The essence of religion and faith is the inability to prove any of it. You have to ask yourself how far you can travel without proof of your destination. If you can go where the Bible goes, then by all means be a Christian. If you need tangible proof of every facet, then religion in general is not for you.
Remember, though, that some of the finest minds our world has ever known, from Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus, to Tammet, Flew, and Hawking, have all spent enough time with the higher things of this world to know that there's something behind it. Of course, some of the finest minds of this world have also rejected the notion. If you would like, ascend to the heights they have attained and see for yourself, I believe they may easily be quoted as authoritative sources.
Still, if you don't feel like you can, at least ask yourself why. Is it because you would like someone to spell it out for you so you don't have to invest any effort? That's lazy. Does your pride keep you from it? That's ignorant. If neither of those things are your issue, then give the quest a try. You just may find that the gap between evidence and God is too far to jump. If it is, don't jump. If it's not, then jump. Either way, you can't walk across. You've got to jump at some point. It's simply incapable of being totally proven. If you want to use the Bible as a source for that, then Heb. 11.1 proves that you can't walk across (faith, which is completely devoid of tangible evidence, is the evidence). The moment you think you've concretely proven that God exists is the moment that God doesn't exist.
It's a choice. And, once you've made your decision, never, I'm dead serious, NEVER stop challenging yourself and others. It is just as pointless to blindly believe as it is to blindly reject.
quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
No, I think that award should go to the nuclear bomb or the printing press.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
I don't think I will have to go to my Bible to make sure,but,I believe that is suppose to be
"THY KINGDOM COME,THY WILL BE DONE" on earth as it is in Heaven.If you're gonna quote scriptures....get'em right!!!!!!!
??????????????????????????????????????????????
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Hey bluesmann and yo brotha, glad to see free thinkers. Have you 2 ever noticed that when you ask a question like this one, all the religious fanatics can do is quote a book? It's a book. Thats all it is. Pieces of paper with a back and a cover. to answer your question, NO, there is no proof and there will never be any proof. You know why? Because it's a myth. Thats all. There could possibly be life after death, but more than likely its not possible. Your thoughts are caused by your brain recieving functions, and when you die that no longer is possible, so you do the math. This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...
You idiot..God is the only one that sees the soul...I hope He overlooks yours...the human eye
doesn't see the soul,because,when you die,the Angels come down from Heaven to take the souls to "Heaven's Bus Stop"to wait on a ride to Judgement Day.....what's the matter with you??
Religious fanatic = Anti-religion fanatic
quote:Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
Yea and if you have children or a child and you still don't believe ,you are in a world of hurt when it comes to your own death!!!!
quote:Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer to this question,it is best to let everyone believe as they will and not try to shove your belief down their throat.
Just like with Adam & Eve...God made the rooster,then took it's rib to create the hen ,who laid the egg that birthed the first chick,& so on & so forth.......nuff said...
quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..Motha's goin to Hell!
quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
And Kindred Spirit, faith is in no way, shape, or form proof of anything......Sorry....
Mack, put radiation in a box, let me SEE it, FEEL it, SMELL it... nope, no can do, only a certain monitor can pick that up.
Electricity.... put it in a box, JUST the electricity now, not wiring... let us touch it, feel it, SEE it... nope, you cannot do that unless the WIRES are there.
Put Natural Gas in a box, without the additives, and lets feel it... SEE it... smell it... NOTHING... only monitors can do that.
So you see, there are many things in this world that cannot be SEEN, cannot be FELT, cannot be smelled, but DOES exist.... especially God and faith in Him.
Exremely good points KS!!!!
GO PAWS!!!!!!!!
There are so many thoughts on this issue. There will never be any agreement between more than a few due to the fact that people are so miserable with thier life..They can't think of any thing that might give them some sort of faith let alone HOPE
There are so many thoughts on this issue. There will never be any agreement between more than a few due to the fact that people are so miserable with thier life..They can't think of any thing that might give them some sort of faith let alone HOPE
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer to this question,it is best to let everyone believe as they will and not try to shove your belief down their throat.
