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Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:

Jank, if it wasn’t a bias of race the shooter had against his victims, what was the motive?

 

You don’t seriously think robbery do you?  Why intentionally target and shoot the infant?  What possible threat did the infant present to the shooter?

 

Hatred, Jank. In it’s purest form.  The execution of an infant, NSDAP-style.

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Why would you believe it was racial? Just because the suspects are black?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you ask why would they kill the baby like that over money? Doesn't really make sense does it?

 

If they did this then I would say it was just pure evil. People that have no conscience and it would not have mattered what race the child was. If it was a hate crime why not kill them both? The mother was white. The baby was mixed.

 

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Isn’t one of the qualifiers for racial bias that the suspect and victim to be of different races.  I would feel the same way if the shooter was white and the victim was black but that’s an easy call isn’t it?

 

I don’t believe this was a random act.  I believe the shooter targeted his victim by race and not for robbery.  How much money do you think a mother pushing a stroller might carry with her?  No doubt the shooter passed up many more appealing opportunities to rob someone if financial gain was his motive.

 

Regarding the mixed race of the child.  I don’t know what the baby looked like but consider this...Obama is mixed yet his Negro genes are far more dominant than are his Caucasian...so much so he is referred to as our first black president with hardly a reference to him being half white.  On the other hand, we have all seen mixed races where Caucasian genes were dominant.  This may have been the case or not.

 

But that aside, nothing a pure racist hates more than those of mixed blood.  Those I have talked to speak of their race being betrayed by having an offspring of mixed blood.  They refer to the offspring as...well, I’ll just let that go.  And for clarification, have heard these comments from blacks as well as whites.  You may have heard similar comments yourself and nothing came of it.  But the difference is a pure racist will act on it somehow, someway.  May be verbal. May be physical.

 

The killer said he would shoot the baby.  That’s not a random act.  That’s premeditation.  There was nothing to be gained by shooting the child yet he shot the child anyway.  He shot the baby, a total stranger, in the face.  As he pointed his gun, he had to see the toddler’s eyes wide open in innocent curiosity or abject terror at the sounds of gunfire.  And then fully conscious of his feelings, the shooter pressed the trigger.  It was a deliberate decision.

 

What is a hate crime if it’s not personal and how much more personal can you get than shooting someone in the face at close range?

 

So my question still stands.  What was the shooter’s motive for executing the baby if not being racially biased?  It may not make sense, but neither does dragging a man behind a truck because he’s of a different race.  Hatred of that sort never makes any sense.  These suspects were easy to spot because their bodies were walking bill-boards of hatred.  Not all hate crime suspects are so accommodating.

 

Why not kill the mother?  Reports I heard on the news was that she was shot twice.  A bullet grazed her ear and she was hit in the foot.  Where I come from that is considered assault and battery with intent to kill.  By the way, I don’t think the shooter intended to shoot the mother in the foot.  I think he was trying to put another round in the baby and missed.

 

BTW.  I totally agree with the posters here who say why have hate crimes...murder is murder and murder is wrong no matter what the relationship between suspect and victim might be.

 

 Has anyone taken into consideration the age of said culprit. Kids(teenagers) do not have a truly developed sense of comprehension of the consequences of their actions. If he told the mother he was going to shoot the baby if she did not comply, and his un developed understanding of what he was doing,(killing an entirely innocent child) then he has no other care except to prove his point which is to follow through with his threat.

 I am sure that the law enforcement is taking into consideration the possibility that this incident was entirely fabricated by the mother, but had she been the one to do it then there would certainly be powder residue on her person. I certainly hope the investigators followed due diligence in eliminating her as a suspect. 

Originally Posted by unclegus:

 Has anyone taken into consideration the age of said culprit. Kids(teenagers) do not have a truly developed sense of comprehension of the consequences of their actions. If he told the mother he was going to shoot the baby if she did not comply, and his un developed understanding of what he was doing,(killing an entirely innocent child) then he has no other care except to prove his point which is to follow through with his threat.

