.
So far, it looks like both groups contain individuals who are equally guilty. Therefore, the entire point is moot.
Yes, that is what I was saying and you said it well. And yes, I have seen posts from all sides that said things like that, and I agree and said before that all groups have members who say things that aren't in the best interest of understanding and cooperation. It is easy for anyone to get caught up in the heat of the moment, and that happens as well.
I don't think it is moot since in real life there is a problem as well. Until all sides act like thinking adults and compromise, treat each other with respect, and deal with things that really matter according to all sides, there will be nastiness and innocent people (like the kids and those who are trying to have a business or just live their lives) will suffer. We don't have to point fingers, but we can instead work together. No one in our community has to be hungry or freezing, and it just depends on where our focus is what gets done here.
An "example" of what ohno? I meant what I posted.
An "example" of what ohno? I meant what I posted.
___________________________________________________________________________
See what I mean, Frog?
See what I mean frog, see what I mean? blah blah blah blah!
An "example" of what ohno? I meant what I posted.
___________________________________________________________________________
See what I mean, Frog?
Gotcha!!...feel better now? I have said many times on this forum that I see things come from all sides, so why the need to point it out to me? It has come from more than one on all sides...have I said that enough yet?
Just pointing it out, Frog. There are some Christians on this forum with whom I have disagreed sharply. When they say something outrageous, I have called them out on it. Just wondering why none of the atheists on the forum ever object to some of the more outrageous posts by other atheists.
Bestworking is the "most moral" on the forum.
good grief frog you people have won the prayer at Brooks battle; what else do you want, a pound of flesh?
***
"We did not win. The abused and vilified Mr. Green, who was simply seeking to have the constitution honored and respected",[contendah said]
==========================================================
now thats funny 
Good grief...what a mare's nest.
Please remember that there are nuts in every group...within every group are individuals who should be seen as individuals, not judged on the behavior of others in the group. This goes for Christians, Atheists, Humanists, Muslims, Southerners, Northerners, etc. Stop judging A by what B has done. If you do, it reveals something very ugly in you. Congratulations.
Personally, I think many of you need some chill out time.
good grief frog you people have won the prayer at Brooks battle; what else do you want, a pound of flesh?
***
"We did not win. The abused and vilified Mr. Green, who was simply seeking to have the constitution honored and respected",[contendah said]
==========================================================
now thats funny
And just what is "funny" about it? Do you deny that Mr. Green has been abused and vilified? If so, go to the Facebook page on this topic and read what has been posted there by ignorant theocrats.
How easy, and how cheap and puerile it is, lexum, for polemically incompetent persons such as yourself to post cutesy little nothings in attempted response to others who are making specific points of argument.
Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.
Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?
Non of you that’s how many.
I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.
Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.
****
Your request is a sloppy device apparently intended to create an analogy between the establishment clause of the First Amendment and the provision in Article I, Section 8 granting the Congress the authority "to establish post offices and post roads." Your attempt fails miserably, since there is nothing whatsoever in Article I, Section 8 that establishes any nexus whatsoever between the delivery of mail and the religious beliefs (or unbelief) of any citizen to whom mail might be delivered. There is, in fact, no overt or implied constitutional prohibition of delivery of mail to any citizen or organization. Al Capone and Joe Dimaggio had equal rights to the U.S. Mail.
In other words, your argument is absurdly shallow, utterly irrational and entirely lacking in merit.
Truly, "It don't make a lick of sense." It "don't make a lick of sense" for you to object to a citizen's efforts to have government officials in the county where he lives abide by the law of the land. It does "make a lick of sense" for responsible public school system authorities to have abandoned the unconstitutional practice of allowing sectarian prayer to be offered over the PA system at school stadiums. And it "don't make a lick of sense" for those who don't like this outcome to attack those school officials for doing the right thing.
Just pointing it out, Frog. There are some Christians on this forum with whom I have disagreed sharply. When they say something outrageous, I have called them out on it.
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O No, my friend, I used to love to read your post putting Bill in his place because you were right on in most of them. He used to say horrible things to you.
He's still doing it, judging others, making fun, & beating them over the head with his type of Christianity. But for some reason, you don't call him out on it anymore. In fact, most of the Christians here just let him slide as though it's ok & it shouldn't be.
Been thinking about you, hope you're feeling better.
semi, we gave up. Most of us have tried to talk sense into him over the years. He will not hear us. Please don't take our silence as condoning his methods; we certainly do not. Can I just say that I love it that you call anybody on anything? I really do appreciate that, even when it's me.
And in MY opinion, that atheist group that puts up billboards all over the place is wasting money that could be used to help the poor too.
That is absolutely right. Now let's take a look at those palatial mega-churches and great whacking big steel crosses planted into mountainsides in parts of the bible belt. How 'bout that great big 'football jesus' failure?