Just like with Adam & Eve...God made the rooster,then took it's rib to create the hen ,who laid the egg that birthed the first chick,& so on & so forth.......nuff said...
Of course there is an answer to the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg? The Egg. On the evolutionary timeline eggs predate chickens by a few million years.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
Right, it is not nice to judge, ain't Christian. If you take a look at the admonition it is Judge Not, lest you be judged yourself. What I said, is I JUDGE MY OWN SOUL as I judge the souls of others. For me, it is called having a conscience.
ONE more thought, I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE NICE.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..Motha's goin to Hell!
Yo brotha,
don't count on roasting for eternity, pawspalace is not GOD. He is not a messenger of God either. No true Christian would LAUGH OVER ANYONE GOING TO HELL.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
Yea and if you have children or a child and you still don't believe ,you are in a world of hurt when it comes to your own death!!!!
pawspalace,
I think it is easy to believe in a creator, if you have children, they were created by their mother. Since I know who created me, and my children, I have no problem believing in creation.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by one who posts:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Hey bluesmann and yo brotha, glad to see free thinkers. Have you 2 ever noticed that when you ask a question like this one, all the religious fanatics can do is quote a book? It's a book. Thats all it is. Pieces of paper with a back and a cover. to answer your question, NO, there is no proof and there will never be any proof. You know why? Because it's a myth. Thats all. There could possibly be life after death, but more than likely its not possible. Your thoughts are caused by your brain recieving functions, and when you die that no longer is possible, so you do the math. This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...
You idiot..God is the only one that sees the soul...I hope He overlooks yours...the human eye
doesn't see the soul,because,when you die,the Angels come down from Heaven to take the souls to "Heaven's Bus Stop"to wait on a ride to Judgement Day.....what's the matter with you??
Religious fanatic = Anti-religion fanatic
pawspalace,
Heaven's Bus Stop? Busses are machines created by men and women. When my personal argeggedon happens, I am NOT waiting for any bus.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
I don't think I will have to go to my Bible to make sure,but,I believe that is suppose to be
"THY KINGDOM COME,THY WILL BE DONE" on earth as it is in Heaven.If you're gonna quote scriptures....get'em right!!!!!!!
??????????????????????????????????????????????
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
I don't think I will have to go to my Bible to make sure,but,I believe that is suppose to be
"THY KINGDOM COME,THY WILL BE DONE" on earth as it is in Heaven.If you're gonna quote scriptures....get'em right!!!!!!!
??????????????????????????????????????????????
pawspalace,
I gotta admit I put the sentances in the wrong order. I checked, and in all 13 variations it was as you say it is. I stopped at 13, who has the time to look at more versions than that?
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
No, I think that award should go to the nuclear bomb or the printing press.
I don't recall the philosopher who said, If no God exists, man would need to invent one. And it seems that we needed to invent printing presses and nuclear bombs too.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
Yea and if you have children or a child and you still don't believe ,you are in a world of hurt when it comes to your own death!!!!
pawspalace,
I think it is easy to believe in a creator, if you have children, they were created by their mother. Since I know who created me, and my children, I have no problem believing in creation.
In a sense,yes,but,without God nothing is possible...with God,ALL things are possible.He is the Creator...the mother is the carrier of God's "MASTERPIECE"!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
Right, it is not nice to judge, ain't Christian. If you take a look at the admonition it is Judge Not, lest you be judged yourself. What I said, is I JUDGE MY OWN SOUL as I judge the souls of others. For me, it is called having a conscience.
ONE more thought, I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE NICE.
I understand about the"nice"part,but,who are you to Judge anyone's soul, with the exception of your own? I guess if you're judging in a positive way,you're safe there.I've just never liked to be judged & I don't judge others.That's all........
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..HA..Motha's goin to Hell!
