Heaven Hell or Nothing

Religion is mans worst invention.

NDE's descriptions match similar descriptions in several old religious texts including tibetan and greek.

In the 20th century, official atheist beliefs accounted for about 150 million lives(communists). Fascism in Italy, also atheist, caused even more deaths.

The only evidence that could come close to proof are the accounts of people who claim to have had near death experiences. I'm not totally convinced this is proof or a trick of the brain in a traumatic state. If you don't have faith in either a religion that teaches there is something after death or a science that teaches there is nothing, you won't find out your answer until after you're dead.

Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.

And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.

quote:

Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
Religion is mans worst invention.

Oh I don't know about that. It's been a real money maker.

Just for thought. What if that old Peggy Lee song is right?
"Is that all there is"?
What, as the song suggests, this exhistance is all there is? Just for instance.
Do we have to behave or act better because of the promise of an afterlife? Or can we just be better? WOW!

quote:

Originally posted by bluesmann:
Is there any proof outside of the Bible that Heaven, Hell or Nothing exist. I tend to beleive that there is a Heaven and a Hell, but like most that have doubts, is the grave the end. And what about the near death experiences that Raymond Moody has wrote about in some of his books, and the book by Betty Eadie called "Embraced by the Light". With so many religions beleiving in so many things, is there really life after death, or have for so many years we have been deceived? Oh, I know we must have faith, but beyond faith, is there any proof that after we past on, that we really go on beyond this life.

yep,thats the sad part no proof! Look,start reading your bible,take alook around and look at what we really don't look at like the trees,grass, fresh air, you have to make peace with yourself and your GOD.read your bible you will find the answer.

For Bluesmann:
I am sad that you like many others have doubts about what lies beyond this life. The Bible makes it clear that there is a life, eternal, either in Heaven with Christ, or in Hell without Christ. The best account of someone talking about death cannot be found in any of Raymond Moody's books, but in the Book of Luke, Chapter 16, verses 19-31. This is an account of a man, referred to in this passage as a "rich man", who died and was allowed to see those that had gone to Heaven from his destination which was described as "the place of the dead". He begged for mercy to Abraham in Heaven that Lazarus, the beggar with sores who ate crumbs outside the rich man's house, be allowed to come and dip his finger in water and cool the tongue of the rich man. If you believe that the scriptures are the true and inerrant Word of God, this is a true account of a real life situation. No fiction here. I pray that you will accept the truth of this story as you read it and that your doubts will turn to security in the knowledge that you can trust in God to take you to a place that Jesus has prepared for those who trust Him and believe.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbawren:
For Bluesmann:
I am sad that you like many others have doubts about what lies beyond this life. The Bible makes it clear that there is a life, eternal, either in Heaven with Christ, or in Hell without Christ. The best account of someone talking about death cannot be found in any of Raymond Moody's books, but in the Book of Luke, Chapter 16, verses 19-31. This is an account of a man, referred to in this passage as a "rich man", who died and was allowed to see those that had gone to Heaven from his destination which was described as "the place of the dead". He begged for mercy to Abraham in Heaven that Lazarus, the beggar with sores who ate crumbs outside the rich man's house, be allowed to come and dip his finger in water and cool the tongue of the rich man. If you believe that the scriptures are the true and inerrant Word of God, this is a true account of a real life situation. No fiction here. I pray that you will accept the truth of this story as you read it and that your doubts will turn to security in the knowledge that you can trust in God to take you to a place that Jesus has prepared for those who trust Him and believe.

Good answer!

Believe, yes! But, remember some of the lessons in the New Testament are parables -- not actual happenings. Jesus used these as a teaching tool. As do many good rabbis and preachers today. The tale of the rich man and the good samaritan are examples.

I believe in Heaven, I believe HELL is just being forever dead, not everlasting burning like some say.

Hey bluesmann and yo brotha, glad to see free thinkers. Have you 2 ever noticed that when you ask a question like this one, all the religious fanatics can do is quote a book? It's a book. Thats all it is. Pieces of paper with a back and a cover. to answer your question, NO, there is no proof and there will never be any proof. You know why? Because it's a myth. Thats all. There could possibly be life after death, but more than likely its not possible. Your thoughts are caused by your brain recieving functions, and when you die that no longer is possible, so you do the math. This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...

quote:

This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...

Show me proof that it doesn't exist.

Nash, let me explain something to you. Proof means that you've found something that exists. You prove that it exist to me. I would really like to hear this.... Come on, tell me... Prove it with proof...

