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Another governor is proposing to cut teacher and public employee benefits. AFSCME and SEIU are outraged.

"A choice moving forward on whether to contribute 7% of pay to maintain the current benefit multiplier of 1.8% or to keep the current contribution level of 5%and face a reduced benefit multiplier of 1.5% moving forward.

New hires in the State Pension System would face a number of additional changes:
A 7% employee contribution would include a 1.5% benefit multiplier.
Vesting would increase from 5 to 10 years.
The average final salary would be based on the last 5 years instead of last 3 years.
COLA’s would be adjusted depending on the investment goals of the retirement system.

Retirees will be phased into to Medicare Part D by 2020."

http://www.afscmemd.org/index....76-a9fc-8da2669c71c0

How dare Governor O'Malley of Maryland suggest such an outrage! Oh, he's a Democrat! Nevermind!

Democrat -- a combination of three words. Demos -- archaic Greek for citizens or people. Cra(p)-- self explanatory. Tic(k) -- a small parasite that gorges itself on the blood of its host, while leaving behind a disease.
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quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
Further evidence that you really can't fix stupid. And what an appropriate avatar he has: a duck. It must be Daffy.
I

Yes, one can't fix stupid. Which, makes you a hopeless case! Now, as to my thread, I assume you have no intelligent comments as you lack the capacity or capability.

Its the duck from Groucho Marx's old show, "You Bet Your Life!"
quote:
Originally posted by elinterventor01:
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
Further evidence that you really can't fix stupid. And what an appropriate avatar he has: a duck. It must be Daffy.
I

Yes, one can't fix stupid. Which, makes you a hopeless case! Now, as to my thread, I assume you have no intelligent comments as you lack the capacity or capability.



Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Wondering??:
I find it amazing that in these United States of America, we can bail out careless, ruthless Wall Street, GIVE endless AID to other countries and yet be so ANTI WORKING CLASS. Who the hecks gonna PAY for all these freebies?

Freebies???
You mean like allowing double dipping into the retirement programs for state teachers and administrators? or perhaps the cadillac insurance plans with little persoanl repsonsibility (low deductibles and copays)? or perhaps the fact that they pay no state income tax on their retirment?
Freebies come in all sizes and types, and the AEA has doled out freebies from the Legislature for a long long time. Not to begrudge them what they should be paid, bur doing away with the DROP program was a step in the right direction for a state who does not have the funds to pay it. Continuing the mantra to "raise taxes on the rich" is a classic example of "let someone else pay". Lest you forget, they are already paying for the other "freebies" we are doling out in excessive fashion.
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by Wondering??:
I find it amazing that in these United States of America, we can bail out careless, ruthless Wall Street, GIVE endless AID to other countries and yet be so ANTI WORKING CLASS. Who the hecks gonna PAY for all these freebies?

quote:
Sez teyates:Freebies???
You mean like allowing double dipping into the retirement programs for state teachers and administrators? or perhaps the cadillac insurance plans with little persoanl repsonsibility (low deductibles and copays)? or perhaps the fact that they pay no state income tax on their retirment?
Freebies come in all sizes and types, and the AEA has doled out freebies from the Legislature for a long long time. Not to begrudge them what they should be paid, bur doing away with the DROP program was a step in the right direction for a state who does not have the funds to pay it. Continuing the mantra to "raise taxes on the rich" is a classic example of "let someone else pay". Lest you forget, they are already paying for the other "freebies" we are doling out in excessive fashion.

quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
Everyone's griping about 'teacher pay/benefits', but NO ONE has offered a viable 'solution'. Why is that?