Trust me,I,only, wrote that to see if you were awake.Sista dared me to do it
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
Yea and if you have children or a child and you still don't believe ,you are in a world of hurt when it comes to your own death!!!!
pawspalace,
I think it is easy to believe in a creator, if you have children, they were created by their mother. Since I know who created me, and my children, I have no problem believing in creation.
In a sense,yes,but,without God nothing is possible...with God,ALL things are possible.He is the Creator...the mother is the carrier of God's "MASTERPIECE"!!!!!!!
pay close attention pawspalace,
DON'T BE PUTTING MY MOTHER IN A SUBSERVIENT POSITION TO A GOD THAT CANNOT EVEN GET HIS FOLLOWERS TO STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.
And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.
Yea and if you have children or a child and you still don't believe ,you are in a world of hurt when it comes to your own death!!!!
pawspalace,
I think it is easy to believe in a creator, if you have children, they were created by their mother. Since I know who created me, and my children, I have no problem believing in creation.
In a sense,yes,but,without God nothing is possible...with God,ALL things are possible.He is the Creator...the mother is the carrier of God's "MASTERPIECE"!!!!!!!
pay close attention pawspalace,
DON'T BE PUTTING MY MOTHER IN A SUBSERVIENT POSITION TO A GOD THAT CANNOT EVEN GET HIS FOLLOWERS TO STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER.
You'll have to excuse me while I get my dictionary out.......o.k.,now....wait is that like jumping ship???? Anyway,this has nothing to do with God not being in control of his followers....Dummy....that's the Devil working overtime!!!!! They'll wish they'd never bought a gun,one day,believe me!!!!!!!!!or whatever they're doing to kill.........
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
Right, it is not nice to judge, ain't Christian. If you take a look at the admonition it is Judge Not, lest you be judged yourself. What I said, is I JUDGE MY OWN SOUL as I judge the souls of others. For me, it is called having a conscience.
ONE more thought, I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE NICE.
I understand about the"nice"part,but,who are you to Judge anyone's soul, with the exception of your own? I guess if you're judging in a positive way,you're safe there.I've just never liked to be judged & I don't judge others.That's all........
pawspalace,
It would seem that you and I are defining soul differently. I have always considered the soul of a person a sum total of his person. The two parts of a human, Body and Soul. That part of a person that may be judged by God is the part that is NOT body. Soul and Mind, nearly synonomous. "Judge the quality of a man by the quality of his soul, not the color of his skin. "Every one is judged according to the nature and quality of his soul, ..." Emanuel Swedenborg - 1841
"Why do you judge a man when he is all wrapped up like a parcel? ... What sort
of soul does he have? Is his soul a beautiful one, able, happily endowed ..." Michael Andrew Screech - 1991
Now, it is impossible to ever truly know what a man has hidden in his heart, but by his works you may judge him.
By the way pawspalace, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible, King James or Berkley, Revised Standard or New King James if you want to swap quotations. I might even go to the inspired writings of Samuel Clemmons, or even Plato. THE WISDOM OF THE AGES IS NOT CONFINED TO ANY ONE BOOK, OR COLLECTION OF ESSAYS.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
Right, it is not nice to judge, ain't Christian. If you take a look at the admonition it is Judge Not, lest you be judged yourself. What I said, is I JUDGE MY OWN SOUL as I judge the souls of others. For me, it is called having a conscience.
ONE more thought, I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE NICE.
I understand about the"nice"part,but,who are you to Judge anyone's soul, with the exception of your own? I guess if you're judging in a positive way,you're safe there.I've just never liked to be judged & I don't judge others.That's all........
pawspalace,
It would seem that you and I are defining soul differently. I have always considered the soul of a person a sum total of his person. The two parts of a human, Body and Soul. That part of a person that may be judged by God is the part that is NOT body. Soul and Mind, nearly synonomous. "Judge the quality of a man by the quality of his soul, not the color of his skin. "Every one is judged according to the nature and quality of his soul, ..." Emanuel Swedenborg - 1841
"Why do you judge a man when he is all wrapped up like a parcel? ... What sort
of soul does he have? Is his soul a beautiful one, able, happily endowed ..." Michael Andrew Screech - 1991
Now, it is impossible to ever truly know what a man has hidden in his heart, but by his works you may judge him.
