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Twas not I who called any forum silly. And as for being a city boy, I was raised on a Horse Ranch, with a Dairy farm to the west, and a sheep ranch to the north. I have worked cattle, on horsback. I have removed the saddle from many horses after a day of working them. I have watched horses past their prime break into a full gallop when the saddle was off, and the bridle removed. I have watched mules leave for a trip to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back, and Celebrate the end of the work day with vigourous play.
I have spent twelve hour days at hard labor and gone dancing till midnight at the end of those days.
There is no proof of heaven or hell. Near death experiences are just that, near death. People die all the time, and are revived who do not have them.
There is no record of Jesus' life, except for the bible, and an account from the Roman historian Josephus. Josephus' original works are long gone, and his account is a Medieval transcription, so it's authenticity is suspect.

The veracity of the bible is supposedly supported by prophesies that came true with Jesus. Where are the prophesies for today? The bible hasn't predicted anything for at least 2000 years... not electricity, not airplanes, not effective medicince, not Britney Spears. This should be troubling to believers.

Blues, there are dozens of "major" religions on earth, all of which have different views on the afterlife. At most, one of them is right. Pick one.

Or none. Live life for today, bud.

DF
sorry smurf, I must have crossed things up.

I think we have common ground. By the way, are you familiar with the Belgian Teams working the hardwood in Arkansas, Some of them are descendants of horses from my family's ranch. The specialy was draft horses. Mom Couldn't abide quarter horses, Dad would not deal with Thoroughbreads. So, it was Morgans and Belgiums. And daydreams of riding off in full armor to battle dragons.
Things not seen.

My Dad has told me about plowing with mules, He said that at times he would be walking behind the mule and suddenly the smell would be so bad it would make him sick.

Now he didn't see the smell or feel the smell. But he could smell what it smelled like.

That being said , what do you think it was?
There was no evidence other than a since of smell. He could not box it up,take a picture of it,but nevertheless it WAS there.

There are some things that are what they are. No one can PROVE what or where it came from. Sometimes, the only thing that can explained is that what our senses tell our brains. It is then left up to the person, to believe or not.

One I guess could decide the smell came from a old rock, or maybe an old rotten root.But the most logical, all be with no hard evidence.It was a mule poot.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Things not seen.

My Dad has told me about plowing with mules, He said that at times he would be walking behind the mule and suddenly the smell would be so bad it would make him sick.

Now he didn't see the smell or feel the smell. But he could smell what it smelled like.

That being said , what do you think it was?


Coulda been a poot. Might have been a rotting possum turned up by the plow. Therin lies the rub, If you know it did not smell like flatulence from a Mule, and you don't and you don't know what a rotting possum smells like, you might think it was a message from God. If you consider it a message from God, you get to decide what it means. Since it's bad enough to drive a vulture away, you might decide it means you should go home to lunch, with the mule, and come back after the danger you were warned about passed. Just like the Mule Gas. And, you get the day off for making that decision.
Naw,if it was a dead possom he would have seen the rotting carcus, and he had seen plenty of dead possoms so he would have known that smell.
He had also plowed thousands of acres and knew the look and smell of rotten wood. And the smell of newly turned earth.
So, He had in the past, saw evidence and smelled a mule's poot. This pointed him to the belief that althrough it could not be seen or heard or felt it must have came from the mule.
Silent and unseen can be the most deadlest.
quote:
Originally posted by bubbawren:

quote:
Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"


Do you understand the meaning of Grace? If not,enjoy the rest of your life here on earth. Because if not when your dead,your lifes all is all it wrote.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Things not seen.

My Dad has told me about plowing with mules, He said that at times he would be walking behind the mule and suddenly the smell would be so bad it would make him sick.

Now he didn't see the smell or feel the smell. But he could smell what it smelled like.

That being said , what do you think it was?
There was no evidence other than a since of smell. He could not box it up,take a picture of it,but nevertheless it WAS there.

There are some things that are what they are. No one can PROVE what or where it came from. Sometimes, the only thing that can explained is that what our senses tell our brains. It is then left up to the person, to believe or not.