 I am sure that the law enforcement is taking into consideration the possibility that this incident was entirely fabricated by the mother, but had she been the one to do it then there would certainly be powder residue on her person. I certainly hope the investigators followed due diligence in eliminating her as a suspect. 

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Well gus if he did shoot the child he's 17 years old.

I had stated the mother had a child who was murdered. This was incorrect. Her son was stabbed in self-defense after attacking a young black man while trying to rob him (He was part of a gang). This could be relevant.

 

As I understand the sequence, the shots were: ground, ear, leg/foot, child.

 

The woman also made a point to say she looked for a shell casing after the first shot and didn't see any. At that point I would have been taking off any jewelry I had on, not noticing shell casings that were or weren't there. One article said the "wound" on the woman's ear was scabbed over.

 

Brunswick is a very small town; I doubt when she was taken to the hospital that she was checked for GSR.

BRUNSWICK, Ga. - Police in Georgia say an anonymous tip helped them make arrests in the shooting death of baby who was killed in a stroller.

The Brunswick Police Department said Sunday that they got a tip that someone was crouched in the back seat of a vehicle as it drove away from the shooting on Thursday. The Glynn County detective's division spent hours following up on the tip and eventually arrested a 14-year-old suspect. The boy's statements led them to take 17-year-old De'Marquise Elkins into custody.

Elkins is charged with murder in the death of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago. The baby's mother, Sherry West, said she was walking home when Elkins and a younger boy approached and asked her for money.

Elkins' family says he did not shoot the baby.



Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/w...g.html#ixzz2OZj4BngM
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Brunswick mother certain suspect shot toddler

Family of 17-year-old accused of murder says he wasn't near scene

Published On: Mar 23 2013 03:29:01 PM EDT Updated On: Mar 24 2013 08:39:08 PM EDT

 

BRUNSWICK, Ga. -

The mother of a baby gunned down in his stroller says she has no doubt a teenage suspect is the man who killed her 13-month-old son, but family members say he wasn't anywhere near the scene.

 

"That's definitely him," Sherry West said Saturday when she saw the jail mugshot of 17-year-old De'Marquise Elkins, who is charged as an adult with first-degree murder. Police also arrested a 14-year-old who has not been identified because he's a minor.

 

The Brunswick Police Department said Sunday that they got a tip that someone was crouched in the back seat of a vehicle as it drove away from the shooting Thursday. The Glynn County detective's division spent hours following up on the tip and eventually arrested the 14-year-old. The boy's statements led them to take Elkins into custody.

 

"We're trying to determine which one actually was the shooter," police spokesman Todd Rhodes said Saturday.

 

But West said she was certain the gunman was the older suspect. "He killed my baby, and he shot me, too," she said.

 

On Thursday morning, West was pushing Antonio Santiago in his stroller after a trip to the post office. She said a teen, accompanied by a smaller boy, asked her for money.

 

"And he kept asking, and I just said, 'I don't have it.' And he said, 'Do you want me to kill your baby?' And I said, 'No, don't kill my baby!'" she said.

 

One of the teens fired four shots, then walked around to the stroller and shot the baby in the face.

 

Police announced the arrests of Elkins (pictured, right) and the 14-year-old Friday afternoon. But Elkins' older sister said her family knows he wasn't involved in the shooting.

 

"My brother wasn't anywhere near that area as far as we know — not the scene or the shooting," she said Saturday. She said she didn't know whether Elkins had a lawyer.

 

"He couldn't have done that to a little baby," she said. "My brother has a good heart."

 

She said her brother had been living in Atlanta and returned to Brunswick only a few months ago.

 

Typically, he would come by her house in the morning and they'd go to breakfast. But Friday morning, police came to her door as her brother was approaching along the sidewalk.

 

"The police came pointing a Taser at him, telling him to get on the ground," she said. "He said, 'What are you getting me for? Can you tell me what I did?'"