By the way pawspalace, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible, King James or Berkley, Revised Standard or New King James if you want to swap quotations. I might even go to the inspired writings of Samuel Clemmons, or even Plato. THE WISDOM OF THE AGES IS NOT CONFINED TO ANY ONE BOOK, OR COLLECTION OF ESSAYS.
Look ED,these folks have never been to one of my family reunions so I can't speak for them,but,I think you spend entirely tooooo much time reading!!!!! Anyway,the Church of Christ believe we are all going to Hell,if we don't walk their straight & narrow...What about that??
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.
Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.
It isn't nice to Judge..that's not a Christian
way.....
Right, it is not nice to judge, ain't Christian. If you take a look at the admonition it is Judge Not, lest you be judged yourself. What I said, is I JUDGE MY OWN SOUL as I judge the souls of others. For me, it is called having a conscience.
ONE more thought, I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE NICE.
I understand about the"nice"part,but,who are you to Judge anyone's soul, with the exception of your own? I guess if you're judging in a positive way,you're safe there.I've just never liked to be judged & I don't judge others.That's all........
I may have already sent this, in a different form, but it vanished from my screen without confirmation.
pawspalace,
You and I are defining Soul Differently.
I consider the soul to be that part of a human being that drives his conscious actions. It is your soul that drives your actions.
A man is judged by the quality of his soul, not the color of his skin or the size of his bank account.
If you study carefully, the admonition to Judge not lest ye be judged yourslef is not directed to using your judgement to decide who to befriend and who to avoid, but against punishing people on the basis of your judgement of their actions. A narrow reading contradicts the admonition to judge the tree by its fruit. It is literally a commandment to draw conclusions about a person by his manner of living, the content of his soul, rather than the superficial facts of his religious beliefs, or origins.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:
You'll have to excuse me while I get my dictionary out.......o.k.,now....wait is that like jumping ship???? Anyway,this has nothing to do with God not being in control of his followers....Dummy....that's the Devil working overtime!!!!! They'll wish they'd never bought a gun,one day,believe me!!!!!!!!!or whatever they're doing to kill.........[/QUOTE]
pawspalace, that settles it for me. You worship and fear the devil. No point in continuing this conversation.
quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my ***
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my @#$$
HEY ED,PAWS AIN'T SCEERED A NOTHIN!!!! WELL,EXCEPT THE WRATH OF GOD!!!!!!!!!BE READY..
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my @#$$
HEY ED,PAWS AIN'T SCEERED A NOTHIN!!!! WELL,EXCEPT THE WRATH OF GOD!!!!!!!!!BE READY..
GOOD NIGHT SWEET PRINCE
WHO'S GONNA KEEP ME AWAKE,NOW?????????
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pawspalace:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pawspalace:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
pawspalace,
It would seem that you and I are defining soul differently. I have always considered the soul of a person a sum total of his person. The two parts of a human, Body and Soul. That part of a person that may be judged by God is the part that is NOT body. Soul and Mind, nearly synonomous. "Judge the quality of a man by the quality of his soul, not the color of his skin. "Every one is judged according to the nature and quality of his soul, ..." Emanuel Swedenborg - 1841
"Why do you judge a man when he is all wrapped up like a parcel? ... What sort
of soul does he have? Is his soul a beautiful one, able, happily endowed ..." Michael Andrew Screech - 1991
Now, it is impossible to ever truly know what a man has hidden in his heart, but by his works you may judge him.
By the way pawspalace, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible, King James or Berkley, Revised Standard or New King James if you want to swap quotations. I might even go to the inspired writings of Samuel Clemmons, or even Plato. THE WISDOM OF THE AGES IS NOT CONFINED TO ANY ONE BOOK, OR COLLECTION OF ESSAYS.