You made the claim that the soul does not exist. I'm asking you to back it up. If you're so confident that there is no soul, then prove it to me.

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Nash, let me explain something to you. Proof means that you've found something that exists. You prove that it exist to me. I would really like to hear this.... Come on, tell me... Prove it with proof...

mack, it exists for me... I feel it every single day... My life would be total shambles if not for God. I believe, and I am elated that I believe. If you want proof, you have to have faith, and when that comes to you, there is NO mistaking it, it is there.

Ok I'll prove it... I'll go and get a soul and bring it to you. In a box... Oh wait, I can't because thay don't exist. Is that enough proof for you? Or better yet, you search this whole **** internet and post a picture of one for me... And I want bigfoots' autograph also while you are searching...

And Kindred Spirit, faith is in no way, shape, or form proof of anything......Sorry....

quote:

Ok I'll prove it... I'll go and get a soul and bring it to you. In a box... Oh wait, I can't because thay don't exist. Is that enough proof for you? Or better yet, you search this whole **** internet and post a picture of one for me... And I want bigfoots' autograph also while you are searching...

Put some dark matter in a box and show it to me. Maybe search the entire Internet for a picture of dark matter. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Science thinks it does. In other words, you have no proof to back up your claim that the soul does not exist, you simply have faith that it doesn't. Ironic, isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
And Kindred Spirit, faith is in no way, shape, or form proof of anything......Sorry....

Ya know, Mack... you are entitled to your opinions, BUT so am I. If you don't like my opinions, don't throw snide comments at my FAITH and my LOVE for God... accept me for who I am and respect me for who I am, and you will get the same respect back.

Which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer to this question,it is best to let everyone believe as they will and not try to shove your belief down their throat.

Snappy comeback... There are actual pictures of dark matter. look it up. Wheres that picture of just one of the 7 BILLION souls on this planet. I just want one.

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
And Kindred Spirit, faith is in no way, shape, or form proof of anything......Sorry....

Mack, put radiation in a box, let me SEE it, FEEL it, SMELL it... nope, no can do, only a certain monitor can pick that up.

Electricity.... put it in a box, JUST the electricity now, not wiring... let us touch it, feel it, SEE it... nope, you cannot do that unless the WIRES are there.

Put Natural Gas in a box, without the additives, and lets feel it... SEE it... smell it... NOTHING... only monitors can do that.

So you see, there are many things in this world that cannot be SEEN, cannot be FELT, cannot be smelled, but DOES exist.... especially God and faith in Him.

Kindred, I think we were thinking about the same thing at the same time.

Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.

quote:

Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Kindred, I think we were thinking about the same thing at the same time.

I think we do that a LOT, lol

You are missing the entire piont... There is proof those things exist... That was the whole point. Yes, you know about words that are of invisible things. Proven things. Prove a soul exist...

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
You are missing the entire piont... There is proof those things exist... That was the whole point. Yes, you know about words that are of invisible things. Proven things. Prove a soul exist...

Now YOU are missing the point!!! You told us we could not prove faith, sould, heaven and hell... even went so far as to tell us to SHOW you souls... Then when I asked you to show things, your cop-out is those are invisible and proven...... SO IS MY FAITH IN GOD!!! Invsibile to the world, but real to me, PROVEN SO MANY TIMES IN MY LIFE IT IS UNREAL.... My soul is right here with me, inside of me, until the day I die, then it is up to God what to do with it then... PROVEN BY ME!!

Ok kindred, jesus, this is stupid... I would love to release radiation in your home and you release your faith in mine and we shall see who dies and who still has no faith...

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Ok kindred, jesus, this is stupid... I would love to release radiation in your home and you release your faith in mine and we shall see who dies and who still has no faith...

If you have no faith what are you doing calling on Jesus to help you prove a point?

Don't see why you guys are entertaining this guy. He is just another person who comes on here and will say anything that will get a lot of people riled up. Might as well watch the Jerry Springer show.

quote:

Originally posted by Ubermensch:
Don't see why you guys are entertaining this guy. He is just another person who comes on here and will say anything that will get a lot of people riled up. Might as well watch the Jerry Springer show.

If I wanted to see my in-laws I'd just go visit them.