 

Elkins' Facebook page give a different picture of the teen, seemingly portraying himself as a gang member and containing this recent post: "ME IN MY (expletive) A TURN UR BLO5K IN TO MURDER SCENE."

 

On Saturday, police released recordings of three 911 calls made by West's neighbors right after the shooting.

 

One caller, sobbing, tells the operator she heard three gunshots.

 

"Is the baby bleeding? How close are you to them? How old does the baby look?" asks the dispatcher.

 

"He's in a stroller, he's got to be a toddler," said the caller. "The baby is on the ground now. The woman is over the baby."

 

The woman says she saw the mother lay the child on the ground to try to revive him with CPR.

"Yes, I heard the shots. Somebody shot this child," the caller said. "She's got him on the ground. Please, we need everything we can get."

 

One caller solemnly tells an operator: "No, the baby's not breathing." He says the child was shot "right between the eyes."

 

A woman can be heard screaming in the background just before police arrive and sirens drown out her cries.

 

No callers reported seeing the shootings, and police said the three calls were the only ones they knew of.

 

At her apartment Saturday, West had filled several bags with her son's clothes and diapers to donate to charity. She said she hopes prosecutors pursue the death penalty in the case.

"My baby will never be back again," West said, sobbing. "He took an innocent life. I want his life, too."

 

Debra Obley says she never imagined she'd have two ties to the investigation into the murder of the toddler.

 

"I feel sad I'm being threatened, yeah I'm being threatened by people saying they are going to kill me or have people to kill me, because I'm a snitch," said Obley.

 

Obley's nephew is the 14-year-old accused of being an accomplice to the murder.

She tells Channel 4 that she gave Elkins a ride from her mother's house, not knowing who he was.

 

"When he got in the car, he laid down in the backseat," said Obley. "He kept looking around, peeping up and I said, 'Boy, what you doing? You skipping school?' You know, he said 'No ma'am.'"

 

When she started asking for more questions, Obley said Elkins cut the ride short.

 

"When he got out of the car, he had something hid up in his pants. It was a gun," said Obley.

 

Obley says she felt something wasn't right, so she asked her nephew about it.

 

"I said...if you've got something to do with this little baby, you can't talk to me. I'm your auntie," said Obley. "He said 'Auntie, I don't even know the boy. I don't have anything to do with that.'"

 

Even though he wouldn't talk to her, Obley decided to talk to police. While it's hard to see her nephew behind bars, Obley said she feels she did the right thing.

 

"It's wrong. That was a baby. That baby can't come back," said Obley. "That mama will never get that baby back. Whoever did it deserves to be behind bars."

 

Obley said she doesn't believe her nephew would have fired at anyone. She hasn't talked with him since.

 

http://www.news4jax.com/news/B...xpw32bz/-/index.html

 

Originally Posted by unclegus:

 17 years old makes him old enough to pay for the crime he committed. being 17 years old does not necessarily mean he is a mature adult! Many adults do not have a full sense of responsibility all through their twenty's.

In fact this forum is proof that many adults never grow up!

It is this kind of BS that allows this stuff happen NO WAY you can tell me the shooter did not know right from wrong.  18 year olds are serving as U.S. service men and women and they are in cahrge of tanks, artillery etc.

Very odd. Most people have to be made to give up their loved one's belongings. We know she's led people to believe her older son was "murdered" when in fact he was killed while robbing a young man.

 

We've read three, no four, no five shots were fired. So how many were there? How old was the wound on her ear?

 

And if the attacker fired the first shot into the ground, and she looked for a casing and didn't see it, how could she even think it was a wooden gun?

I also think it is kind of odd that she had the baby cremated the very next day and had a memorial service the same day. I thought an autopsy was always performed on murder victims. Would they have had time to do that?