One I guess could decide the smell came from a old rock, or maybe an old rotten root.But the most logical, all be with no hard evidence.It was a mule poot.


Mule poots weren't that bad
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.


yep,thats the sad part no proof! Look,start reading your bible,take alook around and look at what we really don't look at like the trees,grass, fresh air, you have to make peace with yourself and your GOD.read your bible you will find the answer.


Pba, it took me a week or more to find this, mostly because it was from October of 2005.
http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?899
Banner of Truth is a credible theological site. The article Here is a Response to the Roman Catholic Bishops of England,Wales and Scotland. As a Group they do not speak for the Catholic Church, but they do create a platform for discussion.
You could spend all your free time on Banner of Truth. It would probably dry you up till you drifed off in a gentle breeze. But do scan through this article.
Funny how people get all riled up over someone else's beliefs. I have a right to believe what I believe and no one can sway me from that. If someone wants to believe differently, that's their choice. But, I feel it is my duty to inform them of my beliefs, but not shove it down their throat. I will open the door, but it is their responsibility to go through it....

I am a Christian, I believe that God created the heavens and the earth, and that his son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross to save mankind from his sinful nature. I have faith that anyone who believes that and accepts it shall have everlasting life. My question is: Why not believe in something this good????
Yo Brotha,
The original intent of my post was to point out the futility of trying to convert someone else's beliefs, and the silliness of getting riled up over others comments on a forum. All this bickering and debating about whose beliefs are valid and who's right, IMHO, is a waste of time. Faith, religion, whatever you want to call it, is a personal choice.
I posted my beliefs because that's exactly what it is.....what i believe. I'm not knockin anyone else for their beliefs, because it is their right as an individual to worship/not worship however they choose to.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
quote:
Originally posted by bubbawren:

quote:
Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"


Do you understand the meaning of Grace? If not,enjoy the rest of your life here on earth. Because if not when your dead,your lifes all is all it wrote.


Good answer, themax... I agree.

Bubba, just what are WE even HERE for, if not to help the needy? Has people grown that greedy?
quote:
Originally posted by johnt:
Funny how people get all riled up over someone else's beliefs. I have a right to believe what I believe and no one can sway me from that. If someone wants to believe differently, that's their choice. But, I feel it is my duty to inform them of my beliefs, but not shove it down their throat. I will open the door, but it is their responsibility to go through it....

I am a Christian, I believe that God created the heavens and the earth, and that his son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross to save mankind from his sinful nature. I have faith that anyone who believes that and accepts it shall have everlasting life. My question is: Why not believe in something this good????


VERY well said!!! I can relate to this comment SO much!!! Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.


Wow, you were either very slow, or you guys had a very fast mule!!! All the MULE plowing I have ever seen the people barely walked behind the plow the mule was pulling... nope, no jogging, just walking the pace the mule wanted to walk.
quote:
Originally posted by Lurch:
Since were posting our beliefs, I believe in God, in heaven, but one thing gets me. Hell, do we really burn for all eternity? I've thought at times that maybe hell is being reincarnated on this Earth(which at times isn't far from hell) to finish what we started.


Lurch, I am a Christian, and have been all my life. I am over half a century old, and studied a lot about the Bible. My own personal belief about Hell is that no, there is no eternal fire, Hell is just GONE, no more, nothing.... Greek and Hebrew Bibles define it as a "pit or grave"... and the "lake of fire" you can read about in the Bible is just a symbolic statement. (my PERSONAL belief)

Hell... to cease life, to never exist again... while some of the people one loves DO continue on their faithful path and reach what God promised... and the one who is in "hell" just disappears out of their lives ... forever.
quote:
Originally posted by Lurch:
All our different beliefs, be them all different, show one thing. Hell is no place to end up. Thats all I need to know.


That is a VERY wise statement!!!

No way would I want to just not exist anymore and those I love continue to do so as promised by God or it would pain me horribly if one of the people I love to cease their existance to NEVER "BE" anymore. That WOULD be the worse kind of hell possible, in my opinion.

Those in my life who has already passed away, I KNOW that I shall see them again one day, and that is pure Heaven!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.