I dunno what it costs to rent a billboard for awhile, but I'm sure it's pretty inconsequential compared to what it cost to pay for architects, construction crews, lumberyards, brickmasons, plumbers, electricians, designer lighting supply houses, sound system equipment and installers, landscapers, sculptors, welders and painters among the myriad other support and consultation personnel involved in designing and building these colossal churches and monuments. Nevermind the utility bills for keeping these huge white elephants heated and lit all the time.
Wonder how many homeless and needy people could be fed and clothed if these chuches just decided to rent a storefront or put up a tent?
Probably quite a few.
Granted, two wrongs don't make a right-but three rights DO make a left.
Wonder how many homeless and needy people could be fed and clothed if these chuches just decided to rent a storefront or put up a tent?
Probably quite a few.
______________________________________
Don't forget those $300.00 uniforms for each choir member, & $2000.00 suits for the Pastor the church has to pay for.
I remember going to Tent Revivals as a child. 
semi, we gave up. Most of us have tried to talk sense into him over the years. He will not hear us. Please don't take our silence as condoning his methods; we certainly do not. Can I just say that I love it that you call anybody on anything? I really do appreciate that, even when it's me.
______________________________________
Wow! I'm speechless! 
Semi, I too realized there was no way I would ever change Bills mind about things. I got tired of fighting, so I PM'ed Bill and we called a truce. We agreed to disagree, and have been very civil to each other ever since. Bill IS a Christian, even if some folks don't think he displays Christian behavior sometimes. And you know what? The same could be said for every Christian on the planet.
I TRIED to call a truce with Jennifer, if you'll remember, and for your sake as well as in an effort to cut back on all the fighting. But she would have no part of it. So MY times of "not displaying Christian behavior" are usually in posts to Jennifer. Is it right? Well, yes and no. I will ALWAYS call BS where I see it, so there are times when I just HAVE to disagree with her.
Could I do it in a less confrontational way? Well, yes. But those times I TRIED, she came back at me with extreme nastiness, or refused to answer at all. I think others here can remember the times I have prefaced my remarks, "Jennifer, I'm not being snarky at all, but I do have an honest question".
So, although I am a Christian, I am also human, and just as susceptable to anger, or perhaps a better word would be annoyance, as any other human being. When one has TRIED, and continues to face snippy, snarky, insulting and often UNTRUE remarks, it tends to wear on one.
Thanks for asking about me - I think I'm feeling a little bit better. It's going to take a while, but concern from my friends helps.
First of all ono I have told you I have no interest at all in discussing anything with you but you persist. That is why you get the reaction you do from me. Now it is no secret to you or me that you love to see it when someone goes after me, and you love to jump in on it. Latest example, buttercup. Other examples, cage and your bestest pal in the world rum mama. You never have an "honest" question to ask me, you just want to fight OR tell me why you're so wonderful and right about something and I'm so "bitter, hateful, blah blah blah blah" and wrong in the way I see things. You go through these spells when you just want to fight with me and you start up. I know exactly what you want and you're not going to get it from me. And for some reason you think you're the only one that can call BS on something, anyone else doing it is, again, hatefilled, bitter, and the standard list of ono's snarky adjectives.
Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.
Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?
Non of you that’s how many.
I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.
Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.
****
Your request is a sloppy device apparently intended to create an analogy between the establishment clause of the First Amendment and the provision in Article I, Section 8 granting the Congress the authority "to establish post offices and post roads." Your attempt fails miserably, since there is nothing whatsoever in Article I, Section 8 that establishes any nexus whatsoever between the delivery of mail and the religious beliefs (or unbelief) of any citizen to whom mail might be delivered. There is, in fact, no overt or implied constitutional prohibition of delivery of mail to any citizen or organization. Al Capone and Joe Dimaggio had equal rights to the U.S. Mail.
In other words, your argument is absurdly shallow, utterly irrational and entirely lacking in merit.
Truly, "It don't make a lick of sense." It "don't make a lick of sense" for you to object to a citizen's efforts to have government officials in the county where he lives abide by the law of the land. It does "make a lick of sense" for responsible public school system authorities to have abandoned the unconstitutional practice of allowing sectarian prayer to be offered over the PA system at school stadiums. And it "don't make a lick of sense" for those who don't like this outcome to attack those school officials for doing the right thing.
==============================
Contendah you totally miss the point, it OFFENDS ME that the US POSTAL SERVICE delivers mail to atheists. I'M OFFENDED get it???? It's unconstitutional for me to be OFFENDED. I can't pursue happiness lying there in my bed at nite knowing there is a postman somewhere in the US busy on federal property assisting in the delivery of mail to atheists. It don't make a lick if sense that I should suffer this abuse.
Tell you what buffalo, contact the government, tell them to stop taxing me to give to that money pit called the usps, and they can stop my mail delivery. Not only do I pay taxes but anything I mail or ship from the post office, or anything that comes to me through the post office, has been paid for. Why should I have to pay taxes, yet pay to ship packages and buy stamps too?