Look ED,these folks have never been to one of my family reunions so I can't speak for them,but,I think you spend entirely tooooo much time reading!!!!! Anyway,the Church of Christ believe we are all going to Hell,if we don't walk their straight & narrow...What about that??
I cannot argue that point. The Church of Christ indubitable believes that everyone who does not walk their straight and narrow is hell bound. It is a fundamental tennant. It is the same fundamental tennant in every religion.
I believe that Hell and Heaven exist on Earth. That is what I believe the Lord's Prayer teaches.
I am not in the communion of the Church of Christ. As I said earlier, My Daughter is a Priest of the Episcopal Church, but I and not of their communion either. I am quite sure that I read a lot, but to say I spend to much time reading is a stretch. Like I said, if you want to trade quotations, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible. I might even quote the Quran thogh it is not likely. I will NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE THE DEVIL HIS DUE. He has been conquered, according to Christian Scripture. TWICE if I recall correctly. I am willing to accept the Definition of God as triune, for the sake of arguement. But only for the sake of arguement. I find the concept of an all powerful God of Love impossible to accept, but I do find the concept of loving others easy to accept. You might define what I call love as respect, since I do not include homoring as a requirement for loving.
You and I are on very different paths. I find yours to be constraining, and faulty. You find mine to be unfettered, and libertine. I can't and won't try to change your concept of me, but I will defend my position.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my @#$$
pawspalace,
Don't take this personally, I am not trying to kick butt.
Kindred can tell you where I am coming from, she and I had a mutual friend, known as BARRISTER. Tis not of you and me I speak, but of the universal truths of human philosophy and law.
quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Do we not, or did we believe that Santa, the easter bunny were real and how about Halloween, when we were children, was that real, no. Is the birth of Christ was on Dec. 25th, by no means was it. Some believe that the the Sabbath begins on Saturday, others think it begins on Sunday, but again who knows because of how the calenders have changed from time to time.
Bluesman,
The Easter Bunny is a fertility symbol, and having been a rabbit rancher I can attest to the fact that the Easter Bunny is a SUPER symbol of fertility. Santa Claus is a "Real" Saint of the Roman, Greek Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Churches. His relics are kept at the Cathedral of Saint Nicholas in Bari, Italy where they have been held since the middle ages. They were transfered there from the city of Myrna where they were preserved by the Muslims who controlled the city. Portraits of him painted in life depict a Dark Skinned Curly haired bearded man. He was a Bishop of Rome, and is now the Patron Saint of Children, Young Women, Mariners, and Pawnbrokers. He is represented symbolically by three gold spheres, representing the gift of a dowery to three sisters. But, regarding Chimneys, Sleighs full of toys, flying reindeer, and elves at the North Pole, well, that is a fiction.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pawspalace:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pawspalace:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
pawspalace,
It would seem that you and I are defining soul differently. I have always considered the soul of a person a sum total of his person. The two parts of a human, Body and Soul. That part of a person that may be judged by God is the part that is NOT body. Soul and Mind, nearly synonomous. "Judge the quality of a man by the quality of his soul, not the color of his skin. "Every one is judged according to the nature and quality of his soul, ..." Emanuel Swedenborg - 1841
"Why do you judge a man when he is all wrapped up like a parcel? ... What sort
of soul does he have? Is his soul a beautiful one, able, happily endowed ..." Michael Andrew Screech - 1991
Now, it is impossible to ever truly know what a man has hidden in his heart, but by his works you may judge him.
By the way pawspalace, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible, King James or Berkley, Revised Standard or New King James if you want to swap quotations. I might even go to the inspired writings of Samuel Clemmons, or even Plato. THE WISDOM OF THE AGES IS NOT CONFINED TO ANY ONE BOOK, OR COLLECTION OF ESSAYS.