Why cant we just pay teachers less? We already expect them to provide all their own supplies, even toilet paper, paying them less is just the obvious progression. Eventually , teaching will be a volunteer position, and the compensation will be free room and board.
I for one do not think that a teacher should be providing ANY of the supplies for his or her room. Parents already get a list of things whcih they are supposed to provide (ie, hand sanitizer, tissue, etc), and my wife and I have always provided those items and anything else they have asked for. If they are being forced to buy them, they should be reimbursed. Of course when I was in school the only thing a teacher really needed to teach was a chalkboard, chalk and an eraser. The books were provided by the state and we turned them in at the end of the year.
On the other hand, these teachers are well paid for their efforts, have a secure tenured position in most cases, and have a guaranteed retirement if they work the required amount of time. How many people in the state of Alabama can say they have those types of jobs? Yet those people that cannot even say that are being asked to not only provide for those who do, but also asked to pay taxes on retirement funds which they saved and paid into. State employees (teachers, administrators, etc) and retired railroad workers in the state of Alabama do not even pay taxes on retirement, have some of the lowest co-pays on cadillac insurance plans available, get a ton of state recognized holidays, and in most cases have a guaranteed tenured position. There is not a lot of sympathy for their cause to the average Alabamian, and their mantra of "raise taxes to fund it" is not going to go over to well with the vast majority of people in this state who actually realize how well these teachers have it made.
Last edited by teyates
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
I for one do not think that a teacher should be providing ANY of the supplies for his or her room. Parents already get a list of things whcih they are supposed to provide (ie, hand sanitizer, tissue, etc), and my wife and I have always provided those items and anything else they have asked for. If they are being forced to buy them, they should be reimbursed. Of course when I was in school the only thing a teacher really needed to teach was a chalkboard, chalk and an eraser. The books were provided by the state and we turned them in at the end of the year.
On the other hand, these teachers are well paid for thier efforts, have a secure tenured position in most cases, andhave a guaranteed retirement if they work the required amount of time. How many people in the state of Alabama can say they have those types of jobs? Yet those people that cannot even say they them are being asked to not only provide for those who do, but also asked to pay taxes on retirment funds which they saved and paid into. State employees (teachers, administrators, etc) and retired railroad workers in the state of Alabama do not even pay taxes on retirment, have some of the lowest co-pays on cadillac insurance plans available, get a ton of state recognized holidays, and in most cases have a guaranteed tenured position. There is not a lot of sympathy for their cause to the average Alabamian, and their mantra of "raise taxes to fund it" is not going to go over to well with the vast majority of people in this state who actually realize how well these teachers have it made.


How much do you think a teacher with a BS makes after 10 years?
With benefits, which includes a well funded retirtement program, and some of the best BC/BS insurance in the state of Alabama, and a chance at tenure, they average around $42K in gross receipts (not including their benefits, according to some sources I have seen.

This may not seem like a lot, but it is at least average for teacher reimbursementin the US, and is not in the bottom 20% of the states. Not only this, they pretty much knew this when they went into teaching and sought that as a career if they did any research. The problem is that you have to take the good with the bad. Excellent benefits and a pretty nice work schedule is nothing to be diminished.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
How much do you think a teacher with a BS makes after 10 years?


How much do you think a BS degreed medical technologist makes, 40-50 hours per week, no retirment plan and works 50% of the holidays and weekends?

How much do you think a person with a BA degree in business and finance makes as finance consultant or tax prep clerk?

How much does a BS degreed chemist who works for the chicken plant or food manufacturing service make?

It is an irrelevant question, until you look at the fact that all of these people I mentioned are responsibile for paying the retirement program of the teacher you mentioned, when many of these pople do not get the same luxury, and in most cases make the same or less.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
I for one do not think that a teacher should be providing ANY of the supplies for his or her room. Parents already get a list of things whcih they are supposed to provide (ie, hand sanitizer, tissue, etc), and my wife and I have always provided those items and anything else they have asked for. If they are being forced to buy them, they should be reimbursed. Of course when I was in school the only thing a teacher really needed to teach was a chalkboard, chalk and an eraser. The books were provided by the state and we turned them in at the end of the year.
On the other hand, these teachers are well paid for their efforts, have a secure tenured position in most cases, and have a guaranteed retirement if they work the required amount of time. How many people in the state of Alabama can say they have those types of jobs? Yet those people that cannot even say that are being asked to not only provide for those who do, but also asked to pay taxes on retirement funds which they saved and paid into. State employees (teachers, administrators, etc) and retired railroad workers in the state of Alabama do not even pay taxes on retirement, have some of the lowest co-pays on cadillac insurance plans available, get a ton of state recognized holidays, and in most cases have a guaranteed tenured position. There is not a lot of sympathy for their cause to the average Alabamian, and their mantra of "raise taxes to fund it" is not going to go over to well with the vast majority of people in this state who actually realize how well these teachers have it made.

I fully agree with you that teachers should not have to pay for classroom supplies out of their own pocket. On the other hand, I cannot imagine what they would need. As you stated, all I can remember a teacher needing was some chalk (probably erasable marker now), a note pad, and maybe a roll of toilet paper for some kid that got a runny nose.
However, I would take issue on the rest of your thoughts.
IMHO, it seems to me that the good benefits are there to make up for the low pay. It's a trade-off. Either pay a teacher a very good salary, and have fewer benefits, or pay them low and give good benefits .
Opposed to what appears to be poplar opinion, Alabama is NOT a separate planet. Teachers have to opportunity to take their skills to Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia and Florida, as well as pick up and move across country. Al is in competition for good teachers, and the salary and fringes should be at least as good, or better than the competition.
When I was a kid, I could look across the classroom and see my competition in the job market, but by the time I got out of college, I found that I was competing with people from an entire region. Nowdays, it seems our kids are competing on a global scale. I believe states are not unlike that, they must compete for good quality teachers at least on a national level, and if we fall short in Al, we will not always be rewarded with the better teaching skills.

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