Best, look at all the people you have hurt over this prayer issue just to satisfy a handful of atheists that don’t even attend the games.
Now that you all have won I wonder how many of you will buy season tickets now in support of your victory each year this prayer ban is in force?
Non of you that’s how many.
I tell you what, it offends me that the US Postal Service delivers mail to any atheist owned business. To show you want to be fair and reciprocate have your mail voluntarily stopped. After it’s Federal money being used for atheist religion.
Is my request unfair best? I know it don’t make a lick of sense but neither does yours.
****
Your request is a sloppy device apparently intended to create an analogy between the establishment clause of the First Amendment and the provision in Article I, Section 8 granting the Congress the authority "to establish post offices and post roads." Your attempt fails miserably, since there is nothing whatsoever in Article I, Section 8 that establishes any nexus whatsoever between the delivery of mail and the religious beliefs (or unbelief) of any citizen to whom mail might be delivered. There is, in fact, no overt or implied constitutional prohibition of delivery of mail to any citizen or organization. Al Capone and Joe Dimaggio had equal rights to the U.S. Mail.
In other words, your argument is absurdly shallow, utterly irrational and entirely lacking in merit.
Truly, "It don't make a lick of sense." It "don't make a lick of sense" for you to object to a citizen's efforts to have government officials in the county where he lives abide by the law of the land. It does "make a lick of sense" for responsible public school system authorities to have abandoned the unconstitutional practice of allowing sectarian prayer to be offered over the PA system at school stadiums. And it "don't make a lick of sense" for those who don't like this outcome to attack those school officials for doing the right thing.
==============================
Contendah you totally miss the point, it OFFENDS ME that the US POSTAL SERVICE delivers mail to atheists. I'M OFFENDED get it???? It's unconstitutional for me to be OFFENDED. I can't pursue happiness lying there in my bed at nite knowing there is a postman somewhere in the US busy on federal property assisting in the delivery of mail to atheists. It don't make a lick if sense that I should suffer this abuse.
You are the expert on offense. You are one of the of the most offensive people around.
Contendah you totally miss the point, it OFFENDS ME that the US POSTAL SERVICE delivers mail to atheists. I'M OFFENDED get it???? It's unconstitutional for me to be OFFENDED. I can't pursue happiness lying there in my bed at nite knowing there is a postman somewhere in the US busy on federal property assisting in the delivery of mail to atheists. It don't make a lick if sense that I should suffer this abuse.
As absurd as this whole thing is, you still have something wrong that none of the others has pointed out to you which makes the USPS the worst possible example you could have used (not that your argument makes sense anyway) The USPS is unique among other government agencies in how it operates, the powers & privileges it has, and that it doesn't operate on taxpayer money except that it receives some taxpayer funding to cover the cost of free postage for all legally blind persons in the USA and to cover the cost of mailing in election ballots from U.S, Citizens living overseas. All of the other funding for the postal service comes from the sale of postal products such as stamps, boxes, envelopes, etc.
With the above said, since the funding for the postal service is CUSTOMER supported instead of TAXPAYER supported then none of us has a reason to protest who their services are available to.
1.) Its workers have no-layoff contracts
2.) No post office can be closed solely because it loses money
3.) As revealed by Bloomberg Businessweek, the postal service is so dependent on low-profit junk mail for revenue that it has its marketing officer lobby to banks to not switch to electronic statements
Those are pretty substantial facts that are more than likely contributing to the postal services’ downfall. Last year, the USPS lost $8 billion, and was kept alive by a $15 billion loan from the Treasury. With problems continuing to arise in 2011, the USPS is in danger of defaulting on those loans in October.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/...ness/a/uspsabout.htm
Contendah you totally miss the point, it OFFENDS ME that the US POSTAL SERVICE delivers mail to atheists. I'M OFFENDED get it???? It's unconstitutional for me to be OFFENDED. I can't pursue happiness lying there in my bed at nite knowing there is a postman somewhere in the US busy on federal property assisting in the delivery of mail to atheists. It don't make a lick if sense that I should suffer this abuse.
You have the RIGHT to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. You have NO RIGHT to actually BE happy.
This whole thread is a fine example of why religion is divisive and dangerous. Nothing is more dangerous than someone who is wrong who assumes that he is absolutely right, especially if he is also sure that "God" is on his side. History is full of examples.
This whole thread is a fine example of why religion is divisive and dangerous. Nothing is more dangerous than someone who is wrong who assumes that he is absolutely right, especially if he is also sure that "God" is on his side. History is full of examples.
Wouldn't you be more "in your mental league" at the Pokemon website, trading cards ?
This whole thread is a fine example of why religion is divisive and dangerous. Nothing is more dangerous than someone who is wrong who assumes that he is absolutely right, especially if he is also sure that "God" is on his side. History is full of examples.