Look ED,these folks have never been to one of my family reunions so I can't speak for them,but,I think you spend entirely tooooo much time reading!!!!! Anyway,the Church of Christ believe we are all going to Hell,if we don't walk their straight & narrow...What about that??
I cannot argue that point. The Church of Christ indubitable believes that everyone who does not walk their straight and narrow is hell bound. It is a fundamental tennant. It is the same fundamental tennant in every religion.
I believe that Hell and Heaven exist on Earth. That is what I believe the Lord's Prayer teaches.
I am not in the communion of the Church of Christ. As I said earlier, My Daughter is a Priest of the Episcopal Church, but I and not of their communion either. I am quite sure that I read a lot, but to say I spend to much time reading is a stretch. Like I said, if you want to trade quotations, I will not be limited to the Christian Bible. I might even quote the Quran thogh it is not likely. I will NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE THE DEVIL HIS DUE. He has been conquered, according to Christian Scripture. TWICE if I recall correctly. I am willing to accept the Definition of God as triune, for the sake of arguement. But only for the sake of arguement. I find the concept of an all powerful God of Love impossible to accept, but I do find the concept of loving others easy to accept. You might define what I call love as respect, since I do not include homoring as a requirement for loving.
You and I are on very different paths. I find yours to be constraining, and faulty. You find mine to be unfettered, and libertine. I can't and won't try to change your concept of me, but I will defend my position.
I really don't think it has anything to do with paths.I am inclined to believe it is age differencial.Where do you find me faulty? oh yea,and I don't even know what unfettered means?
Libertine.....is that like "free at last"?I could be that,since I lost my shackles round about Halloween.My constrainer left
'OH,WHAT A RELIEF IT IS!!!!!!! And I wouldn't try to change your concept for anything....I mean...who would argue with me then????? 
I'm kiddin' ED....We are sharing opinions,huh?
welp,gotta get to work.....Have a wonderful day & will be watching for you a while later!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my @#$$
pawspalace,
Don't take this personally, I am not trying to kick butt.
Kindred can tell you where I am coming from, she and I had a mutual friend, known as BARRISTER. Tis not of you and me I speak, but of the universal truths of human philosophy and law.
This has nothing to do with philosophy or law to me...It is 50+yrs.of lifes learning lessons.
i have a mutual friend ,also...His name is Deputy Dog...Tis not of he or I,you speak,but that of the Senior Class of life.
quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:quote:Originally posted by pawspalace:quote:Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.
Hey bluesmann,where are you anyway????? you got this started & now Ed is wanting to kick my @#$$
pawspalace,
Don't take this personally, I am not trying to kick butt.
Kindred can tell you where I am coming from, she and I had a mutual friend, known as BARRISTER. Tis not of you and me I speak, but of the universal truths of human philosophy and law.
This has nothing to do with philosophy or law to me...It is 50+yrs.of lifes learning lessons.
i have a mutual friend ,also...His name is Deputy Dog...Tis not of he or I,you speak,but that of the Senior Class of life.
Well, it is from 60 plus years of life's experience I speak, and really, it is not personal with me. I just don't want the narrow, judgemental version of any religion going unchallenged. I am after all a moderatly liberal secular humanist.
quote:Originally posted by bubbawren:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"
It always amazes me when people blame God for all the bad things that happen in the world. What I do know is that the soul does exist. Each human being is made up of body, soul, and mind. If we only had a mind and a body, where would the compassion come from to help others during tragedies such as Katrina. Without a soul we would have no emotions. We would be plant life. The proof that souls exist comes from my study of God's Word. I have learned that God created the universe, including Heaven and Hell and all the inhabitants therein. Some of those inhabitants are Angels. If Angels exist, then I have no reason to believe that the soul does not exist. I know that Angels exist because I have been personally affected by one or more of them. In 1974, while swimming in Lake Guntersville, I started to cramp up and was unable to swim. My buddies were on the shore, but thought I was joking about not being able to swim back to shore. I went under once, twice, then the third time. As I prepared myself to die, I was suddenly snatched from the water by the strong hand of a fisherman hanging to the side of a boat. The boat dragged me to bank about a 100 yards from my friends. When they reached me and I explained to them about my near death experience and the subsequent rescue, they told me there was no boat in sight. It would seem that those responsible would have stayed around to accept a little praise from myself and the others, but they were no longer there. I've never been able to explain those events, except to say that it was a miracle performed by a God who cares for those He created. Amen!