 

The other thing I find strange is when she tells the story and she says the boy told her to give him money or he was going to kill her baby and yet she still didn't hand over her purse. She always says that the boy TRIED to take her purse. What mother doesn't hand over their purse right away? She was talking to the media in her home just hours after the brutal murder of her child. Why? I understand if a child is missing and you want to get the word out and try and get your child returned. You should work with the media and any other means of getting the word out. But, her baby was dead. Why go on tv and give several interviews just hours after such a horrific loss? I would be bed ridden and hopefully knocked out by medication. Of course every person handles things differently.

 

It may have happened just like she said, but there have been some pretty strange details in this murder.

 

It feels kinda icky to even suspect her of lying about this, but my gut tells me that something is just not right about her story and actions.

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

I am surprised you are not outraged that they gave one of the boys name in the article. He has not been found guilty yet, so he could be innocent, right? Do you just reserve your outrage over identifying suspect for accused rapist?

 

In most instances it is common practice to list juveniles' names IF the crime they allegedly committed is a felony.

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

.

Here’s a story you won’t hear about in the mainstream media.

Bob Strait, 90, a veteran of the 101st Airborne, was married to his wife Nancy,

 85, for 65 years.

A few days ago, their home in Tulsa, Oklahoma was invaded by

Tyrone Dale David Woodfork, 20, a black thug armed with a BB gun.

Tyrone beat the aged couple and raped Nancy to death.

Our post-racial President has made no statement about this outrage.

And except for the local media in Oklahoma, no one has noticed.

 

 


If there was ever a case for a public hanging, this is it.  The rope should be replaced with barbed wire.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I've seen it asked but never answered, "what's a love crime"? It's stupid to label one a 'hate crime' and not another one that way when they all obviously are hate crimes. 

Are you referring to 'crimes of passion'?  EX:  You come home from work early and find your spouse in bed with your neighbor.  You pickup a handy butcher knife and make a nasty end of the affair.  You acted in the 'heat and passion of the moment' and did something you never thought yourself capable of.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

In one article I read, it was reported that "lab tests found traces of gunshot residue on swabs taken from the hands of West & the boy's father, Louis Santiago". Is that not evidence enough that the parents did it? If they didn't do it, why would they have gunshot residue on their hands?



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I saw that too. Only problem, the older kid's family tried to get rid of the gun, and did a few other things to tamper with evidence, and they say he had robbed and shot someone a month earlier.  It's all odd and I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It could be anything at this point, she could have hired the kids to do it. If you read my previous post you'll see I thought the mom's behavior was odd. It's a very strange case.

 

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The indictment by a Glynn County grand jury charges 17-year-old De'Marquise Elkins on 11 counts, including malice murder, in the slaying last Thursday of young Antonio Santiago a few blocks from his home in coastal Brunswick.

The same indictment, returned Wednesday, charged the suspect with shooting another person in an unrelated robbery attempt earlier this month.

 

 

The grand jury also indicted three of Elkins' relatives on charges that they tried to help him after the shootings.

The suspect's mother, Karimah Elkins, and older sister, Sabrina Elkins, were charged with evidence tampering. The indictment says they threw the revolver that police suspect was used in the shooting into a saltwater pond where investigators recovered it Tuesday. Doering said the gun is being tested to see if it can be linked to the child's slaying.

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/lati...oting/#ixzz2cL5BmAE2

 

 

 

 

Apparently they've tested the gun and it was the one used to kill the baby.

 

==================================

Superior Court Judge Stephen Kelley ruled Thursday that De’Marquise Elkins’ older sister, Sabrina, had the right to be tried in Glynn County, where she is charged with disposing of a revolver that police say was used the shootings. Her appointed lawyer, W. Frank Aspinwall, had never filed a motion for a change of venue and told Kelley Thursday that Sabrina Elkins did not want her trial moved.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/c...-tried#ixzz2cLG6Ipgg

 

Thursday’s rulings means there will be four separate trials in the shootings and subsequent events.

De’Marquise Elkins’ aunt, Katrina Elkins, had already won the right to be tried separately on a charge that she lied to police by giving a false alibi for him. His mother is also charged with providing a false alibi and with throwing the gun in a pond.




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