Wouldn't you be more "in your mental league" at the Pokemon website, trading cards ?
And RP lets him "inner child" out to play again. You really don't understand much, do you, RP?
Contendah you totally miss the point, it OFFENDS ME that the US POSTAL SERVICE delivers mail to atheists. I'M OFFENDED get it???? It's unconstitutional for me to be OFFENDED. I can't pursue happiness lying there in my bed at nite knowing there is a postman somewhere in the US busy on federal property assisting in the delivery of mail to atheists. It don't make a lick if sense that I should suffer this abuse.
You have the RIGHT to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. You have NO RIGHT to actually BE happy.
***
Contrary to the blithering lexum posted, he has no constitutional right NOT to be "offended" on the basis of who does and who does not get mail.That is NOWHERE in the constitution.
Of course, lexum's device here is diminish the significance of Green's complaint by asserting that that Green was merely "offended" in some way. But if he was offended, it was for a reason traceable to the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Now lexum needs to tell us just what element of the Constitution protects HIS alleged right to be offended because some atheist gets his mail delivered.
With lexum, dogsoldier, we are dealing with a creature who has attained to a level of nincom****ery that has seldom been attained even on this nincom****-loaded forum.
Apparently 'p o o p' is censored. LMAO!
contendah, are you the betternu of previous times?
The fruity nutcake, Larry E Jaynes, is at it again on the Brooks Lions will pray page:
Regardless of how anyone may attempt to sugar coat a response to these angry atheist who are out to destroy your belief in God; realize this group of people are different from an atheist who does not believe in God and needs to be taught different. These people consider themselves to be less than human primates and not creations of God. They are embedding themselves into society among you armed with a tool Blair Scott, gave in the recent debate with Kyle Butt, when he assured the world that the angry atheist is obliged to lie if necessary. Members of this group actually participate in a “national blaspheming day” where they vocally blaspheme against the Holy spirit for “entertainment” here is a QUOTE from one of these angry atheists...
Then he quotes something from the Times Daily forum. Hmm...
Members of this group actually participate in a “national blaspheming day” where they vocally blaspheme against the Holy spirit for “entertainment” here is a QUOTE from one of these angry atheists...
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What national blashpheming day do we vocally blaspheme against his holy spirit? What a liar this man is.
adot, i thought you were going to try and do better.
contendah, are you the betternu of previous times?
***
Yes, and I have previously acknowledged this on the TD Forums. I am not operating under any kind of alias or deception. Indeed, as you anticipated, it is the very same articulate, grammatically pure, politically and religiously sublime, modest and humble ME! What is YOUR prior identity?
Members of this group actually participate in a “national blaspheming day” where they vocally blaspheme against the Holy spirit for “entertainment” here is a QUOTE from one of these angry atheists...
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What national blashpheming day do we vocally blaspheme against his holy spirit? What a liar this man is.
****
There IS such a thing as National Blaphemy Day.
Pfft! I blaspheme pretty much every day....
I think Contendah couldn't get in when the format changed in April and became someone else. Perhaps he chose that name in a rush and then decided on something else. Didn't bestworking do that?
contendah, are you the betternu of previous times?
***
Yes, and I have previously acknowledged this on the TD Forums. I am not operating under any kind of alias or deception. Indeed, as you anticipated, it is the very same articulate, grammatically pure, politically and religiously sublime, modest and humble ME! What is YOUR prior identity?
===========================================================
Tnx for clearing that up. I wasn’t sure. You seem to have joined joys church and that’s ok . Just wondering. Ok .huh? You appeared to have sided against the prayer at school issue.
quote: Originally Posted by _Joy_:semi, we gave up. Most of us have tried to talk sense into him over the years. He will not hear us. Please don't take our silence as condoning his methods; we certainly do not. Can I just say that I love it that you call anybody on anything? I really do appreciate that, even when it's me.
Yes, for the past five years I have shared my conservative Christian views and you have shared your liberal Christian views. You say you have called me a number of times. Just as a refresher -- specifically, with which of my conservative Christian beliefs do you disagree?
Do you disagree that we are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else?
Do you disagree that the Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God -- and the only authority for Christian teaching?
Do you disagree with my belief in the Trinity?
Do you disagree with my belief that there are only two eternal destinations -- heaven and hell -- and that ALL people will spend eternity in one or the other?
Possibly you disagree with my belief in the non-essential doctrines of eschatology, baptism, etc.
Or, possibly, you disagree with my belief that churches should, and must, teach about both heaven and hell?
Joy, you keep saying over and over again that you have called me. Please. Tell me exactly where and on what you have called me. Let's please clear the air.
Thank you and God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
You say you have called me a number of times. Just as a refresher -- specifically, with which of my conservative Christian beliefs do you disagree?