When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them. Making a statement and daring anyone to prove them wrong is a weak argument. No one can physically prove a spirit or soul exists or does not exist. Every culture, no matter how remote has the concept of a spirit. Science has yet to disprove it. So until then, you can't say for certain that there is no soul, you can only assume there isn't one. It takes faith to hang on to something that can't be proven, thus the irony.

Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"

I feel sorry for you
The Bible tells us there will be tribulations,troubles, trials and so forth here on earth. it goes all the way back to Adam,Eve and the garden of Eden.

quote:

Originally posted by ms_crone:
Faith is belief in things unseen; no proof is needed.

And why call say that we have been deceived? Personally, the thought of going through life thinking 'this is all there is' sounds rather bleak.

I wonder if Paris Hilton finds "all there is" rather bleak. There Might NOT be a heaven or hell, so I am going to live like there isn't. But, I am going to do everything I can to convince you there is a hell, and you will go to it if you interfere with my hedonism. To Clarify, The use of the church is to keep the empoverished satisfied with their lives, because they will be rewarded in heaven. And if they object, well the other place conviently awaits them. I want to quote a line from the most powerful short speech ever made. Thy Will be Done, Thy Kingdom come on EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
I realize that it is called the Lord's Prayer, but if you will check the context of it's presentation, Jesus said to the gathered multitude that they should pray this prayer.

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
Okay, then show pictures of Natural Gas, of Electricity, of radiation... show me those pictures.... you can't do it, because NO ONE can.

Actually Kindred you can show radiation on photo sensitive paper. It's called X Ray Photography. You can picture Electricity, in nature, with the naked eye, it's called Electricity, demonstrated by Ben Franklin in the 18th century. You can photograph natural gas by illuminating it with electromagnetic radiation of the right frequency.
You can also prove the existence of all those things by the effect of their presence, fire, incandescent Fillaments. Damage to living tissue.
On the other hand, NOT being able to photograph, see, smell, touch, feel, be touched by anything does not prove its non existance. I believe in the human soul. I recoginze the quality of souls in virtually every person I talk to or watch. I don't have proof that the soul is eternal, or even that it comes into existance at conception. I do believe that the soul develops over a lifetime, and that it needs care and protection.
Belief that it is eternal requires it to have qualities that I am unable to discover. Belief that the soul will be judged after it is released from the body is beyond my ability, but belief that it is constantly being judged by itself and others is provable. I judge My soul, and the soul of others, and I am reasonable sure that others Judge Mine as well.

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Bluesmann that is the exact reason I am Atheist.. If there was a God, why wouldn't he help the needy. What about Darfur? If he exist, why in the world would he just sit back and let this happen? Maybe time for a new God..... One that actually cares about the people he "created"

It always amazes me when people blame God for all the bad things that happen in the world. What I do know is that the soul does exist. Each human being is made up of body, soul, and mind. If we only had a mind and a body, where would the compassion come from to help others during tragedies such as Katrina. Without a soul we would have no emotions. We would be plant life. The proof that souls exist comes from my study of God's Word. I have learned that God created the universe, including Heaven and Hell and all the inhabitants therein. Some of those inhabitants are Angels. If Angels exist, then I have no reason to believe that the soul does not exist. I know that Angels exist because I have been personally affected by one or more of them. In 1974, while swimming in Lake Guntersville, I started to cramp up and was unable to swim. My buddies were on the shore, but thought I was joking about not being able to swim back to shore. I went under once, twice, then the third time. As I prepared myself to die, I was suddenly snatched from the water by the strong hand of a fisherman hanging to the side of a boat. The boat dragged me to bank about a 100 yards from my friends. When they reached me and I explained to them about my near death experience and the subsequent rescue, they told me there was no boat in sight. It would seem that those responsible would have stayed around to accept a little praise from myself and the others, but they were no longer there. I've never been able to explain those events, except to say that it was a miracle performed by a God who cares for those He created. Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by mackisfor420:
Hey bluesmann and yo brotha, glad to see free thinkers. Have you 2 ever noticed that when you ask a question like this one, all the religious fanatics can do is quote a book? It's a book. Thats all it is. Pieces of paper with a back and a cover. to answer your question, NO, there is no proof and there will never be any proof. You know why? Because it's a myth. Thats all. There could possibly be life after death, but more than likely its not possible. Your thoughts are caused by your brain recieving functions, and when you die that no longer is possible, so you do the math. This "soul" so many spaek of, its a joke. No doctor has ever seen one even with every piece of technology available. You know why? It doesn't exist...

Religious fanatic = Anti-religion fanatic