Wow, you were either very slow, or you guys had a very fast mule!!! All the MULE plowing I have ever seen the people barely walked behind the plow the mule was pulling... nope, no jogging, just walking the pace the mule wanted to walk.


A mare is a lady horse a mule is a hibread, and you don't knowe what you are talking about. Did you vote for Bush?
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.


Wow, you were either very slow, or you guys had a very fast mule!!! All the MULE plowing I have ever seen the people barely walked behind the plow the mule was pulling... nope, no jogging, just walking the pace the mule wanted to walk.


A mare is a lady horse a mule is a hibread, and you don't knowe what you are talking about. Did you vote for Bush?



Okay... my fault, I was reading over what you said, not really reading it, and missed the word MARE... sorry!

And did "I" vote for Bush? Have you ever read ANY of my replies on Politics? If you had, then you would already know the answer to that question... Sheeeshhh...

TOPIC HERE: HEAVEN OR HELL.. Sorry to get off topic everyone!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
quote:
Originally posted by bubbawren:

quote:
Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"


Do you understand the meaning of Grace? If not,enjoy the rest of your life here on earth. Because if not when your dead,your lifes all is all it wrote.


Good answer, themax... I agree.

Bubba, just what are WE even HERE for, if not to help the needy? Has people grown that greedy?

As a Secular Humanist, which leaves me just enough room to tollerate a possible creator, I find myself in total agreement with Kindred. Except I am not sure there is a what we are here for.
There are only two points for populations to rally round. One is The Nation, the other The Religion. Nations are bounded by borders. Religions are not. When Bolivia has a war with Venezuela, the only possible rally point is Nationalism. Both Countries are Roman Catholic.
When Isreal has a Beef with Palestine, the rally point is religion as well as Nationalism. In Iraq, the civil war has two sects of the same religion fighting. This motivates OUTSIDE forces to take sides on the basis of Religion. HEAVEN, HELL OR NOTHING. With Nothing, the civil War in Iraq has no grounds for continuing.
quote:
Originally posted by Lurch:
Since were posting our beliefs, I believe in God, in heaven, but one thing gets me. Hell, do we really burn for all eternity? I've thought at times that maybe hell is being reincarnated on this Earth(which at times isn't far from hell) to finish what we started.

if God Loves me, he wants me to be my best. Raising Hell does not bring out the best in anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by johnt:
Yo Brotha,
The original intent of my post was to point out the futility of trying to convert someone else's beliefs, and the silliness of getting riled up over others comments on a forum. All this bickering and debating about whose beliefs are valid and who's right, IMHO, is a waste of time. Faith, religion, whatever you want to call it, is a personal choice.
I posted my beliefs because that's exactly what it is.....what i believe. I'm not knockin anyone else for their beliefs, because it is their right as an individual to worship/not worship however they choose to.

I will try to keep your thoughts in mind the next time I hear the President say we are fighting in a great clash of cultures. Or we are fighting to preserve our way of life. OrTake to the Field for Mother, God and Country. The Easter Bunny was considered God...before Constantine. The God of Fertility for those who doubt. Belief in a falacy is DESTRUCTIVE TO LEARNING THE TRUTH.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.


Wow, you were either very slow, or you guys had a very fast mule!!! All the MULE plowing I have ever seen the people barely walked behind the plow the mule was pulling... nope, no jogging, just walking the pace the mule wanted to walk.


A mare is a lady horse a mule is a hibread, and you don't knowe what you are talking about. Did you vote for Bush?


Okay, I've been trying not to post so much, but I have to on this one.

When someone attempts to belittle another person on the grounds of ignorance, but includes an array of misspelled words, it seems to me to be a bit ironic. I'm sure you meant "female horse," as opposed to the backwoods "lady horse," "hybrid," and "know."

It should also be a bit strange to think that Kindred's knowledge of farm animals is indicative of him for whom she voted.

As I read your post, I am overwhelmed with gratitude for those who have devised our voting system. God help us all if people like you had to spell a candidate's name on a fill-in ballot.
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
[ Are you sure about the horse dancing after working 10-12 hours, or is it something you made up?]

obviously a "city boy" and has never even seen a horse up close much less after a long workout.
now remember it was you who pointed out our "silly" forums,so why not just run along to forums more stimulation for you.