Bill
__________________________
Bill, which part of "Most of us have tried to talk sense into him over the years. He will not hear us" do you not understand????
Bill, I did not say I called you. I told semi that I appreciated her calling anybody on anything. I realize that makes most of your post pretty silly, but you did prove my point for me. READ my post.
I've told you many times I feel your methods are contrary to scripture; you never listen to me or other Christians who have told you this. Use the TVT's search feature to view any of those exchanges.
Bill, joy believes the exact same thing as you. She is jealous of you and constantly sides with the devil against you. Actually she is kicking Jesus in the face when she blasphemes you. Why do you keep arguing with her. She needs to examine her heart worse than DF. Gofish has already doomed himself.
contendah, are you the betternu of previous times?
***
Yes, and I have previously acknowledged this on the TD Forums. I am not operating under any kind of alias or deception. Indeed, as you anticipated, it is the very same articulate, grammatically pure, politically and religiously sublime, modest and humble ME! What is YOUR prior identity?
===========================================================
Tnx for clearing that up. I wasn’t sure. You seem to have joined joys church and that’s ok . Just wondering. Ok .huh? You appeared to have sided against the prayer at school issue.
***
I have no idea what church, mosque, or synagogue Joy is associated with and I do not know her except as a forum member. Yes, I am on the side of the Constitution on the school prayer issue. I am FOR compliance with the Constitution. I am a praying person and I respect the legitimate rights of others to pray. I do not agree with those who wish to foist their prayers on others in conjunction with gummint activities.
Contendah, I think you have sided against prayer in school just for the novelty of akin da fo and patting these alligator mouth atheists on the head is to show some kind of squeamish bravery that is not atall sellable to anyone.
The brainwashed fundies like lexum/Rram/Buff cannot imagine the reality that the Universe exists on its own terms, knowable to us all, and is irrespective to the gods we humans have invented.
I pity them. Still, I do not tolerate them, as they are dangerous. Their eschatological opinions are a serious threat to the survival of mankind and other species.
They are 400 years behind the times, yet enslaved to an even more ancient superstition. The time is now to break this evil and counterproductive cycle of magic thinking. There is no magic, just a scam that insists that it's real.
Jeremy Green is more of a prophet than Jesus. It's time to wake up. It's time to grasp reality for what it is, not what we'd prefer it to be. Do it now.
DF
Contendah, I think you have sided against prayer in school just for the novelty of akin da fo and patting these alligator mouth atheists on the head is to show some kind of squeamish bravery that is not atall sellable to anyone.
Is there anyone here Christian or atheist that doesn't think lexum is a blithering idiot?
The brainwashed fundies like lexum/Rram/Buff cannot imagine the reality that the Universe exists on its own terms, knowable to us all, and is irrespective to the gods we humans have invented.
I pity them. Still, I do not tolerate them, as they are dangerous. Their eschatological opinions are a serious threat to the survival of mankind and other species.
They are 400 years behind the times, yet enslaved to an even more ancient superstition. The time is now to break this evil and counterproductive cycle of magic thinking. There is no magic, just a scam that insists that it's real.
Jeremy Green is more of a prophet than Jesus. It's time to wake up. It's time to grasp reality for what it is, not what we'd prefer it to be. Do it now.
DF
From what I've read Jeremy Green is a liar at best who can't hold a job and lives with mommy and daddy. Not a prophet. Yes, I'm a fan of SS, but they really should have checked his "MBA" if she/he wanted to get a scoop. I don't think his latest stunt will win him any jobs in the area.
From what I've read Jeremy Green is a liar at best who can't hold a job and lives with mommy and daddy.
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Where did you hear this?
The brainwashed fundies like lexum/Rram/Buff cannot imagine the reality that the Universe exists on its own terms, knowable to us all, and is irrespective to the gods we humans have invented.
I pity them. Still, I do not tolerate them, as they are dangerous. Their eschatological opinions are a serious threat to the survival of mankind and other species.
They are 400 years behind the times, yet enslaved to an even more ancient superstition. The time is now to break this evil and counterproductive cycle of magic thinking. There is no magic, just a scam that insists that it's real.
Jeremy Green is more of a prophet than Jesus. It's time to wake up. It's time to grasp reality for what it is, not what we'd prefer it to be. Do it now.
DF
From what I've read Jeremy Green is a liar at best who can't hold a job and lives with mommy and daddy. Not a prophet. Yes, I'm a fan of SS, but they really should have checked his "MBA" if she/he wanted to get a scoop. I don't think his latest stunt will win him any jobs in the area.
_____________________________
He has a job remember? First SS got the part about his education wrong, then she lied about his employment. Since he does consultant work for Google I seriously doubt his job is in any kind of danger due to the crackpot Christians and their ravings here in our backwards little town. Many people who are educated and work in the web industry work from home. Its called trans-commuting or working remotely. After the worldwide exposure he got from this brave act, I am sure there will be many more opportunities open up to him. If I were him I would not want to work for any local businesses. He can do so much better.