I have NEVER blamed God for anything that has happened in my life... If it is my fault, I blame myself... If I allow someone to do something that hurts me, I also blame myself for my ignorance.
I didn't even blame God when my beloved Mom got sick with cancer, and just five months died. She was at peace with God, and was ready to go... it was hard for ME to let her go... but NO blame to my Maker for that, on her part nor on my part. I was just thankful for having such a loving Mom and such wonderful support for as many years as I was able to have it.
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Hey bluesmann and yo brotha, glad to see free thinkers. Have you 2 ever noticed that when you ask a question like this one, all the religious fanatics can do is quote a book? It's a book. Thats all it is. Pieces of paper with a back and a cover. to answer your question, NO, there is no proof and there will never be any proof. You know why? Because it's a myth. Thats all. There could possibly be life after death, but more than likely its not possible. Your thoughts are caused by your brain recieving functions, and when you die that no longer is possible, so you do the math. This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...
Religious fanatic = Anti-religion fanatic
Simple... but great point by "one who posts"!!!!
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:
The essence of religion and faith is the inability to prove any of it. You have to ask yourself how far you can travel without proof of your destination. If you can go where the Bible goes, then by all means be a Christian. If you need tangible proof of every facet, then religion in general is not for you.
Remember, though, that some of the finest minds our world has ever known, from Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus, to Tammet, Flew, and Hawking, have all spent enough time with the higher things of this world to know that there's something behind it. Of course, some of the finest minds of this world have also rejected the notion. If you would like, ascend to the heights they have attained and see for yourself, I believe they may easily be quoted as authoritative sources.
Still, if you don't feel like you can, at least ask yourself why. Is it because you would like someone to spell it out for you so you don't have to invest any effort? That's lazy. Does your pride keep you from it? That's ignorant. If neither of those things are your issue, then give the quest a try. You just may find that the gap between evidence and God is too far to jump. If it is, don't jump. If it's not, then jump. Either way, you can't walk across. You've got to jump at some point. It's simply incapable of being totally proven. If you want to use the Bible as a source for that, then Heb. 11.1 proves that you can't walk across (faith, which is completely devoid of tangible evidence, is the evidence). The moment you think you've concretely proven that God exists is the moment that God doesn't exist.
It's a choice. And, once you've made your decision, never, I'm dead serious, NEVER stop challenging yourself and others. It is just as pointless to blindly believe as it is to blindly reject.
Truly a great reply here, one who posts. I am not one of the genus' of the world, but I do see by NATURE alone that it has to be more than just a BIG BANG... one just has to watch the birth of a child, an animal... the clockwork before, during and after... and KNOW deep down that there was no Scientist (unless he was the father, lol) nor was there any BIG BANG that made everything work hundres of thousands times a day all over the world.
Nature, as in trees, grass, vegatable gardens, cotton farms... think the BIG BANK allows that seed to become the plant you want it to be? The food you chose for it to be out of a tiny seed? You may think so, I KNOW NOT.
Trees shedding leaves in the winter, dogs getting heavier coats... Dogs shedding in the spring, trees get their leaves back.... BIG BANG? Not in my opinion.
Two hundred years ago, with no lights, no television, no computers, no cars, nothing... Did the BIG BANG create all those little conveniences? I think not, I think God gave man a brain to be able to make life better for himself/herself...
You can disagree with me till the cows come in, and you will not sway my FAITH, it is part of ME.
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:quote:Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.
No, I think that award should go to the nuclear bomb or the printing press.
LOL, I agree!!