It's been a long time since I was a boy, and never a city boy. We used mules. I did plow corn with a mare once, had to jog to keep up. You need to find a subject you know something about. Assuming there is one, and stick with it. Cowboys in the movies had horses. Farmers around here plowed their fields with mules.


Wow, you were either very slow, or you guys had a very fast mule!!! All the MULE plowing I have ever seen the people barely walked behind the plow the mule was pulling... nope, no jogging, just walking the pace the mule wanted to walk.


A mare is a lady horse a mule is a hibread, and you don't knowe what you are talking about. Did you vote for Bush?


Okay, I've been trying not to post so much, but I have to on this one.

When someone attempts to belittle another person on the grounds of ignorance, but includes an array of misspelled words, it seems to me to be a bit ironic. I'm sure you meant "female horse," as opposed to the backwoods "lady horse," "hybrid," and "know."

It should also be a bit strange to think that Kindred's knowledge of farm animals is indicative of him for whom she voted.

As I read your post, I am overwhelmed with gratitude for those who have devised our voting system. God help us all if people like you had to spell a candidate's name on a fill-in ballot.


Thank you, for your words of wisdom!!! Smiler
A good Christian friend (that's redundant, I am not friends with any bad Christians) Told me that even though I did not Know God exists, He Kenw I existed. I asked "who, you or God?" He said "God Silly." This gave me pause. I asked, "Does God know I exist because you told him, or does he know because he knows everthing?" My friend says "He knows, because he knows all." And I said, "So He knows I exist, because he knows all, then he must know I don't know He exists." My good friend agreed. Things get complicated here. I said, "If God knows I exist, and Knows I don't know he exists and wants me to worship him, why does he remain unknown to me?" My friend said, "What do you mean?" I said, "I know you exist, because you and I met, conversed, became friends, and know one another." My Friend said, "True." I said. "So why doesn't God introduce himself?" My friend said, "God does not work that way. Come to Church Sunday, and you will meet him." I did that, and at Church, a man in nice clothes, I was wearing nice clothes too, said, "Welcome to the House of the lord. Let us Pray." He then invited God to drop in and have a visit with his followers. I think he said something along the lines of Sheep of your Flock. All of us had our heads bowed and eyes closed, as is the custom. The fellow up front said the Amen, and we all raised our heads. I looked around and saw only regular looking people, and actually the same people I had seen before. God might have come in, and He could look normal, So I guessed that one of the people must be God, and since it was pretty quiet, I asked my friend if he knew which one was God. I was pretty anxious to meet this fella I heard loved me, and knew me and knew I did not know him. A strange look came over my friend's face, and he said, "hush. God is not like us."

The man up front made a 20 minute speech, about how Christians were charitable, and kind. That they gave of their talent and treasure so that the poor and the weak could live, and how the ushers would pass a plate for us to put money in so we could be good Christians. While this was going on, everyone sang a song together. I asked my friend if there was a set amount to put in the plate, and he said ten percent of what you have, or more. Well I gave more. I had a dollar and thirty cents, ten percent of that is 13 cents, and I could not make exact change, and since no one else took anything out of the plate, though some put in envelopes, most put in money. So, I gave a quarter, That was more than 13 cents, almost double. If I had had a penny I would have added it too. Then the man up front said something about the body and blood of Christ, and I got a little ill when I saw people lining up to Eat and Drink what the man said was the Body and Blood. I said to my friend, "Do I have to go up and eat?" My Friend said, "No, only the baptized do that." I thought, "good." After we left, I asked my friend, who had gone up to eat and drink, "Why did God Show up if you were going to KILL HIM, AND EAT HIM AND DRINK HIS BLOOD?" and I said, "I guess I am never going to get a chance to be acquainted with God, You guys Killed him this morning." My friend said it was all pretend. Well that did not satisfy me.

When I called the cops about the murder and the Canibalism, the Sergent who answered the phone told me they do that every week...WHERE ARE THEY GETTING ALL THESE GODS WHO COME AROUND TO BE EATERN?

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