Also I am not so sure about the prophet thing....he said this would be the outcome and he was right!
If the Founding Fathers had wanted religion to not be a part of government, they would have not had prayers at the initial confessional meetings. Today, every session of Congress and the Supreme court meetings begins with a prayer. The Founder fathers were not atheist but consisted of a diverse group of different religions who intended to keep religion in government, but you had your choice of which religion you wanted to be affiliated with.
If the Founding Fathers had wanted religion to not be a part of government, they would have not had prayers at the initial confessional meetings. Today, every session of Congress and the Supreme court meetings begins with a prayer. The Founder fathers were not atheist but consisted of a diverse group of different religions who intended to keep religion in government, but you had your choice of which religion you wanted to be affiliated with.
_________________________________
This is my favorite because the fundies can't try an interpret it to mean something it does not.
Treaty of Peace and Friendship Between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, 1796-1797
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion--as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims], ... ("Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between The United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary,"
The Founder fathers were not atheist but consisted of a diverse group of different religions who intended to keep religion in government, but you had your choice of which religion you wanted to be affiliated with.
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If you "had your choice" but they intended to keep religion in government, who decided which religion was to be kept in government? Just how would that work? They felt, and rightly so, that religion had no place in government. Sometimes people confuse the argument to think atheists are saying that they wanted NO religion at all. I'd argue that our "founding fathers" were way more tolerant of different religions and non-belief than the christians of today. Why do atheists post on a "religion" forum is the question ask a hundred times and answered a hundred times. This is one reason. We were intended as a country that would practice tolerance but we have/had groups that don't like that so it changed over the years to christians having free reign to use religion to oppress and discriminate against people that didn't believe, or didn't believe the way they think they should. It's time that changed.
_________________________________
Article 11 of that treaty is very controversial. Of course, non believers want to skew it to mean that the US was denouncing religion altogether, when in fact what is means is that religion would not be a basis for war. Good try though.
_________________________________
Article 11 of that treaty is very controversial. Of course, non believers want to skew it to mean that the US was denouncing religion altogether, when in fact what is means is that religion would not be a basis for war. Good try though.
No that is NOT what non-believers want it to mean. It means that this country, once again, was not founded on religion and even though the people were religious they were saying that they were not so rabid about it that they'd fight wars over it. But we all know where that went.
The brainwashed fundies like lexum/Rram/Buff cannot imagine the reality that the Universe exists on its own terms, knowable to us all, and is irrespective to the gods we humans have invented.
I pity them. Still, I do not tolerate them, as they are dangerous. Their eschatological opinions are a serious threat to the survival of mankind and other species.
They are 400 years behind the times, yet enslaved to an even more ancient superstition. The time is now to break this evil and counterproductive cycle of magic thinking. There is no magic, just a scam that insists that it's real.
Jeremy Green is more of a prophet than Jesus. It's time to wake up. It's time to grasp reality for what it is, not what we'd prefer it to be. Do it now.
DF
From what I've read Jeremy Green is a liar at best who can't hold a job and lives with mommy and daddy. Not a prophet. Yes, I'm a fan of SS, but they really should have checked his "MBA" if she/he wanted to get a scoop. I don't think his latest stunt will win him any jobs in the area.
_____________________________
He has a job remember? First SS got the part about his education wrong, then she lied about his employment. Since he does consultant work for Google I seriously doubt his job is in any kind of danger due to the crackpot Christians and their ravings here in our backwards little town. Many people who are educated and work in the web industry work from home. Its called trans-commuting or working remotely. After the worldwide exposure he got from this brave act, I am sure there will be many more opportunities open up to him. If I were him I would not want to work for any local businesses. He can do so much better.
Also I am not so sure about the prophet thing....he said this would be the outcome and he was right!
I assume that was directed at me. He says he has a job, but we know it isn't with Google, so he lied on his FB page. I know someone who knows him and says he can't hold a job due to his "problems." I think SS or anyone else can just google his job description and see that he is a sub contractor. I suppose he's a friend of yours. Good that you stand up for him, but please don't lie for him.
It doesn't take a prophet to know the school board will uphold the law. Anyone from Joe Blow the garbage man to Mayor Irorns could have called the board on this and "won." The school board was breaking the law. My two kids go to Florence city and as far as I know haven't had prayers at games in years. Just don't make a hero of a liar.
I assume that was directed at me. He says he has a job, but we know it isn't with Google, so he lied on his FB page. I know someone who knows him and says he can't hold a job due to his "problems." I think SS or anyone else can just google his job description and see that he is a sub contractor. I suppose he's a friend of yours. Good that you stand up for him, but please don't lie for him.
Odd that you would know someone that knows him so well that they can not only speak personally of mr. green's life and say he has problems, and feels comfortable enough with you to tell you things about mr. green. To me it sounds like someone wanting to make himself or herself important for a few minutes. When a person is doing work for any company, google or whatever, that is who they are working for. It doesn't matter how they came to be there.
Unless Google signs his paycheck, he's not working for Google. End of story. I rep six companies, but don't work for any of them. I work for myself.
Yes, people who know him will gossip about him. That's life. As for getting a job with another company and working at home, does he have any skills?
Someone should tell that man what his bible says about gossip. Doesn't matter what green does for a living or where he lives, and once more I'd ask how these great christian's lives could stand up under scrutiny.
Infomercial,
I can't conjure a more thread bare and ridiculous personal attack on someone than the one you've mounted and held against Mr. Green. I mean seriously, his personal life is somehow objectionable to you? And that's germane to any of this exactly how?
He's a patriot. Taking personal risk to uphold the Constitution, where others have looked away from illegal behavior for decades. You agree he's right about the law, so what exactly is the problem?
From what I've read Jeremy Green is a liar at best who can't hold a job and lives with mommy and daddy. Not a prophet. Yes, I'm a fan of SS, but they really should have checked his "MBA" if she/he wanted to get a scoop. I don't think his latest stunt will win him any jobs in the area.
_____________________________
He has a job remember? First SS got the part about his education wrong, then she lied about his employment. Since he does consultant work for Google I seriously doubt his job is in any kind of danger due to the crackpot Christians and their ravings here in our backwards little town. Many people who are educated and work in the web industry work from home. Its called trans-commuting or working remotely. After the worldwide exposure he got from this brave act, I am sure there will be many more opportunities open up to him. If I were him I would not want to work for any local businesses. He can do so much better.
Also I am not so sure about the prophet thing....he said this would be the outcome and he was right!
I assume that was directed at me. He says he has a job, but we know it isn't with Google, so he lied on his FB page. I know someone who knows him and says he can't hold a job due to his "problems." I think SS or anyone else can just google his job description and see that he is a sub contractor. I suppose he's a friend of yours. Good that you stand up for him, but please don't lie for him.
It doesn't take a prophet to know the school board will uphold the law. Anyone from Joe Blow the garbage man to Mayor Irorns could have called the board on this and "won." The school board was breaking the law. My two kids go to Florence city and as far as I know haven't had prayers at games in years. Just don't make a hero of a liar.
______________________________
Show me where I lied? Yes he is a friend and a very nice guy. The personal attacks that you and SS have launched at him reflect more on your own characters than his. Anytime I here someone say "I know someone that knows him and they said" I stop listening. That is just hen house gossip.
I was making a joke about the prophet bit. Oh wait...aren't you the one that can't get a grasp of how to use the emoticons? That would explain the misunderstanding I guess. The difference between Joe Blow, Mayor Irons, or you for that matter, and Mr. Green is that he actually had the guts to stand up and do something about those that were breaking the law. Mr. Green did not lie, doesn't really matter what he does for a living or where he lives though. Apparently you have nothing better to do than to spread gossip and innuendo about someone you don't personally know. What does that say about you info? He is the hero you wish you were.
DA what law? Is there a law against prayer at school? You keep saying that.
Who is breaking what law?
If the legislature were successful in passing a law that would make it unlawful for prayer anywhere that law would be unconstitutional and unjust. It would be your obligation to insist this unjust law be broken and further anyone wanting to pray should do so.
Further: Mr. Valentine needs to clarify why his decision that county school employees should not involve themselves in public prayer should not be seen as a threat of persecution.
You may take shots at Jeremy Green's job, it does not matter. If it had not been him, it would have been Joe Blow, or Mary Palooka, or Charlemagne Gonzales. The matter remains the same, public prayer in Jesus' name is inappropriate. Jeremy was simply the patriot who stepped forward. He is the man who is willing to take the arrows of the superstitious and UnAmerican until the righteousness of his actions sink in.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Jeremy is a totally unsavory person. By the way, he is nothing of the sort. However, taken that he is... so what? He STILL has a point. Ad hominem attacks simply demonstrate the inability of his detractors to present a reasonable argument based on the issue at hand. Every ad hominem attack on Jeremy is an arrow in his quiver.
Criticize his arguments--fair enough. Criticize the man--you lose.
DF
Further: Mr. Valentine needs to clarify why his decision that county school employees should not involve themselves in public prayer should not be seen as a threat of persecution.
****
Mr. Valentine's order appears clear: "Effective immediately, football games are not to be opened with a prayer that is in anyway led, directed, organized, or encouraged by Lauderdale County Board of Education employees."
School employees who disregard this instruction will in all likelihood be disciplined in some manner for insubordination, and they should be. Discipline is NOT "persecution." The order does not prevent employees from individually praying in a manner that is NOT associated with leading, directing, organizing, or encouraging religious expression at football games or other official school activities.
Too many of you deranged wingers are quick to classify anything that interferes with your unconstitutional notions of theocracy as "persecution." Your freedom to practice your religious beliefs is greater in this nation than anywhere else on earth. Whadda ya want? An egg in yer beer?
You may take shots at Jeremy Green's job, it does not matter. If it had not been him, it would have been Joe Blow, or Mary Palooka, or Charlemagne Gonzales. The matter remains the same, public prayer in Jesus' name is inappropriate. Jeremy was simply the patriot who stepped forward. He is the man who is willing to take the arrows of the superstitious and UnAmerican until the righteousness of his actions sink in.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Jeremy is a totally unsavory person. By the way, he is nothing of the sort. However, taken that he is... so what? He STILL has a point. Ad hominem attacks simply demonstrate the inability of his detractors to present a reasonable argument based on the issue at hand. Every ad hominem attack on Jeremy is an arrow in his quiver.
Criticize his arguments--fair enough. Criticize the man--you lose.
DF
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Is it just me or did one certain "loudmouth" drop this subject like a hot potato?
Further: Mr. Valentine needs to clarify why his decision that county school employees should not involve themselves in public prayer should not be seen as a threat of persecution.
****
Mr. Valentine's order appears clear: "Effective immediately, football games are not to be opened with a prayer that is in anyway led, directed, organized, or encouraged by Lauderdale County Board of Education employees."
School employees who disregard this instruction will in all likelihood be disciplined in some manner for insubordination, and they should be. Discipline is NOT "persecution." The order does not prevent employees from individually praying in a manner that is NOT associated with leading, directing, organizing, or encouraging religious expression at football games or other official school activities.
Too many of you deranged wingers are quick to classify anything that interferes with your unconstitutional notions of theocracy as "persecution." Your freedom to practice your religious beliefs is greater in this nation than anywhere else on earth. Whadda ya want? An egg in yer beer?
==================================================
vailed threat of percecution plain and clear contendah. Valentine is in direct violation of the U S Constitution. let me remind you of what it says:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
let me point out to you Contendah:
1. there is no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION
2. Mr. Valentine has in violation of the US Constitution sought to prohibit the free execercise of religion on the part of employees and in doing so affected the freedom of exercise on the part of citizens who elected him. He is sworn to uphold the Constitution and is in violation of that trust.
contenda if you cant see that plain and simple you simply just don't want to. Don't dig yourself any deeper in error than you already have. eating crow may not be to your taste.
on behalf of truth i demand you recant your poisition. [new word for the day]
Further: Mr. Valentine needs to clarify why his decision that county school employees should not involve themselves in public prayer should not be seen as a threat of persecution.
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Mr. Valentine's order appears clear: "Effective immediately, football games are not to be opened with a prayer that is in anyway led, directed, organized, or encouraged by Lauderdale County Board of Education employees."
School employees who disregard this instruction will in all likelihood be disciplined in some manner for insubordination, and they should be. Discipline is NOT "persecution." The order does not prevent employees from individually praying in a manner that is NOT associated with leading, directing, organizing, or encouraging religious expression at football games or other official school activities.
Too many of you deranged wingers are quick to classify anything that interferes with your unconstitutional notions of theocracy as "persecution." Your freedom to practice your religious beliefs is greater in this nation than anywhere else on earth. Whadda ya want? An egg in yer beer?
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vailed threat of percecution plain and clear contendah. Valentine is in direct violation of the U S Constitution. let me remind you of what it says:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
let me point out to you Contendah:
1. there is no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION
2. Mr. Valentine has in violation of the US Constitution sought to prohibit the free execercise of religion on the part of employees and in doing so affected the freedom of exercise on the part of citizens who elected him. He is sworn to uphold the Constitution and is in violation of that trust.
contenda if you cant see that plain and simple you simply just don't want to. Don't dig yourself any deeper in error than you already have. eating crow may not be to your taste.
on behalf of truth i demand you recant your poisition. [new word for the day]
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Demand all you wish, lexum; there is no reason for me to recant anything. "Free exercise" is not a concept that must be enfleshed within sectarian public actions of governmental authorities in order for the First Amendment to have practical validity. Your concept of free exercise is intolerably expansive and wholly out of line with a whole string of judicial decisions applying to the First Amendment. You and others who will simply not face up to this fact, continue to serve up your simplistic and wrongheaded guardhouse lawyer drivel in support of your untenable positions. You are on the losing side, plain and simple. You are hereby ordered to CEASE and DESIST!!!
By the way Dfat, I’ve been meaning to respond to a post of yours a few days back where you referred to me as a “fundie: be ye not deceived DF I consider it a compliment to be called a “fundie”.
I figure with my command of all disciplines of learning it should be a goal of yours to be one.
By the way +1 DF what is the metric upon which you declare someone a fundie?
I’ll bet you don’t know.
